Manson Follower Susan Atkins Has $1.4 Million Hospital Tab Since March

[CatWoman]

While many Americans with brain cancer may be largely left to fend for themselves financially in the face of million-dollar treatments, the $1.4 million in medical costs that convicted murderer and former Manson follower Susan Atkins has incurred since March is a cost entirely covered by the state of California.

It's a situation that may leave many wondering what kind of medical care prisoners should receive and whether taxpayers should be stuck with the bill.

Last week, the California Board of Parole denied a request for a court hearing for Atkins' release from prison. Atkins, who has a brain tumor, is paralyzed on the right side of her body and has had a leg amputated.

The debate over her release has spurred the question: Does arguably the nation's second most famous brain cancer sufferer -- behind Sen. Edward Kennedy -- also receive the second-best care in the nation?

"I dare say that apart from the president and the members of Congress, the people with the best health care in this country are inmates," said Dr. Joshua Atiba, the medical director and CEO of Newport Oncology and Healthcare, which delivers cancer treatment to inmates in prisons in California.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5420251&page=1

[Warpy]

1. Yet inmates have to be halfway to dead to get that care

since most people in the system assume they're trying to get a soft bed in the infirmary to shirk work or are simply attention seeking.

Yes, it's decent care. However, they need to get somebody to believe they're really sick, first.

[ronnykmarshall]

2. Oh dear.

[Imagevision]

3. California had the chance to fry them but no-oo, they had to change the laws.

[CatWoman]

4. be nice, IV

:spank:

[DesertFlower]

6. i have a question about that.

they got the death penalty -- then the it was repealed so they got life. why, when the death penalty came back were they not the first ones to be executed?

BTW. i'm anti death penalty. this is just a question.

[Dr.Phool]

8. The crime has to be committed after the new law takes affect.

There was a death penalty when they committed the crimes, but it was repealed as unconstitutional. Then commuted to life.

When the new law, that supposedly passed constitutional muster, was passed, it could only apply to crimes committed after it went into effect.

[DesertFlower]

10. thank you. nt

[Bluebear]

22. "Fry them" - how very progressive a sentiment.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. Also physically interesting, to fry a person in a gas chamber...

:rofl:

[Clovis Sangrail]

5. glad to hear it

I hope all the people who were so adamant about no furlough for Atkins are really upset over this.
:rofl:

[Lil Missy]

23. Naw, they thought she was dying on a cold bench in a prison cell, and thought she would suffer.

She's been in a nice comfy bed at a local hospital since March, and will die there.

She has brain cancer, is barely coherent, has one leg, and is partially paralyzed. It was her family that sought to bring her home for her last few breaths, not her.

Yeah, she is a major danger to society. :eyes:

[Skittles]

35. and the compassion would have been for her family, not her n/t

[IndianaJones]

7. hopefully it hurts really bad. nt.

[MonkeyFunk]

26. It probably does

so you can go masturbate now.

[alcibiades_mystery]

34. ROFL

Perfect response.

:thumbsup:

The torture fetishists positively foam at the mouth at the very mention of Atkins' name.

[MonkeyFunk]

38. They sure do

I just can't understand the minds of those who actually take JOY in the suffering of others, no matter who they are or what they've done.

[Greyhound]

9. In taking a person's freedom from them, society must also accept responsibility

for their well-being. To do otherwise exposes us as an illegitimate authority.

[Obamanaut]

25. Society did not TAKE her freedom; she forfeited it when she

decided to transgress the laws of society.

[bunnies]

31. What a bunch of bullshit.

We dont take care of the law abiding people in this country and youre worried about how NOT taking care of murderers reflects upon us?! Please.

She's not an innocent captive held against her will. She's a murderer paying for her crime. Yeah. She should get her health care. But ONLY after the rest of us. :nuke:

[Dreamer Tatum]

32. I would say it was just poorly worded

When you lose your rights as a citizen, you gain rights as a prisoner in the State's custody.
The state sentenced her to life, and has (properly) seen fit to deny her parole. The state
therefore bears the cost of her healthcare until she expires.

That's the implicit deal, like it or not. I think she and her ilk should be put to death, but
that isn't important right now.

[bunnies]

36. You know what Im saying though... right?

Myself... I need tendon surgery on my right arm. It neither bends nor straightens. I could have prevented it from getting this bad but never had the money to see a doctor. No insurance.

Yet... if I go out and kill someone, I could have my arm taken care of. Oh and that cavity I have... that would be all set too. 5 years in prison and I could have everything that ails me fixed right up. What the hell kind of crap is *that*?!

[Dreamer Tatum]

39. I see your point

...but I would rather be free needing a root canal than in the joint with a nice new porcelain crown.

It's a cruel irony, for sure.

[bunnies]

41. Yeah. The dental thing I'll concede.

But after living with a 10% range of motion and an intense amount of pain in my right arm for more than 3 years....

What price would I be willing to pay to be able to touch my own face? Or sleep through the night? Just about anything.

Cruel indeed.

