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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 06:55 AM
Original message
Pittsburgh-area Comcast has moved MSNBC off of basic cable
It has moved from channel 31 to channel 183. No other channel in basic cable has moved.


The tinfoil-hat person inside me would say that this is not a coincidence.


I can now only get MSNBC if I have the digital box, and can NOT get it on TVs that don't have the box.


No other channel in the lineup was moved


MSNBC was replaced by the Golf Channel. There is no way that the Golf Channel was generating more interest and viewers than MSNBC.


Something's fishy.
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. They're moving a whole bunch of our channels too (MA)
MSNBC, a bunch of religious channels, a local channel. It's all going down btwn today and the 17th.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oh my God! My friends are going to flip out! I got them hooked on
watching KO. I think you can watch MSNBC on the net via a stream. I'll have to check and let them know!!!!
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
3.  DAMN! I just checked my TV. No MSNBC except the one TV
that we have on a digital box. My bill averages about $170.00 a month and those thieves expect me to pay MORE?

I am going to raise hell. No other news network except the one that is not a complete tool for the filthy Republicans has been affected. Only MSNBC.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. You are getting ripped OFF.. We have the Top Dish plan
Edited on Tue Jul-15-08 10:01 AM by SoCalDem
have a recordable DVR on 2 tv's and regualr Dish on 2 more.. have ALL the channels,plus HBO,Showtime,Starz & all other "premium" channels and pay $112 a month..

Call DISH ASAP :)
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. This is why the Telecom Act of '96 Was so DEVASTATING to the Party:
Edited on Tue Jul-15-08 10:18 AM by mod mom
This is why endorsement of the Telecom act of '96 was so devastating to the party:

The Telecommunications Act of 1996<1> was the first major overhaul of United States telecommunications law in nearly 62 years, amending the Communications Act of 1934, and leading to media consolidation.<2> It was approved by the 104th Congress on January 3, 1996 and signed into law on February 8, 1996 by President Bill Clinton.

-snip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_of_...

HERE'S WHAT BILL CLINTON HAD TO SAY:

Noting the historic nature of the bill, President Clinton stated that the legislation would "stimulate investment, promote competition, provide open access for all citizens to the Information Superhighway." However, many public interest groups are concerned that the act undermines public interest values of access.

-snip
http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/U/htmlU/uspolicyt/usp...

COMMON CAUSE'S SUMMARY:

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
This study tells the story of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and its aftermath. In many ways,
the Telecom Act failed to serve the public and did not deliver on its promise of more competition,
more diversity, lower prices, more jobs and a booming economy.

Instead, the public got more media concentration, less diversity, and higher prices.

Over 10 years, the legislation was supposed to save consumers $550 billion, including $333 billion in
lower long-distance rates, $32 billion in lower local phone rates, and $78 billion in lower cable bills.
But cable rates have surged by about 50 percent, and local phone rates went up more than 20 percent.
Industries supporting the new legislation predicted it would add 1.5 million jobs and boost the economy
by $2 trillion. By 2003, however, telecommunications’ companies’ market value had fallen by about
$2 trillion, and they had shed half a million jobs.

And study after study has documented that profit-driven media conglomerates are investing less in news
and information, and that local news in particular is failing to provide viewers with the information they
need to participate in their democracy
Why did this happen? In some cases, industries agreed to the terms of the Act and then went to court
to block them. By leaving regulatory discretion to the Federal Communications Commission, the Act
gave the FCC the power to issue rules that often sabotaged the intent of Congress. Control of the House
passed from Democrats to Republicans, more sympathetic to corporate arguments for deregulation.
And while corporate special interests all had a seat at the table when this bill was being negotiated, the
public did not. Nor were average citizens even aware of this legislation’s great impact on how they
got their entertainment and information, and whether it would foster or discourage diversity of
viewpoints and a marketplace of ideas, crucial to democratic discourse.

Now, as Congress once again takes up major legislation to change telecommunications policy, and as it
revisits the Telecom Act, major industries have had nearly a decade to reinforce their relationships with
lawmakers and the Administration through political donations and lobbying:

• Since 1997, just eight of the country’s largest and most powerful media and telecommunications
companies, their corporate parents, and three of their trade groups, have spent more than $400 million
on political contributions and lobbying in Washington, according to a Common Cause analysis of
federal records.

