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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 10:15 AM
Original message
Poll question: The real anthrax perps include, but are not limited to...
...Philip Zack, Donald Rumsfeld, and Dick Cheney.

Your thoughts?

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's ALWAYS been Rumsfeld involved with Anthrax . . .
and it looks like Philip Zack is their "go get it" guy ---

It is Rumsfeld who called for a "more potent" strain of Anthrax ---

and who was invested in vaccines ---

It was also Cheney/Rumsfeld who supplied money and chemical weapons to

Saddam Hussein to be used against Iran --- including biological weapons ---

ANTHRAX, etc.

It's Rumsfeld who has profited from VACCINES . . .

forcing questionable anthrax vaccines on troops ---

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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, Cheney and Rumsfeld are long time partners in crime...
...many crimes, not the least of which is murder.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. That's right. They were a team. n/t
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. yes...plus...
rumsfeld is Mr. Asparatame.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. Anthrax = 100% inside job, from the top
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. Where is "it wouldn't surprise me at all but I don't suspect a thing without more proof"?
n/t
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kick for a larger sample.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. Kick for a larger sample.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. Um neither has the scientific know how to do this
Handling weapons grade anthrax is a very specialized skill, I have skills in biology and I COULD NOT do it..There HAD to be a bioweapons researcher involved.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I don't doubt that, and the poll question was worded to...
...allow for it: "The real anthrax perps include, but are not limited to..."

No one is suggesting that either Cheney or Rumsfeld actually prepared and mailed the anthrax letters themselves.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Neither could Ivins . . . that doesn't mean that Philip Zack or Rummy
Edited on Thu Aug-07-08 07:22 PM by defendandprotect
didn't help grab some weaponized anthrax -- all of the Ames strain -- and pass

it on to someone who added water -- which by the way came from the area near

Camp David --- and so forth . . .



If Cheney can move nukes around the country, I think Rummy can probably pull up

some weaponized anthrax from a MILITARY lab ---

Rummy was also calling for increasing the potency of the anthrax . . . he must

have known someone working on that?

AND, the stuff that was sent to Daschle wasn't only weaponized -- it was more

sophisticated --- something was added to it to make it float in the air.

Feingold's office was BEHIND Daschle's and they had the stuff creating a problem

for them ---


Also, keep in mind that Ivins headed up the investigative team for the government

and he had SAMPLES of all the stuff from the letters in his work area ---

so did his co-worker.

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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. Kick for a larger sample.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. Although security at the Fort Detrick Lab was pretty lax,
I find it hard to believe someone could just walk out of a US Army facility with an anthrax sample... unless such a person had covert help (access pass, the like) from someone very high up - say the SecDef. And I don't doubt some whack RW (or even unwitting patsy) microbiologist could be found to convert the liquid anthrax sample into a large amount of powdered anthrax at a secret facility. I have serious doubts Ivins could have done so without somebody noticing and asking questions - especially during the aftermath of 9-11 and the anthrax attack.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. Battelle Memorial Institute
I don't remember much else, but I do remember that name. Battelle is one of the only private contractors who received live anthrax virus, & they received anthrax that matched the virus that was included in the mailings. Battelle first received the virus only months before the anthrax mailings began, & also got a contract in Sept. 2001 to create an improved, more potent anthrax virus. Battelle also got a billion-dollar contract to build a new "National BioDefense Center" at Ft. Detrick.

Digging for the old post, here -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Battelle has offices in New Jersey. Just randomly, I looked up where Battelle is in relation to the mailbox where the letters were dropped off. Battelle has a full laboratory 40 miles away, and also has a venture capitalist fund called "Battelle Venture". This fund invests millions of dollars in emerging biodefense companies, many of which use technologies & vaccines developed by Battelle itself. The "Battelle Venture" office is located in Princeton, NJ, less than 3 miles from the mailbox.

http://www.battelleventures.com /

http://www.battelle.org/
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Good info, thanks for posting it.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Sure
Edited on Thu Aug-07-08 10:10 PM by Marie26
I looked to see if there's any recent articles that mention a connection between Battelle & Ivins. According to a Aug. 4 LA Times article, Battelle's facility actually provided Ivins w/the anthrax spores that were eventually traced to the anthrax attacks. During the investigation, the FBI sent some of the anthrax to Battelle for genetic testing. Unfortunately, Battelle accidentally destroyed the anthrax samples instead, making them useless for any genetic testing. Oops.

This is from the LA Times, Aug. 4., 2008:

"Records reviewed by The Times and interviews with people knowledgeable about the investigation provide new details about the trail of evidence that finally led to Ivins.

Ivins had mixed spores shipped to Ft. Detrick from the Army's Dugway Proving Ground in Utah, a facility operated by the Battelle Memorial Institute in Ohio, a private contractor that performs top- secret work for the CIA and other agencies. By cross-referencing the dates when those spores were received and handled at Ft. Detrick, the FBI sharply narrowed the list of government employees with possible access to the material....

Ivins' government work with the separate batches of dry powder anthrax was not widely known at USAMRIID. Two former top officials there told The Times in recent weeks that they had no idea until being contacted by a reporter that USAMRIID had received anthrax in either powder or wet form from Dugway or Battelle, whose own anthrax testing is done in Ohio. The former officials noted that USAMRIID typically supplies live anthrax spores for use at the two outside facilities, not the other way around.

The forensic analysis of the anthrax sent in the mailings had long posed a challenge to the FBI, whose in-house scientists were not equipped to decipher the potential origin of the material. Some of the first analysis was performed by Ivins and other scientists at USAMRIID; such efforts also were attempted at Battelle, but technicians there rendered some of the material forensically useless by first sterilizing it with steam, scientists told The Times. A spokesman for Battelle, T.R. Massey, declined earlier this year to discuss Battelle's role.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-an...
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
18. Kick for a larger sample.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
19. Let's see ... anthrax came from US Military base. Wrong guy for 6 years.
Edited on Fri Aug-08-08 07:08 AM by TexasObserver
After going through two patsies in six years, the rapidly closing Bush-Cheney administration had to wrap it up. No loose ends. No messy prosecution where the patsy actually gets a lawyer and defends himself while proving the government is pushing a phony case.

I have no doubt at all that he did not commit suicide, that he was murdered, and that those who did it did so to protect Dick Cheney and others.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. Kick
Murderers, liars and fascist pigs.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kick for a larger sample
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. Kick for a larger sample.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. Kick for a larger sample.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
24. Kick for a larger sample.
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