Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"Ich bin ein Amerikaner"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:01 PM
Original message
"Ich bin ein Amerikaner"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-kaplan/iich-bin-ein...


"The world is waiting to love America again" ran the title of a recent London Observer editorial anticipating Barack Obama's visit to Europe.

Love may be too strong a word to describe the world's feelings for America when George W. Bush was first sworn in as president, but not by much. It's surprising, but irrefutable, to look back at the numbers he inherited. Polls taken in 1999 and 2000 show impressive majorities of people in nations all around the world holding favorable views of the U.S. In the immediate aftermath 9/11, when headlines declared "We Are All Americans" in many languages, those numbers went even higher.

But today, love is not much in the air. As the Pew Global Attitudes Project put it, "Since 2002... the image of the United States has declined in most parts of the world. Favorable ratings of America are lower in 26 of 33 countries for which trends are available."

Some examples: In Germany, our favorability has fallen from 78 percent, when Bush was inaugurated, to 30 percent in 2007; in Britain, from 83 to 51; in Slovakia, from 74 to 41; in Argentina, from 50 to 16; in Turkey, from 52 to 9; in Indonesia, from 75 to 29.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. We're Amerotrash. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. "We"?.....I don't agree to that one. n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes we
georgie was doing EVERYTHING in our name. Just now you may understand how the Germans felt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Sorry, I don't count myself in. Perceptions don't necessarily
equate with reality. And yes, I HAVE considered the Nazi Germany analogy, but I don't find it particularly apt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Neither did the Germans
Edited on Wed Jul-23-08 08:16 PM by seemslikeadream
It took awhile


4 million Iraqi refugees

150,000 dead and counting



Genocide by design?

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/56124 /

Is the United States Killing 10,000 Iraqis Every Month? Or Is It More?

By Michael Schwartz
<http://www.afterdowningstreet.org >.
Posted July 6, 2007

300 Iraqis killed by Americans each day sounds like an impossible figure, but a close look at the reported numbers of violent deaths and rate of armed patrols makes it all too likely.

A state-of-the-art research study published in October 12, 2006 issue of The Lancet (the most prestigious British medical journal) concluded that -- as of a year ago -- 600,000 Iraqis had died violently due to the war in Iraq. That is, the Iraqi death rate for the first 39 months of the war was just about 15,000 per month.

That wasn't the worst of it, because the death rate was increasing precipitously, and during the first half of 2006 the monthly rate was approximately 30,000 per month, a rate that no doubt has increased further during the ferocious fighting associated with the current American surge.

The U.S. and British governments quickly dismissed these results as "methodologically flawed," even though the researchers used standard procedures for measuring mortality in war and disaster zones. (They visited a random set of homes and asked the residents if anyone in their household had died in the last few years, recording the details, and inspecting death certificates in the vast majority of cases.) The two belligerent governments offered no concrete reasons for rejecting the study's findings, and they ignored the fact that they had sponsored identical studies (conducted by some of the same researchers) in other disaster areas, including Darfur and Kosovo. The reasons for this rejection were, however, clear enough: the results were simply too devastating for the culpable governments to acknowledge. (Secretly the British government later admitted that it was "a tried and tested way to measuring mortality in conflict zones"; but it has never publicly admitted its validity).

Reputable researchers have accepted the Lancet study's results as valid with virtually no dissent. Juan Cole, the most visible American Middle East scholar, summarized it in a particularly vivid comment: "the US misadventure in Iraq is responsible for setting off the killing of twice as many civilians as Saddam managed to polish off in 25 years."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. A difference....
We Americans, on this board, are not choosing to look the other way. The Jews being killed and disappeared in Germany were often NEIGHBORS of the ordinary Germans.

We are actively opposing this administration and are openly appalled at what we see happening in Irag. We represent 48% of the electorate in the last election and the majority in the 2000 election.

I don't hate myself or hold myself accountable for this administration. You are free to have your own opinion about yourselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. It is not a matter of just looking the other way
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. You must work to make georgie and dickie accountable

if they are not we all will hold the shame
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I'm doing that. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChazII Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. As Aunt Eller in the play
Oklahoma said, "I ain't sayin' I'm better than anybody else .... but I'll be dang if I ain' just as good."' (Cowboys and the Farmer should be friends song)

I do know that I 'ain't' trash no matter what is in the White House.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Did you see these?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. VIELEN VIELEN DANK malaise
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Too good
Can't wait for the speech tomorrow. Will watch the German channel after KO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. Here are some other pics
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-33614.htm...

