Thank you, Hillary, Russ, Leahy, and all the BRAVE Dems who did not CAVE in to B*shCo.

[chimpymustgo]

Thank you for standing up for the Constitution and showing some spine against the Corporatocracy. You are our true leaders.

(edited for typo)

[BOSSHOG]

1. But Gosh if they were the Dem nominee they'd have to vote YES

They'd have to vote against their own personal interests, their hopes and values for the sole purpose of getting elected. And as one poster put it to save the world. Yes on FISA = saving the world. Hmmmm, how the tune has changed in just a few short months.

[Skip Intro]

2. ayup nt

[chimpymustgo]

3. Tis a very sad day, portending a very sad future for us all. I don't care how much spit and gum

and lipstick many will try to put on this stinking pig,

[Occam Bandage]

18. Truth said in a sarcastic voice is truth nevertheless.

[liberal1973]

29. I don't think Russ would have

[DJ13]

4. No more

No matter my feelings on this matter, Im no longer going to post in agreement with, nor recommend, ANY posts by previously staunch Hillary supporters that are trying to knock down Obama.

Forget it, I will not play into your game.

[vanboggie]

5. Does that look like a Hillary pic?

I am a progressive - an Edwards Democrat, and I stand with the OP.

[DJ13]

7. I remember him/her from the primaries

Just because you dont it aint my problem.

[chimpymustgo]

28. This isn't a game, buddy. But keep wearing those rose-colored glasses and

drinking that Koolaid.

I'll stand with the Constitution - and those who stand FOR it.

[cali]

35. HOW SMUG

How self-righteous. How game playing of you. How fucking typicallyh boring and meaningless.

Bullshit.

[LVjinx]

40. So it is just a game? Nice.

[chimpymustgo]

50. HOW STUPID.

How hypocritical. How morally contortive. And you've cornered the market on boring and meaningless.

Queen of Bullshit.

:rofl:

[Leopolds Ghost]

31. "Out out damn spot! I will not criticize Obama especially if Hillary is right for once"

I opposed Hillary vituperatively, although never from a position of
actual loyalty to Obama (loyalty to politicians is treasonous to the
responsibility of a citizen) and never expected Obama to tack to HER
RIGHT and side with McCain on an issue this important. THAT's a
dealbreaker for any Dem who supports the constitution.

Obama is a cynical (fill in the blank.) Kerry and Gore were never
so blatant in pandering to the center-rich and running AGAINST both
the left and the constitution in the general. In fact, they both
tacked right in the primaries, and left in the general.

It seems Obama's whole campaign message was market-tested to exploit
Dean voters, nothing more. He obviously commissioned a study.

You may say Gore and Kerry didn't go on the offensive.
Obama has nothing to go on the offensive ABOUT.
He has pledged to be a Reagan Democrat.

Only Reagan never got away with spying on all American citizens.
Obama has always supported this.

It is plain to see that unlike Kerry and Gore, Obama felt straitjacketed
by liberalism, not his center-rich school buds.

[Chovexani]

48. Keep on fighting the primary.

Meanwhile the rest of us will be trying to figure out how to clean this joke of a party up.

[comradebillyboy]

6. the nays on FISA

Vote on CLOTURE: YAYS 72 NAYS 26

NAYS: Akaka, Bingaman, Boxer, Brown, Byrd, Cantwell, Cardin, Clinton, Dodd, Durbin, Feingold,Harkin,Kerry,Klobuchar,Lautenburg, Leahy, Levin, Menendez, Murray, Reed, Reid, Sanders, Schumer, Stabenow, Tester, Wyden


Kerry and Reid surprised me on this one

[MrCoffee]

8. What's surprising about it?

Well, maybe Reid's vote.

[karynnj]

11. Why would Kerry surprise you?

He was one of 10 to vote AGAINST cloture in December and he voted against cloture in Februrary and he issued a very strong statement each time - as strong as anyone else.

Who else voted against Rice, Roberts, Alito, and Gonzales, led the filibuster against Alito, was one of Feingold's 3 co-sponsors of censuring Bush (maining over these FISA violations) and voted for Kerry/Feingold. I think the answer is just Kerry - because Kennedy wasn't a censure co-sponsor.

[politicasista]

21. **crickets**

I would love to hear the answer though.

[Leopolds Ghost]

34. Which is why so many DUers hate Kerry -- he shamed us. He was the last best hope for this country.

Now there is no one. RFK and MLK would be rolling in their grave.

Let's just ask John Dean, shall we?

It is obvious who the FISA proponents / minimizers on DU are working for.

Imagine if they'd been aropund to play havoc during Watergate.

[karynnj]

38. Huh???

It is exceding strange that John Dean has become a hero to the left. What would Nixon think?

Is your Kerry comment sarcasm?I suspect though as it is pretty excessive. I haven't seen FISA proponents on DU - noone, including Obama is saying the bill is great. I don't get the Watergate comment, My head is just not working today.

[Eric J in MN]

23. Harry Reid could have stopped the bill if he wanted to.

He didn't have to introduce it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Bravo for my two senators. Murray and Cantwell. And, to hell with the sell-outs.

What a pathetic lot of "Democrats".

[Leopolds Ghost]

37. GO TESTER!

One red-state constitutional populist got elected narrowly in 2006.

Sucks for the other one.

[hisownpetard]

43. Wasn't Whitehouse a "Nay" as well?

[nam78_two]

45. Kerry doesn't surprise me at all

He has a lot of integrity-he goofed on the war, but generally speaking he is one of the most reliable people we have on our side. I thought he was an awesome candidate in 2004.

[shanti]

53. yay boxer

my senator hasn't let me down yet! :woohoo:

[ProSense]

9. Hillary's vote was an easy one. She isn't running for anything.

She dodged the vote on Dodd's amendment when she was campaigning.