• Verizon Communications, SBC Communications Inc., AOL Time Warner, General Electric Co./NBC,
News Corp./Fox, Viacom Inc./CBS, Comcast Corp., Walt Disney Co./ABC, and the National
Association of Broadcasters, the National Cable & Telecommunications Association, and the United
States Telecom Association together gave nearly $45 million in federal political donations since 1997.
Of that total, $17.8 million went to Democrats and $26.9 million went to Republicans.

• These eight companies and three trade associations also spent more than $358 million on lobbying
in Washington, since 1998, when lobbying expenditures were first required to be disclosed.
4 COMMON CAUSE
All this investment once again gives radio and television broadcasters, telephone companies, long-distance
providers, cable systems and Internet companies a huge advantage over average citizens.
While these corporations have different, and sometimes opposing views on individual provisions of a new
Telecom Act, their overriding desire is for less federal regulation. A new Telecommunications Act could
be written “in a matter of months, not years,” and be a “very short bill,” focused on an almost complete
deregulation of the telecommunications industry, said F. Duane Ackerman, chairman and CEO
of BellSouth Corporation. “The basic issue before the Congress is simple,” Ackerman said.
“Can competition do a better job than traditional utility regulation?”

http://www.commoncause.org/atf/cf/%7BFB3C17E2-CDD1-4DF6...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. ....."competition" . . . ? Where. . . . ? Capitalism isn't about competion ...
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 01:57 PM by defendandprotect
it's about killing the competition ---

Like other industries following the "deregulation" scam -- we will see how this

doubles back to deprive the consumer of services at far greater expense --

and in the end more harm to consumers and the nation.

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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm going to make some phone calls to Democratic politicians later today.
There is indeed something "fishy" (more like CORRUPT) going on here.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. I just ditched my dish and went to Comcast cable.
I have the digital box, but I cannot get MSNBC unless I pay extra. That really pissed me off and I called Comcast and bitched like hell. Not that it did any good. They are not going to give it to me for free. Why was it on Dish Network, but not Comcast?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
43. Why did YOU get rid of Dish . . . ??? It's being recommended here . . .
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. They obviously hate Joe Scarborough and Tim Matthews
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. my tinfoil hat is crackling
my hair is all gone now. and the smell of bullshit has filled the room.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yet I have att and it's still on my regular channel?
You would think att would be the first to yank it?
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
9. $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Those lower cable channels are gold to Comcast...they reach the most sets and thus are most coveted by the cable networks. Good chance The Golf Channel anted up some good bucks to Comcast for that slot. It's usually about the money with these people.
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RockaFowler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Comcast owns the Golf Channel
It could be that MSNBC did not pay what Comcast wanted and they moved them to the digital range. It is a shame, too. All about money
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. "There is no way that the Golf Channel was generating more interest and viewers than MSNBC."

...which is why they probably figure that they can get viewers to pay for MSNBC on an expanded line-up.

Although I've noticed when I travel that MSNBC is frequently not among the channel selections either.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
44. Am I wrong or was Abrams also ditching the right-wing stuff . . .???
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. Moving MSNBC to the digital tier would be enough for me to cancel cable
Live TV "news" (when it's happening) is about the only value left in cable that I can see. MSNBC is far from a perfect network but it's still generally less painful than the offerings elsewhere. I can watch all of the shows I like on the internet (legally) and for the cost of a year's worth of cable I can buy a home theater PC to play it back on my television. The quality of most of the content online is waaay better than analog cable and it's usually in the proper aspect ratio instead of being lopped off to fit a 4:3 screen (thanks CBS, ABC, Fox, et al.)
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. Kick..... Is this happening in other cities????
It has me royally pissed off.

I can no longer watch MSNBC in my den while I'm on the computer.



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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yes it has - Google it
It happened in Portland last year and they were royally pissed down to one Dem official trying to get Comcast fined.

