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MUST Read- Dr. Meryl Nass, MD on Ivins "Suicide."

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 01:39 PM
Original message
MUST Read- Dr. Meryl Nass, MD on Ivins "Suicide."
Edited on Sat Aug-02-08 01:40 PM by BeHereNow
Dr. Nass has been one of the whistle blowers on the
Anthrax Vaccines and military contracts with the
highly suspect Bioport/Emergent Solutions company
that Ivins worked for while they were trying to secure
a contract.

This story just keeps getting more and more interesting-
From her web site-
http://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com /
"Back in 2002, in preparation for an interview on the anthrax letters for "Unsolved Mysteries," I reviewed the media coverage. As I read article after article, I found that the statements most germane to an understanding of the case were almost entirely unsourced. It was unnerving to conclude that I knew very little about the letters, as so little of the reported "evidence" was derived from people willing to go on the record.

The same appears to be happening in current reporting on Bruce Ivins. Though I deeply respect LA Times reporter David Willman, who has twice won a Pulitzer, his breaking stories on Bruce Ivins are almost entirely unsourced. Did Ivins really stand to gain financially from his anthrax vaccine patents? Historically, government employees do not receive these royalties: the government does. If this modest bench scientist had a financial motive (plus access to weaponized anthrax, plus ability to mail letters from New Jersey and other places such as the UK) it is critical to the case, and the evidence needs to be unimpeachable.

Lest we forget: this case has had 3 false leads, who were probably deliberately set up, before Bruce Ivins: Hatfill, Assaad, and the ex-Detrick scientists who harrassed Assaad."

Also, check out this thread by deminks-
We've done a lot of research with links on it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Curiouser and curiouser-
BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. From Deminks thread- massive sell off of Bioport stock after Ivin's death.
Edited on Sat Aug-02-08 01:46 PM by BeHereNow
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ir?s=EBS

Insiders all sold within days.
As Elehhhhana pointed out, one of the
poo bahs in the company was on a
wanted list as a suspect back in 2001...
Looks like he just made a shit load of money from his sale
of shares in the company, which has an extremely
nefarious past with the pentagon and contracts...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Just when you think it can't get any stranger.

BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kicking/Hoping some of our better researchers follow up!
KPete?
Lala"
SLAD?
Octafish?

BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. More from Dr. Nass- READ the comment from "Dr. Barnard."
Edited on Sat Aug-02-08 02:20 PM by BeHereNow
PRESS RELEASE

For more than a year, we have been privileged to represent Dr. Bruce
Ivins during the
investigation of the anthrax deaths of September and October of 2001.
http://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com /

Under entry titled
"Press release:"
"For six years, Dr.
Ivins fully cooperated with that investigation, assisting the
government in every way that
was asked of him. He was a world -renowned and highly decorated
scientist who served
his country for over 33 years with the Department of the Army. We are
saddened by his
death, and disappointed that we will not have the opportunity to
defend his good name
and reputation in a court of law. We assert his innocence in these
killings, and would
have established that at trial. The relentless pressure of accusation
and innuendo takes its
toll in different ways on different people, as has already been seen
in this investigation.
In Dr. Ivins' case, it led to his untimely death. We ask that the
media respect the privacy
of his family, and allow them to grieve."
Posted by Meryl Nass, M.D. at 8:36 PM 2 comments"

Dr. Barnard makes the second comment in the comment section.