[treestar]

42. Probably not true, though

The health care provided to prisoners is not optimal. Your problem could be not considered serious enough to do anything about if you were in prison.

Really, we have prisoners, we can't just let them have cancer untreated, no matter what they've done. Granted that should be true of noncriminals. But in the meantime, we're not going to sit there while a prisoner has cancer and barbarically let them die with zero treatment, if just for the comfort of the prison guards. If she wanted to get out to go to some clinic of high reputation, where she'd have a chance of survival, it'd be a different story.

Besides, she's going to die anyway. And in much greater pain than she would have in the gas chamber. Really, this is a non-issue.

[bunnies]

45. If I had cancer...

It would go untreated. And I havent committed any crime. People barbarically die without treatment every day. Prisoners should not be the first ones cared for.

This isnt personal against her. I think they should have let her out. Its just my general view on the topic. I used to be sympathetic... but now I'm just pissed off.

[treestar]

46. I don't think it would go untreated

In this society, even charity would cover it, let alone doctors would want to treat it just for the experience, so I wouldn't fear cancer on that level. If you can't afford health insurance, Medicaid would cover you - it might not be the best, but at least should be as well as what prisoners would get.

I have minimal coverage - for disasters only - like major accidents or cancer. But in this country, we are humane enough not to turn away someone with such a serious illness. Repukes notwithstanding. They'd do it, but that's why they whine about "socialism."

[pitohui]

49. well you are absolutely wrong, you will go untreated

In this society, even charity would cover it, let alone doctors would want to treat it just for the experience, so I wouldn't fear cancer on that level. If you can't afford health insurance, Medicaid would cover you - it might not be the best, but at least should be as well as what prisoners would get.

there is no requirement to treat anyone under medicare age except to stabilize them if they don't have insurance

in the 70s i knew 2 men with brain tumors, 1 received no treatment, the other was treated by charity hospital and then hounded for the money until the day he died because he was discovered to be working

in the 90s a man in my neighborhood w. his own business and therefore no ability to get health insurance got brain cancer in his 30s, he's dead now

today there are more, not fewer, people who lack insurance and hence putting out begging cups to get pennies for treatment when they develop cancer

next question?

cancer is not some rare disease where a doctor will line up to treat you for free so he can get a write up in the medical journal

if you can afford it, get proper insurance, otherwise you are going to be in for a real bad surprise one day

[awoke_in_2003]

54. "we are humane enough not to turn away someone "

You are kidding, right? Medicine is big business now, and a profit must be made. If you are uninsured, you are fucked. And if you are insured, by your carrier doesn't think it is worth the cost, you're fucked.

[Greyhound]

40. I'm not worried about her health at all. I am worried that we have lost sight of the fact

that the stated goal of the prison system is rehabilitation, not vengeance. That is why the families of victims have no standing in court unless they were witness to the crime, and even then, they are only allowed to testify as to what they witnessed and are subject to cross-examination by the attorneys for the defense.

There is no element of "getting even" built into the system, it is the dispassionate meting out of what we define as justice. There is no such thing as paying for her crime, that is not the purpose, if it were she would have to spend the rest of her life in the service of the families of her victims. Burglars would have to work for restitution of their victims as would embezzlers and the officers of bankrupt companies, etc.

She took the lives of others and was removed, in this case permanently, from our society. In doing that, we accept the responsibility for the care of that prisoner.

The fact that we tolerate the deplorable lack of national health care here is irrelevant in this case.

[bunnies]

44. Its not irrelevant to me. Not at all.

And its not about getting even. I simply do not think that the worst of our society should be the ones getting cared for while millions of Americans who play by the rules are getting shafted.

I cant bring myself to feel bad about the lack of wonderful health care in prison while those same millions of Americans get nothing at all. My tax dollars pay for health care for murderers. Meanwhile I cant afford to get the care I need. Why all the emphasis on the prisoners over regular people?

I see these issues as two sides of the same completely effed up coin. Im sorry. I know its not a very liberal point of view. But dammit... I want the regular people taken care of FIRST. Dont want shitty prison health care? Dont go to prison. Its really that simple. But shitty prison health care is better than nothing.

[Greyhound]

52. I see ,and agree with your point. We absolutely must have universal health care and

the fact that we don't is reprehensible, but that doesn't mean it should be denied to others. Denying her care would mean we also have to deny it the woman that is serving 25 years because her boyfriend stashed his coke in her apartment too.

I'm not ready to subject her to even more injustice, are you?

[Demobrat]

11. Makes me wonder why she wanted to get out.

On the outside she'd be just another uninsurerd poor person with a pre-existing condition.

[depakid]

16. Her husband is a lawyer- and would have paid for her hospice care

[BrotherBuzz]

18. She has had no say in this mess

She's in a coma so she isn't doing much talking. It was her family that was speaking for her. Her family was willing to cover her medical cost until she dies. Her family is the party that is suffering at this moment.

[kestrel91316]

12. Well, if the powers that be wanna keep that dying woman locked

up, and she isn't on death row to be executed, then they can damned well pay for adequate medical care for her.

