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Complicit Dems and Wingnut Conservatives...What's really going on?

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 11:16 AM
Original message
Complicit Dems and Wingnut Conservatives...What's really going on?
Observing the behavior of both parties has left a lot of us confused. Why are the Dems so spineless? Why has there been no truly liberal legislation since the days of LBJ, civil rights and the Great Society? (And even that era was marred by our wacko foreign policy.)

Clinton "blew it" on universal health care, gays in the military, and some other things, while pushing through NAFTA and welfare "reform."

Then, when the Right actually gets solidly into power, as in 2002-2006, they ram all kinds of economic legislation through (tax breaks for the rich, deregulation, corporate bailouts, privatization of vital government functions like the military, etc.), but there is little payoff for the social conservatives (no rollback of Roe V. Wade, no recriminalization of homosexuality, etc.).

The pattern here is that neither the left nor the right delivers very much for their respective "bases--" us flaming liberals on the one hand, or the Bible-thumping social conservatives on the other. What happens instead is a lot of lip service to the causes dear to the liberals and the social troglodytes respectively, but no action. Instead, we get a steady push on the economic issues, summatively in the same direction, sort of like a sailboat tacking upwind, traveling sometimes slightly to the right(torture, Enron) and sometimes a bit more to the left (I don't even know where to put Clinton's balanced budget on the R-L scale), but always toward serving the interests of the wealthy, the Overlords. The Dems talk like socially responsible liberals, and the Republicans talk like social conservatives, but they both work for the same people when they're in power.

Well, try this on for size. The public consists of three groups--the diehard liberals, the right-wing nutcases, and the large, clueless lump in the middle that is kept in a more-or-less permanent trance state by the media. The Democrats have since WWII won by pandering to the left and governing in the interest of the wealthy. The Republicans have won by likewise catering to their base during the election season, and once in power, also governing in the interest of their economic overlords. In the last few decades, people like Lee Atwater and Rove & Co. decided to become a political monopoly. There were just too many personal inconveniences involved in letting the Dems have a turn at the wheel.

The problem is that there are just enough payoffs in having a nominally leftist government to keep me voting that way, but I see more and more every day that real change has to come from the bottom, and from places in society other than government.

I think that real change is best effected during times of crisis--like now. With the convergence of potential disasters in the economic, environmental, and energy spheres that is looming over us, combined with a nascent era of amazing new information technologies, there is a coming time of confusion and opportunity such as comes along rarely in history. Such a time happened in the Renaissance, when the bourgeoisie seized a lot of economic power from the hereditary princes. There were other such times before and after--the rise of agriculture and urbanization, the industrial revolution--but I am hard pressed to think of a time when so many problems converged in the same time and space as so many potentials.

For once, maybe the old Chinese malediction, "May you live in interesting times," may not be an unalloyed curse.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. It is an unalloyed curse
This "chaos" you speak of is completely controlled by the powers that be, and we will seize NO power from it.

Also, be aware that even though Roe vs. Wade is still in place, and Gay marriage is occurring, the RW Fundies have gotten their payoff in spades- the Church/State wall is almost non-existent for their religions while other religions are demonized(Remember the Church audited for speaking against the president?).

If you want to take power back from these people, you have a LONG fight ahead of you.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Sure--"the Shock Doctrine"
and all that. I certainly see Naomi's point, but I think that there are levels of chaos beyond the ones they have manufactured with their elective wars, manipulated world economies, and the like. Our chance will come when the Overlords are themselves engulfed in a chaos not of their making.

Yes, the church/state wall is eroded--all the better to use the church to bend the people to the will of the state. Of course the benefits there flow only between the state and the leaders of the church, not the followers.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I think the chances of chaos that they didn't create entering the mix is slim to none
They're watching us, waiting for us to flinch...I have to think even they are surprised at how complacent we've become under their control.

Even the best informed of us are light-years beyond their schemes...and as long as we stay behind them, we'll never get anywhere they don't want us to go- like world peace.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. You have to look at what really scares the right
The 60's really terrified them -- from 1969 to about 1982, you had a frantic burst activity to roll back 60's radicalism, ranging from the founding of countless right-wing think-tanks and PACs to support for overt fascism.

The leaders and generational spokespersons who have been assassinated or died under suspicious circumstances terrified them.

The political analysis of figures like Noam Chomsky who you'll never see on the mainstream media really terrifies them.

