Do you worship the rich? The Bill Gates story...

[JackRiddler]

I hereby submit the following editorial corrections to an article ("The BJ") about Bill Gates stepping down at Microsoft.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080622161814.w5...

The BJ:

A Harvard University dropout who ushered in the home computer age and made billions of dollars along the way will have his last official day of work at Microsoft on June 27.

The straight story:

It's the last day of work at Microsoft for the son of Seattle's richest family, who fooled IBM into granting him a monopoly on their PC operating systems, used brute-force tactics to drive superior products off the market, and piggybacked the rise of the home computer to the world's largest individual fortune.

The BJ:

Since Gate's (sic) began his transition from leading Microsoft to heading his personally-bankrolled charity, The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation , his job as chief software architect has been handled by Ray Ozzie.

The straight story:

In the time-honored tradition of American billionaires, Gates recently began his transformation from robber-baron to "philanthropist" by rolling his fortune over into a non-profit foundation to secure it against a possible return of the estate tax for many generations to come...

Gates's "garage" was financed to the tune of $1 million borrowed from his mom.

And now for a parable:

Henry Ford Surrenders Licensing Rights to Model-T Transmission

Historians will argue forever about what motivated Henry Ford to grant an obscure upstart the exclusive rights to produce and market the steering and transmission for the Model-T as a separate unit. Ford's folly is usually attributed to his era's general infatuation with the sheer power of internal combustion, which had only recently been unleashed. Engineers were enthralled by their ability to double maximum horsepower every 18 months, and tended to denigrate parts not involved in burning fuel as mere scrap metal.

Car bodies were begrudgingly understood as a necessary evil, insofar as the end-users required somewhere to sit while the powerful, highly sophisticated engine performed the real work. The car's "operating system" was derided as an appendage. It was therefore left to the retailers or end-users to install these components.

Almost no one anticipated that interfaces would soon come to be seen as the most essential parts of the car. The temporary licensing monopoly on the production of Model-T compatible drive-trains, freely granted by Ford, turned into an unprecedented bonanza for MetalloGear (MG), a Seattle-based mechanics garage started by the son of a lawyer who had acquired the rights to a "quick and dirty" transmission system.

MG was able to capture the lion's share of industry profits, outgrow the Ford Motor Company, and establish for several decades a hegemony over the entire culture of driving. Other automotive interface systems were swept aside by the MG juggernaut and its battalions of frivolous-tort lawyers, despite the constant break-downs and loss of driver miles that plagued every MG user.

Only the high-end complete cars produced by DeLorean were able to maintain a tenth of the market, mainly as the objects of cult adoration.

This really happened!

[ben_meyers]

1. No, do you envy them?

It seems that anyone successful is the subject of the unending wrath of many people.

[JackRiddler]

5. Beat me to it.

Was going to post that predictable canard preemptively, myself.

For the record, as one of them humans, I envy lots of people - don't you? Centerfielders, singers, rock guitarists, violinists, math geniuses, astronauts... I fantasize about doing what they do. And I wish I had Gandhi's patience and DeNiro's talent. But weirdly enough, I don't fantasize about being a robber baron.

So. If I envied him, would it mean Bill Gates was a self-made man and generous soul who should be held up to unconditional universal adulation as one of our greatest citizens and achievers of Good Things?

[ben_meyers]

11. I found a long time ago

That wishful thinking and envy are extremely counter productive and have tended to lay blame for my own failures and shortcomings on someone else.

For example, now that I have the time and resources to play a lot of golf, do I envy Tiger Woods game? That would be ridiculous as I haven't put in the time and effort nor do I have the physical talent to do so. Does that diminish his accomplishments? Of course not, and by the same token it also doesn't diminish what I have been able to do with my game.

Perhaps you should examine your own feelings of inadequacy before you denigrate others.

[Two Americas]

17. projection

Your personal drama is interesting, but you are projecting it onto others without any objective basis for doing that.

If Tiger Woods cheated, would you refrain from talking about that out for fear that you would be "envying" him if you did?

[DailyGrind51]

61. Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling, Bernie Ebbers, Dennis Kozlowski, Conrad Black, etc.

Became wealthy by cheating their shareholders and employees, rather than by inventing or a new product or improving an existing one. There is nothing enviable about those who gain through greed, dishonesty, and ruining the lives of others.

[Two Americas]

18. this sure changes everything

I guess we cannot criticize Republicans any more. After all, they have won quite a few elections over the last few years, and criticizing them would just be envying them for their success. That would be counter-productive, and would be laying the blame for our own failures and shortcomings on someone else.

Everything Bush has done is our fault. We need to stop envying him.

[JackRiddler]

19. Perhaps you should talk about Gates instead of distracting with Tiger Woods.

Implying that "envy" has anything to do with this thread is distracting from a discussion of Bill Gates and the way he gets BJs in the press. Go to a Republican board, and you will find lots of freeper types similarly claiming that people only say bad things about Bush and Cheney because of "hate" and "envy."

