John Conyers : Tea Whistle on Democracy Now

[RainDog]

I just watched Ron Suskind's 2nd part interview with Amy Goodman. John Conyers was also "there" via phone.

Over the last 8 years I have seen Conyers promise this or that... investigate this or that.. and nothing ever happens.

When I hear Conyers speak at these hearings, he says a lot of words without saying anything that isn't already known.

On Democracy Now he refused to discuss Iran-Contra. He said it's history and his current "investigation" is about what's going on right now. Well, Conyers, if you don't know or don't want to admit that these same assholes in power right now are the same ones involved in Iran-Contra, then why should anyone care what you do? All you do is provide a "vent."

Conyers is a tea-whistle.

He lets Americans who have HAD IT with this govt. let off steam. He makes noises but does nothing himself. Over and over and over again.

Why should any of us in this nation believe that anyone in the govt, democrat or republican, is not utterly and totally corrupt and is a part of the problem?

If Bush were a democrat doing all this shit, believe me, the Republicans would be on him 24/7. He would have already been impeached. He would already be facing criminal charges upon the end of his term.

What reason do any of us have anymore to think that our govt works?

What reason do any of us have to continue to trust any elected official? To think that laws matter? To think that the law is fairly applied, no matter what one's status or bank account?

I'm tired of demanding action and getting a tea whistle instead.

[Junkdrawer]

1. I heard him this morning. He was more than a tad defensive....n/t

[mike_c]

2. I was really disappointed with Conyers in that interview....

He said absolutely NOTHING of substance, just blew a lot of hot air, mostly about himself. Very disappointing.

[RainDog]

3. I was embarrassed.

Suskind is a republican, at least a former one, and he can say things of greater substance than Conyers?

shameful.

This isn't the first time he's been like this, that I've seen. I watched him on c-span on a previous hearing and I just had to turn off the tv b/c he made me want to scream.

A lot of hot air.

[magellan]

4. Tea whistle is exactly right

I figured this out about him a while ago. It was a very disappointing realization, especially remembering how vigorous and thorough he was with the basement hearings and election fraud. But since 2006 he's become part of the larger problem of inaction by the Dems. I've had it with most of them and their desire to downplay BushCo's crimes by ascribing calls for impeachment to simple dislike of Bush**. They sound like Republicans.

[RainDog]

5. I think this govt is broken

And Suskind is right. We HAVE TO have some justice after these 8 years or we will continue to decline as a nation with the power to influence the world. And I mean justice, not window dressing.

This ENTIRE govt has so damaged the constitution by their actions or lack of that I don't understand why their deeds do not make them all treasonous bastards.

[magellan]

7. It's completely broken

And most of them ARE guilty, if not of treason then at least of failing to uphold their oaths of office, which is why nothing substantive will be done about it. If most of the cops are corrupt....

Remember, what we know is just a small fraction of the larger truths. Imagine what we DON'T know.

[MadrasT]

11. "Remember, what we know is just a small fraction of the larger truths. Imagine what we DON'T know."

My thoughts exactly. We've only seen the tip of the corrupt-as-hell iceberg.

[magellan]

13. I hate to dilute serious discussion like this with OT

...but I've been wanting to tell you how much I like your sig line pic. It reminds me of a cartoon I used to have at work of a frazzled looking cat with its hair on end and the caption "I've got one nerve left and you're getting on it!"

[libnnc]

6. K&R

[lonestarnot]

8. tea whistle yes.

[Matariki]

9. Makes you wonder - do the Democrats in office not have the power or the will?

With Conyers, I suspect he it's more a question of power. He doesn't have the backing he needs to make good on any threats. It must be frustrating.

And the Republicans could be all over a person 24/7 because they have more control of the media.

So, what can we do about it?

[RainDog]

10. there is a media for those not beholden to the corporations

the internet may not be available to everyone, but most ppl who follow politics do so via the internet, not just tv.

all these politicians would have to do is call for a sit down strike by citizens who want the justice dept. to actually give a shit about justice, for instance, and there would be hundreds of thousands there.

to allow an org. that is far to the left of most all americans to lead protests is ridiculous. I was in Washington to march, yes, that march that didn't happen, and the far left was not what it was about for most ppl.

so, what should we have done or do? Maybe we need to protest outside the Fox News and CNN headquarters. Have signs for a YouTube video or two or three that have been created by ppl who know what they're doing to call others to action.

