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If you are angry at John Edwards You must be angry at Elizabeth, too:

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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:11 PM
Original message
If you are angry at John Edwards You must be angry at Elizabeth, too:
She kept her silence for almost two years while campaigning for him like there was nothing wrong, like it had never happened and like they were the Mayberry RFD couple everyone wanted them to be.

They BOTH painted this deceptive picture, and she MUST share the blame for it.

Flame away!!
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yep
But like Hillary, the two women are the ones in grace, keeping their families together and tolerating the stupidity of their men. Long may they suffer, I guess. I'd kick the bastards out.



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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
109. I'm mystified. I'm mystified that she would be a part of something
like this in a 24/7 news cycle that LOVES this sort of thing. Mystified is all.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm one that believes that it takes trwo
But I'm not angry with either. It's none of my business and if they've moved on and moved forward, tehn they'll both become better people for it.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am only going to post once on this subject.
The matter of Edwards' affair is both public and private. Private, because, at the end of the day, it is really Elizabeth and John's marriage. Public, for me, only because he made so many hypocritical comments with regard to Bill Clinton.

*Disclaimer* I am not enamored of the Clintons, this is just my two cents.
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. I'd rate it as at least twenty cents' worth, MrsGrumpy.
You said it exactly right.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
45. Yes.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
61. How enlightened you are.
Blame the sick woman who worked her ass off for his campaign while battling cancer and taking care of HIS children while he fucked around.

Nice.

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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #61
93. I sincerely hope you posted this in the wrong place.
If not, then I hope you reread my post. The OP is blaming Elizabeth. Calm down.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #93
96. I was talking to the op
You ARE enlightened!
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
70. Hello, MrsGrumpy!

I thought you had gone away.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm angry at idiots that want to make something out of a private matter.
If more people accepted the fact that it is NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS, maybe this country would be better off. I'm sick and tired of the Morality Police types.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Absolutely. People think indignation makes them more moral.
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. It's not indignation -- it's ANGER at being player for a sucker
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. The REPS will be the ones expressing 'moral indignation'. nt
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
42. Why? How?
What promises did JE renege on that affected you - personally - that makes you feel you were "played like a sucker?"

BTW, that was a rhetorical question because the answer is none.

He owes you nothing and if you feel "played" it's because you engage in delusions.
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #42
97. It's not a matter of breaking promises.
Edited on Sat Aug-09-08 12:40 PM by charlyvi
I still think his agenda is best for our country.

But he asked for my support and my money knowing this time bomb was waiting to explode, effectively ending any chance of being elected. I gave him my money and my support, not knowing this same fact.

He campaigned on ending bush policies, knowing his conduct, when exposed, would extend bush policies another four years had he won the nomination. It was breathtakingly reckless for him to run for office, with everything at stake, knowing this would sink his candidacy like a stone. In this day and age, it always comes out. He knew this.

So, yes, I feel like a "sucker", because I was his supporter and acted in good faith to get him nominated. But I didn't know what he knew--that all the good faith and support in the world would be olbliterated by the front page of the National Enquirer should we have succeeded.

You may not agree with this point, but it is a valid one. We have a right to be angry.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Good one, cliffordu! I'm stealing that statement, if you don't mind. nt
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Fine wit' me!!
:hi:
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. A lot of people here think a lack of indignation..
Edited on Fri Aug-08-08 10:41 PM by girl gone mad
somehow makes them more moral.

I think we have something to be indignant about. Of course, y'all can keep changing the subject to sex and puritanism, but that's not really what matters. This is about a man putting the future of our party and our country on the line because of a personal sense of entitlement, using political funds to pay off a girlfriend and the possible blackmail of a presidential candidate.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
39. I'm not indignant. I'm hurt and disappointed.
I'm hurt at the deception.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Funny, because John Edwards was one of those Morality-Police types when it came to Bill Clinton.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
40. Yep.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
49. It's not the morality, it's the hypocrisy, stupid...
To borrow from a famous line. Read up on what Edwards had to say about Bill Clinton. FWIW, I am an Edwards supporter.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #49
99. to be fair, though,
there was a considerable time lag between his criticism and his actions (unless you believe that this is only one of many affairs). There are a lot of people who are critical before they have been put in the same position as the person being criticized, then do exactly what they are so critical of. According to JRE, he claimed he began feeling as though he could do anything, was narcissistic, once he was a candidate, then VP nominee, etc., since he was surrounded by all these supportive people. I suspect that is true. If it is, he ought to be able to imagine how much more heady the experience is when you actually are President, and have access to many people, and are successful as Pres., and powerful and attractive.