BTW I'm in Pittsburgh and PISSED this morning. Lynn Cullen, local liberal talk host and her callers on WPTT 1360 AM is ripping Comcast a new one this morning.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. In Denver, Comcast moved MSNBC and 2 Cspan Channels to the upper tier
they are brutal--
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. Time for folks there to switch to Dish Network...
Then not only would you get MMSNBC on your basic tier, you'd also pick up Free Speech TV, Link TV, and Current TV as well!
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes... but could I watch it on my TV card on my PC?
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. I just got rid of Dish.
Even though I can't get those channels with Comcast, it's worth not having the aggravation of losing my reception for hours on end because of bad weather. And there has been a lot of it lately here in North Georgia.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
79. I don't like losing reception every time there's inclement weather n/t
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
17. Anyone know if there are any new VCR or digital recorders
that have built in capability to get these upper channels from the Comcast system w/o having to get one of the Comcast boxes? I do have the service and one of their boxes on one of my TVs but I hate their damn boxes cause I can't program my VCR to change channels. I was holding off putting another box on till this happened.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
54. TivO series 3 HD box eliminates the need for a cable box
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 03:11 PM by 48percenter
comcast gives you one free cable card that you put in the slot on the Series 3 box. That was my alternative if I couldn't get an old Motorola digital box for my data port connector for TiVo series 2.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
18. This problem was discussed by Thom Hartmann and others last October...
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JBoris Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
19. S. Florida Comcast moved CSPAN2 off basic cable. I was trying to get them to carry CSPAN3...
for years now, and this was their eventual response.
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bagimin Donating Member (945 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Comcast nearly doubled our rate then dropped c-span2
buh-bye. Direct TV era starts friday.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
45. Right . . . the moment Comcast came in they began to cut C-span II/Senate . .
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 02:03 PM by defendandprotect
it's been gone here in Central NJ now for more than a year ---

Presumably, because viewers were just dying to see the Senate in HD/Digital . . . ???

What BS . . . !!!
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
20. Per local radio talk show host the decision was solely COMCAST's
She read a letter from MSNBC stating that they had no input into the decision. MSNBC is pissed at Comcast.
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
21. This has to do with the war between the right wing and GE
Edited on Tue Jul-15-08 09:21 AM by Stuart G
Comcast supports Murdock in the fight over ratings, and guess who? Olbermann..
..Murdock's people threatened war, if GE did not tone down Olbermann's attacks on O'Riley...Well, GE isn't going to do so, and this is how the right wing responds..It ain't pretty is it?
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. And my guess is..
Edited on Tue Jul-15-08 09:28 AM by Stuart G
that this decision was made at the very highest levels of GE. That is the CEO of GE. The threat was reported in a number of places. Sorry I cannot give links to them.
..No matter how bad NBC or MSNBC may be at times, they are to be congratulated for standing up to Murdock. (and supporting Olbermann)

....... The CEO's name is Jeff Immelt.

Here is his biogaphy

http://www.ge.com/company/leadership/ceo.html
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
22. This happened with my cable company (Charter) when they
moved CSPAN2 from basic to channel 255. I have the box so I'm able to watch but anyone without the box can no longer view the Senate.
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
24. comcast is a retardlican tool.
they justify moving MSNBC based upon higher ratings. yet Faux news staid on the lower tier when it was tops.

more manipulation of information by the Right.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
64. and you are laughably uninformed
Comcast is pretty strongly leaning Democratic company. Its executives gave over $100,000 to BIden, HRC, and Obama this election cycle, compared to less than $60K to McCain, Romney and Rudy (even though McCain sits on Commerce, which has oversight jurisdiction over Comcast). Overall, Comcast employees favor Democrat with contributions by a 65/35 margin. And one of their top executives, who I used to work with in DC, is a major Democratic contributor and fundraiser, having given over $145,000 to Democratic candidates in the past 4 years (and over $250,000 since the 1990s) and has helped raise millions more.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
25. But..but.. The Golf Channel is WAY more popular than MSNBC...
Edited on Tue Jul-15-08 10:03 AM by Junkdrawer
:sarcasm:
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. BTW: I posted a warning June 20th...
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
26. Join me in emailing Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz and others to get the out there!
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
31. Suggest contacting TV critic Rob Owen at Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
and also submitting a letter. Be nice to get this complaint in print as well. Won't do much good but at least Comcast will get another blast from it's customers.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
48. Rob Owen already knows about it and doesn't seem concerned at all
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08165/889539-237.stm