A "movement" needs a leader with the authority to take that first stand. A leader that has a niche in the lives of avg. Americans, not one that uses a protest against the war to talk about Mumia etc. or one whose views do not have some application w/i "mainstream" America. that's simply the truth.

That's what inspired me about Obama. When I heard him speak and he swore he was going to uphold the constitution, then he caved on FISA... well, just seems like politics as usual. Same of course and absolutely with Hillary.

I cannot fucking believe that the attn. gen of this nation can still stay in office after he says that "some crimes are more criminal than others." What he really said was... I'm not going to prosecute these ppl b/c they're on "my side." And his side is NOT the side of democracy.

So how do you get rid of a worthless piece of shit like that?

[RainDog]

12. or rather - we have to be willing to be "uncomfortable" to defend our rights

and to defend the constitution.

Like a general strike. Like getting arrested for peaceable assembly, like the civil rights protestors in the 1960s. They never resisted arrest at the lunch counter sit downs. When one person was taken away, another was waiting to sit in his/her place.

are you willing to do something that might make your life less easy? if not, then no, you won't have a democracy, ever.

[fla nocount]

25. Perhaps the Democrats dictate policy to the Republicans,

perhaps they always have and the dichotomy of us vs. them is merely an illusion foisted upon the herd, an illusion that we have a choice between what, two? In most aspects of life the choices are endless. In American politics we choose between frick and frack, doolittle and dooless.

More Cowbell.

[Popol Vuh]

14. "What reason do any of us have anymore to think that our govt works? "

I have every reason in the world to believe our government works just fine. Its working better than any other government on the planet. That is if you're amongst the corporate elite and the military industrial complex.

[Javaman]

15. And this is why the "hearings" that we all have been witness to

have been nothing more that brain damaged kabuki theater.

the feigned indignation and over emphasis on finger waging was the big give away.

every time I hear another one of these fucking idiots* getting away with yet another crime, my heart aches for our nation.

the bottom line is this: they don't give a damn, if they actually did, they would all be exposed for the enablers and collaborators that they are.

They don't hold anyone accountable because if they did, they would have to look in the mirror.

nothing, NOTHING is going to happen.

And so it goes...

[nashville_brook]

16. i'm so glad you posted on this -- i heard it and thought the same thing. k/r

[wildbilln864]

17. I completely agree RainDog....

k&r'd :kick:

[EFerrari]

18. We are no longer a nation of laws.

I never thought I'd see the day when the worse we thought didn't actually measure up to how bad things really are. :(

[Piewhacket]

19. What Conyers can do....

Conyers has the power:

0. as a US citizen, to speak and write in advocacy of issues.
1. as a US citizen, to vote in US elections.
2. as a member of the US House of Representative, to cast a vote on the floor of the house.
3. as chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, and with the concurrence of a majority on
the committee, to set committee agenda, to hold hearings, and to cast a vote
recommending or not recommending action by the House.

He is influential because he is respected. He is respected by both sides because he
is principled and understands PERFECTLY and adheres to the limits of his power.
He is modest and courteous in manner, his advocacy is carefully considered and framed.
Because of these attributes he cannot be dismissed by opponents, he must be endured.

Some who are rabid for some eye-gouging (which would include me), have suggested Conyers
is not doing enough. Yet I cannot disagree with that more. What is it you want him to do,
waterboard the bastards? Sure, but then what? The AG won't arrest or prosecute!
For now there are limits. Learn them. Use them. As Conyers is doing.

For in my view and opinion, and I think there is no doubt of it, Conyers, acting within
the limits of his power, primarily by hearings, IS KICKING THE LIVING ^%$#&&^% out of
the assholes. That's what I see. Eye-gouging isn't the only way to inflict pain,
wrestling fans, in the WWW of politics there is 'political pain'! That is what Conyers
is expertly inflicting.

I'm not saying people don't have a right to yell for blood, I merely remind my bloodthirsty
associates that the bloodlust should be directed at the opposition, not at ourselves.

[RainDog]

22. okay. so you're saying the govt is broken

because, even as a member of the legislature, Conyers has no recourse to, say, go to a state attn general instead and place a warrant for the arrest of Karl Rove? To seek another outlet? To go on TV and say, EVERY SINGLE DAY, does Karl Rove think laws don't apply to him? (not just Conyers, but a diff. Democrat each night.)

