Florida trying for two tiers of schools...public and unaccountable private religious schools.

[madfloridian]

And the private and parochial school tier will NOT be held accountable for the education they provide.

Several of us have written about this before, but the Florida ACLU has come out now with more on the lawsuit.

The public schools would be as now, accountable to the public who pays taxes to fund them. BUT, as the ACLU points out, it would also open up a new parallel system of "unaccountable private and parochial schools supported by publicly funded vouchers that operate without a state-approved curriculum, without certified teachers, without state standards for instructional materials and without any mandated student achievement."

Our tax money could go to private religious schools, and we would not be able to hold them accountable. The amendments are couched in confusing language that make them sound like a good thing....instead they will diminish the public school in this state. The vehicles they use will be Amendments 7 and 9 which are due to be on the November ballot.

There is now a lawsuit to prevent this from being on the November ballot.

ACLU Florida Report email today

7 & 9 in the Courts

Proposed constitutional amendments 7 and 9 were placed on the ballot by the Taxation and Budget Reform Commission (TBRC),the membership of which consisted mostly of lobbyists, former members of the Jeb Bush Administration and current staff members of Bush’s foundation. A lawsuit, filed in the Leon County Circuit Court in Tallahassee, challenges the TBRC actions as beyond the scope of their authority -- using the Taxation and Budget Reform Commission as a vehicle for ideological social policy objectives, as private school vouchers and government funding of religious organizations was an abuse of power.

The lawsuit, Ford v. Browning, was filed principally by the Florida Education Association (FEA), though the ACLU (both the Florida Affiliate and the National ACLU Program on Religion and Belief) are co-counsel along with other religious liberty and public education defenders. Final oral arguments on our motion for summary judgment will be heard on August 4th. However, we cannot rely on the courts. We must proceed to build a campaign on the assumption that proposed amendments 7 and 9 will appear on the November ballot.

There is much work to be done, and we hope you will join us in protecting our constitution from the attacks facing us on November 4th.

If this works here, it will assuredly be tried throughout the country.

Here is more about the lawsuit at the ACLU with links to follow up. The suit was filed June 13.

Lawsuit Aims To Remove Amendments 7 And 9 From Florida's November Ballot

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - A group of concerned organizations, including The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the ACLU of Florida, filed a lawsuit today in the Circuit Court of the Second Judicial Court in and for Leon County on behalf of a group of Floridians representing parents of public school students, teachers, administrators and concerned citizens. The goal of the lawsuit is to prevent Amendments 7 and 9 from reaching the November ballot.

"The TBRC abused its power and indulged in an ideological crusade," said Dr. Howard Simon, Executive Director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida. "Amending the Florida Constitution to require tax dollars to be spent on religious programs and to undermine essential funding to improve neighborhood public schools has nothing to do with tax or budget policy.

"Even worse, the Commission is dishonest about its radical proposals," Simon added. "They disguise government funding of church programs as addressing religious discrimination. They are not even honest enough to use the word ‘vouchers,' which would tell voters what this is really all about."

Plaintiffs in the case are Andy Ford, president of the Florida Education Association; Beverly Slough, president of the Florida School Boards Association; Joseph Joyner, president of the Florida Association of District School Superintendents; Fran Giblin, president of the Florida Association of School Administrators; Rabbi Merrill Shapiro; and Harry Parrott Jr., a retired Baptist minister.

Credit to the St. Pete Times columnist, Howard Troxler for being one of the few to cover this issue thoroughly.

A blatant attempt to mislead the voters

Floridians will have a lot of voting to do this fall. Besides choosing our politicians, we'll also have to decide nine proposed amendments to our state Constitution. Nine! That is a lot of constitution writing. We will hear about them all in time, but today let's focus on a couple that present some interesting questions on the front end.

Maybe you think expanding school vouchers is a fine idea. Lots of people do. Maybe you think it is a terrible idea. But before we even get to that debate, the first point is … Shouldn't the ballot actually SAY this is what we're voting on?

Yes, it should.

...."Amendment 7 would repeal the "Blaine amendment," an old part of the Constitution that prohibits the use of tax dollars in support of religious institutions.

Amendment 9 would reverse a court ruling saying that Florida has an "exclusive" duty to run public schools. That would seem to mean that the state could use vouchers to educate kids, too

I am finding more and more lately that the ACLU is fighting for us. Here is a link at which you can volunteer.

I have heard few Democrats here speak out about the fact that this will allow public money to go to private religious schools with no accountability. I fear many of them probably approve of it.

[spag68]

1. The really dumb thing

that people who support this system don't realize, is obvious to me. Some time soon a Muslim group will set up a madrassa, and apply for the vouchers. While it seems to me ok that Muslims set op schools, like the Catholics or any other private group, there is no way we as taxpayers should fund them in any way.