He owes Bill and Hillary Clinton the deepest of apologies.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
72. Indeed!
:applause:
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
80. Duping millions of people into supporting them is not a private matter. nt
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #80
122. So, You Only Liked Him Because You Thought He Was Faithful to His Wife?
I guess now he's no longer someone you'd want to have a beer with?

You can blast these asshats (read: ALL politicians, democrat and republican, male and female) for being hypocrites and liars (which they ALL are), but to lose faith in one because he cheated on his wife? There are a lot more important things to worry about than who a politician is sleeping with.

There's a certain type of arrogance inherent in anyone who runs for public office, and this arrogance often manifests itself in a compulsion to fuck around. If people find this morally reprehensible, too bad. An elected official does not owe you fidelity to his/her spouse. They only owe their spouse that, unless the spouse agrees otherwise. And if people are using fidelity as a measure of competence, that's idiotic.

GET OVER SEX, America. Your puerile obsession with who sleeps with who is one of the big factors preventing you from putting your house in order.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #122
125. Well said.
I'm really having a hard time understanding all this indignation from people who claim to be "live and let live" progressives.

It really is like Edwards "owed" his marital fidelity to them personally.

And I totally agree about the character of a typical political candidate. The only ones who are successful are the "Type A" go-getters and risk-takers. And those same people are the ones MOST LIKELY to engage in this behavior.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. To an extent, I agree. They're smart enough to realize that this scandal would effectively
Edited on Fri Aug-08-08 10:17 PM by Occam Bandage
end his Presidential campaign; it's a matter of sex, lies, and corrupt cronyism (the first shouldn't matter, but encourages media attention; the second two certainly matter) They're also smart enough to know that these things are more a matter of "when" than "if" when it comes to going public.

And they decided to go ahead with the run anyway, despite knowing that it might very well lead to a Republican White House. The fact that she supposedly knew about it does indeed diminish my once-quite-high respect for her. (Yes, I'm aware she's a classy woman and doesn't need it.)
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
62. Now that I think about it, I am coming to your point of view re Elizabeth.
She didn't think this thing through. I'm wondering if they had anyone to whom they could turn for counsel at the time John confessed to her. There should have been someone who could walk through the possible outcomes for them, if they were in denial about the reality of the situation. It really was at basis a reckless thing they did. I can only surmise that they were "in a bubble" with advisors who told them what they wanted to hear and suspending disbelief about the probable consequences...

Incredible, isn't it?
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. .
Edited on Fri Aug-08-08 10:16 PM by Lost-in-FL
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. I believe you are correct. nt
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. BULLFUCKINGSHIT. Not her job to out him. He wasn't man enough to come clean before he was caught.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. You might want to read what SHE has to say about it. I mean before you
jump any further into your conclusion than you already have.

They discussed it and kept it private.

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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
69. It was her job to point out to him in the beginning, that should he be nominated,
the scandal would end his Presidential campaign, thereby giving us 4 more years of bush. I like her a great deal, but she should have pointed this out to him. Perhaps she did, I don't know, but if she didn't it was reckless on her part. If she did, and he ran anyway, it was more than reckless on his part. And I was his supporter--donated 200 bucks to him.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. So they're a normal American family.
Happens in my neighborhood all the time, well not the campaigning part, but the acting like Mayberry.

Please give this family some privacy. I'm sure they know what they did probably wasn't in the best interest of the party but they might have done what they did in order to try and heal. Fact is, we don't know why they did what they did. Maybe they will fill us in one day.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. I'd like to see them left alone, too. They are fine, decent people who, above all else
are human.

You'd better believe she's strong enough to have crushed him when it happened if she hated him for it.

I believe they thought serving the country was worth the risk of this coming out and I respect and love that impulse.