I'd like to see Obama in a photo with Kurt Beck, chairman of the SPD, who has taken the very unusual step of getting involved in US politics by endorsing Obama.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Beck
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. It hopefully will be nice to travel abroad again as an American....
and to hit my London haunts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. bring lots of money
Bushco has turned the American dollar into a joke
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. After we IMPEACH George Bush and send him to The Hague in chains
foreigners who have been boycotting America in every way will come
flocking to take advantage of our weak dollar, see our sights,
and buy us beer.

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. CHAINS!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. This is true...
as long as you're not right-wing fundies, we'll even send care packets to Amerika.

Ich bin ein Hamburger with dual citizenship and know whereof I speak :9
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. "Ich bin ein Hamburger"
Yeah, well I wish I were an Oscar Myer weiner :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. don't make the same mistake JFK did
The correct German would be... Ich bin Amerikaner.

"Ich bin ein Berliner" is technically saying "I am a jelly donut". Of course Germans understood what he meant and it is a fine line in translation... to add or eliminate an article can change the meaning of an entire sentence. I don't know if there is a thing in Germany called an Amerikaner, but it wouldn't be pretty if an Amerikaner was a type of toilet or meat-burger.

:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. LOL! Amerikaner was a type of meat-burger. I don't know, that could be more accurate than you think.
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. I haven't seen that in Germany, but there is such a thing in Belgium
My friends there often have "un amricain" for lunch--essentially a piece of French
bread, sliced throuogh the middle, and filled with raw ground beef and chopped onions
in the middle. Not my kind of thing, but that's what it's called there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. That sounds awful.
It does remind me of an office party where this guy who claimed he and his wife were vegetarians parked himself in front of the steak tartar at the buffet and just inhaled a fairly large bowl of it in about 3 minutes.

I have a feeling his wife was more of a vegetarian than he was. :rofl:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. If that were all the animal kingdom had to offer, I'd be a vegetarian, too!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Gross... I don't think I'd ever eat raw meat off a buffet bar.
:scared:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I am a jelly donut
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I have come to learn about the Polish people's lust.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,912052...

The problem was that the President's message had been badly mangled by Steven Seymour, a freelance interpreter from New York City, hired by the State Department at $150 a day for the Polish leg of Carter's trip. When Carter said he had come to learn about the Polish people's desires for the future, the translator used a Polish word meaning sexual desire. When the President said that he had left the U.S. that morning, the interpreter used a word meaning that he had abandoned the U.S. forever. Carter's praise of the Poles' much revered Constitution of May 3,1791, came across as if he were holding it up to ridicule. Seymour even substituted a few Russian words for Polish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. JFK got it right.
Ein Berliner can mean either someone from Berlin or (in northern Germany) a donut. SLAD in the Op is correct in saying Ich bin ein Amerikaner.


This idea that the "ein" has to be dropped is just nonsense. Take it from a professional writer/translator.

Or not :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Ummm, OK, not! LOL
I live in the Dsseldorf area, my wife is German with a college degree, we have always
spoken German to each other (34 years together now) and we both agree that the "ein" is
incorrect usage when referring to a person. It may get used incorrectly as a regional
difference, just like they confuse "mich" and "mir" in the Rurhgebiet. People say "ain't"
all the time, too. We all know what it means. It still isn't formal English. In formal
German, "ich bin Hamburger" means you're someone from the Hamburg (oder Umgebung), and
"ich bin ein Hamburger" means you accompany special sauce, lettuce, cheese, onions and
pickles on that sesame seed bun.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. Mensch, you both agree that the common usage of "ein"
is incorrect? DFW, get outta here

(Ihr habt nicht mehr alle Tassen im Schrank, wie?)

Usually, you'd say "Ich bin aus Hamburg oder Berlin oder Frankfurt," instead of calling yourself a Frankfurter or other edible, that much is true.

Btw. to call a boulette (meat patty) a "hamburger" is Americanized German, which my more purist family members deplore, lol.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. hmmm


"Usually, you'd say "Ich bin aus Hamburg oder Berlin oder Frankfurt,""

It's an entirely different sentence. One is to say "i am from New York", the other says "i am a New Yorker". I've only taken college German and never been to Germany. But 3 of my 4 German Professors were native speakers from Germany and they all agreed it was sloppy at best for JFK to have included the 'ein'. The 4th Professor was not a native speaker (fluent of course), so he deferred judgement to the other 3.

It's anecdotal, i know. But what can i say? I believed them.

:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Well, I'm a native German
who works as a writer, translator, editor and researcher.

To say "Ich bin ein Berliner" is correct.

To say "Ich bin Berliner" is wrong, and you would never hear anyone from Berlin say that.

However, "ich bin Amerikaner," is acceptable lingo. Most commonly you'd say "ich bin ein Amerikaner", though.