If you can find a political agenda in the channels that were moved to digital, please let me know what it is.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. the reason that some channels get moved and others don't isn't political, its contractual
Contracts between cable networks and cable operators sometimes contain "tier placement" provisions that require placement on a particular level of service (or on a tier with certain other channels) and/or limit the ability of the operator to move the channel. From my experience dealing with cable companies, it wouldn't surprise me that CNN and Fox News have such clauses in their agreements and MSNBC doesn't. Why? Because CNN and Fox historically have been stronger networks in terms of viewership and thus have had the bargaining power to insist on channel placement protection.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
32. Kick for the evening crowd
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JodyD Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
34. Comcast
Hello, I am Jody Doherty. I work for Comcast in Pittsburgh.I
read scheming daemons post regarding MSNBC moving from
standard cable to digital. For starters, this was not the
only channel that we moved to a digital line-up.We moved six
channels to Digital starter, including G4, which Comcast
owns. This enabled us to launch 9 new HD channels and two new
digital channels. The demand from our customers for more, more
HD continues to grow. You do not have to go without seeing
MSNBC because Comcast is offering a free digital box to those
customers for one year. Not only will you see MSNBC, but also
have 10,000 video on demand choices available to you. As far
as the Golf Channel, it was always an analog channel and was
simply reassigned another channel number. 
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Thank You Jody. Some People Just Always Think There's A Conspiracy,
even when there is obviousness that it was likely a logical business decision.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. Capitalism, itself, is a conspiracy --- a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill System" . . .
to move assets and wealth from the many to the few ---

and all reports are that they've succeeded again!

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. You kept Fox News, CNN, and CNN HN on Basic Cable..You chose MSNBC (the more liberal cable news)..
to move to the digital tier.

And it's not just in Pittsburgh. Eastern Massachusetts was also done this week. There was also a howl when you did the same thing last year in Oregon.

And you replaced it's position on the dial with THE GOLF CHANNEL. :wtf:

Excuse me if I think that politics was involved.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Judy D is a propagandist for Comcast.
Anyone who cannot see through this malarkey is a fool. They are trying to squelch KO and its following program. And that is it. If you think this will not effect viewers for these programs, I have got a bridge to sell to you.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Ridiculous
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 02:41 PM by onenote
Demonstrating your ignorance is really not such a good idea.

First, here are the channels that are being moved to digital and/or for which a digital box will now be needed: G4, Ion, MSNBC, Oxygen, TruTV (formerly CourtTV), Hallmark, TVGuide Channel, Eternal Word Television (religious).

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08165/889539-237.stm

If you can discern a political agenda in that group of channels you have the abilities of Karnack.

Second, Comcast is a very Democratic leaning company. Donations from Comcast run 65/35 towards Democrats. During the primary season, Comcast executives gave over $100,000 to Obama, Clinton and Biden. In contrast, McCain, Rudy, and Romney picked up less than $60K (despite the fact that McCain sits on the Commerce committee, which has oversight jurisdiction with respect to cable tv).

A friend of mine who used to work in DC and who now works as a top executive for Comcast is a major Democratic fundraiser and contributor. Since 2004 he has personally donated almost $145,000 on behalf of Democratic candidates (and if you go back into the 90s, the total approaches $250,000). And that's not including the amounts he has gotten others to give to Democratic candidates.

Kevin Martin, the repub chairman of the FCC, absolutely hates Comcast. That should tell you something right there.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Fox News, CNN, and CNN HN (The Glenn Beck Channel) stay on Basic Cable. MSNBC is moved to Digital...
One doesn't need "the abilities of Karnack" to see the agenda there.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Those channels almost certainly have contractual provisions protecting their tier placement
and MSNBC probably does not. Why? For the same reason that cable operators pay more for CNN and Fox than MSNBC -- ratings for CNN and Fox historically have been much higher than MSNBC's ratings.

They moved a freakin religious channel and you still think moving MSNBC is part of a rw plot by a company with strong Democratic leanings. Okee-dokee.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #56
75. Your arguments are sillyer than Judy D's nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. If subscribers want MSNBC and C-span II/Senate, what meaning does
your "launching 9 new HD channels" have to them?

