Values voters have little to show for years of Republican rule

[ck4829]

Joseph Bottum is editor of First Things, the flagship intellectual journal of the "theo-cons," which is to say, the religious right. And Joseph Bottum is not a happy man.

"Social conservatism is in little better shape now than it was when Bush was first elected. In many ways, it is in worse shape," he writes in the magazine's current issue. "Every conservative I know is depressed these days, and they are right to be."

Hate to say it, but for religious and social conservatives, the Bush administration will have been the last political hurrah at the national level for some time.

If so-called values voters couldn't get meaningful action on the two issues that have most animated our side this decade - abortion and gay marriage - with an evangelical president and both congressional chambers in Republicans' hands, it's not going to happen.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_5370379

Oh, I don't know. You guys got eternal war, smashing down human rights, torture, propaganda, deception, corruption, killing the environment, and spreading fear, that's a victory for the Conservative Values Voters, right?

[Clark2008]

1. How come they haven't figured out, yet, that Bush is NOT

an evangelical president. He's just a politician who panders to their side, but doesn't really hold their beliefs.

:eyes:

[dkofos]

6. Because they have drunk of the coolaid, and the only news

sources they are allowed to listen to are LYING TO THEM.

They only need to start thinking for themselves.

If they are allowed to!!

[maggiegault]

40. They're Morons

They are morons, these politicians know that they are morons, and the corporations that own the politicians know that they are morons.

It must be a terrible feeling to know that not only have you been used, but that you were had.

[Kikosexy2]

23. Book of ..

Revelations warned of false prophets & the Anti-Christ...These bible-thumpers didn't heed such warnings...tough sh*t! Now they shall perish with their beloved false prophet Chimpie & Co....Oh, those Evilgelicals!

[LibDemAlways]

24. That one's a mystery, isn't it? He rarely sets foot in

a church, has done nothing but give lip service to their issues, and still they're convinced he's a holy, religious man.

My husband's aunt is one of the true believers. She'd have a heart attack if she ever saw the photo of Bush displaying his middle finger to the tv camera and could be convinced (highly doubtful) it's for real.

[RaleighNCDUer]

39. OTOH, maybe he IS

but he's not the one making the decisions.

Cheney certainly is not, nor is Rove.

[maxrandb]

44. Because some still confuse him as the new Messiah

I mean, he was appointed by Gawd and all that :sarcasm:

[Ian David]

2. "Every conservative I know is depressed these days, and they are right to be."

Through early morning fog I see,
Visions of the things to be,
The pains that are withheld for me,
I realize and I can see...

That suicide is painless.
It brings on many changes.
And I can take or leave it if I please.

I try to find a way to make,
All our little joys relate,
Without that ever-present hate,
But now I know that it's too late, and...


That suicide is painless.
It brings on many changes.
And I can take or leave it if I please.
The game of life is hard to play,

I'm gonna lose it anyway.
The losing card I'll someday lay,
So this is all I have to say.


That suicide is painless.
It brings on many changes.
And I can take or leave it if I please.

<snip>

...And you can do the same thing if you choose.

More:
http://users.cis.net/sammy/mash.htm

[Hawaii Hiker]

3. I hate social conservatives

I was BRIEFLY a Republican in my college days in the early 1990's....The main reason I swicthed to a Democrat by about 1994 (or so) was that I could NOT STAND the social conservatives preaching about abortion, Hollywood, pornography, etc. I was always like if you don't like abortion - don't have one..If you don't like Hollywood and/or the adult-film industry, CHANGE the F-ing channel, & quit telling others what they should do with their body, & what they should & should not be watching & listening to..

Besides, if the "values issues" were so damn important to these nuts, why didn't they nominate Gary Bauer in 2000, whose a far-right social crackpot?....

Social conservatives are nothing but a bunch of overly invasive, self-righteous, self-centered jerks who want to tell everyone how to live their lives...

Democrats care about the IMPORTANT problems facing the country today (this Iraq disaster, health-care, social security, environment, etc.)...

[Zeke]

5. Yea, Verily...

Democrats are not squeaky clean and it's voters
like you & I who must elect new Democrats who
champion the issues you mentioned. Your passion
kicks ass.

