Hey Pelosi! I'm pretty sure "Obstruction of Justice" is a crime!

[ck4829]

"Conrad Black was convicted of obstruction of justice in July, 2007 for removing 13 boxes containing financial records from his office in Toronto after it had been sealed by a court order, returning the boxes a few days later. Black claimed he had taken the boxes because they contained personal items."

"An insider trader instructed his banker in the Cayman Islands to shred records of his suspicious trades when he learned he was under investigation by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Unfortunately, this set up the banker for a charge of obstruction of justice, and the United States Department of Justice traded immunity for the obstruction charge in exchange for the banker's testimony about the trades he executed on behalf of the trader."

"President Richard Nixon was being investigated for obstruction of justice for his alleged role in the cover-up of the break-in at the Watergate hotel during his 1972 re-election campaign."

Let's see here:
Millions of deleted emails
Blocking testimony
Excessive usage of state secrets privilege

Maybe it is time to give impeachment a chance.

[Gman]

1. Maybe it's time to give this topic a break

since we're in the fight of our lives for this country. Impeachment ain't gonna happen. Give it up.

[ixion]

5. yep, we're in the fight of our lives for our country

and holding those accountable for the crimes they've committed against this nation and the rest of the world is the only place to start. Allowing them to set a precedent and walk away will mean simply that our fight has become more difficult and the vermin more entrenched, not vice versa.

[intheflow]

9. Sure, it's only the Constitution.

It's only the law. We should give up fighting for criminals to go to jail. Unless they're black and smoking a joint, then we should just incarcerate them all. :eyes:

[barbtries]

10. impeachment is the best way

to get our country back. i'll fight to the end.

[Independent_Liberal]

15. No, I'm not giving it a break. And no, I'm not giving up.

No matter how much you want me to give up, I never will.

[LWolf]

30. This IS the fight of our lives.

Elections happen with great regularity. We don't drop the fight because of them.

[Toucano]

2. Number of Democratic Senators: 49 (+2 Independents)

Number of votes required for conviction: 66

Chances of impeaching George W. Bush in the next 120 days: 0

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. You might recall that it was republicans who forced Nixon out under

threat of impeachment.

If we made it clear that impeachment was on the table, and the Bush and Cheney were going to drag their party down with them as their crimes were aired in congressional testimony, the republican would give us the other 15 necessary - just to protect their own seats (or asses, as it were).

Even if Pelosi et al have obstructed justice by refusing to investigate when there was still a non-election time frame, it is not too late to get the charges investigated and aired.

In the next election we do NOT want the republicans to be able to say "What crimes?"

[MonkeyFunk]

7. It would be worse if, in the next election

Republicans were able to say "But Bush was acquitted in the Senate", which is what would happen if he were impeached.

[polmaven]

12. That was back when Republicans

were Republicans. They used to have some integrity. With the neocons there now, there is not a chance in the world that he would be removed from office.

The Impeachment is one thing. That takes place in the House of Representatives. Conviction is another. It won't happen, and, personally, I would rather not put these two dangerous neocons under the impression that, because they were acquitted of the charge, they have been vindicated and all of their crimes are justified. That would make them even more dangerous...in or out of power, in my opinion.

[Toucano]

14. Bush has loyalty Nixon only dreamed about.

Republicans have control of virtually all mass media.

We have barely even been able to pass ordinary legislation. An impeachment conviction is a dream wrapped in a wish at this point, and if we can't convict, it backfires.

[Independent_Liberal]

16. Exactly, NCevilDUer.

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever be able to convince the naysayers of that. They want us to sit down, shut up and accept a dictatorship. Nobody will ever make me stop fighting no matter how hard they try to discourage me or how much they tell me I'm fighting for something futile.

[bdf]

28. I think you're underestimating the numbers

If impeachment proceedings happen they will be reported in the media. The media could ignore the pseudo-impeachment the other week but they won't ignore the real thing.

If the impeachment proceedings give details and proof of even a fraction of the crimes committed, that too will be reported. Many of those crimes would shock the majority of Republican voters; only the 20-percenters would stubbornly refuse to believe the evidence or claim that Dubya's crimes were somehow justified.

Any Republican in the senate who voted against conviction would face a big swing in support. The voters might not replace him with a Dem in an election but they sure as hell would vote for a different republican in a primary.

Once it gets past a certain point, even those senators who love the taste of Dubya's arse will turn against him to protect themselves.

[burythehatchet]

13. Number of Republick administrations that have committed treason since Eisenhower: Every one

Number of indicted and un-indicted felons that have returned to controls the levers of power in government: Too many to count

Chances of having a functioning government with the same criminals allowed to get away with their crimes again: 0

DO YOU FUCKING GET IT? :mad:

[Toucano]

17. You'll see a herd of unicorns walk on water before you see Bush impeached.

:mad:

DO YOU FUCKING GET IT?