She did not fight against this bill the way Feingold, Leahy, Dodd did. She didn't even speak out often against it.

[Beacool]

12. Face it, your guy let you down.

Don't try to shift it now to Hillary.

[golddigger]

14. But, but, but, Hillary made him vote yes!

[ProSense]

16. Not in the least.

I live in the real world.

Still the better candidate.

[Occam Bandage]

20. Hardly. He made the right vote. So did she.

After running against Obama to the right (and racking up a hawkish record before her run), Hillary needs to ingratiate herself back with liberals if she wants to have a future with this party. After running a progressive primary campaign, Obama needs to demonstrate to the center that he's a pragmatist and not an ideologue. Both made the votes I would have in their shoes.

[Leopolds Ghost]

36. Fuck that treasonous argument. I hope you aren't on the government dime with comments like that

Notice I didn't attack you personally.

[Beacool]

39. Hillary doesn't need to "ingratiate" herself with anybody.

She has a bright future in the party and she voted as she saw fit. At least she never pretended to be something that she's not, unlike other people.........

[hisownpetard]

44. Isn't he 'your guy,' too? After all, he is the presumptive Democratic nominee.

[Beacool]

51. He was not the person who I supported in the primary.

He's the nominee, but that doesn't mean that I will ever think that he is a better candidate than the person I supported. I'm sure that others feel the same way about the person who they initially supported.

[hisownpetard]

56. The primaries are over. He's our nominee. He should be "your guy" now,

[SoCalDem]

24. Yeppers.. the "art" of strategic voting is something to behold

It's why Lieberman has such a "strong" democratic footprint, and yet acts like a republican neo-con .

All these senators/congresspeople can count.. They KNOW when something's going to pass or fail. It's always a safe bet to "make a statement" by voting NAY on something that's going to pass anyway..or to vote AYE for something that's doomed to failure.. Those votes still "count" toward their report card, and they can earn extra brownie points with constituents, based on those "doomed" votes...and they all know it..

The votes that are close..49-51..those are the telling ones.. the ones that separate the men from the boys..

I wish they could vote with secrecy.. we would have better laws...and we might pay closer attention to the macro-content of congress, if they had a secret ballot..

They DO vote via secret ballot, when it's for their own internal committee selection..

If we had single-issue legislation, with secret balloting, we might have a much better government.

[LVjinx]

41. And here I thought she co-sponsored the Dodd amendment.

[midnight]

10. Thank you to those brave dems who voted against this Fisa

amendment.

[Beacool]

13. Thank you Hillary and the rest of the Democrats who voted Nay!!!!!

:bounce:


Screw the other ones!!!!!

:thumbsdown:

[wundermaus]

15. Wow... Hillary Voted Against FISA and Obama Voted For Fisa

Can't get much clearer than that.

I was wrong about both.


I feel like such a sucker.

[Occam Bandage]

17. Don't worry. It'd have been the opposite. Funny to see the remnants of Team Hillary

pick up all the old arguments about Hillary's IWR vote and Obama's opposition to it, and vice versa.

[FredfromSpace]

25. Turnabout is fair play I guess.

Sorry, the way I see it, Obama deserves whatever insults come his way on this one.

He cast a very bad vote today.

[Occam Bandage]

26. Sure. It's expected, just like Hillary's IWR trashing is. Most people know what's going

on here. But then again, most people don't like to let the facts get in the way of a good pout.

[FredfromSpace]

30. I personally am ashamed of Obama today.

Not much fun in it.

[NNN0LHI]

52. But yesterday you were a big supporter?

Come on quit with the childish shit. You ain't fooling no one.

Don

[FredfromSpace]

55. Not really. I preferred several other candidates. But he is the nominee.

I want to believe in him.

He has been making that hard lately.

[Leopolds Ghost]

33. You find this all amusing because the primary outcome is of more importance to you than FISA

Which is why you were playing devil's advocate on FISA thread after thread
arguing that the issue was of little importance in the scheme of things.

[Occam Bandage]

47. Replace "primary outcome" with "general election outcome." Primaries are over.

Any reference to primaries would be in reference to people who obviously believe they are not, such as the thousand-poster who got tombstoned tonight for demanding we give the nomination back to Hillary.

[Eric J in MN]

19. The majority of Democrats in both the House and Senate voted No.

The leadership should not have introduced the bill.

We need new leaders.

Not Harry Reid in the Senate,
and Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer in the House.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00168#top

[Chovexani]

49. From your lips to God's ears

Our completely FECKLESS "leadership" in Congress is an absolute disgrace and has been since they waltzed in there talking all that empty shit.

It's like watching the Keystone Cops.

[katty]

22. thanks Russ for holding on so long

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

32. Well at least one Senator from Illinois has some guts.

I intend to let Sen. Durbin know he will always have my support. What a class act...

[minnesota_liberal]

42. 21 more votes would have defeated the bill - exactly the # of Dems who caved

3 Senators didn't vote, so 49 was the magic number. 49 votes minus 28 actual nay votes = 21 more nay votes needed.

[NNN0LHI]

54. That number is not fixed

The Republicans would have voted so that it came out that way no matter what.

Why are you using this Republican strategy to try and make Dems look bad?

Don

[minnesota_liberal]

57. All Republicans who voted did so in favor of the bill, so my statement is correct

The only RepubliCon who didn't vote was McCain, who was apparently had more important things to do - probably a campaign fundraiser somewhere.

Kennedy was in town but didn't vote. I suspect that he knew enough spineless Dems would ignore the Fourth Amendment that his vote wouldn't matter.

In any case, I'll stand by my original statement.

[three1oh]

46. thank you