It's too bad so many among us are so quick to condemn two brave, loving people.

After all, if we condemn one for the deception, don't we have to condemn the other??
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
78. They're not a normal American family.
How many people do you know who run for the Presidency? Look, no one is saying this should be played out in the tabloids. It shouldn't; it is a private matter between Elizabeth and John.....now. But when he was running for the Presidency he knew this was a time bomb that could explode any minute. And he ran anyway. What if he had won the nomination? Cindy McCain would be choosing colors for the White House bedroom right now. It was breathtakingly reckless on Edwards' part for him to think this would not come out. And give us four years of McCain. I wanted Edwards as the nominee, I donated to him, I still think his policy ideas are the best ones for our country. But the days of a public figure's sexual behavior remaining private are long gone, right or wrong. And I thank God he did not win. There is too much at stake.

I think that is why this has caused such a public firestorm--he ran for the office knowing this would destroy his Presidential bid and our hopes of ending the bush junta. And that point is a valid one.

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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. sadly, I agree. nt
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yep, you're absolutely correct
Both are stained on this one. They were willing to risk it all over ego.
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comrade snarky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
101. Ego and a desire for power
No one runs for president without a healthy dose of both.

Elizabeth was wronged in 2006. Then she and John rolled the dice, taking a chance to screw all of us in 2008. I can't let that go.
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. She should have convinced him not to run
You are right. But I suspect that she might have somehow blamed herself, and felt that she needed to support him in order to avoid losing him.
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Yup... What happens in Edwards Big House
Stays in Edwards Big house.
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
66. Perhaps
But it still doesn't excuse putting ego above country. There is too much at risk, and she knew this.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'll flame.
She went through hell because of what he did. In those situations the person you are most used to turning to for comfort is the very person causing your pain, but you can't turn to someone else because you don't want to let them into your life that way, you don't want to give anyone else that much access because they, too, could betray you, and hurt you worse. Your strongest desire is to make it not have happened, to make it all go away and to wake up and find it was a nightmare. You never get over it, never shake it, never see the world the same again, never trust anyone the same way again. Whether it was his first time, or whether the first time happened long ago, it still hurts like a shredder ripping apart everything that makes you you.

To blame her is filthy beyond anything I can express.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Please see my post #23 above.
Your post sounds like someone who got dumped.

I'm glad I don't have to live in the all or nothing world you live in.

And you are completely wrong about being cheated on for a lot of people. Happened to me and I'm fine.

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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Actually, no.
I didn't get dumped, and I see yours as the all-or-nothing world, claiming that she has to share the blame because of some standard of behavior you hold. My point is that she deserves no blame for this. It's a private matter between them, and she owed no one a public explanation beforehand. Turning her into a bad guy for being the victim is reprehensible.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. She perpetuated the lie. Condemn him, you condemn her.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. And that's what I'm saying is despicable.
She had no obligation to discuss her personal life. Condemn him, and you condemn him. Period. Condemn her, and you are an asshole.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Thanks!
:rofl:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. You are welcome, laughter and all. nt
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #33
77. Oh Bullshit. What 'lie' did she perpetuate?
They went through a terrible situation in 2006 when he cheated. They moved past it, obviously.

Neither one of them was under any obligation to anyone of us to disclose what happened two years ago in their marriage.

And, no, I've never been cheated on, or cheated. Cheaters suck. But blaming her sucks worse.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #77
82. Every time she went to a fundraiser and asked for funds KNOWING he would
lose his bid for the Presidency and maybe cost the Democrats the White House if this came to light, she lied. People acted in good faith, gave their money in good faith, and she KNEW what a devastating scandal this would be.


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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #82
86. Don't agree at all.
John Edwards had a platform that would have been amazing for the poverty stricken in this country should he have been elected. Maybe they honestly thought that since they were past it, people who they weren't married to would be as well.