As for the conservatives---regressives really---
like Weyrich and William Lind named in the article,
those guys are scum, now trying to promote a smaller,
simpler America ala the 1950's, claiming small farms
and towns are the way to a happier you & I.

Well no wonder, those guys are changing their song,
as the Southern Poverty Law Center documents their
attendence at various American Neo-Nazi conventions
in recent past years, denouncing Jews to applause
from the crowd.

Believe nothing they say about changing their stripes.

[silverweb]

21. Exactly!

Well said!

:thumbsup:

[Ganja Ninja]

4. Maybe they should resign themselves to the fact that they live in

the USA and the rest of us have rights we aren't going to surrender. Maybe one day they'll wise up and realize that you can't always get what you want and when people tell you they can get it for you they're lying and they're using you. Maybe one day they'll stop pissing away everything else that matters to them for a lost cause.

[Hamlette]

7. Why do the values voters love this war? Or is it any war? I'm lost here.

I'm reading this article about why they love Rudy. Did the very religious support Vietnam or the cold war like this? What is it about people who have fought for decades to protect the life of the unborn that they can put on a uniform (or have some poor kid do it) and go out and kill? Help me here.

From the article:

"(1) The War, Stupid: There is the war, which overwhelms everything as the major issue in the eyes of the base. No group in the country backs the war on terror as fervently as social conservatives, whose main
criticism of the president's policy is that it has not been aggressive enough. ...
They see him as a more ruthless version of George W. Bush, someone who would not have consented to less-than-aggressive rules of engagement; who would have taken Falluja the first time, and not have had to come back later; who would not have let Sadr escape when he had him; who would not have been fazed by whining over Abu Ghraib and Club Gitmo, and would have treated critics of the armed forces and of the mission with the same impatience he showed critics of the police in New York. As nothing else, the terror war sits at a nexus of issues dear to the heart of the base: the need to use force when one's country is threatened; the need to make judgments between good and evil; the need to protect and assert the moral codes of the Judeo-Christian tradition; the need to defend the ideals of the West.
"For a majority of the GOP primary electorate, it is the war, the war, the war (and judges)," writes the influential radio host and blogger Hugh Hewitt. "The war on terror hasn't just changed Giuliani's profile as a crisis-leader," writes columnist Jonah Goldberg. "It's changed the attitudes of many Americans, particularly conservatives, about the central crisis facing the country. It's not that pro-lifers are less pro-life. . . . It's that they really, really believe the war on terror is for real. At conservative conferences, on blogs, and on talk radio, pro-life issues have faded in their passion and intensity. . . . Taken together, terrorism, Iraq, and Islam have become the No. 1 social issue."'

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/370rvrau.asp?pg=2

[maxsolomon]

11. they love the war because they are motivated by fear

fear of others
fear of death
fear of their bodies
fear of their mind

why do you think they've given their lives over to jesus? its easier than being responsible to yourself for your actions & thoughts.

[FatDave]

47. And that brings up the question that's been nagging me for a long time.

Why do so many who are so "right with God", fear death? If you believe that this life is basically crap and your true reward will be in heaven, why are you so fucking afraid of dying?

[mitchum]

54. The reason that they so desperately love God is because they fear death

The fear comes first; then God

[FatDave]

62. I expect you're right

Well, it's long been my belief that religion was born on the day we recognized our own mortality.

[maxsolomon]

61. as my meditation teacher says:

they've spent their whole lives getting ready to live, and never actually lived.

[FatDave]

63. Your meditation teacher sounds quite wise.

Which I suppose is a good thing to look for in a meditation teacher. :D

[mac56]

19. They love this war because it's against Islam.

It's the American Jihad.

I've heard more devout God-loving Xtians say the most nasty, hateful, insulting things against Islam. Demonizing "the enemy" is what it's all about.

[krispos42]

37. Also an integral part of the rise of fascism and authoritarian rule n/t

[shaniqua6392]

45. You are exactly right.

They hate the Muslims with a passion. They are cheering the war in Iraq and would gladly send our troops into every Muslim nation on earth to destroy them all. The "War on Terror" is a religious war. Too bad our troops are dying for their cause.