[madeline_con]

61. Did you know that madrassa means "school" in Arabic?

Maybe I misunderstood the connotation of your post, but a Muslim school that included prayer and teaching the QAu'ran would be no more dangerous than a Catholic or Jewish school, IMO.

Of course, taxpayers shouldn't have to fund ANY of them. I just hope you did'nt single out Muslims. It kind of reads that way.

[Malikshah]

64. First, spell madrasa correctly. Spelling it with two "s"s is a surefire

way to show that one doesn't have an iota of knowledge about the reality of what a madrasa is.

Secondly--we're living in a free society

Thirdly--get over the latent Islamophobia. It is so 2002

[madeline_con]

69. I happen to know Muslims who attended them.

The spelling was NOT the point.

I'm not the Islamaphobe. I was responding to someone who seemed to be.

Funny you corrected my spelling, but did not comprehend my post.

[Malikshah]

70. Did you read your post as a self-aware person? Read it as if you

are anyone other than its author...

The meaning is quite clear.

Love the little emoticons. The 21st century answer to profanity (i.e. profanity used when words fail a person).

[madeline_con]

71. I reread the post, and the meaning is quite clear.

I assured the poster that a Muslim school would not be a danger to the community, as they seemed to imply it might be. I was defending Islam.

Only someone who felt a Catholic or Jewish school posed a threat would interpret the post as you have.

As for the emoticon, rolling one's eyes is not profane. It signifies that the eye roller thinks the situation is a little crazy or annoying. Words seldom fail me.

[Sancho]

2. The devious plans have not stopped because Jeb is our of Tallahassee!

The legislature is trying to starve the public schools while Charlie is having fun on his state-funded "honeymoon" in Paris.
NEA has also filed a lawsuit: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_politics/2008/05/...

[bigmoon]

3. Only problem I have is accountability

No reason the state should not help poor parents who want to send their kids to private schools

[madfloridian]

6. No no no no. That is destroying our public schools.

I know how they are marketing it. It is shameless. There is a good education for the poor in public schools if they FUND public schools as they should.

This is sneak attack on public schools by the Republicans....and I fear many Democrats.

[bigmoon]

11. My public schools sucked

I hated the kids I went with.

Went to a private school for the last three years of high school and liked it.

[madfloridian]

13. Well, you didn't learn how to spell "to, too, two".....

You said:

"Went two a private school for the last three years of high school and liked it."

They failed you, my friend. My second graders could spell that correctly.

[bigmoon]

14. I went to public school for second grade

I guess they failed me

[madfloridian]

19. You really are being a wee bit obvious.....I mean come on.

[spag68]

16. obviously they didn't teach you to spell, very well

I suspect you should substitute too for two. Good public schools made this country a great place to learn, until the rethugs got to sow destruction in the schools.

[colinmom71]

51. Yeah, well I went to private religious schools through third grade....

And that last place was the Christian equivalent of a "madrasah". Abusive, controlling, and quite dismissive of the parents' concerns in regard to their children's education.

My mom finally pulled me out of the second private school I attended when they told her that they would be pushing me ahead to Fifth grade after Third grade if I attended that school the next year. When my mom said she didn't think I was socially mature enough to do so, she was essentially told that her thoughts and worries on the matter were irrelevant. They would push me ahead based on standardized tests that said I was beyond Fifth grade level and that my maturity level was irrelevant to the discussion. My mom promptly told them that this was the last straw and withdrew me from that school. There were numerous other issues that came into play, like the sadistic third grade teacher I had who should never have been left in charge of children and their education. But for mom, the grade skipping was the last thing she was willing to take from them...

There was also the private school my brother briefly attended. He only went to one year of kindergarten there, but my parents took him out when it was found that more than half the "teachers" were not at all certified by the state of Georgia nor did they even have college degrees of any sort! But this is what happens when there is no accountability for private schools.... Greater availability of government funding for such institutes will only result in more types of abuse as I've mentioned here.

[madeline_con]

63. Should taxpayers foot the bill is the point.

[madfloridian]

7. Actually a good education for poor AND rich in well funded public schools.

We should not be giving public tax money to religious schools.

What has happened to this country that religion has taken over so much that people think giving religious schools public money is ok.

No, it is not.

[LWolf]

33. Keep telling them.

[madfloridian]

34. How quickly people have become brainwashed about giving money to religious schools

They are defending it even here at DU.

[LWolf]

37. I've noticed that.

DU appears to me to be just as anti-public education as republicans, from my perspective.

Of course, admittedly, my perspective is that of a teacher, but still.