Not excusing what he did, but don't blame Elizabeth. She's the victim here.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
84. Maybe the people who contributed to "their" campaigns without knowing..
all the details are entitled to be mad. Afterall, the Edwards painted themselves as the ideal couple. That was always the impression that they gave. And in spite of how their mutual ambition creeped me out the one thing I admired them for was their love and devotion for one another. Now I find out that isn't even all it was cracked up to be.
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #84
98. We have a winner! n/t
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #84
120. Maybe so. I can't complain about how others choose candidates.
I don't make decisions that way, but I guess I can see how you'd be upset if that was important in your choice. It's a bummer all the way around. I just assume all of them are cheating, so I'm not let down very often, or rather, I assume any of them could be, so I just don't make that part of my decision.

But I don't like people turning on Elizabeth for being cheated on. Maybe she didn't take it as rough as I said in the first post, maybe she did, but it couldn't have been easy on her either way. Also, consider that she may not have known in 2006, as she claims. She may have found out about it when the story hit the tabloids, or even an hour or two before Edwards went public. She would say what she had to. Think of what she has to lose, and Hillary, too. Both of them worked hard to be influential in politics. They sacrificed their chances to be powerful on their own, to be part of a team. With Hillary, she had become one of the top advisers in the White House. With Elizabeth, she had become prominent in all of John's work, and had the outside chance of being what Hillary was.

And both of them would have lost everything they had worked for because their husbands were jackasses. They had no official jobs, they weren't appointed and confirmed by the Senate. Everything they were, in professional terms, was tied to whom they married. Yeah, they could have divorced, started it all over, maybe worked back up to prominence. Hillary was elected Senator, and was a damn powerful one in her own right. But Elizabeth had none of that, and bluntly, she may not have the time to start over.

It's not just about an unfaithful spouse. It's about their ability to accomplish what they've worked for their whole lives, and whether they have to throw all that out because of an unfaithful spouse. I'm not even talking about money and property, but that's at stake, too.

I just can't blame her for what he did, nor for trying to protect herself from what he did. Blame him. He put her in an un-winnable situation, and from the sound of it, he did the same to you.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. No. She lied to those of us who trusted her most.
She owes us a huge apology. She should have had the courage to tell him to drop out or tell the truth.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. How do you know she didn't tell him that?
And she didn't lie to you. She kept that part of her private life private. It should have remained that way.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
92. I agree.
I will not bash Elizabeth. Not on DU, not anywhere.
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colinmom71 Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #21
95. I agree. (nt)
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. What the hell does this have to do
with anything we ought to be concerned about? Bill, John, newt, mccain. Who cares. If you don't think that 95% of congresmen and presidents haven't been guilty of this private sin, you are not very aware. Rich, powerful people think think they are different and are held to different laws. Always have and always will. JE said it himself - that he got to thinking about how great he was and started believing his own pr.

I read an article from several years back. The author had always idolized Willie Mays and finally got to meet him. Said he was very disappointed, that Mr. Mays was very conceited and self important. The author brooded on it for a while and then asked himself a question. If for the last thirty years of your life, everyone you came in contact with, everyone you knew constantly told you that you were a hero, a giant among men, the greatest living human - if that happened to you, wouldn't you start to believe it? We idolize and worship our leaders and our rich. I guess they just start to believe their yes men.

Who cares about someone else's sex life?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. I really don't care. I just can't believe the level of vilification and hatred
spewed by many of these "Democrats" don't take into account the fact that THE EDWARDS made a decision to work it out TWO YEARS ago and that should have been the end of it.

But no. The haters and hysterics and myopic boneheads are all ready to lynch John, when, in fact, it's none of their goddamned business.

Liberal my ass.

Progressive my ass.

I've seen a lot of republican-lite moralizing and hatred here today. I am very disappointed.

I simply pointed out that THEY worked it out. THEY are in this together. WE need to stay out of it.


And I'd like to boil the MSM for thier part.

I wonder how many people the Russians killed today. Can't seem to find that on CNN....
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #28
56. Exept that wasn't the end of it.
Edited on Sat Aug-09-08 06:36 AM by girl gone mad
He hired his girlfriend, paid her with campaign funds, lied over and over to his staffers, is possibly still lying about the dates of the affair to cover for the fact that he continued to cheat after his wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer, got a buddy to pay off the girlfriend and probably pay off another staffer to pretend to be the father of his love child. All this while he was trying to win the Democratic nomination, portraying himself as a great family man who really cared about the poor working people that supported him.