[EstimatedProphet]

26. They love this war because they are fundamentally evil

Domionists believe in a warped view of the bible, twisted to mean exactly the opposite of what the bible is supposed to mean. I don't really believe in Satan, but I do think the best proof of Satan's existence is what the dominionists have done to the biblical message. If there were an evil presence that wanted to destroy the message of Christianity, it couldn't do better than to promote dominionism as Christianity.

[Tekla West]

29. like sheep

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

[EstimatedProphet]

31. You betcha

Dominionists are a bitter fruit

[liberaldemocrat7]

57. When they mention Judeo-Christian tradition leave Judeo out of it please!

This Judeo (me) wants nothing to do with todays right wing Religiosos.


Imagine a religioso who uses the lie that Jaysus did not call for government to help the poor. Bull Crap. The government reflects the wishes of the citizens to a degree and therefore many citizens do want government to help the poor and these citizens do pay taxes.

[Beer Snob-50]

58. the value voters support the war

because they feel it supports israel which the old testament says is Gods chosen land and its people his chosen people.

[geniph]

68. It's the modern Crusades

the hardcore religiofascists believe it's a Holy War against the Forces of EEEE-vul in the guise of Islam. Onward Xtian Soldiers and all that rot.

[City Lights]

8. Chumps!

It took them this long to realize they'd been used? :rofl:

:nopity:

[deepthought42]

9. Only chumps would stand by a chimp...lol n/t

[KansDem]

70. Perhaps they should change the name of their religion to "Chumpsianity." (eom)

[Arugula Latte]

10. Poor widdle psychochristianfascists!

Their attempts to make us all embrace Dark Ages Values have failed. :cry:

[ClintonTyree]

12. Their dream of a theocracy in the United States....

has been smashed against the rocks of reality. What a bunch of boneheads!

"Theo-cons are right to be anxious over sexual disorder and its social consequences, but we are, by and large, untroubled by the role unrestrained capitalism plays in our cultural crisis". :puke: Well, that says a lot about them, doesn't it? Could it possibly be that unrestrained capitalism is the ROOT CAUSE of what they consider to be a godless, soul-less country? That the quest for and worship of riches beyond all else has, perhaps, a little something to do with the breakdown of our society? That the dichotomy between rich and poor in our country has become so great during Republican rule that no one can afford to join their mega-million dollar churches and worry about and support their twisted, elitist causes? :banghead:

Could it be that a solid majority of Americans DO NOT support their agenda? That women WANT the right to choose whether to bring a child into this world or not, that sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with an individual's basic rights as a human being, that people DON'T WANT to be told which religion, if any, is the one TRUE religion and MUST be followed to the exact book, chapter or verse?

Reality is finally setting in with the theo-cons. They've been courted, pandered and lied to by the Republic Party and now they're having a bit of buyer's remorse. Their riches, that they so ardently hold dear, couldn't buy them their theocracy, couldn't buy them their version of utopia. But alas, there's a no refund policy with the Republic Party, their money has been wasted, they're yet another victim of the Party of greed and avarice and have nothing to show for it but empty, broken promises.

TOO BAD, SUCKERS! :rofl:

[ThoughtCriminal]

13. I like to force "Libertarian" Republicans to defend

their association with religious-right wing-nuts.

They say "Coulterish" things like - "For liberals, history began yesterday" (usually followed by some incredibly inaccurate historical reference).

In response, I tell them: "For conservatives, history BEGAN 6000 years ago."

They either have to humiliate themselves by defending creationism, or distance themselves from their own party leadership and it's supporters.

[ProfessorGAC]

Way Too Late For That, T/C

In the 2004 presidential election year, i watched part of the libertarian convention on CSPAN. One of the guys looking for the nomination (he didn't get it) was talking about societal decay and having to get thing right again. A LIBERTARIAN RUNNING ON AOBRTION, SCHOOL PRAYER, AND THE LIKE!!!

The radical right has already infiltrated the libertarians. So, they're already compromised by money and they will never be able to answer your question.
The Professor

[Straight Shooter]

14. Dear Mr. Bottom: GOP leaders will not give up their voting wedge issues.

In short, you've been had.