Not gonna happen.


Move on.

[Independent_Liberal]

19. No, we're not gonna just "move on."

We're not going to sit back and watch idly as the Constitution is dismantled or a possible attack on Iran happens. We're going to keep screaming until our voices are heard. We're going to do that whether you like it or not.

[Toucano]

21. Go nuts. Enjoy your life without credibility.

Chase those windmills all you like.

Those of us who live in a reality based world will focus on achievable goals.

[Independent_Liberal]

22. I'm getting sick and tired of being told I'm divorced from reality.

I'm someone who choses not to remain silent while I'm aware of wrongdoing by the government. Silence = Betrayal and Complicity. Regardless of whether or not we can make something a reality, what matters is that we stood up to say we disapproved of what was going on at the time. If that makes me insane, then sanity is overrated.

[Independent_Liberal]

24. I removed the exclamation points from my post...

I didn't want to sound like I snapped at you.

[Toucano]

26. That's very nice of you.

I've been here long enough to not have too thin of a skin! :)

[Toucano]

25. Just do the math.

If you still think your screaming and shouting is accomplishing anything positive, by all means continue.

"...what matters is that we stood up to say we disapproved..."

To whom?

Is someone keeping track?

Is it going on your permanent record?


Every single member of this board is "on record" of disapproving of every single thing this administration has done since December 2000.

The reality is there is no longer time. The reality is that this Senate will never convict, regardless of evidence you present. The reality is THEY control public opinion. The reality is, you'll look like a fool.

The focus now MUST be the election and preventing it from being stolen again.

[Independent_Liberal]

27. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

The reality is there is no longer time. The reality is that this Senate will never convict, regardless of evidence you present. The reality is THEY control public opinion. The reality is, you'll look like a fool.

The focus now MUST be the election and preventing it from being stolen again.

Okay, I accept that these are your views and you've based them on what you've seen.

However, there have been some impeachments in the past that have taken place only within a matter of weeks. The House can start an impeachment inquiry to bring all the evidence out and get all the proper witnesses on public record and present the facts and documents to the public. I know you mention above, "Bush has loyalty Nixon only dreamed of," but a lot of Republicans during Watergate were pretty supportive of Nixon at first. John Dean mentioned in a recent article that Republican Cong. Chuck Wiggins who sat on the House Judiciary Committee was at first going to launch a big defense effort for Nixon on the floor of the House to make the Democrats look like fools, but when the tapes came out, Wiggins knew he could no longer defend Nixon without making an ass out of himself, and then he came out in support of impeachment. That just tells me that things aren't always what they appear. And I wouldn't say they "control public opinion." If they did, why are the approval ratings for Bush/Cheney and Congress where they are right now? And as for preventing the election from being stolen again, I don't see how there's anyway it could be prevented without the perpetrators of the last two being held accountable. That's why Cliff Arnebeck and the other Ohio election attorneys have filed a RICO claim against Rove and others to force the Justice Department and Chamber of Commerce to release information and bring the guilty players to trial. Watergate would've never played out the way it did without the threat of criminal charges. The indictments and Nixon being named an unindicted co-conspirator was also what forced the GOP's hand on impeachment.

Okay, that's just my perspective. As I said, you're entitled to your own views.

[CosmicMaskedAvenger]

3. I wish

Nancy could do something about this!!!

[Road Scholar]

4. He will still be guilty of certain criminal acts after the

swearing in in Jan. If we have a majority then, wont they (Bush and Cheny) still be guilty of certain crimes for which he can be tried in a criminal court? It looks to me that he shouldn't be able to totally escape accountability.:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

typo

[fascisthunter]

8. yes....

regardless, he and many others should be legally hounded for the rest of their lives.

[EFerrari]

18. He will not be tried here after he leaves office.

The Democrats will be trying to shore up their majority.

[Road Scholar]

29. Call me crazy but I think a good way to shore up their majority is

put those criminals behind bars. But that's just me.

[EFerrari]

31. I know. You'd think if nothing else, they'd do it to prevent

having to deal with recycled felons as they are right now.

[Maraya1969]

11. THANK YOU! eom

[truedelphi]

20. In a Banana Republic like the USA, obstruction of justice is not a crime

But just business as usual.

it certainly is not a crime that will be prosecuted any time soon.

[LVjinx]

23. Of course Nancy knows obstruction of justice is a crime. Now she's the one doing the obstructing.

Bush and Cheney need to face their crimes, unfortunately there are plenty of democrats doing obstruction of their own. Pelosi, I'm talking about you.