What if the Leahy / Daschle Anthrax HAD contained Bentonite...

[Junkdrawer]

GIANT KUDOS to defendandprotect and this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3722694

Think about how many mysteries this clears up....

If there had been bentonite in the anthrax, the Iraqi invasion would have been Late 2001, early 2002 at the latest.

All the calls for diplomacy in order to stop a stateless enemy? Moot.

All the need to get a UN mandate would have been moot. Iraq attacked the US with WMDs and we responded. End of discussion.

And all the clumsy/botched attempts to find Iraqi WMDs? Moot.

You wouldn't have had Bush and Cheney running around ordering people to FIND a link between Iraq and 9/11.

On Edit:

For background, read this article if you haven't already:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3714643

[CJCRANE]

1. IMO

Bush-Cheney aren't interested in the details, they can afford to be sloppy because the propaganda creates the reality.

They wanted a terror attack by arabs - they got it (it didn't matter where the arabs where from the MSM spin did the rest).

Same with the anthrax. Send it out then spin the rest.

[Junkdrawer]

3. Obviously they still invaded with Plan B...

But if they had IRONCLAD PROOF Saddam attacked the US, it would all have been SO much easier.

[CJCRANE]

24. It was already pretty easy.

Here's Bush-Cheney's MO:

1) Facilitate event (e.g. 9/11 or anthrax attack)
2) Tell the media their version of the story (i.e. Bush-Cheney's)
3) Media repeats Bush-Cheney version of events

Of course then comes

4) Years later we find out that Bush-Cheney's version was a lie
but by then it's too late and only a few lefty bloggers care anyway

And for completists there's

2a) Bush-Cheney suppress any investigation or at best put one of their complicit stooges in charge to muddy the waters so that nothing of value is accompished

[whistle]

2. Article today says none was ever found...

<snip>
During the last week of October, 2001, ABC News, led by Brian Ross, continuously trumpeted the claim as their top news story that government tests conducted on the anthrax — tests conducted at Ft. Detrick — revealed that the anthrax sent to Daschele contained the chemical additive known as bentonite. ABC News, including Peter Jennings, repeatedly claimed that the presence of bentonite in the anthrax was compelling evidence that Iraq was responsible for the attacks, since — as ABC variously claimed — bentonite “is a trademark of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program” and “only one country, Iraq, has used bentonite to produce biological weapons.”

ABC News’ claim — which they said came at first from “three well-placed but separate sources,” followed by “four well-placed and separate sources” — was completely false from the beginning. There never was any bentonite detected in the anthrax (a fact ABC News acknowledged for the first time in 2007 only as a result of my badgering them about this issue). It’s critical to note that it isn’t the case that preliminary tests really did detect bentonite and then subsequent tests found there was none. No tests ever found or even suggested the presence of bentonite. The claim was just concocted from the start. It just never happened.
<MORE>

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16424.html

[Junkdrawer]

4. But if the guys who did this attack HAD put bentonite in with the anthrax...n/t

[whistle]

7. But they did not, which says they were either too dumb to know to do that,

...or had no access to bentonite to add any or just just forgot.

I would think that someone like Dr Irvin(?) the guy who suicided would have known enough to include bentonite, so the abscence of that material raises a big question mark regarding his involvement. I have no idea on this except that in my book the case is not solved and should not be closed

[Edweird]

12. If they did it would have simply diluted the anthrax. Bentonite is clay.

It is nontoxic and inert. You can eat it.

[mmonk]

5. It could have been a double cross by someone with a conscience.

[Junkdrawer]

6. Or someone in the chain that was supposed to put the bentonite in...

was afraid to touch the stuff and, not knowing just how important it was, chickened out and lied.

[Edweird]

13. Bentonite is harmless. Why would anybody be afraid of it? You can eat it...

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/bentonite-clay.htm

I wouldn't recommend it, but hey to each their own.....

bentonite is the earth... dirt... ya know the GROUND.

[librechik]

19. There was a talking point at the time which held that Saddam's anthrax uniquely had bentonite

which turned out to also be a falsehood. But we were led to believe that was the smoking gun which meant Saddam. Not true.