[madfloridian]

43. Now a new poster is accusing me of being anti-Catholic?

This is really weird.

[LWolf]

49. Yes.

What, exactly ARE democratic, and Democratic, values?

Standing up for public education is now "anti-religion" even according to democrats?

I feel like we're riding on new currents, with no foundation any longer.

[defendandprotect]

52. Have you noticed . . . a lot of DU'ers are Republicans . . .?

[Malikshah]

10. Accountability? Have you seen the grades for the charter schools in FL lately?

The FCAT grades for these charter "schools" are an abomination.

These voucher shams are taking taxpayer money to line the pockets of snake oil salesmen, charlatans, and miscreants.

And there's no accountability there--because they are a business (be they religious or otherwise)

Do a little research on the tax exempt status of the some of these "religious" properties and then see the relation to both business-related charter schools and others.

While one is on the accountability track--look into the dealings of the local and state political figures-- there is none.

In other words-- get off the "accountability" game unless one can be consistent across the board in a clear and effective manner.

Accountability is a rightwing red herring along the lines of the liberal media and Tax and Spend Democrats.

[Peregrine]

21. My charter got an A this year and a B the previous year

And charters are not recipients of vouchers. Anybody can attend for free, we are not allowed to pick who attends (first come, first serve).

We follow the same rules as public schools. We take the FCAT every year, we have to meet the same class size requirements, we follow the exact same curriculum standards... Our funding comes from the State, it does not come from the county property taxes like public schools. Our teachers have to be certified.

[donco6]

23. What's the name? eom

[Peregrine]

25. Four Corners Charter

K-8 school located in Davenport at the junction of Osceola, Polk, Lake, and Orange Counties. We are sort of unusual, even though we are located in Osceola County we can take students from the other counties. Most of our students come from Lake County.

We are predominantly hispanic (we are getting a growing English immigrant population). Most of the parents work in the service industry and work more than one job. Fights are rare.

[madfloridian]

46. But if a student does not meet standards, you kick him back to public school.

Right?

[madeline_con]

65. Sawgrass, an Academies of Excellence school in Brevard, was shut down.

[callous taoboy]

15. The poor cannot make up the difference. This is classic MEpublican con job.

[pattmarty]

32. No that's not the "only problem". AND the poor kids..........

.........won't be going to these schools either. What fucking planet did you drop from? My guess is you're a conservative troll who plays the "It'll help the poor" theme whenever they roll out "vouchers" or "private accounts" for Social Security, and "tax credits" so POOR people can purchase health insurance. To all of these; BAD FUCKING IDEAS!!!!!!!

[madeline_con]

62. It pulls kids out, instead of improving the school.

School improvement of failing schools should be the goal, not flight.

[madfloridian]

68. Exactly....hire good teachers, pay them well, fund a good curriculum.

Yanking kids out and putting them elsewhere is not to the benefit of public schools.

[madfloridian]

4. Be sure to read DUer seafan's work on this.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/seafan/2257

[mia]

5. K&R Thanks for posting this.

I'll be sending this along to some fellow public school teachers.

[madfloridian]

8. Thanks...

I am a very irate retired teacher who is stunned there is so little going on about this. Very little speaking out from people who should be vocal.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. I'm glad you're monitoring this.

[callous taoboy]

12. Americans United for the Sep. of Church and State is also watching closely-

A U is a damn good group, tireless in their efforts. I strongly urge all of you to become members.

http://www.au.org/site/PageServer

[madfloridian]

17. "Storm Clouds over the Sunshine State"....Americans United

From a journal by seafan...this article.

Storm Clouds over the Sunshine State

"Dade County, Fla., is home to almost 200 religious schools.

According to the Florida Department of Education’s data from the 2006-2007 school year, an array of denominations and faith perspectives is represented. Forty-five schools are affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church, but many other spiritual traditions answered the state roll call.

All Angels Academy is Episcopalian, Christ Fellowship Academy is Baptist, Clara Mohammed School of Miami is Islamic, Greater Miami Hebrew Academy is Jewish, World Mission of Jesus Christ Christian is non-denominational, New Testament Church of Transfiguration School is Pentecostal and Glory of God Christian School is affiliated with the Assemblies of God.

Some are well-established and fully accredited with a qualified teaching staff and a tradition of educational excellence. Others are small, poorly equipped and devoted to religious indoctrination, not academic accomplishment.

If former Gov. Jeb Bush and his allies have their way, however, all of these schools – and private academies like them around the state – will soon be eligible for massive new streams of public funding, courtesy of the state’s taxpayers."

[spag68]

18. By the way madflo

Are you not just really happy that the St. Pete newspaper slammed McSame today?

[madfloridian]

20. I loved it.

We need more like that.