The simple notion that this country is being run for the benefit of what used to be collectively called "Wall Street" -- and that our sons and daughters are sent to foreign wars to die for the benefit of corporate profits -- terrifies them. If you look back at the 1950's, you can see that the Korean War launched a frantic attempt to convince people that it was a weakening of America's moral fiber and patriotism that had caused its citizens and soldiers to be less than enthusiastic about neo-colonial wars and that all we needed was a little old-time religion plus some patriarchal toughness to set things right again. Most of the agenda of the right ever since has been a constant echoing of that same message.

The idea that the "terrorists" might have something meaningful to say to us terrifies them as much as they were formerly terrified by the idea that the communists might have something to say. The image of America reflected back to us by our enemies is a mirror that the bosses are afraid we might actually look in and be repulsed by.

Put all those things together and you will know what they are scared of and where their weak points really lie. Like the fairy-tale ogre with his heart hidden inside an egg in a bird's nest at the top of the highest tree in the forest, they are perfectly secure -- until someone cracks the egg.

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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes
And their weakness is truth- and by extension, free thought and freedom to gain information.

What's lacking in this country is the desire to know that information, and the will to act on it when it is known.

As such, I see them as currently invincible. No one is willing to climb the tree and smash the egg, even though we know where it is.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. We have no party on the left. If that isn't clear now, it will never be.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. SOME of us have been shouting that from the roof top for years...
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 01:29 PM by BeHereNow
The fact that the "illusion" of a two party system
was manufactured and intended to keep the masses
from rioting.

Only the deluded believe that there is a two party system
at this point.

Rove walks after ignoring a subpoena.
Conyers does nothing.

That incident alone should have awoken the deluded.

And then there are the Kucinich Articles of Impeachment,
Bugliosi's air tight case aginst Bush for MURDER-
and a thousand other outrageous injustices.

NOTHING comes of any of it.

That would be because BOTH the dems and repubs
are working for and under the powers that be.

With the exception of VERY few.

BHN
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I have to agree.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. it's about maintaining the false right-left paradigm
the dems exist as the perceived opposition to the repukes and vice versa. They need each other to maintain the charade. If we think we have representation in Congress, we are less likely to rise up. "no taxation without representation"- well, we have representation, dont we? Nancy Pelosi loves Bush and needs him to justify her existence. This week she has been talking awful big about him being a failure- really Nancy then why did you refuse to impeach him before day one of your time in the Speaker's seat?

We will not revolt because we believe that someone has our back in Congress. If we would come to grips that it is not left v. right, but the haves v. the have-nots maybe we would do something about it.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think that reality is starting to slowly creep into the consciousness...
of most true progressives. I think you have described it well, Jackpine.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Thanks, Kentuck.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. ...ralph warned us.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R.. Once a person from either party approaches the truth they
are marginalized by people from both parties who are more interested in keeping control in the hands of the wealthy, whether they do so wittingly or not is another question.

It is why I believe the left-right coalition that is now forming is necessary, neither minority in either party can challenge the monied interests by themselves.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

"...Instead, we get a steady push on the economic issues, summatively in the same direction, sort of like a sailboat tacking upwind, traveling sometimes slightly to the right(torture, Enron) and sometimes a bit more to the left (I don't even know where to put Clinton's balanced budget on the R-L scale), but always toward serving the interests of the wealthy, the Overlords. The Dems talk like socially responsible liberals, and the Republicans talk like social conservatives, but they both work for the same people when they're in power..."


http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080106_a_conversa... /

"Hedges: Have we evolved into a corporate state?

Kucinich: I Look at it as the political equivalent of genetic engineering. That weve taken the gene of corporate America and shot it into both political parties. So they both now are growing with that essence within. So what does that mean? It means oil runs our politics. Corrupt Wall Street interests run our politics. Insurance companies run our politics. Arms manufacturers run our politics. And the public interest is being strangled....

So what I see is that the Democratic Party abandoned working people, and paradoxically theyre the ones who hoist the flag of workers every two and four years only to engender excitement, and then to turn around and abandon their constituency. This is now on the level of a practiced ritual. At least a biannual ceremony, or every two years..."




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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Why can't Democrats pass "permanent" legislation anymore?
Like the Social Security legislation, or Medicare, or foodstamps, or a sliding scale for unemployment benefits with new guidelines, or a livable working wage, or a guaranteed income. How come they can't pass something the people can see and touch and feel??
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. kick n/t
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