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Despite all the promises...no manual recount in close elections in Florida.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:28 PM
Original message
Despite all the promises...no manual recount in close elections in Florida.
You just thought you heard it was going to happen. See, things are not always as they seem. Not at all. There will only be some very limited recounts...no real complete recounts at all.

Amazing how they made you think that would happen. :shrug:

You know how they rammed the early Florida primary bill through..saying it included a paper trail...why have a paper trail if you don't get to recount? Wasn't the part of the deal? I guess not.

Steve Geller: "In addition, while our amendments failed, we as Democrats voted for the final product. The legislation we supported finally moved our state from the punch lines into the headlines with regard to election reform, including the creation of a verifiable paper trail, a change long overdue. A verifiable paper trail was one of our Caucus priorities and important to many members of Congress as well."


No manual recount except in very special circumstances. We got snookered.

No Manual Recount In Close Elections

"There is not such a thing as a manual recount in Florida," said Florida Secretary of State Kurt Browning. "It is very dangerous to tell candidates that, yes, the law has a section that says 'manual recount' but we're not going to look at those ballots."

The reason: Despite pleas from Browning, lawmakers have not authorized a full manual recount of all ballots in close elections.


Instead, canvassing boards in each of Florida's 67 counties will only manually count the ballots that were not tabulated by machines that read marked-in bubbles or connected lines.


Wait until you hear how they justify the lack of a recount...it would show we did not trust the new optical machines and wouldn't that be a real shame. :eyes:

But some elections officials say there is not enough time to do a full manual recount in large counties like Miami-Dade, where more than 770,000 voters went to the polls in the 2004 presidential election. State law only allows 14 days after the election to certify the results. And they say authorizing a full manual recount is akin to admitting a lack of faith in optical scan voting machines that have cost tens of millions of dollars to buy and test in the past 18 months.

"We get them and immediately turn around and say, 'If we have a close election, we don't trust those machines," said Ron Labasky, a longtime lawyer for the Florida State Association of Supervisors of Elections. "If you felt that way, then you better count everything by hand."


Yay, Labasky, best suggestion yet.

Bless Ion Sancho...he has fought hard for fair elections here. His reply to this idiocy about no manual recounts was "voters are "stunned" when told there will be no manual recount of all ballots in a close election. We have failed our citizens," said Sancho.

He argued that "lawmakers should allow more time for a full manual recount in close elections or at least a scientifically sound sampling to verify the votes were counted correctly."

We got snookered.







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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. The same thing has been happenng throughout the country.
Read about san diego in 2006. lawsuits went bakc and forth, until, finally. NO recount, which really means no vote count at all, since we do not know what algorithms sit inside our tabulators....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I did not realize that.
Sad.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. I pray that if there is a Dem prez and Congress in the near future that our election system will
get a HUGE overhaul.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Most Floridians believe there will be a recount process in place...
that's how convincing.

I despair of overhauls of any kind in my state.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. More about the lack of the promised recount and paper trail.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/state/article6961...

"By law, a candidate who loses by less than one-quarter of 1 percent is entitled to a manual recount, but the law requires only a review of overvotes and undervotes.

To Browning's frustration, the Legislature did not change the law to require a manual count of all paper ballots, even though Crist repeatedly promoted paper ballots as a way of providing "receipts" for wary voters.

"What good is giving a voter a piece of this paper if no one has access to it?" Browning said, holding up a sample ballot. "And under current law, no one has access to it. No one."
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. Look at all the primary hell we went through.
I posted a lot about it. People would ask me why I did not mention that the Democrats HAD to vote for the early primary because it included a paper trail. That is one very illusive paper trail.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. And two lawsuits from FL still pending.
.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. this is unfuckingbelievable. i'm really sorry to hear this.
can't the dems go in a special session and fix this shit once and for all? why don't the papers report to the people what is happening (or are they? it's hard to believe that if people are informed they just don't care)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. I guess I am surprised to see Kurt Browning so concerned
and no Democrats speaking out on it. Glad, but surprised.

Our FL Dems voted to pass the paper trail in overwhelming numbers, even using that as the reason to move the primary up....yet not a word about the fact that there is no good having a paper trail if you can't have a manual recount.

:shrug:
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desktop Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. More strange actions on counting the votes
What is going on with republicans not wanting to count the vote? In Texas the republican dominated state officials refuse to have any paper trail at all for their electronic voting machines. Why? You be the judge, but no matter how much the polls say Obama is going to win by, if the counting is being rigged in key places it won't matter. It will be just another GOP victory where the polls were wrong and the main stream media will just go along with it.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. So, How Will Obama React when this Election is Stolen?
What action will he take? What action can he take? What action can WE take?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. For one thing, there are very few penalties for stealing an election
Edited on Thu Jul-24-08 11:19 AM by truedelphi
One of the reasons that Bush Baby went about reformatting the Dept of Jsutice was so that it is very difficult to even complain if you catch someone red handed.

then should you find someone at the FBI who will file a report, there probably is not much of a penalty even if they are convicted.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. kick
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Continuing this thought - if we could do it over again -- what actions do you
Edited on Fri Jul-25-08 10:37 PM by defendandprotect
suggest that PUBLIC should have taken re the 2000 steal?

And exactly when . . . ??? I think it went on for a few weeks, as I recall.

And, I've put this question into terms of the PAST because we really did experience

that --- it's not hypothetical -- we know the anger and the emotions and the

frustrations of it. And it really could happen again ---!!!

Should we have come out into the streets?

Should we have organized before hand expecting something like that?

Should we have had a plan?




and just in case you're someone who still thinks that Nader had anything to do with
"stealing" votes from Gore . . .

let me repeat that GORE WON overall and in Florida no matter how you count the votes ....

More than 300,000 "DEMOCRATS" voted for Bush --
More than 3,000 votes were taken by Buchanan via "butterfly ballots" designed by Dems . . .
More than 6,000 votes went to Socialists and Libertarians --
More than 600 ILLEGAL military ballots were counted for Bush --

We also had the GOP fascist rally outside of Miami-Dade Election HQ's to stop the recount
ordered by the Florida State Supreme Court --- with violence -- and with no response by
police enforcement.

This was followed by the Supreme Court putting Bush in the Oval Office ---





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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yeah . . . let's count everything by hand . . . I'll wait . . . !!!
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. same here. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. That really is another part of the election farce . . . that we have to know ...
before we go to bed on Election night who the "winner" is . . . !!

In countries where they use IRV systems sometimes they don't know for days . . .

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