How come viewers aren't as interested in seeing Fox and CNN in "HD" . . . ?

Who wants boxes and dual controls . . . ?

And changing the entire system in January . . . !

How did government let such an idiotic idea -- based on greed --- take hold?

Let's guess . . .

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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #34
53. Okay, so now Comc-ASSED is monitoring DU??
I've officially seen it all. :eyes:

What troll posted this?
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newmajority Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #53
70. Well, they probably are.
It doesn't even necessarily have to be intentional FISA type Big Brother crap in this case. No doubt there are a lot of Comcast internet subscribers here (I'm one of them). Possibly a lot of traffic between this site and Comcast's own websites related to this story and people researching it. A sudden surge in that sort of traffic might well get them interested.

So if Comcast IS watching, let me just say that they better not try this shit in Washington state, because I don't have any fucking interest whatsoever in "The Golf Channel". Or FAUX or CNN for that matter. But MSNBC is at least watchable half the time. Leave it where it is.

Oh, and stop adding "late charges" to my fucking bill, because I ain't gonna pay them.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #34
55. 2 questions for Jody

1) Why was it that MSNBC was moved and not the less-popular CNN-HN. Why were CNN, CNN-HN, and Fox News allowed to stay put as analog channels? You still haven't explained why that particular cable news channel was moved and no other ones.

2) I have a digital box on my living room set (the "free" box). What your move has done has made it impossible for me to watch MSNBC on any other set in my house....without first getting another box (presumably, the second and third boxes are NOT free).

I have no doubt that you had to move some channels for business reasons..... But there are 5 cable news stations:

CNBC - 30
CNN - 32
CNN-HN - 33
Fox News - 34
MSNBC - 183

Sorry.... your explanation for separating MSNBC, and MSNBC alone, from the "herd" is lacking.

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. I'm not jody, but my guess is that it had a lot to do with contractual provsions
The stronger cable channels are able to obtain contractual guarantees of channel placement and restrictions on their being moved. CNN-HN may not be strong on its own, but it rides along with CNN and therefore would probably have the same protection. MSNBC historically has been the weakest of the news channels and I'd bet it doesn't have the same channel placement guarantees.


And the fact that there are five news channels is probably one other reason that one was moved. The idea is to move channels that are popular enough to attract viewers to the digital tier, not just turn digital into a dumping ground. Over the next few years, by the way, more and more channels will be moved to digital -- some operators are moving all of their channels to digital. The reason -- to free up bandwidth that can be used for other things, most notably high definition television, voice and faster internet. Comcast and other cable companies are already beginning to roll out a new high speed internet service (DOCSIS 3.0) that is super fast -- I've seen demos and it blew me away with its speed.


Disclaimer: I don't work for Comcast, but I have worked with and represented cable operators and programmers for over 25 years, so while I don't know the exact terms of the contracts in question, I have a pretty good idea what they probably say.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. They replaced the spot on the dial with The Golf Channel...
the stations from 61 to 99 are now empty. The Golf Channel sat on 65. It's been moved to 31 - right where MSNBC was.

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. and how does that have anything to do with my point?
The bandwidth that previously was used for channels 61 to 99 is being used for other services. The channel numbers have little to do with anything. Services are "channel mapped".
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Since they were preempting 62 to 99, they went out of their way to move MSNBC...
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 04:31 PM by Junkdrawer
to Digital and to move the Golf Channel down to the MSNBC slot.

Wouldn't it have been easier (and more business savy) to move The Golf Channel to Digital? Seems to me that the demographic that watches The Golf Channel would be more likely to already have digital service.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. wouldn't that make it less business savvy
THey want to drive digital penetration. So they aren't going to move channels that are popular with existing digital customers. And they aren't going to move total crap, because they don't want digital to be a dumping ground. So they pick channels with loyal followings, such as MSNBC, a religious channel, truTV.

More importantly, they picked channels that were not constrained by contractual provisions from being moved, which would be the case with a lot of the most popular channels. And they served their own business interest -- not a political interest -- by keeping Golf channel, which they own, on the more highly penetrated analog tier.

