Anthrax suicide was legit, and NOT a BushCheney cover-up...

[Zenlitened]

I suspect -- I don't know for certain, of course.

LOS ANGELES - One of the nation's top biodefense researchers has died in Maryland from an apparent suicide, just as the Justice Department was about to file criminal charges against him in the anthrax mailing assaults of 2001 that killed five, the Los Angeles Times has learned.
Link: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/08/01/anthrax_suspect_dies_in_apparent_suicide/

Many DUers have assumed this is just another case of someone being suicided by the Bush-Cheney cabal, in order to silence him for keeps.

But I think they've got it backwards. I suspect BushCo actually did plan to prosecute him, in a very high-profile, public way... just in time for the run-up to Election Day. Then they could trumpet far and wide, for weeks on end:

"Lookit here, America! We caught the anthrax killer! We're keepin' America safe from terror terror terror!"

I don't think they wanted this guy dead at all, not yet. They wanted a perp to parade in front of the cameras, create a big spectacle, and turn the focus of the election back to national security.

'Cause they sure ain't gonna win it if the economy is the top election issue. They want -- they need -- American voters to be re-living 9/11 when it comes time to cast our votes in November. It's all they've got. Terra terra terra.

[ingac70]

1. The only people that got the anthrax letters...

were congressional Democrats and media outlets.

[Javaman]

12. And the only dems to receive those letters were the ones against the patriot act.

funny how that works, huh?

[Ian David]

2. I think the guy was a whistle-blower.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3714196&mesg_id=3714228

[Schema Thing]

3. what a truly shitty sentence in the article:

"Ivins's name had not been disclosed publicly as a suspect in the case, which disrupted mail service and Senate business three weeks after the 9/11 terrorist attacks."





No mention that it killed people and terrorized a nation.

[defendandprotect]

11. No -- but too often the CLOSING DOWN OF CONGRESS ....

right after 9/11 . . .

isn't given enough attention --- IMO.


which disrupted mail service and Senate business three weeks after the 9/11 terrorist attacks."

Even now, their mail is still being irradiated and it takes 3/6 weeks to reach them!!!

Quite a "disruption" --- !!!


This was post the 2000 steal and right after 9/11 --- so Congress had a bit on their minds

and I'm sure many Americans were trying to contact them.

[klyon]

34. You are correct

Congress was thrown out off their offices and Bush people went through everything, read all their computers and searched the personal stuff left behind.
And don't forget the chilling effect it had on our representatives, the Patriot Act passed. Terrorism no doubt.

[JohnyCanuck]

21. "No mention that it killed people and terrorized a nation"

nor, for that matter, that the anthrax laced letters were designed to look as if they came from fanatical Muslim extremists/terrorists and were, for the most part, initially assumed to have come from such. Good grief, that would also mean admitting the possibility that there were such things as false flag terror attacks.

[global1]

4. Not If This Guy Was A Patsy For *Co or Knew Something They Didn't Want.....

coming out before the election. You may be right - but to me it looks like just tying up some loose ends during the last 6 months of their reign - to cover their tracks.

[Ecumenist]

7. this is exactly what I thought when I first read it.

the fact that he "killed" himself doesn't diminish my skepticism. Just a bit too coincidental.

[TexasObserver]

5. Why do you state that as if it's fact, when you know it isn't?!

Your topic title is fraudulent. You have an opinion based upon nothing but believing the little info you know, all info released by the Bush administration. For you to swallow it hook, line and sinker is inexplicable.

[Zenlitened]

9. Um... didya read the very first sentence of my post? The sentence...

... where I made a point of saying I suspect that this is the case, that I don't know for certain?

Did you notice that many of the following sentences began with the words "I think..."?

Man, too many DUers can go from zero to stupid in no time flat. Critical thinking? Ha! I'd gladly settle for a bit more reading-comprehension now and then. :eyes:

[TexasObserver]

17. Still doesn't excuse this kind of titling. It's fraudulent.

It's dishonest, and you have to know that. You do it to attract traffic.