[Edweird]

20. Even the most cursory of research would reveal that as the lie it is.

Bentonite is useless and pointless in anthrax. What's bothering me about this thread is people are taking a micro view, speculating about this-doctor-and-that and "double crosses" and whatnot, when they should pull back to a macro view and see this as proof of another of Cheney's lies and possible proof that he was involved in the attack as well.

[Junkdrawer]

23. Technical details on the use of bentonite in weaponizing anthrax...

But dried spores tend to form larger particles, with a static electric charge that makes them cling doggedly to surfaces rather than floating through the air where they can be inhaled.

Fluidising agent

The Soviet Union got around this by grinding dried cultures along with chemicals that cause the particles to remain separate. Iraq is the only other state known to have tried making such a weapon, and it dried anthrax cultures along with bentonite, a clay used as a fluidising agent in powders. But last week the White House said there was no bentonite in the Daschle letter.


...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1490-anthrax-preparation-indicates-homegrown-origin.html

[whistle]

8. A double cross would have been punished as some as it became apparent

[mmonk]

15. Maybe they have been.

Also, maybe they have a way to make it public should they be. Maybe it was Ivins.

[Edweird]

9. Bentonite is "drilling mud". It's used in construction EVERYWHERE

what's the big deal about it?

[Junkdrawer]

11. See post #2. n/t

[Edweird]

14. I read the post. That didn't clear anything up. We have "anonymous" sources using

"scary" names like Bentonite. It wasn't used for anything, but I could have told you that. Bentonite is clay. Think of it as cornstarch for construction. It's just as harmless, and cornstarch is processed, while bentonite is just scooped out of the ground. The idea that bentonite is a component of a chemical weapon is flat out ludicrous.

[Junkdrawer]

16. ABC News, Cheney, McCain etc. said that the presence of Bentonite PROVED...

that the anthrax came from Iraq. Only problem: Bentonite wasn't in the anthrax tested.

Read the Glenn Greenwald article in my OP.

[Edweird]

17. Well, we already know that cheney is a lying asshole.

bentonite got its name from here:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=qJi&q=Fort+Benton,+Montana&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=title

(Fort Benton, Montana - my link isn't working right)

The US is the biggest producer of bentonite, followed by China and Greece.

This whole thing is one big misinformation campaign. Why on earth would a scientist contaminate their clean room and anthrax biological weapon with clay? What possible reason could there be for this? This whole thing is idiotic. The anthrax came from inside the US, anybody with two brain cells to rub together should understand that by now. Anybody using sophisticated techniques for weapons production will certainly be sure their weapon is MARKER FREE, that is, unidentifiable. Anthrax is produced and handled in a 'clean room', and to introduce bentonite into it would have required an overt intentional act. There is no way a scientist is going to say "Hey, let me put some dirt from outside in the anthrax". It isn't going to happen. All bentonite would do is reduce the effectiveness of the anthrax. Mark cheney's words as yet another lie and use this as proof.

[DCKit]

18. Yep. And being science-phobic, they never considered the genetic markers...

of U.S. produced anthrax which led directly to the lab where it was grown.

How fucking sad is that?

[Junkdrawer]

21. From Glenn Greenwald's original article...

...

During the last week of October, 2001, ABC News, led by Brian Ross, continuously trumpeted the claim as their top news story that government tests conducted on the anthrax -- tests conducted at Ft. Detrick -- revealed that the anthrax sent to Daschele contained the chemical additive known as bentonite. ABC News, including Peter Jennings, repeatedly claimed that the presence of bentonite in the anthrax was compelling evidence that Iraq was responsible for the attacks, since -- as ABC variously claimed -- bentonite "is a trademark of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's biological weapons program" and "only one country, Iraq, has used bentonite to produce biological weapons."

....

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/index.html

Had the analysis stuck, this "mud" would have been the #1 Casus Belli of the Iraq War.

[Edweird]

22. and it would have been just as much a lie as any of the others.

Actually, more in my opinion. To me this would be the same as saying "There's wheat flour in the anthrax, it's proof....." and it would be easily debunked as the bullshit it is. As noted upthread, all of this is overlooking the genetic markers that lead back to OUR OWN labs....

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.