But, keep on pretending that this has something to do with a man's inherent right to cheat and the abject prudishness of those who would deny him that right. Some people just can't seem get past the sex. No, not the people who are angry with Edwards, but the ones who rush to defend him for getting some strange, conveniently forgetting about all of those other pesky little details.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. Golly.
Just like your favorite soap opera.

It's their life. Is yours all that squeaky? Want your diary made public just so people can thrill to a Desperate Housewives like moment?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #56
73. Well....
Edited on Sat Aug-09-08 10:38 AM by cliffordu

"But, keep on pretending that this has something to do with a man's inherent right to cheat and the abject prudishness of those who would deny him that right."

How you glean that out of what I wrote above illustrates the moralistic fauxrage and hypocritical high horse I pointed out. Thanks for a perfect example.

Everything you wrote in your first paragraph EXCEPT the initial foray into that other woman was condoned and supported by Elizabeth Edwards. Her campaigning for TWO YEARS is tacit approval.

I've been married 25 years, and if I came home with a long tale about how I accidentally had an a affair and would my wife pleeeeze help me get elected dogcatcher/president/whatever......

She would NOT have helped me cover it up, to say the least.

Your insult about a man's right to cheat is, well, typical. When running a specious argument or a bogus reach-around insult, paint with as broad a brush as possible.....You can cover a lot of flaws in logic and personal rage if you fall back on sexist pap and knee-jerk talking points.

I'm sure Elizabeth would be very proud of you.

:sarcasm:


edit for speling(sic)
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #56
117. Nobody's defending him.
We're saying it isn't any of your business. Just like what you do with your private parts aren't any of mine. There's real issues to be debated. One man's stupidity (or one woman's) about sex is not something that irritates or titillates me unless it involves me personally. Bush starting a war that kills millions. Cheney cheating poor people out of money for himself, Rove rigging voting boxes to steal elections. Those things bother me. (What titillates me is none of your business.) John and Elizabeth Edwards would have helped fix all of the things I mentioned. What problems they have between them, they have worked out. If it weren't for the vicarious drama that some people derive from celebrity sex, they still could help the country. But because of those who get red in the face and puff up all self righteously over these kinds of things, we have lost the services of a great couple. Thanks a lot.
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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. To me.. she's the same as Hillary.. Spitzer's wife.. etc.
I don't know anything about their marriages - many get married for "convineience" and really don't care at all about who their husbands sleep with. They're happy to have the money, their place in society, and all that goes along with that.. and they know full well that their husbands are sleeping with other women (and sometimes they're happily sleeping with other men). If that's the case - then more power to them.. they're doing what they want to do.

However, if Elizabeth had no clue (which I am thinking may be the case) - then she (and other women who stay with cheating husbands) deserves what she's accepting. Your life is only as good as you make it.. and if she wants to forgive him and can live with that, good for her.

Personally, I couldn't. I'd leave my husband, because I wouldn't want to wonder every single night he came home an hour late where he was, what (or who) he was doing.. etc. But again - that's MY choice for MY life. Elizabeth et. all get to make theirs.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
29. You are absolutely right. Neither of them told the truth,
and they caused all of us who worked for Edwards' campaign to repeat their lies. So, yes, she shares the blame for the lies.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I actually think they're impulse to continue to serve was admirable, but the
idea that it wouldn't come out in the tabloid culture of today is a little nieve.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
38. I am hurt by them both.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. No. You are hurt every day by a criminal GOP administration
The Edwards' family drama does not involve nor affect you at all.

You are a victim, but not the one you make yourself out to be. It makes yo feel superior to pretend you're a victim of JE's adultery because that is false martyrdom and hypocrisy.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I can be hurt by both.
I'm not hurt by JE's adultery. I am hurt by the deception. He presented himself as one thing and was in fact something else.

I'm not superior. But I'm also not presenting myself to the public as something I'm not. Try not to lump me in with all the other comments you read about it. I'm not calling Edwards names or moralizing. I'm just really sad that this is true. That's a pretty normal feeling.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
41. Just like Hillary, really. She bent over backwards all those years
covering for Bill.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #41
91. ...for political gain. "Hillary was the one that handled the bimbo eruptions." nt
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
46. Nope.
not.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
47. Yeah, clifford, blame the spouse who was cheated on. Like it was her job to out him.
Disgraceful.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. My point is, and I'll speak. very. slowly.
They took care of this between themselves. It is none of our collective business.