[Demoiselle]

38. I love that a spokesman for "values" is called Bottum. Snicker. eom

[Straight Shooter]

43. Heh. I misread his name. n/t

[treestar]

15. Just reading "What's the Matter with Kansas"

and the author points that out in the intro - the repukes just use theses issues to get the votes with no intent to deliver, IMO.

[Dr.Phool]

18. Of course they won't deliver on the issues.

If they did, they wouldn't have anything to run on in the next election, and these people would notice how these guys are screwing them every other way.

[JPZenger]

16. Rich Developer Wants to Impeach Bush

A rich land developer that I know just talked about how he wants Bush impeached.

He said that nothing is being manufactured in the US anymore. He said that we are becoming a third world nation with the huge amount of debt that the Federal government has accumulated. He said, "China loves our debt."

[yardwork]

36. Too bad he didn't listen to the "crazy liberal wingbats"

We tried to warn him.

[geniph]

69. That's "moonbats."

They're "wingnuts", we're "moonbats". For goodness' sake, don't conflate the two! You have created a wingbat moonnut monster!

[xxqqqzme]

46. well, now that's novel - wonder how he came

to those conclusions?


Obviously, he has not been paying attention for the last SIX years.

[DuaneBidoux]

17. Not only do they have nothing to show for it, they are in the minus column

Like everyone else they have been sacrificed on the alter of savage capitalism (as opposed to balanced capitalism). Their income is falling, their jobs are being outsourced too, the rich get richer while they have soaring health care costs, and they may have figured "we are willing to stand for that as long as we get our way on social issues" (at least those concerning sex).

But of course now they have ended up with nothing, absolutely nothing to show for it. They have been sacrificed on the alter of big business.

[jwirr]

20. I think this is important. They have been leading their followers around

with the political carrot promising that politicians would fix it all even though they have elected nothing but false political leaders who had their own agenda. This is a prime example of why our constitution calls for the separation of church and state. Religion is a personal issue not a political issue.

[EstimatedProphet]

22. Oh, I feel so sorry for the little Eichmann wannabes

Six full years of God's Only Son Reborn As President, and they haven't been able to force all liberals into concentration camps yet! How do they get through the day?

[ProgressiveFool]

25. A return to populism

It seems to me that the author (I don't know him, can't judge him by other than what he writes here) is advocating that the theo-cons return to populism (univeral health care, mom & pop shopping habits), and that they perhaps bite their tongues a bit when it comes to the culture war. Now the author might have other motives, or ideologies, but if his audience takes just that from it, I can't help but see it as a good thing.

Both sides, conservative and liberal, are turning to populism, which is, I think, a natural reaction to war, corruption, a wealth-based caste system, etc. We're reaching the end of another gilded age, and the leader who seizes the opportunity will have a chance to be the next FDR.

The Republican candidates for 2008 all represent the gilded establishment, so they're out. I think that leaves Edwards or Obama as the best chance, or Gore if he enters.

[silverweb]

27. I love these bits:

"...while the older generation of evangelicals reads the Bible for its application to sex and family relations, younger evangelicals turn to holy writ for guidance on war, hunger and poverty."

"Theo-cons could make common cause with Democrats on, say, the environment. Treating the Earth with an ethic of stewardship is becoming more important to younger Christians. There is also commonality on economic security. A 2006 poll by the nonpartisan Pew Center found that social conservatives strongly favor universal health coverage and overwhelmingly oppose job outsourcing. Culture-cons get how vulnerable families are to job loss and health-care costs."

"The authors call on conservatives to rethink their lifestyles, particularly the way they shop, use technology and relate to the community. For instance, they favor 'small is beautiful'-style initiatives, like supporting family farming and local businesses, and a return to old-style neighborhood design as elements of a more holistic conservative agenda. The best way to change culture, they persuasively argue, is to show others by example the fruits of traditional living."

Yes!

If we leave religious dogmas and private behaviors to the individual conscience, respect our personal differences, and work together on these problems that affect us all -- just imagine what we could accomplish!