I do not blame anything in my life on Bill Gates, except of course for the many days I lost to Microsoft failures, before I switched to Macintosh. So, come to think of it, I have more of a legitimate personal beef against him than I do against Wal-Mart, since I never stepped inside one of those and they haven't invaded New York yet. Or General Dynamics, since so far their missiles only kill people far away from my house.

Of course, I should have made the switch to Mac years earlier, so Gates is only really responsible for the troubles I had with my first computer, not with the equally infuriating troubles I had with the next two Windows models I willingly bought, like a chump.

This post is about the undeserved adulation accorded to a whole class because they are rich, the Horatio Alger bullshit automatically told and accepted about how they "made themselves," the free PR given to their self-promotion as "philanthropists," etc. etc. And while you may not worship the rich yourself, you seem to approve the worship of the rich.

(PS-I enjoy fantasizing about being Tiger Woods, so don't take that away from me - or from him, since that's why lots of people watch him.)

[MyNameGoesHere]

62. Oy. Another person that hates their computer. Or vice versa. hey don't you

have some MAC guy commercials to watch?

[JackRiddler]

64. It could only be hate.

It couldn't be the same failures of Windows that everyone experiences regardless of their expertise. My 15 years of experience in DOS, the brief holiday of DR-DOS (driven from the market), then Windows 3.1 through 98, and then finally the liberation, the stable platform and compatibility with everything that Mac brings, this to you can only be a fashion decision? Who's the hater, here? Are you stuck writing code for MS platforms, dear?

[MyNameGoesHere]

65. No not at all "dear" i am just smarter than a bunch of silicon and

code. Sorry about that "dear". And it's not hate. I am 100% convinced that 95% of the populace should be banned from interacting with any smart device.

[JackRiddler]

66. What would that do to 95% of your icon's market?

[MyNameGoesHere]

67. I don't have an icon. But i am not dumber than a machine either.

You have, missed the point and I am sure it is because the MAC guy commercial was running in the background.

let me give you some reality.

My site is 90% Windows
about 5% MAC's
and a few percentages of Solaris/Posix. etc.

the only thing common among all that is 95% of the users are idiots.

[JackRiddler]

68. I got your point well enough...

as well as your unfounded arrogance and unwillingness to read mine, rather than project your prejudices about those who choose to escape MS (which I did some years before the Mac Guy was unveiled).

[MyNameGoesHere]

69. When faced with information technologies i tend not to run away scared.

Because it wasn't easy or what i liked it did not matter. You have freedom from MS? Well good for you whatever that means. It seems instead of choosing freedom you ran away and embraced the "I want the vendor to take absolute care and and do everything for me" crowd. yes that is certainly freedom vs those who overcome and adapt to a higher level of understanding.

[JackRiddler]

70. Now you seem to be a sad one...

You're acting like the cliche of a technician who looks down on all others as subhuman. This isn't about what one can understand about a technology, it's about what one wants to use that technology for. MS has always falsely marketed itself as a solution for end-users, and since Windows is not the machine itself but just a platform, it has required a constant defense of its position and measures to protect against incursions.

When in the past it hampered Netscape, harrassed me to join MSN, sprinkled ads all over my desktop, issued updates that ate all resources and forced me to buy a new system, reset itself to defaults I had changed, or simply crashed forcing a reformatting -- an annual occurrence -- I tended to find solutions to these problems and recover or already have backed up lost data. So what? I'm a writer, I don't want to be a programmer, or waste my time with this shit, or download more junk from MS to deal with the latest security breach or virus. Why should consumers serve as beta testers for MS's latest bloated OS? To show I have a really long dick compared to the average computer user, or to be accepted into the narrow range of the 5% whom the likes of you considers worthy of being allowed even to touch the precious machine? (You've made it clear, you don't worship Gates; you worship machines, or your own facility with them. Bully for you.)

So now I have a Mac and it just works, and your contempt at those simple words is laughable. Mac OS runs software by other companies without trouble, something that was never the case with MS, it's stable, it doesn't cram company promotion down my throat, and it stays out of my goddamn way. Now there's beauty.

[MyNameGoesHere]

73. Not subhuman, just incabable or unwilling to

meet your responsibility in the IT world. They call it a PERSONAL computer for a reason you know. But hey I have a 100 or so people just like you. They can only bash and hate a vendor instead of learning something. personally i wish all technology would go away and people can start using slide rules again. At least then you can't complain about design.

[JackRiddler]

74. So gross! And yet compelling as a train wreck:

I refer to the telling divide between your apparent self-image and your obvious lack of essential skills (as evidenced by your repetition of the same line three or four times, as though you didn't read or understand a thing I wrote). How do you do it?

So, I've understood. We all have a sacred responsibility in the IT world, which is not to acquire the computer we prefer, but rather to overpay for the privilege of being a beta-tester for Microsoft! Anyone who experiences problems with their system is just a moron, they should have their keyboard license pulled. Tell me, in your prior career, did you write torts for Microsoft?