If people are going to howl vile and disgusting epithets at John for LYING TO THE PUBLIC, then they are howling at her too, because SHE PERPETUATED THE LIE every time she went to a fundraiser knowing that if the information got out he'd be ruined.

He lied. She lied. They lied. Slime him, you slime them both.

Unless she is a prisoner (which I don't believe) or extremely weak (which is absurd), she did these things of her own free will.

THEY TOOK CARE OF IT. Edwards does NOT need yours, or anyone else's abuse. And neither does she.

And I'd vote for him right fucking now.
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #51
71. Bingo. n/t
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #51
112. "Slime him, you slime them both." - utter nonsense from start to finish
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
48. Bush should be convicted of 35+ counts of unconstitutional crime against America.
I'm not certain that the Edwards' troubles should take up more than a minute of our time. Our compassion, yes, but not our time. Most certainly not our news sources or attention!
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
50. nope just him
i am mad because i thought he was such a super sweet nice guy. he, more than most democrats, promoted himself as this super moral, good values, gee whiz kinda guy. i never thought much about her one way or the other. she seems nice, and the fact that she forgave and supports her cheating husband is more proof that she is nice just like i thought she was. so she is what i thought, he is not what i thought. so he seems to be much more devious.
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republicansarewhores Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
52. You people really don't get it do you.
As one who's been cheated on...

If a cheater has no qualms about lying to the person they have made a life promise to-

What makes ANY of you think a cheater is not going to lie to anyone else they feel they can pull the wool over?

This is not about moralizing.

It's about seeing things for what they ARE and not what you all want to see things FOR.

This guy lied to his wife, he lied to his supporters... he is not to be trusted to tell the truth about anything in my mind from this point out.

He is a textbook example of malignant, self-serving narcissism.

I could care less about his personal life or how this effects him and Elizabeth.

But I'd be DAMNED if I eve trusted this guy to tell ME the truth unless it served his own agenda, as it does now with damage control since the Enquirer outed him.

RAW
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #52
85. A-friggin-Men! nt
Edited on Sat Aug-09-08 11:02 AM by Kahuna
:applause:
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comrade snarky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
103. Cheating IS bad
And I've been cheated on.

But it pales in comparison to the cover up.
If the Edwards had come out and said "this happened in 06, it was bad and now it's over" I'd be defending them. However that would have blasted the perfect family image they wanted to project as part of their campaign.

It was a calculated move from both of them to hide this affair. They lied about it and sent out surrogates to lie for them. People who trusted them and believed in John's candidacy were duped into lying.

Elizabeth was the victim in 2006. I'm not talking about 2006. It's 2008 now and they both decided to run with a scandal that would cost the Democrats the White House.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
53. Maybe they thought it wasn't anybody else's business
Ya think?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #53
74. Yep, that's what I think.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #53
110. Then they were clueless about the political reality in this country.
Rightly or wrongly, it would have costed us the election had he gotten the nomination.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
54. It's true that she shares some responsibility, but it is very different.
Edited on Sat Aug-09-08 05:45 AM by TexasObserver
She's trying to be a good wife, a good mate, a good mother, and get herself well at the same time. Her mental state is on survival mode. She is to be given slack, as a victim of circumstances.

She is not the one who solicited campaign funds, used them to pay off the paramour, fundled other campaign money through a lawyer to launder, and pretended to be Mr. Kissy Face.

Her culpability is rational and limited.

I don't blame her. I do blame him.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
55. I do have a couple of questions for Elizabeth
Edited on Sat Aug-09-08 05:58 AM by Apollo11
We now know that Elizabeth knew about this in 2006, and still told John that she would support him making another run to be the Democratic nominee for President.

Of course John is primarily responsible for his own actions, but they both knew that if he succeeded in winning the nomination, and if the facts if his affair ever came out, it would seriously damage the Democratic Party's chances in November 2008.