BHN

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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. After Iraq, was perhaps this administration's most urgent mission to nail the culprit(s)
who mailed anthrax-laced letters to Senators Daschle and Leahy? :shrug: :D :P
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. They showed as much enthusiasm for finding the Anthrax killer as for finding Bin Laden . .. none -
Edited on Sat Aug-02-08 10:33 PM by defendandprotect
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factcheckr Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. As adamant as OJ was about finding Nicole's real killers
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. That would have given control of the senate back to the Republicans.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. The media has already closed the books on this. They have decreed that the
perpetrator of the anthrax murders was this one bad apple. Case closed.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. No autopsy necessary...
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. k&r -- Willman appearance on KO was less than convincing
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. why was Judith Miller writing about BioPort and anthrax in 2002?
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factcheckr Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. Biowarfare was Judith Miller's beat
Reporting on biological weapons was part of Miller's job at NYT. The other part, of course, was to be a loyal Bush stooge who spread false data about Iraq's WMDs. She even co-authored an in-depth book on germ warfare, along with two real journalists. I bought it back before I knew who she really was. It has a lot of interesting info in it, but unfortunately, her complete lack of credibility makes it worthless. By the time she helped out Valerie Plame, it was too late to get my money back. I wish the other two guys would put out a revised edition with all of her stuff thrown out.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Came across Dr. Nass quite by accident- one thing led to another.
I don't know about "great" research, but certainly some
interesting items the MSM has completely blacked out.

Imagine that... MSM failing to report ALL of the story.

BHN
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
This is such a huge lie. And well-timed too, to remind us all of the "danger" we're in.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. God, I hate this shit...
The more you dig, the more you realize that Ivins was not only probably "suicided", but his reputation was also unjustly destroyed.

But here's the catch: You have to actually investigate the facts to realize all this.

And your friends and neighbors will only know what the media tells them.

So once again, I walk around knowing that I'm being lied to while most around me are totally oblivious.

God, I hate this shit...
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Like everything the BFEE is involved in, investigating ALL the facts is difficult-
A thread here, a thread there; all of it so tangled and
enmeshed in a thousand corrupt hands.

I hate it too Junkdrawer.

Being one of the few awake in this nightmare of treachery.
Makes you crazy sometimes, no?

At least we have DU where some people are actually paying attention.

BHN
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. You're not alone.
I'm alsoHereNow :) as much as I can be, anyhow.

Doing some sleuthing on this case, too. Details are a convoluted mess. But the big picture is clear: Inside job to scare Congress and peasants into having the Patriot Act rammed down their throats... plus all other atrocities that followed 9/11 on top of that initial "searing event".

I get the sense that many are waking up at last because this "Anthrax Case Closed" scenario so obviously stinks to high heaven for anyone with a functioning nose.





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sourmilk Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. We'd all like to believe that our governments are above this sort of behaviour...
Unfortunately, we are so often proved wrong that it's a wonder we are not PERMANENTLY ashamed of our leaders...

Hmmm...now that I think of it, I AM permanently ashamed of my government's leaders...

Anyone who believes that this kind of cloak and dagger "hit" is necessary for the preservation of "national security" is criminally insane. This has clearly happened in order to protect vile perpetrators of treason and murder, period.

RE :puke:, perhaps?

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DeepBlueC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. k&r
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. If I had inside info re. gov't wrongdoing re. anthrax and the "war on terror" I'd
be terrified, probably to the point of inaction, of being disappeared, tortured, and my corpse disposed of in some super-efficient way. That's just from KNOWING of such stuff, to say nothing of getting on stage and repeating it, making myself a target. Except for the 14, the nameless people rendered to blacksites simply don't reappear. There's no knowing who and how many are tortured to death, or how the torture is done when there's no need to account for the condition of the victim's body - we only know the system still exists. In a country where THAT is now considered normal, and receives little attention (yesterday's news), the terror level for possible whistleblowers gets close to absolute.

What would you do, knowing that there are no "good guys" to come to your rescue, anymore, and your disappearance wouldn't be considered very newsworthy, or be taken very seriously. I know I'd think twice before whistleblowing on a matter so serious as this, that's for sure.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. If so, does this mean Jean Duley was in on
destroying his reputation and adding the pressure? http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0801081...
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Just in on Yahoo front page news- Pounding the Duley meme...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080803/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/a...

Intro paragraph-
"FREDERICK, Md. - Bruce E. Ivins, the late microbiologist suspected in the 2001 anthrax attacks, had attempted to poison people and his therapist said she was "scared to death" of him, according to court testimony that emerged Saturday."

Sure doesn't match up with what his colleagues say about him-
Dr. Nass included.