The "I think" goes in the title.

[Zenlitened]

28. .

Keep on goin' for the gold! :hi:

[tkmorris]

38. He's right, and you're not

Your post title makes a declarative statement. When viewing the board all one sees is the thread title, making the aforementioned statement. Obviously you are using it as a "hook", to get people to read the post, but that doesn't make it kosher.

FWIW, I think your opinion on this is completely unsupported by any rational examination of events. Perhaps the man did commit suicide, people do, but I don't see any reason in particular to believe that he did.

[whistle]

6. This was a hit by the original perpetrators and needs to be exposed

[defendandprotect]

8. That's true if Ivins didn't give them some assistance or KNOW something about

who did ---

[Zenlitened]

16. Good point, one that I should have made clear in the OP:

Whether Ivins did the deed(s) or not is a separate question, in many ways. It's entirely possible he was nothing more than a scapegoat, and simply wanted no part of the Propaganda Parade to make Terror! the main focus of the campaign.

[glowing]

10. Unless.. tinfoil backwards, he was going to testify against Bush and Cheney

and let the world know that he was told who to send the anthrax to.. seems a bit odd that this person would target the people he targeted... and that once the anthrax exposure occurred that the buildings were sealed, and information was missing...

Also, why did he stop? Did he all of a sudden have a change of heart? No, this is a cover-up. I don't think we have some rogue scientist that decided to do this all on his own.

[TZ]

19. A scientist was about to have his career and life ruined

You don't think someone would suicide instead of going to jail? I do.

[glowing]

27. Perhaps, but why would he target the people that he did..

The reporter who was working on 911 stuff.. After the FBI finished, his data, computer, and evidence was gone. That seems just a bit too convenient. I don't know. He could have been a rogue scientist.. but someone that high up was probably paid to do what they did. Only certain people in the country have the security clearances that they do to work with biological agents such as anthrax. He would have been thoroughly checked by agencies to make sure he wasn't a national threat.

[tuckessee]

13. The last thing the Bush/Cheney/Neocon/CIA cabal wanted was a trial about the anthrax letters. n/t

[Muttocracy]

18. A trial could be messy - a prime suspect killing himself, case close? much easier. nt

[screembloodymurder]

14. Are you fucking kidding me!

Did you read any of the posts on this?

[yardwork]

15. There have been so many "suicides" of microbiologists since 2001.

It just seems very very unusual.

[TZ]

20. Thats kind of an internet myth.

I know plenty of researchers..Some at USAMRIID past and present..and thats baloney.
As for this guy taking his life..considering he knew his career was over..I could very well see that happening.
Funny how everyone talks about microbiologists "suiciding" and yet, people in the field don't hear about it..Kind of reminds me of the meme about all the people that died while Clinton was in office..supposedly..

[yardwork]

29. Are you saying that the lists of recent suicides by microbiologists are lies?

Just because people aren't aware of them doesn't mean they didn't happen.

[Junkdrawer]

22. Anthrax, Saddam and ABC News

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3714643&mesg_id=3714643

[JackRiddler]

23. And you reach this immediate conclusion based on what inside knowledge? Or is it...

How you would prefer the world to work?

[Supersedeas]

24. Oh, I think you underestimate how badly they want the practices at Ft Detrick to remain secret

a public trial is not something that they would have wanted AT ALL.

If they had had real solid evidence against this guy, they would have pumped the Media with information long before any indictment.

That's not to suggested that he was 'suicided,' I just don't buy your theory that a highly touted public trial was in the works.

[Gold Metal Flake]

25. Daschell and Leahey were dosed to kill them or induce them to allow PATRIOT act to pass.

They were dosed on the orders of *co. The other doses were for cover. My theory. Anyways, this guy was involved and goes on trial and confirms that, or, he "commits suicide".

Place your bets.