Despite her serious health issues, Elizabeth worked hard on John's behalf, even to the extent of publicly criticizing other candidates - notably Hillary Clinton.

"In my opinion, the candidate who's best for women in this race is my husband."
Elizabeth Edwards speaking to The Progressive - August 2008
http://www.progressive.org/mag_intv0807
http://www.alternet.org/story/57463 /

"I think one of the things that make me so completely comfortable with this is that keeping that door open to women is actually more a policy of John's than Hillary's."
Elizabeth Edwards speaking to Salon.com - July 2007
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/07/17/elizabeth_...

I cannot think of anyone other that Elizabeth Edwards who seriously questioned the idea that Hillary's candidacy - and her bid to win the nomination - represented a major step forward for women in America.

... and all the while she was covering up for her sleazebag husband ...
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Dammit Ann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
57. BLEHHHH!
NO. And no, NO!!!!
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remember2000forever Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
58. Hmmmmm, I wonder just how long she has known....
Remember how distraught they both looked when he abruptly dropped out of the Campaign?
Remember how they both looked disheveled, which was not like them? Perhaps That was when he dropped the bombshell.
Just wondering.......
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
59. No flames here. That is an astute observation. She doesn't seem like a shrinking
violet to me. It also appears that her opinions would be valued by him. If she had told him that running for Pres with this in his recent past was irresponsible and that she wouldn't be a party to it, it seems like he would have listened to her.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #59
75. I think you are absolutely correct. She is NOT a shrinking violet.
And I'll bet if she wanted him out of the house he'd be living at the Hyatt.
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Fla Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
63. This is a 2 part deception, Elizabeth was the victim in the 1st part
Edwards screwing around behind her back, because his ego got too big and he thought with his dick instead of his head. Once Elizabeth was told, the 2nd part of the deception began. How they ever thought he could run for the nomination and his nasty deed wouldn't come out is beyond me. What this tells me is both their egos were super huge. They thought they were beyond public scrutiny. That's where his supporters became the victims. Believing in them while both of them were deceiving us.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #63
90. Right. There are two separate issues at play here (as I stated on a previous thread -
Did you see it?) :evilgrin:

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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
64. Message to DU: Ignore all Edwards Threads
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
65. I am. n/t
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
67. I am.
I support her decision to stay & I wish her all the best.
Still, I am shocked that she supported his run, knowing what this could have done to our party.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
68. I'm only angry at the hypocrisy. The affair is between them.
I truly don't care that McCain and Edwards had affairs. What I care about is they both claimed some sort of higher moral ground by stating that marriage is only between a man and woman. McCain goes even further, talking about the sanctity of marriage and all that BS - all the while knowing he himself had taken a big fat dump on his own vows. Ugh.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #68
76. Yep, yep and yep.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
79. They both duped Dems (except for me) into believing in them. I always
believed that Elizabeth was more ambitious than John and it was she that wanted him to be president more than he wanted to be.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #79
83. Interesting take. That actually makes more sense than a lot of things I've read....
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
81. SHE didnt have the affair. SHE didnt run for office. ALL on edwards shoulders
no shifting the blame. it is all his
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #81
87. She did run for office. The Edwards always presented themselves as a team.
I don't know where you've been that you could have missed that.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. regardless of her connection to him the FACT is he ran for president
that simple. her name is no where on the ticket.

when it comes to any decision once elected, it will be him saying aye or nay
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. Elizabeth was just as ambitious and always seemed to want it more than
him, IMO. She was always more forceful in making the argument as to why she thought he was the best man for the job. Who was it who called Hardball when ann coulter was on their dissing her husband? It was Elizabeth while John hid behind her skirt.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #89
94. and edwards CHOSE to have the affair. edwards CHOSE to run for president
edwards CHOSE to pay with campaign money. edwards CHOSE to put the political party and all of us at risk because of those choices.

who the fuck cares what YOU think of elizabeth.

facts

wonderful stuff
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comrade snarky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #94
107. You really think they aren't a team?
They both worked on this campaign. Fact

They both covered it up. Fact

It would have cost Democrats the White House had Edwards won the nomination. Fact


Hey! Facts are cool! She is not an innocent victim in the cover up.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. i said nothing about innocent. i am talking about who is responsible
i place the responsibility on the person who chose to have an affair. who chose to run for president.
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comrade snarky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. For the affair, yes. I agree
Edited on Sat Aug-09-08 01:48 PM by comrade snarky
Two different things here, the affair in 06 and the campaign lies in 08.