[spag68]

22. I will be there the end of Aug.

Even if it is hot summer and hurricane season, I have to get a little time with my kid there.

[FloridaJudy]

24. "Florida - not as awful as you'd expect"

Should be our new state slogan. At least until after a few more years of Republican rule.

[Marrah_G]

31. You have me giggling with that one- and feeling guilty for finding it so funny!

[madfloridian]

39. Florida's previous slogan: "Florida, the rules are different here."

Really, that was our slogan in many ads across the country.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[madfloridian]

26. Bottom line: Take money from public schools to give to private religious schools...

and then how the hell do you fund the public schools whose funding has been depleted under the Bush regime?

Anyone care to answer on the demise of public schools?

[SoCalDem]

27. Vouchers are to Storefront Jesus schools, as

ducks are to water..

[madfloridian]

28. Be sure to read Storm over the Sunshine State. Link.

http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=cs_&page=NewsArticle&...

This was in Seafan's research on this, and it is quite a story.

[robcon]

29. The accountability of private schools is to the parents.

That's good enough for me. I went to private schools, sent my kids to (mostly) public schools, and I felt both types are accountable.

[madfloridian]

30. I don't want my tax money going to private religious schools. Bottom line.

Why doesn't that bother you?

I am having lots of trouble accepting how thoroughly the GOP mindset has permeated even DU.

Giving public money to private religious schools? NOT okay.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

41. I did not mention the word Catholic.

I don't want public money given to ANY religious school. I give you an A+ in misunderstanding.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

54. Oh . . . the old argument that public schools are "Protestant schools" . ..

and the Catholic bias against them ---

"No taxation without representation" ---

and that certainly means no religious schools ---

So -- the Catholic Church theo-cons are still teaching this garbage, eh?

There are no Protestant Bibles in public schools --- and what you're saying is you're

upset not about "religion" being in taught in schools, but the fear that it's not

YOUR religion.

Americans need to wake up to their state in Separation of Church & State and to the

disaster being pushed upon our nation by theo-con Catholic Evangelists ---

[defendandprotect]

53. ...and did you expect taxpayers to pay for them . . . ???

You want private schools -- fine --- YOU pay for them ---

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

36. Oh my oh my oh my....somebody's picked up on my post and hating on it.

I wonder which group that might be?

ACLU a hate group?

[madfloridian]

38. Welcome to DU, I guess. No, the ACLU is not like the KKK.

Just in your little small mind.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

45. I hope others pick up on the accusations you are posting.

And that they take it seriously.

[madfloridian]

47. Looks like you are gone, but your attacks against the aclu stay.

[MadHound]

48. As a credible historian I think that you're full of shit

Yes, one of my advanced degrees is in history, I'm a member of Phi Alpha Theta, so I would say that makes me a credible historian. And again, you're full of shit trying to link the ACLU, the NEA and the KKK together. Do you have any legit, peer reviewed sources that you'd care to share, or are you, as I suspect, pulling this one out of your ass?

[madfloridian]

50. Check out...

the profile. Unfortunately the ACLU is still under attack here at DU. Even AU is now.

[defendandprotect]

55. What absolute right-wing hateful nonsense . . . you object to the ACLU because

they uphold the Constitution and Separation of Church & State ---

In fact, the KKK had "close ties" to Christianity -- and their cross went everywhere

with them!

As with the Bush family, it is fascists who fear the ACLU ---

And, why, btw, would the VATICAN need "financial aid" . . . ???

Should Americans help pay off their huge debts over lawsuits for sexual abuse by their priests???

[callous taoboy]

57. Didn't ACLU recently defend a student who was told he could

not read an overtly religious poem he'd written to his classmates? I love the ACLU and have been a proud member since * was installed.

[callous taoboy]

56. Wow. You are so absolutely wrong I wouldn't even know where to start.

I doubt you are still here but you'd be freaking out if some of that money went to a private school with an overtly atheist bent, now wouldn't you.

[callous taoboy]

59. Oh I just saw my first tombstone. ROFL. It's been a giddy evening

after watching my liberal hate programs like NOW and Bill Moyers. Slowly justice is grinding these corrupt motherfuckers into ashes.

[madeline_con]

58. I know McLame supported vouchers in St. Pete today.

This is important stuff. It's a shame some poeple would be willing to pull kids out of some schools and send them to church school, instead of improving the public school!

[callous taoboy]

60. But tomorrow he'll be saying that public schools are the pride of our nation.

[madeline_con]

66. Right after they lead him by the hand to the podium.

Have you noticed how Cindy has to drag him up there all the time, and tell him to go ahead?

[callous taoboy]

67. No, when she is there all I see is a lot of expensive blonde hair.