[callous taoboy]

28. Since '00 I've been inspired to:

1) Join the ACLU and send 50 bucks to them each year;

2) Join Americans for the Separation of Church and State.

I do appreciate the efforts of the MEpublican crazies.

[Hawaii Hiker]

41. Since 2003,

I've donated to the Free Speech Coalition in California..

[Beelzebud]

30. They are now reaping what they've sown.

[VaYallaDawg]

32. Every time I see him coming out of church it's at

St. John's Episc., right across the street from the WH.

When did that become "evangelical" or "pentecostal" ?? - all looks like a big ole scam to me. But of course, it couldn't have happened to a better bunch of hypocrites!

[Roland99]

33. ESAD, Fund-A-Mentals!!

AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

[yardwork]

34. The "theo-cons" still don't get it

They're looking for a solution to their problems in a party (the Republican Party) that embodies those very problems. Snipped from the column -

"Big business has nothing to fear from political Christians, mostly because they fail to see the threat unrestrained consumerism poses to the values we wish to conserve."

He's absolutely right about that. Why doesn't he recognize the obvious solution - that liberals embody the values that he values? These are NOT conservative values.

[Sapere aude]

35. If someone came up to you and said they favored good stewardship of the environment and

were opposed to outsourcing and favored access to health care for all, yet did not say they were conservative, how would you deal with them?

[underpants]

42. Professional wrestling

no resolution just endless shouting anger and name calling.

EVERYONE needs to be aware that it could happen to them.

[The Backlash Cometh]

48. Value voters: Once someone gets born into poverty, they are no longer

valued.

[girl gone mad]

49. We need to be smart here.

" The authors call on conservatives to rethink their lifestyles, particularly the way they shop, use technology and relate to the community. For instance, they favor ''small is beautiful''-style initiatives, like supporting family farming and local businesses, and a return to old-style neighborhood design as elements of a more holistic conservative agenda. The best way to change culture, they persuasively argue, is to show others by example the fruits of traditional living. "

As much as I would like to see these concepts become even more popular, I do not want conservatives to take our values and re-label them as their own. It is liberals who have fought the Wal-Martization of America, started the organics movement, supported alternative energy and smart building, etc. Don't let the conservatives jump on the bandwagon at the last minute and pretend they've been driving it all along.

[nealmhughes]

50. I can think of no better reason for one to become an ardent atheist Leninist

than to be exposed long enough to the Most Serene Christian Republicans' daily hate, outsourcing, and social control.
But at least Nicholas and Alix are saints now...rest 'em deep. I'm all for more matyrs, myself.

"Man the last king be strangled in the bowels of the last priest," according to W. H. Reid in The Rise and Dissolution of the Infidel Societies in the Metropolis, London, 1800, a popular toast in Spitalfields during the French Revolution.

People can only stand so much, then the proverbial last straw is cast upon their collective backs...

[Big Sky Boy]

51. I guess over 30 anti-gay marriage initiatives isn't meaningful enough

They've done real harm to real people they don't even know and don't care to know. It will be at least a generation before we can undo those laws--which is why they have been so desperate to get a Federal marriage amendment on the ballot.

These supposed "christians" who claim to be full of the love of Jesus have made a mockery of the gospels -- petty little vendictive, busy-bodies who are concerned about a whole lot of things that shouldn't concern them.

They are subversive radicals who actively seek to undermine the Constitution. They hide behind their First Amendment Freedom of Religion -- which they interpret as the freedom to force everyone to worship exactly the same way they do, after which there will bo no other freedoms.

They are dangerous people. We can make jokes about them, but we should never fail to take them seriously.

They helped get Bush elected twice -- and we are all suffering for that.

It can happen again.

[TommyPaine]

52. So what would McCain (et al.) bring to the table?

Now that McCain is fiercely pandering to the theocrats, what are they to expect of a McCain presidency? This supposed "maverick" politico with an "independent streak" (har, har) is nothing more than a far-right panderer these days. But he may be the best RWCC (Right-Wing Christian Conservative) prospect for '08. Giuliani's too socially liberal, Romney's a Mormon heathen...maybe Chuck Hagel? Fortunately all their prospects look dim.