[defendandprotect]

41. If any religious nutcases are reading this . . . I'd recommend to them

that if the Cheney/Bush WH comes calling for help with their criminal activites . . .

like stealing elections, poisoning people, etal --- understand that you become a danger

to them afterwards.

[Vanje]

44. Someone needed Dem Senators dead

to tip the balance of the senate back to the Republicans, after Jeffords defection from the GOP.

They meant to kill Daschle and Leahy.
They DID kill Wellstone about that same time.

[Malikshah]

26. Too many people have died conveniently, both here and in the UK

Your argument does not hold water in the face of too many suspicious deaths and other activities.

Add to that the machinations used in elections in the US from 2000 to the present day, trying to get Ashcroft to sign away more civil liberties while in a hospital bed, Cheney's Navy Seals as Iranian gimmick, the Yellowcake debacle, Valerie Plame issue...

Nope-- this death is suspicious and will unfortunately have to wait to be truly investigated until the next generation.

The logic used in the OP doesn't work.

Why is it that folks like to pooh pooh reality? Does it make them sleep better believing that their government won't have them blackbagged and/or done away with?

Let's talk about reality here, folks...

[burythehatchet]

30. Fail

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. "Lookit here! After 7 years we finally caught the Anthrax killer!... uh, he worked for me."

I'm skeptical.

[annabanana]

32. Zen... PLEASE read the Glen Greenwald piece in Salon...

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

There is much information available you (and all of us here) should know)

[Cleita]

33. I think he was suicided.

A trial would have exposed the Bush-Cheney cabal's complicity.

[Cheap_Trick]

35. wasn't the first guy to die

the one who took the pics of the drunken Bush twins?

[AntiFascist]

36. The really terrifying FACT about this case....

there are right-wing whackos in very sensitive, high-level positions who are capable of disrupting and terrorizing Congress.

[Twist_U_Up]

37. ha funny

dats a good one

[erpowers]

39. Similar Thoughts

I did not really think they were going to prosecute this person. I thought the Bush Administration would rush to say the case had been solved in order to take away the argument that the Bush Administration had not found the Anthrax attackers. It seems that in recent weeks that argument had been gaining grown so the timing of this makes me question things.

[defendandprotect]

40. And now we're seeing stuff like this . . . "case closed" . . . ???

Answers in anthrax case may have died with suicide By ADAM GELLER, AP National Writer
2 hours, 42 minutes ago

It's been nearly seven years, but folks in Oxford, Conn., still remember the workers in hazmat suits, scouring the pews of Immanuel Lutheran Church for unseen spores of anthrax.

They remember lining up to be tested for the toxin, and being afraid to open their mail. They remember 94-year-old Ottilie Lundgren — a church-going widow, long-retired legal secretary and a bioterrorist's most unlikely victim.

"Something like that you never really get over," Thomas Condon, a friend of Lundgren's, said Friday. "It always stays in your memory."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/anthrax_scientist_years_without_answers;_ylt=AuYfbMQD1j9IGrPRG9akUcSs0NUE

[Wizard777]

42. Except that Bush & Cheney have a long history of asking or ordering people to break the law.

Especially when the short cuts facilitate their agenda. I think the anthrax was what influenced the vote on the Iraq most of all. After being victims of a bio weapons attack. Wouldn't you want to strike out against bio/chem/nuke weapons? It wreaks of psy ops. This guy is right wing nut according to his letters to the editor. I think it's still up in the air.

[DearAbby]

43. Lookie here we caught the Anthrax mailer....

after 7 yrs ...we had another suspect, but he sued the shit out of us...so we had to go with patsy number two...and he was kookoo bananas crazy, and did we mention he was suicidal, we have a doctor to even say so...soon we may have pictures of him working in his basement lab counting spores....We did it we caught the Anthrax Mailer!!!

[upi402]

45. did they have a deck of cards for these evildoers too?

funny that it was dems, liberal/truth oriented, and anti-war folks that were targetted. funny.