However, over the next couple of years, more and more channels--and ultimately all channels -- will be moved to digital. In fact, Comcast is reportedly purchasing several million low-end digital to analog converters that it can provide to customers at little or no cost for their second and third sets. (Currently, Comcast provides one "free" box -- but those boxes are pretty expensive still -- several hundred bucks wholesale; the new boxes will be sub-$50 wholesale).
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. ..and I will move to either Verizon or a dish...
The only advantage Comcast has now is that my bedroom and computers can use cable without a separate box. When I have to buy extra boxes to get Comcast, Comcast goes.

This "move" cements the deal.

Oh, I also see that you're moving away from "They did what they HAD to do" to "They did it to promote their digital service." Well, given the facts, at least that's a plausible argument.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. hope you aren't in Long Island -- Verizon in Long Island doesn't carry MSNBC at all
And you need a box for Verizon and for satellite.

ANd check to see which company is more supportive of Democratic candidates, Verizon or Comcast, and get back to me.

And, just for giggles, where did I ever say "They did what they HAD to do"? If you want to put words in someone's mouth, try someone other than me, because I'll call you on it.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. The whole "MSNBC may not have had a Basic Tier contract" line seems, logically, to be part...
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 05:03 PM by Junkdrawer
of a "they did what they HAD to do" argument.

But I guess you could have been blowing random smoke with no attempt to support any logical argument at all and only an object to deflect criticism.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. contract terms explain why they probably didn't move CNN or Fox
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 05:09 PM by onenote
and why they could move MSNBC.

The notion that it was politically motivated is beyond bizarre, especially considering the company's general political leanings.

But enjoy Verizon. They'll appreciate having more money to give to repubs. And, as I pointed out, if you happen to live in Long Island, you still won't have MSNBC, because Verizon doesn't offer MSNBC at all in Long Island.

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. Prove it....your argument is based on a probable cow jumping `
over the moon argument.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #34
73. Hey Jody, Comcast is not getting one more stinking DIME from me.
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 06:07 PM by PA Democrat
"A free digital box for one year." Yeah, and then you will charge people through the nose. I already pay for digital service, I just don't want the inconvenience and EXPENSE of extra digital boxes for every other TV in my house. I will be switching to satellite tv.

You can deny that there is political motivation behind this but in the end you still have a LOT of disgusted customers who will take their business elsewhere. Ignore us at your own expense. It's no wonder that Comcast was rated worst among cable providers.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/25-05202008-1536...
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
77. Did you move Fox News to digital in Pittsburgh? No, 'nuff said.
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thewiseguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. They moved MSNBC, CSPAN1 and CSPAN2 to digital here in Colorado
Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 12:28 AM by thewiseguy
Interesting huh?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
36. ROFLMAO!!!!!
Oh how I love completely illogical in reality conspiracy theories!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. Too bad not everyone is as sophisticated and brilliant as you.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
72. Oh Man You Ain't Kiddin!
If only...
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Well, I have to give it to you. Simple, but consistent ridicule has been more effective...
than disjointed facts in supporting hopeless positions.

Give the devil his due I always say...
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Ioo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
39. DIRECT TV - Get it
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
52. Comc-ASSED is just comcASSTIC isn't it?
:banghead: My adventure with them and moving this past weekend was a total NIGHTMARE. At least MSNBC is on 44 in our area. I had to fight to get an old Motorola box because I need a data port for my TiVO. Everything with Comc-ASSED requires 10x the effort to get it right.

Hey, like that new skyscraper in Philly though, eh? :nuke:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
57. They did this in Portland last year
Either they're playing naked political games- or simply trying to squeeze more money from their subscribers. Maybe both.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. They're doing it nationwide - a few markets at a time...
Keeps the complaints localized and helps their deniability ("Honest, we were just making room for HD - and the Golf Channel has a BIG following...")
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WCIL Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
67. We can't even get MSNBC
We get CNBC, but MSNBC is not offered anywhere on our channel lineup. Everyone else in the family uses DirectTV or Dish, and I am seriously thinking of making the switch. Our Comcast bill keeps going up, but our service gets worse.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
68. If they keep it up I will turn the fucker off! I'm sick of them anyway!
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