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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:36 PM
Original message
North Pole to be ice-free this summer
At least potentially:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change...

It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.

The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic and worrying examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.

"From the viewpoint of science, the North Pole is just another point on the globe, but symbolically it is hugely important. There is supposed to be ice at the North Pole, not open water," said Mark Serreze of the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado.

If it happens, it raises the prospect of the Arctic nations being able to exploit the valuable oil and mineral deposits below these a bed which have until now been impossible to extract because of the thick sea ice above.


More at link.
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colt equalizer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe this Science Daily report is on to something.
Fire Under Arctic Ice: Volcanoes Have Been Blowing Their Tops In The Deep Ocean
ScienceDaily (June 26, 2008) A research team led by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) has uncovered evidence of explosive volcanic eruptions deep beneath the ice-covered surface of the Arctic Ocean. Such violent eruptions of splintered, fragmented rock--known as pyroclastic deposits -- were not thought possible at great ocean depths because of the intense weight and pressure of water and because of the composition of seafloor magma and rock.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/0806251406...
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think the landlord wants us out of here
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colt equalizer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Naw. The landlord has watched the place become a worse shambles over 100 million years.
I don't doubt he loves us, always will, and has a plan regardless of the doomsayers.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Impossible. The earth is only 6,000 years old.
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colt equalizer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. That would be 6,000 God years, not Human years. NT
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. Bet you don't doubt a lot of things.
There's a word for that: sucker.

Con men must LOVE you.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Ah yes, what a pity that there is nothing in the article to say that such eruptions...
are responsible for melting sea ice. In fact, it hints the other direction. But do enjoy your stay here!
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colt equalizer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I don't think the article addressed that at all, but I don't doubt the next will.
Is it inconceivable that volcanoes under the Arctic would warm water, warm water would rise, and that rising warm water would melt ice?
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. You need to understand the scales, amounts, and temperatures involved.
You clearly do not. But hey, that never gets in the way of the denialists anyway. You do realize that even John McCain supports fighting global warming, and recognizes it as a clear threat to the world?
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colt equalizer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. whatever, just tell me what melted the last dozen glaciers if it wasn't global warming. NT
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I would love to, but you clearly don't understand the science.
And from your post history, I'm not too sure that you're on the right message board.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Half the Democratic party, huh?
You're a funny one. Maybe you'll learn something while you're here! I sure hope so.
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colt equalizer Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yup, it was more before, then gas went to $4.... NT
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Gonna have to show some data if you're going to spew bullshit like that.
Prove it. Show the poll data, if you have it.

(and NOT one from the Climate Change Denial Industry, perhaps a Pew or Quinnepac or Zogby or the rest of the handful that still have some integrity left...NOT The Wise Use Coalition or astrturf likethat)
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. It's not a matter of 'belief'
It's a matter of fact.

Something republicon homelanders have demonstrated vast disrespect for with their radical 'belief based' plundering of the planet, leaving a shambles of the economy and the US Constitution, and heap of planetary crap for our children.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. This is the new spin from the RW think tanks and Climate Denier Industry
Not that I don't doubt volcanoes are going off in the ocean. I don't doubt the data.

What I doubt is the way that everything and anything and I MEAN ANYTHING, is grapsed onto by the Climate Change Denier Industry to sow doubt, which is their "product" after all.

You get what you pay for, and the Climate Change Denial Industry has invested billions.

I don't know who you are, you just may well be someone who sounds an awful like a Bushie, but I am certainly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. You may just be transimtting the latest bullshit meme from our multi-billion dollar Climate Change Denial Industry.

Yep. It's volcanoes. That's it. That's all it is. We can just keep on like we're keeping on.

:rofl:

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. As frightening as that sounds, I'd kind of like to see it
It would be very interesting.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. "La de da, dee da." - Republicon homelanders
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. 99 views thus far and only 1 rec (mine)? n/t
Edited on Thu Jun-26-08 08:46 PM by ColbertWatcher
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. 4 now
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Good damn it! n/t
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. What is the chance that this is EXACTLY what the Oil Barons want ?
FUCK the earth ... There is money to be made under that thar ice, er ... water ....

OF course they wouldn't want to ruin the environment in order to make a killing on petroleum ... right?

Yeah ..... right .....
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
41. Never thought of that
That's so fucking twisted that it sounds correct.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. So this is what the ice (lack of ice) looks like at the North Pole
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yes. It is done. Thanks Cheney & Gang (BigOil).
I give up. News. Naw.
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razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. What did it look like in the 1700's?
Perry didn't get there till 1909.

And BTW no I don't advocate shitting where you eat. (pollution) I'm just pointing out the fact that our empirical data base is small in comparison to the history of the area.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Explorers have searched for a Northwest Passage since 1497
John Cabot was the first to try and sail over the top of North America, many followed since but none succeeded.
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razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Thats my understanding too.
Many tried in sailing vessels with not much more than a compass and a crude time piece to calculate their actual position.

They had to sail in the warmest time available and leave before any local freeze blocked their escape.

They did not have the luxury to linger and observe much.

That still doesn't preclude the possibility the cap has had this occurrence many times before in the modern times.

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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
21. Dear Santa Claus,
I'm sorry. I'm also mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it any more.
I'm selling my Porsche, and saving the money for an electric car and photovoltaics.

I hope you get this, as your mail has been redirected to solid land in the Bahamas.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. So Santa has oil
The elves have WMD's and a reindeer delivery system.

Sux to be them.

That article is sobering. It makes me queasy.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
27. Read the comments!!
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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. I put in my two cents.
:D
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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
29. K&R
It's very important that everyone sees this. It makes me want to cry.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. The human race is skating on thin ice.
I've shed enough tears over this. In fact, I've nursed a horrible headache today over this. I'm not kidding. I've taken this extremely seriously for many years. Most people simply don't want to think of how it absolutely requires a change in their lifestyle. Most people can't even see that population is the driving force when combined with modern consumption.

It's hard to witness. But now I have myself to preserve. Knowing and being happy are pretty damned hard for me to do, simultaneously.

On the other side of this, we're sitting ducks. The moment petroleum supplies slow down, this whole scheme we've got going comes crashing to a halt. Food, transportation...
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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. According to the article, we don't even have thin ice to skate on.
:(
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
30. "valuable oil and mineral deposits below (the ice cap)".
????
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
35. Holy Crap! Maybe that will make some people wake up.
Everyone needs to start changing their lifestyles ASAP.
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carlyhippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
38. poor polar bears
Carly
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
39. Massive Exxon-financed attack in the comments section.
They actually pay people to comment on articles such as this one. Go to any newspaper site or sports site and post something about global warming. You will see the same talking points that you see in the comments section of this article.
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. I was thinking the same thing nt
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Duke Newcombe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-27-08 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
42. Personally, I could actually go for a Disney Northwest Passage cruise.
Just saying.

Duke

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