No one can arrest Karl Rove because???? You are saying there is NO ONE in this nation who can stop the fascists now. So we're all supposed to applaud the Democrats' efforts? (what efforts, exactly?)

If you didn't see the Democracy Now! episode, you should go look at it. If working within the power structure means sheltering international war criminals (Iran-Contra) then that's another sign, to me, that this govt. is broken. As I said before, I've watched him on c-span and, frankly, I think he did more harm than good.

I'm not rabid for eye-gouging. I have seen what these criminals have done and I have seen the democrats fail to explain to the electorate why they do not do anything (the majority needed that includes republicans... so, why don't they then ask EVERY REPUBLICAN why they are willing to excuse criminal acts if they're done by a republican, even, apparently, blow jobs, but anything done by a democrat is grounds for a hissy fit?

I understand the issue of votes. However, when Dirk Durbin, for example, called this govt. what it is (analogy to Nazis) he had to apologize??? He should have taken the Cheney route and told Cheney/Bush to go fuck themselves.

When you say we should direct the ire at our opposition, well... who is the opposition, exactly, when Pelosi, for instance, refused to honor the demand to hold impeachment hearings? I am sick of apologists for these democrats. As Conyers admitted, they didn't even read the Patriot Act and other bills the repukes rammed thru the legislature. They can't call the republicans on this? Why can't get media coverage for this? I don't think they're trying hard enough.

They need to learn how to work the media via the bullshit media that, for instance, gets all members of Congress on the Capitol steps saying the pledge of allegiance because of some stupid move by a republican.

If this nation is such that the MAJORITY who want better govt. cannot have it, then I think it's time to create "two Americas," as one democrat said... it already exists for the rich v. the poor. I want a divorce from the republicans. Permanent separation. Their idea of govt and mine are so irreconcilable that this doesn't work for me and many, many others and I don't want them to have any say over my nation or my life.

[Piewhacket]

28. Not saying its broke, just saying...

... we have to take back the country from a determined gang of criminals,
and it ain't so easy.

Thanks for comments by Raindog, sfexpat2000, mmonk, this will provide
a general reply.

John W. Dean, former counsel to President Nixon, has written an article
explaining Contempt of Congress. http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070713.html
Statutory contempt proceedings (Dean explains)must be voted on by the full house.
Then it is referred to the AG for prosecution (referral to a grand jury).

As I understand it, Statutory contempt provides up to one year
imprisonment while for inherent contempt may only apply
during the session.

There are only a few months left in the House term. Impeachment cannot
succeed, the AG has demonstrated that he is going to dick around about
any referral, there is an important presidential election in progress,
and winning the next set of elections is the critical focus of the
democratic party. So what is it you want them to do again?

After elections, emphasis will shift to consolidation of power by democrats,
some infighting for control of the new agenda, then turning to FIXING the
catastrophe left by repuks criminal enterprise. During the post election
period tempers will cool but SOME accountability can be pursued (which
does not interfere with critical agendas).

THAT DOESN'T MEAN FOLKS SHOULD NOT SCREAM FOR ACCOUNTABILITY, for outrages done.
But realistically this situation took a long time to f* up, and it will
take a long time to unf* it.

[EFerrari]

24. Conyers is not doing enough. You don't have to be blood thirsty

to know that, you merely have to be reasonably aware of the many crimes of the Bush White House.

And Mr. Conyers is not inflicting anything on anyone. He's running out the clock as he has been instructed to do.

[mmonk]

26. Words without action are worthless. He is feakin Chair

of the judiciary for crying out loud. I remember people saying we had to vote in the bush Democrats because he would be chair and finally justice would reign. What a crock of doo.

[Riddler]

20. In the dictionary of over-used cliches, Conyers picture appears next

"all bark and no bite"

[libnnc]

21. watching this right now

really sad

Why did he even agree to be on the program if he had nothing to add to the discussion?

[Solly Mack]

23. That's why I'm fond of saying I don't have any pom-poms

Not cheering a tea whistle

[Senator]

27. Chairman Chickenheart Needs To Pass The Gavel To Mr. Wexler

If he's not going to lead, he should just step back and follow.

It's sad that both the first woman Speaker and first minority Judiciary Chair will end up as historic failures. And as accessories after-the-fact to torture and war crimes. The clock is ticking on the opportunity to redeem themselves.

But that doesn't mean we can't achieve impeachment in spite of them. Target Nadler. Target Obama.

Just keep talking impeachment to anyone you can -- as loudly as you can.

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