Common usage is the main point here. All languages fluctuate and grow over the course of time.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Stattgegeben on the hamburgers as food
Sonst, alle Tassen sind scheinbar doch im Schrank. Vielleicht sollte ich
mehr Zeit mit Kneipenbesuchern in Charlottenburg verbringen als mit Lehrern
und Akademikern in NRW, aber die Frage ist mir bis jetzt so wie so nicht zu
Besessenheit geworden. Ich bleibe bei meiner Aussage, eure Ehre.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Jelly doughnut urban legend
According to this, you are both wrong.

The indefinite article ein can be and often is omitted when speaking of an individual's profession or residence but is necessary when speaking in a figurative sense as Kennedy did. Since the president was not literally from Berlin but only declaring his solidarity with its citizens, "Ich bin Berliner" would not have been correct.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Wikipedia?
Real life trumps some website for me, but jedem das Seine, as they say.

I'll take my 30 years of living in Germany married to a German over
a site that can (correct me if I'm wrong here) is easily modified.
I get my linguistics from Germans, not from Wikipedia, and will
continue to do so as long as I live there.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Check the references.
So, you disagree with Merriam-Webster:

"The urban legend is that the rousing line "Ich bin ein Berliner," which was intended to mean "I am a Berliner" and to be a message of support and solidarity with the people of Berlin, who had recently seen the construction of the Berlin Wall, actually meant in German "I am a jelly doughnut." In fact, the myth is just that, a myth, and the sentence was quite correct as spoken."


. . . and, Navigating a new Era, by Scott Erb Navigating+a+New+Era%22&sig=hLx6w6Kxp5-8s2-YNKmIBgnZ1II" target="_blank">http://books.google.com/books?id=yb2vMKlTnGEC&pg=PA52&v... :

"Kennedy is often chided for his grammar, with the myth being that he should have

left out the indefinite article "ein," making it sound like he was calling himself

a Berliner pastry, or a jelly donut. In fact, Kennedy's grammar was correct. In

German, to express solidarity with a group one must use the indefinite article; if

Kennedy had left it out he would be saying he was literally a native of Berlin.

See Eichhoff, Jrgen (1993). "'Ich bin ein Berliner': A History and Linguistic

Clarification". Monatshefte fr den deutschen Unterricht, deutsche Sprache und

Kultur"


There seems to be controversy among people knowledgeable about German grammar. On commenter replied:

"The equivalent, it appears to me, would be someone saying, "I am Danish" in support of the Danish people, who would understand it in this way, while at the same time some U.S. "wise guy" might also respond, "Oh, so this guy's Danish, is he? What kind - fruit- or cheese-filled?""

I don't speak much German, but I click very well. As you say, to each his own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. "Ich bin ein Berliner" means just what Kennedy meant - "I am a Berliner"
Edited on Thu Jul-24-08 08:10 AM by MinM
Kennedy didn't say he was a donut! "Ich bin ein Berliner" means just what Kennedy meant - "I am a Berliner"
I love how these CIA-spread myths end up as the gospel truth, when they are nothing of the sort. Even Keith Olbermann fell for this one.

No, Kennedy did not say he was a donut.

He said, "Ich bin ein Berliner." And if you look up Berliner in a German dictionary, you will find that while donut is one meaning, the other meaning, the one Kennedy was obviously saying, is this:

"to be born in Berlin; to be a native Berliner; to be Berlin-born"


I am never surprised to hear the ignorant say Kennedy said this "wrong," when he didn't. But my heart sank when good ol' Keith Olbermann fell for the disinformation. Wow. I guess if a few people say it, it's suddenly true, eh?

Will all of you reading this please help spread the TRUTH about what Kennedy said? No doubt this will come up in the next few days as Obama prepares his own version of such a speech...
http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com/2008/07/kennedy...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


JFK went on to Ireland:

NPR: Here and Now: A Kennedy's Journey Home
Story aired: Friday, December 29, 2006

The Kennedy Library launched this year a new exhibit commemorating President John F. Kennedy's journey home to Ireland in 1963.

After President Kennedy's historic speech at the Berlin Wall on June 26, 1963, he made a trip to Dublin, the land his great grandparents fled during the potato famine in the 19th century.

The exhibit, "A Journey Home," highlights this personal time for the president. And now, newly de-classified documents reveal that Kennedy was the object of death threats during that trip to Ireland.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. k&r! nt
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Riddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. So what? This piss-head is someone they might like to have a beer with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
34. Some of them might even be starting to see through that one, too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
25. Nope the globe is in big ass trouble and will go to "whatever shelter in a storm" , mho.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinymontgomery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
30. Don't forget about Poland
Don't forget about Poland
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Aug 02nd 2014, 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC