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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:29 PM
Original message
Gerald Ford: Warren Commission skeptics "no problem"
The good gnostic at DailyKos asks a great question that gets to the heart of the problem that faces We the People:



What did Gerald Ford mean when he told J Edgar Hoover that the Warren Commission members who disagreed with the lone gunman conclusion were "no problem"?



Gerald Ford: Warren Commission skeptics "no problem"

by a gnostic
Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:06:56 PM PDT

The Washington Post reports that, per newly declassified documents, Gerald Ford was secretly forwarding information to the FBI about the Warren Commission inquiry into John F. Kennedy's assassination and that Ford, then a congressman, told the FBI that skeptical members of the Warren Commission posed "no problem" to ____ (fill in the blank), that three members "failed to understand" the bullet trajectory, and that two members were skeptical that the shots came from the Texas Book Repository.



a gnostic's diary :: ::

Ford Told FBI of Skeptics on Warren Commission

A December 1963 memo recounts that Ford, then a Republican congressman from Michigan, told FBI Assistant Director Cartha D. "Deke" DeLoach that two members of the seven-person commission remained unconvinced that Kennedy had been shot from the sixth-floor window of the Texas Book Depository. In addition, three commission members "failed to understand" the trajectory of the slugs, Ford said.

Ford told DeLoach that commission discussions would continue and reassured him that those minority points of view on the commission "of course would represent no problem," one internal FBI memo shows. The memo does not name the members involved and does not elaborate on what Ford meant by "no problem."



My bold.

No problem to whom?

Inquiring minds want to know...



Regular minds should want to know, too...



Here's the original story from the AP:



Ford told FBI about panels doubts on JFK murder

Former President Ford confided to FBI about panel's doubts over JFK assassination


MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN
AP News
Aug 09, 2008 09:19 EST

Former President Ford secretly advised the FBI that two of his fellow members on the Warren Commission doubted the FBI's conclusion that John F. Kennedy was shot from the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository in Dallas, according to newly released records from Ford's FBI files.

SNIP...

A newly released memorandum provides more details about Ford's role as the FBI's informant. DeLoach wrote on Dec. 17, 1963, to outline what Ford told him in the congressman's office about the commission meeting the day before.

"Two members of the commission brought up the fact that they still were not convinced that the President had been shot from the sixth floor window of the Texas Book Depository," DeLoach wrote. "These members failed to understand the trajectory of the slugs that killed the President. He stated he felt this point would be discussed further but, of course, would represent no problem."

There was no explanation of what Ford meant by "no problem."

Warren Commission records released in 1997 revealed that in the final report Ford changed the staff's original description of one of Kennedy's wounds. Ford said then he only made the description more precise. Skeptics said Ford's wording falsely made the wound seem higher on the body to make the panel's conclusion that one bullet hit both Kennedy and Texas Gov. John Connally more plausible.

CONTINUED...

Source: AP News

http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=288461



First off: I admire and respect Gerald R Ford as an American. He was a true hero of the United States Navy in World War II, helping save an aircraft carrier.

That said, as the FBI's "man" on the Warren Commission, Ford was in a position to, literally, re-write history. In just one instance, Ford moved the location of the bullet holes in President Kennedy's suit jacket to make the magic bullet theory more plausible.

This is thanks to DUer Debra Conway and her colleagues at JFK Lancer:



Gerald Ford's Terrible Fiction

Moving the Back Wound and the Single Bullet Theory


Read Gerald Ford's correction to the Warren Commission Report Draft:

page 1 page 2

The initial draft of the report stated:
"A bullet had entered his back at a point slightly above the shoulder to the right of the spine."

Ford wanted it to read:
"A bullet had entered the back of his neck slightly to the right of the spine."

Autopsy Face Sheet
Drawing showing area of back wound

JFK assassination eye-witnesses, including the observations of at least one Secret Service man in Dealey Plaza and several FBI agents present at the Bethesda autopsy, placed the president's back wound exactly where the mute testimony of the president's jacket and shirt showed where the wound was: six inches below the collar line.

CONTINUED w DOCUMENTS, EVIDENCE, LINKS...

http://jfklancer.com/Ford-Rankin.html



Thanks for the heads up, gnostic!

I want to know, too.



Poppy Bush brought up JFK Assassination and ''Conspiracy Theorists'' at Ford Funeral

The answer will help us rid ourselves of our current problem: a tyrannical gangster government led by traitors.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. I remember GHW Bush's comments at Ford's funeral
Will we ever really know his role in JFKs assassination
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Better we ask him than his Dim Son.
Otherwise, Cheney will be speechifying, but not testifying under oath, that good ol' Poppy always admired President Kennedy.

Neither one has a record for telling the truth. They both invoke "National Security" when it comes to the Plame Affair and so much more -- from the Enron Energy Policy meetings to the orders for sexed-up intel tying Iraq to 9-11.

JFK warned us about such men:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkryNyxlubY
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. They are all evil men
Thanks for the link
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I think the public is amazingly aware of most of the JFK info . . .
and that will encompass Bush, Sr ---

It's pretty much all laid out now for anyone interested ---

Not every detail is known --- but most of it ---


There are some who say that the evening of the assassination many knew who had

done it and most of the story ---

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. You mean the informed public
Most people are clueless on the subject.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Gaeton Fonzi, investigator for the House Select Comm on Assassinations, found evidence of conspiracy
Fonzi found the President's clothing to be critical evidence of conspiracy.

Wish that more people were aware of his work for the Congress' investigation of the assassination of President Kennedy in the mid-1970s.

For instance, one big thing most people I've spoken with on the subject have no idea
the guy who came up with the "magic bullet theory"
is now a sitting Senator from Pennsylvania.



Arlen Specter attempting to demonstrate the possibility of the single bullet theory.



Reply From a Conspiracy Believer

by Gaeton Fonzi

EXCERPT...

However, actual photographs of Kennedys jacket and shirt which were not in the Warren Commission Report but released as supplemental evidence by the FBI indicate exactly where the bullet entered his back. The holes in both the jacket and shirt were almost six inches from the top of the collars, and well below the so-called exit wound in Kennedys throat.

Specter attempted to explain this discrepancy by pointing out that Kennedy was waving to the crowd when he was hit and that gesture led both the jacket and shirt to ride up his back and double over. I pointed out that both Kennedys jacket and shirt were tailored tightly and, if they both became rolled up by his waving, wouldnt they each have two bullet holes in them?

At that point, Specter became uncharacteristically nervous and began to stammer a bit. Suddenly he jumped from his chair behind his desk and quickly came behind me, grabbed my arm and began waving it. See, he said, see how your jacket rides up? See... well, it doesnt do it much in your case but it normally it does.

Was Specter saying there was no inconsistency between the Commissions location of the wound and the holes in the clothing?

Specters exact response, including his hesitancies, as recorded: No, not at all. That gave us a lot of concern. First time we lined up the shirt...after all, we lined up the shirt....and the hole in the shirt is right about, right about the knot of the tie, came right about here in a slit in the front....

But, I asked, where in the back did it hit Kennedy?

Well, the back hole, when the shirt is laid down, comes....aah....well, I forget exactly where it came, but it certainly wasnt higher, enough higher to...aah....understand the....aah....the angle of decline which....

Was it lower? Was it lower in the slit in the front?

Well, I think that....that if you took the shirt without allowing for its being pulled up, that it would either have been in line or somewhat lower.

Somewhat lower?

Perhaps. I....I dont want to say because I dont really remember....

Dont really remember? The man who was responsible for developing the theory that would keep the whole Warren Commission Report afloat says in 1966, about crucial evidence relating to that theory, I dont really remember? I couldnt believe I was listening to the bumbling, evasive efforts of a former member of the Yale Debating Team. What Specter was admitting was that the Single Bullet Theory was not really even a probability, it was a possibility!

CONTINUED...

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Essay_-_Reply...



Interesting times.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I always read your threads on the subject
Interesting times indeed.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. .....but Fonzi isn't making clear that the rear wound is in JFK's right shoulder . . .!!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Great point, defendandprotect.
What's truly crazy theorizing is believing that the magic bullet could make all those mid-course corrections to emerge relatively unscathed on a hospital gurney that wasn't even used to transport either President Kennedy or Gov. Connally.

Here's that magic bullet, according to the Warren Commission:



Those who believe that this thing could've done all that are the ones engaging in wild speculation, IMO.



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Granted I'm always amazed at how superficial proclaimed "interest" in any subject .....
subject can be . . .

You may be right --- ???

Meanwhile, the polls seem to indicate that a majority of Americans do not believe the
Warren Report ---

And, basically, the evidence is quite simple against the WCR given the witnessing of the
Parkland Doctors who have described the wounds to us --- and also as described by Jackie
Kennedy and the agent who jumped on the back of the car to assist her.

The evidence against the "Magic Bullet" is also immediate when the actual report of the
wounds is understood.

As for "who" . . . ? Immediate suspicions were of LBJ and he was certainly involved --
this couldn't have gone forward without their having a reliable president with them --
I don't think that we quite understood corporatism then, but many did understand the link
to the oil industry and I think today Americans well understand it. Additionally, many
of these men -- Nixon, LBJ, Murchinson --- were all linked to Mafia because they used them
as the CIA did. Jack Ruby was working for Nixon at the time of the UHAC hearings.
And, the men who did the dirty work came out of the woodwork during Watergate.

Naturally, there are deeper meanings to all this --- many more names, many specifics which
are known; many still not.

I think Madelaine Brown, LBJ's mistress -- and McClellan, his attorney -- have given us
great insights into what has actually gone on the world --
Fletcher Prouty came a little after most of the investigators, but I think he contributed
greatly to our knowledge.
Fantastic work by Mark Lane --- immediately --
Harrison Livinston - High Treason I and II --
and Jim Marrs -- Crossfire

Too often we talk about a coup on JFK where actually it was a coup on the US government.


:)
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. kick
:kick:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The physical evidence is startling.


People who support the magic bullet theory say JFK's jacket can be seen bunched up here.



The jacket -- but not the shirt -- possibly can be bunched up -- it looks like it was photoshopped, as there are so few shades of grey in the bunched up area. Howerver, there is nowhere near enough to change the location of the back wound to his neck.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Actually the wound was in JFK's right shoulder . . . .
Edited on Sun Aug-10-08 06:12 PM by defendandprotect
AND . . . had no outlet ---

The wound in JFK's throat was also a wound of ENTRANCE and had NO outlet ---


So you can see how much work had to be done to confuse the public and produce

the lie of the "magic bullet" ---

Ford gave a great deal of help to that lie ---

Ford was at the least a co-conspirator in the coup on our government/JFK ---

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Physical Evidence of Conspiracy in the JFK Assassination
Corporate McPravda has worked overtime to perpetrate and perpetuate the lone nut story.



PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF CONSPIRACY IN THE JFK ASSASSINATION

Michael T. Griffith
2002 @All Rights Reserved

EXCERPT...

No matter how far forward Kennedy would have leaned, and no matter how far forward he would have tilted his head, the trajectory through the neck would have been slightly upward, since the back wound was below the throat wound.

SOURCE: http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/physical.htm



Few are those who've taken the time to learn.

Thank you for giving a damn, defendandprotect.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Right . . . rear wound was in the right shoulder at 45 degree DOWNWARD ANGLE -- !!!
Edited on Sun Aug-10-08 09:49 PM by defendandprotect
and I've repeated that for the benefit of anyone here reading just the "subject" ---

and thank you for your kind comments ---
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GreatCaesarsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. Mark Lane had this info on Ford in 1991 "Plausible Denial"
pg 43 footnote 3

"After many years in the House as a representative from Michigan, Gerald Ford had distinguished himself with but one piece of legislation, he had led the effort to impeach Earl Warren.

...

"An internal FBI memodated December 17, 1963, details the items Ford passed to Cartha D. DeLoach, then the assistant to the FBI dirrector. Ford did not disclose to the other six members of the Warren Commission his course of improper and illegal conduct.

...

"Ford, with the approval of Hoover, was given 'an FBI agent briefcase containing a lock' so taht he could carry top-secret Warren Commission documents with him on a ski trip."