If you haven't read her blog and the comments on it-
DU so as soon as you have a moment.

This thing stinks to high BFEE hell.

BHN
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
23. Who were the ABC sources feeding false info to ABC..They sound like the perps.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. www.glenngreenwald@salon.com had been working this story for years.. has best article now at site
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Check out the update from Dr. Nass on her blog about Duley.
The link is in my OP.

Also, bear in mind that on July 31- Emergent Biosolutions,
who Ivins was brought into to "fix" their vaccines,
pitched a bid for a national stockpile.

Wonder if Greenwald is aware of that connection?
If not, we need to have him look into those connections.

Starroute posted and EXCELLENT thread that relates to
that connection.

BHN
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
26. I hope this opens up
a can of worms and lead to more thorough investigations. Wonderful Keith Olbermann kicked off the suspicious circumstances of Ivins "suicide." Now, a lot of credible people and investigative reports will follow. I hope "this dog will hunt."
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
27. CNN's script readers were heavily spewing the vaccine motive this morning
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
29. "An Improbable Ending: Scientist Bruce Ivins Tried and Convicted by the Media
as Anthrax Letter perpetrator, after his suicide"
Now it turns out that Bruce was one of several scientists the justice department turned its spotlight on, after Hatfill succeeded in not only getting them to leave him alone, but also pay him for destroying his (admittedly tawdry) reputation. Bruce was a gentle guy, the opposite of Hatfill. While Hatfill stirred up a cauldron of controversy, held press conferences and initiated many legal efforts (I was subpoenaed as a witness for his case against the New York Times), Bruce got depressed. Then killed himself, apparently.

Bruce wasn't the anthrax perpetrator. First off, he had no motive. He didn't need to direct money toward the bioterrorism effort, or increase interest in it. He had a very solid job, since he was the army's top expert on anthrax vaccines. He didn't move on to a better job in industry, unlike many of his colleagues at Fort Detrick, after the anthrax letters made bioterrorism a profitable industry.

Second, he had no access to dry, powdered anthrax, according to Fort Detrick spokespersons, who said that only liquid anthrax was used at the Fort Detrick facility in animal aerosolization experiments. If he had been making dry anthrax, it would have been detectable: because anthrax forms a protective spore, the bacteria contaminate the facilities where they are produced. A wet swab can then be used to remove them from surfaces for culture and identification. So if Bruce had made enough anthrax (at least 10-20 grams) to fill the letters, it would have been detectable and the strain would have matched that of the letters. It would not take 7 years to perform the forensics for this experiment, though it could take 7 months. His colleagues would have noted something amiss: half an ounce of dried anthrax requires a lot of fermentation and processing to prepare.

So, we have what appears to be a deliberately botched investigation of the anthrax letters case, and it is all going to end with the suicide of an ill and depressed scientist who lacked a motive and probably lacked access to powdered anthrax.




Wow, she makes some strong points, the kind that should be getting made if any reporters in the mainstream media actually asked questions and investigated this story.



From another item in her blog, it looks like they are too busy twisting statements to fit their story line to actually do that:

My comments to a reporter were misinterpreted and I want to clarify them. The story says, "Ivins was a civilian working in the Army's main bioterrorism program. Nass said Ivins always complained about being treated poorly by some of the military personnel."

Bruce did not ever complain to me about being "treated poorly." I suggested to the reporter that Bruce might have been a relative outsider since he was a civilian in an army institution run and mostly staffed by military officers and soldiers. I had also discussed with Bruce the possibility a chronic illness might be exacerbated by his yearly booster vaccinations. But if you are an anthrax expert, and you need yearly vaccinations to continue in your profession, you don't have many options. I don't know whether he considered this a serious problem.


This makes me wonder how many other statements made by people have been morphed to fit the storyline.

Thanks for finding this site. Really stunning info on it.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. Kicking to recommend you tune in to the Dr. Nass blog daily-
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 10:03 PM by BeHereNow
It just keeps getting better.
http://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com /
We need to get this woman on the air with Bill Moyers.

Any one know how to make that happen?

BHN
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