Funniest (well, saddest, really) thing about these RWCCs...what's the most imporant Commandment of all? What Commandment has BushCo blithely disregarded for 4+ years now? Whatever happened to "The Prince of Peace"? The only thing these sociopaths pray for is more power.

[newyawker99]

59. Hi TommyPaine!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[mitchum]

53. There's a sucker born again every minute

[brg5001]

67. YES! They always need newbies to fill the TV collection plates (eom)

[KansDem]

71. LOL!!!

:rofl:

I had to read your post title twice to get the humor!!!

[salib]

55. I think these people WANT to be had

They need to be led around by the nose. These "preachers" do the same thing to them all the time. It is what they expect, crave, whatever.

It is a real societal sickness, one we need to help treat, but even more so, one that we need to deal with as a public health issue, and prevent.

We need to confront and disempower these asshat preachers. They are worse than loan sharks.

[KansDem]

73. Stockholm Syndrome?

The Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage can show signs of having feelings of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which the hostage has been placed. Stockholm syndrome is also sometimes discussed in reference to other situations with similar tensions, such as battered person syndrome, rape cases, child abuse cases, and bride kidnapping.

Wikipedia

Hey, YOU!!! Yeah, YOU!!! NO drinking! NO gambling! NO dancing! NO sex! YOU GOT THAT!!! Now, give me ALL your money! NOW!!! Or you ain't going to Heaven!!!

Oh, yes sir! Anything you say, sir!

[HappyWeasel]

56. ohhh....and don't forget hypocracy and child molestation.

Apparently, those are really solid conservist values.

[Zambero]

60. Complicit suckers with nothing to show for it

Except lower wages, outsourced jobs, higher medical costs, no pension plans, increasingly limited education options for their kids, and a skewed tax system favoring the wealthy. Narrow mindedness and intolerance do indeed have a price for willful perpetrators.

[brg5001]

65. Well stated, Zambero!

You hit the nail on the head. So-called 'values' issues were just the foundation for getting poor folks to support a reverse-Robin-Hood agenda that actually hastens the unraveling of the social contract and undermines families of all kinds.

[brg5001]

64. Repukes know that abortion and gays keep the flock a-votin'

Of course nothing's been accomplished or even attempted by the Old-time Religion crowd's favorite Republicans...except servicing the Uber-Wealthy and making it sound like God's work.

They had full control of Congress and the presidency, and all they did was bitch, moan and complain about how abortion, gays and (now) immigrants are ruining Gawd's kingdom. But DO ANYTING to pass legislation to appease the pseudo-Christian hallelujah crowd? HELLLLLL NO! Several reasons why they didn't make good on the Dobson Docket:

THEY COULDN'T MAKE GOOD ON IT EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO. People (gasp) actually weren't obsessed with gays, abortion or jailing immigrants. They're asking why their sons and daughters are coming home in bodybags or with certain crucial body parts missing for a war that didn't need to happen. They're starting to figure out that the mass migration of good-paying jobs to Chinese manufacturers staffed by forced labor is resulting in diminished opportunity and benefits here at home...such as company-paid health care, which is rapidly becoming an oxymoron. And (amazingly), Americans are not as narrow-minded as Falwell, Dobson et al want us to be. With turds like Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, James Dobson and Ted Haggert becoming the modern face of KKKristianity, more people are really beginning to SEE THE LIGHT -- these lizards are so full of shit that it's coming out of their ears. Plus, the real agenda was never about social issues, it was about occupying Iraq, rolling back environmental regulations, centralizing control of the broadcast media, turning the military into mercenaries for large corporations, and repealing the estate tax -- for the glory of Christ.

If the Republican God Squad were actually to enact the KKKristian Right's legislative agenda of hate, these issues would become non-issues to their base, and there would be no need for them to show up on election day and return their mini-messiahs to office. End of story.

[B Calm]

66. Values Voters = RELIGIOUSLY INSANE

[Geek_Girl]

72. Values Voters = Suckers

Republicans have been using the religious right for decades. If it hadn't screwed up our country so bad it would be funny.