-----

this footnote is about a page of small type and too much to type out here.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Mark Lane is a great American.
Thanks for the heads-up, GreatCaesarsGhost! Here's a bit more on the note:



Plausible Denial

by Mark Lane

EXCERPT...

After many years in the House as a representative from Michigan, Gerald Ford had distinguished himself with but one piece of proposed legislation: he had led the effort to impeach Earl Warren. As a member of the Warren Commission, he betrayed the trust invested in him and became the FBIs agent there.

Years after the Warren Report was issued and the commission disbanded, the Freedom of Information Act was amended to make it possible to secure documents that had previously been inaccessible. With the assistance of the American Civil Liberties Union and Morton Halperin, former deputy assistant secretary fo defense, and the Center for National Security Studies, I brought various actions to secure documents from the intelligence agencies.

FBI documents not previously available revealed an intimate and furive relationship between Ford and the FBI. The documents show Ford fed top-secret information to the FBI while he was a member of the Warren Commission.

An internal FBI memo dated December 17, 1963, details the times Ford passed to Cartha D. DeLoach, then the assistant to the FBI director. Ford did not disclose to the other six members of the Warren Commission his course of improper and illegal conduct.

DeLoach reported that Ford agreed to continue to betray his colleagues on the commission. Ford said, DeLoach reported, I should call him any time his assistance was needed.

Ford, with the approval of Hoover, was given an FBI agent briefcase containing a loc so that he could carry top-secret Warren Commission documents with him on a skiing trip.

From his vacation chalet, Ford told the FBI officials which Commission members required additional FBI efforts n order to bring them into line with the FBI view of the assassination. He reported to DeLoach that two commission members said they had serious doubts the president had been shot from the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository. Ford predicted the two dissenters could be brought to the FBI view.

Ford reported to DeLoach that at a top-secret meeting of the commission held on December 16, 1963 the commissions general counsel, J.Lee Rankin, had been empowered to retain to so-called technicians. The two who were under consideration were Francis W.H. Adams, a former New York City police commissioner, and Albert E. Jenner, Jr., a Chicago lawyer. Ford, the documents disclose, could only remember the last names of the two men. The FBI then began an investigation to determine who Adams and Jenner were. DeLoach, who was the number three man in the FBI, ranking just uner Hoover and his friende Clyde Tolson, reported, I told Congressman Ford in strict confidence that apparently Chief Justice Warren was quite close to Drew Pearson (a leading syndicated columnist) and obviously used Pearson from time to time to get his thoughts across as the percentage of the facts in the articles that were absolutely false. (sic)

CONTINUED

Note p 43-44

SOURCE: Plausible Denial: Was the CIA Involved in the Assassination of JFK? By Mark Lane, 1991, Thunders Mouth Press, New York.



Sorry this took so long. I had to rerpimer the Jeep...
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. What did Poppy Bush know about JFK's murder and when did he know it?
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. According to a deathbed tape E Howard Hunt made (which I heard)
LBJ was behind the assassination. Don't know about GHWB, though.


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. It seems pretty clear that Poppy was CIA during that time and working
Edited on Sun Aug-10-08 09:56 PM by defendandprotect
with Cubans in Miami --- and his oil company - Zapata -- was a front for the CIA ---

Three of the supply ships in the Bay of Pigs Operation were the "Barbara Jean" --

the "Zapata" --- and "The Houston" --- all connected to Poppy Bush.

I don't recall his being mentioned by Madelaine Brown -- See YouTube interview ---

as being present at the Murchinson meeting the night before the assassination ---

but the full list of names is available on that tape.

But many think that there is a quite good picture of Poppy Bush in Dealey Plaza
on 11/22/63.


Keep in mind also that the Democratic Platform which JFK ran on called for NATIONALIZING
our oil industry --- !!!

And that JFK was looking to deep six the "oil depletion allowances" ---

Obviously, none of these people wanted a repeat of the FDR agenda ---

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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. Poppy shows signs of the "emotional lability" that Churchill
exhibited in his later years. In Poppy's case, he's letting things slip, at the least appropriate moments.

Poor Jackie. She was just a girl, really, when it all came down.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
22. kick


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