In the first it's the two who decide to cheat. In the second it's whoever decided to ignore this impending scandal and lie to supporters. Since she knew in 2006 that includes Elizabeth. It's disappointing.

<edited for tpyo and clarity>
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #111
113. i can certainly respect and understand why you feel as you do
i dont feel the same.

i dont have much faith in politicians not fucking around so it isnt a matter of disappointment for me but the race.

i really give it to edwards, but i hear what you say

at the least she should have convinced him that she couldnt be a part of the lie, possibly hurting the chances and behoove hom not to run
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Clear Blue Sky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
100. His behavior was reckless and displayed poor judgement.
And Elizabeth looked the other way. They both share blame in this.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. Don't bring a too-adult view into this, it distracts from the flaming.
:hi:
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Clear Blue Sky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. Indeed...
;)
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
105. Keeping silent and cheating on your wife who is fighting cancer aren't the same n/t
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
106. I think both of them displayed very poor judgement in this.
I think political ambition overrode common sense on this. Did they both really think this wouldn't come out eventually?
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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
114. I am not angy at her, what choice did she have?
It's not like someone in her condition is going to call her husband out on the carpet or leave him.
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Fla Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #114
119. She is a strong woman in her own right.
Even with her illness, all she had to say was "John if you run for president, I will not appear at ANY campaign events, I will not speak at ANY fund raisers, I will not comment on your candidacy." That would have spoken volumes. He could not have run if she was not behind him. SHE HAD A CHOICE.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
115. Here's my working theory on why she's not accountable.
I believe John never told her about the affair until last October, when the first public whispers in tabloid media were being heard. By that time, his girlfriend was pregnant, about five months pregnant. I believe John set up his aide to marry the woman, and used his attorney buddy to funnel money from the campaign to the girlfriend.

I believe John hid everything from Elizabeth, denied that the affair was current, but fessed up to a brief affair in 2006.

I believe John has yet to come clean entirely with Elizabeth, and that may happen if paternity is established.

Under my theory, Elizabeth learns in late 2007 about an affair she thinks is long over, was brief, and didn't produce a child. She therefore agrees to stand by John, and go forward.

So I measure her conduct as reasonable and expected, particularly under her circumstances. This is all on John.
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Fla Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. Okay...saying we buy that version of events.........
Edited on Sat Aug-09-08 03:56 PM by Fla Dem
What arrogance for them to think he could run for Pres of the US and nobody would find out about the affair. And, if they even considered for 1 minute that it would be found out....what then. Were they so egotistical that they would think no one would care, or it would not effect his race for the presidency? What if he has somehow won the primary. Did they even stop for 1 minute and consider that if the truth then came out that he would have to withdraw and the Repugs would then for sure win another 4 years in office?......... No they did not think of that at all.......what selfishness. And I say all this having had extreme high regard for Elizabeth. It hurts so much more when someone you really, really respect ends up disappointing you.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #115
118. That could turn out to be the true turn of events. Time will tell. Something is
real funky about the payoffs to the alleged baby-daddy (Andrew Young) who is supposed to be married himself :wtf: (the plot thickens).

However, just going by the events as depicted by the Edwards thus far (and of course we have no reason to believe what they are saying is entirely true), Elizabeth is a party to a fraud concerning his run for the nomination.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #118
123. the story is beginning to take shape
John needs to come clean 100%, but if he misused campaign money to pay for girlfriend's needs, he simply cannot admit it. He and his attorney will deny, deny, deny. Unless there is a civil case or a criminal investigation, we may never hear of the paperwork and phone records which would make it all more clear.

I suspect John wasn't entirely candid with Elizabeth, either, and that may be the reason he clings to the "only happened in 2006" story, which seems very unlikely.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
121. I am just angry at you for being a dumbass.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
124. Somewhat
But then, she didn't do the lying, she just kept a secret.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
126. Yup; Elizabeth, if you're reading this, you fucked up
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