They made their bed, now they can lie in it. They chose not to let her go just a week or so ago.

[H2O Man]

13. The quality of medical care

in most US prisons is dismal. Government officiala who want to score cheap points will raise hell about it from time to time, as far as being "too expensive." But medical care for those incarcerated from county jail to state prison is very poor, indeed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. I know a guy who was in for DUI

and ended up having his finger amputated after gangrene set in because he got no medical care in jail for the injury he received in the wreck that led to his arrest. Almost lost his entire hand.

I am all in favor of penalizing drunk drivers but it is inhumane to refuse medical care.

[pitohui]

50. yeah, there's something weird about this whole story, care is almost nonexistent for most

it seems like they pick and choose a high profile person to give all this care to, as cover up for the fact that most prisoners are not receiving care

who are they fooling with this charade?

care for prisoners is shitty, just like health care for virtually everyone else in this sick society

[bunnies]

37. Dismal care is better than no care at all.

Which is what I and millions of other people get. :grr:

[pitohui]

51. "no care at all" is what most prisoners get

there's more to this story

we're being given a sideshow here in my humble view

most prisoners are told they are malingering if they ask for care

poor people -- and most prisoners have nothing financially -- are not getting treated inside or out

there's a reason that cancer patients w.out insurance don't go rob banks to get all this wonderful free care given to prisoners -- it's because it don't exist!

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Wow one of the worst lies I have seen in a long time

Prisoners don't get good health care. Don't ask me how I know. I will just say I know someone who is in prison and the health care is just appalling. Inhumane is more like it.

[Clovis Sangrail]

15. I think as some point

health issues get so far beyond the capability of the prison that they have to be cared for outside the institution... at which point the quality of care goes up drastically.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Anything is better than the care they get from the prison

The person I know who is in prison has to pay to see a nurse practitioner if he is sick. No money, no nurse. Then the nurse decides if he needs to see a doctor. Again, no money, no doctor. No matter how sick you are.

[treestar]

43. In my state, it has become a major scandal

One guy was shot up with dirty needles and got hepatitis.

[Hekate]

20. Yet somehow people locked up for lesser crimes can die for lack of medical attention....

The California prison and county jail systems are not a good place to receive timely or quality medical treatment.

As for Susan Atkins, I am not sure why a dying woman is getting heroic medical treatment (which is what $1.4 million would buy you) when hospice care would seem to be far more appropriate. Unless they're afraid that lawyer she married might sue the bejesus out of them.

Hekate

[Lil Missy]

21. I don't know what to say, without getting flamed.

It was a horrible crime, and she deserved incarceration and suffering.

But most murderers, even violent ones, get 12 years, to 20 years tops, and get paroled. She served 40 years as a model prisoner. Her parole denials had a lot more to do with politics than the merits of her eligibility.

:hide:

[Vickers]

24. That's like 0.0000000007% of CA's annual GSP

Just to keep things in perspective.

:eyes:

[trumad]

27. "Does arguably the nation's second most famous brain cancer sufferer"

What a stupid question in the story..... I could walk up to 50 people on the street and they wouldn't have a clue who Susan Atkins is....

[Dorian Gray]

28. This quote:

"It's a situation that may leave many wondering what kind of medical care prisoners should receive and whether taxpayers should be stuck with the bill. "

It does? It seems obvious to me that they should be provided medical care while in prison.

[Lil Missy]

29. Well, of course prisoners should receive medical care.

What gripes my ass is that some people wish to pick and choose which prisoners "should" get medical care, and which ones who "should not".

The issue here is not that prisoners get medical care. The issue is that many poor and uninsured people in this country cannot get medical care. In the supposed richest nation in the free world!

And that's a fucking crime as far as I'm concerned.

[Lil Missy]

30. ......

[Overseas]

47. If we had national health insurance we wouldn't need to resent those who get free care.

Sure we who can be bankrupted by medical expenses would be jealous of prisoners who get coverage.

If we had humane coverage for all Americans like most other industrialized nations, we wouldn't need to have these kind of gross discussions-- like hey, they should have released her so the taxpayers could save money...

[Lil Missy]

53. It is indeed disgraceful that so many Americans cannot get decent medical coverage.

People seem to think she should spend her dying days in a prison bed, mostly for reasons of revenge. She's in a hospital in a comfy bed.

And, sorry to blow some minds, but even if she did get released to her family, she'd probably be covered by Medi-Cal.

[Garbo 2004]

48. Dr Atiba omits that Ca prison healthcare system so bad, it's been placed under Fed receivership

by Federal court which found the State was violating 8th Amendment of Constitution against cruel & unusual punishment.

http://www.cprinc.org/about.htm

I seriously doubt that CA prisoners are receiving Cheney care, as Dr. Atiba alleges. Certainly he's not unfamiliar with the fact that the state prisons healthcare system was found to be in violation of the Constitution and placed under receivership. Evidently he's been part of the high cost/substandard care system that's been under fire which might perhaps help to explain his bizarre statement. There is plenty of evidence to put the lie to Atiba's statement.