Best moment in Microsoft history, ever:

Intro of the new Windows. Hall of 1,000 reporters and geeks. Bill Gates at the projector to make a visual presentation. With a flourish, he unveils the product, revealing a sight familiar to everyone in the room: a crash screen.



(God, it's so unfair! How dare I espouse my views, I can't even write a line of C++.)

[MyNameGoesHere]

76. Funny i use Windows sometimes

and that never happens to me. So instead of being smarter than a 5 year old i am smarter than my computer. Oh sorry you are not.

[JackRiddler]

77. Funny, it's what happened to Gates when he unveiled Windows 98.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/81138.stm

Bill Gates crashes Windows 98

The chairman of Microsoft, Bill Gates, has unveiled his company's new operating system, Windows 98, at a computer fair in Chicago.

The system, which is due to go on sale in June, will replace Windows 95.

Mr Gates says Windows 98 will make it easier for both private and business users to operate their computers.

That wasn't the case at the unveiling -- the system he was using crashed half way through his demonstration.

From the newsroom of the BBC World Service

Guess Gates is not "smarter" than his computer either. (Hint: You can't be smarter or dumber than an inanimate object.)

How old are you, by the way? For your sake, I'm hoping the answer is no more than 13.

[MyNameGoesHere]

80. hey i would love to play but i need to help

a user select a new MAC. We will spend 2.5 times as much on this system that we pay for desktops. And it will do no more or less productive than our current platforms. But at least someone will get a warm fuzzy knowing they are using a superior platform. Too bad they took away funding for something that makes better business sense and could actually help the company.

But then again Apple isn't a monopoly, i can run MAC OS on all of my machines with no problem. Oh wait, i can but it isn't very pleasant and it isn't legal. Damn there must be something to make MAC superior? Hmmm. Well maybe it is the nice MAC commercials. yeah that's it.

[JackRiddler]

81. I see why you sound so bitter. Must suck not to be the boss.

Your company's made a decision, and I doubt it was because of a commercial, but that's not my concern. I know I'm reasonably satisfied with my switch to Mac after 15 years of Microhell, which occurred long before the commercials to which you refer, and your contempt for non-programmers doesn't really change my assessment of which is the better choice for me. Thanks for playing.

[MyNameGoesHere]

83. Bitter because i am not the boss?

Oh boy what an elitist statement coming from a MAC person i am shocked. oh no i am not. being the IT department manager i am responsible for many things. Including satisfying the insecurities of users that seem to think they know everything and that MAC is the only thing that could possibly work. i humor them because really they don't know any better. let me ask you a question oh wonderful enlightened one of everything IT and me. How many different types of OS's and hardware platforms can you successfully maintain? I am guessing you know that MAC and everything else is inferior so you couldn't possibly use it. Anyway you and the other 4.99999% of you guys have a great day using your MAC's. In the meantime I have to bring a blade online. And it isn't a MAC, i am sorry. But MAC Server OS is just a shitty product.

[JackRiddler]

84. ad infinitum - invincible.

You're determined to turn this into a discussion of computer expertise, which isn't the point, although you do manage nicely to ignore any points I make along the way. You're distracting from the fact that MS misled consumers for many years as to its practicality or stability. (You aren't going to fool me otherwise, since I have, as a user, employed both systems.) You are so far from the point as a professional IT worker that you think spending hours and hours setting up your machine is a badge of honor. No, it's your job: good for you. But on the one-machine level MS systems force consumers to have such a job for no pay. You're incapable of seeing it from the consumer's point of view. Anyway, no one's reading this subthread. SO GO, HAVE THE LAST WORD!!!

[MyNameGoesHere]

85. Hours and hours setting up a machine?

Wow you are in trouble. In the first of this year i rolled out a few hundred machines and it only took about 20-30 minutes per machine. But then again i can take technology and use it effectively to make my life easier. Maybe you are right though and i should just sit around and be bitter and angry that MS is not the best company around. Or when the CEO asks me to add additional systems that are MS i should tell him no because MS is unfair and they are greedy. We should buy the systems that are 2 times as expensive and only work on proprietary hardware. Then i could push a totally closed platform that will not let other systems use their OS. MAC is fair? If MAC is the god send of the technical world why won't they license their OS to me so i can load it on a platform of my choice? How is that ethical? CAN you say closed?

I have no problems with MAC Linux Solaris Windows BeOS SkyOS Zeta DOS Amiga or any of the other 100 or so OS's. They all work to some degree or other. What i have a problem with is a MAC person talking shit when their company is the epitome of closed source.

[northernlights]

86. I never hated my computer

only that Gates used brute force to shove his crappy software down the throat of Digital Equipment, and we workerbees had beautifully functioning email software (not just All-in-1 do-it-all-for-us, but VTX code it yourself too) thrown out and replaced with totally nonfunctioning expressmail or whatever the fuck they called it.

For me, it translated to months on sneakernet and driving floppy disks around from client site to client site.

Not to mention the vastly overhyped Word s/w that literally turned my 50 page white paper into alphabet soup in front of my eyes.

Not to mention the vastly overhyped Word s/w that never was going to perform up to its hype, according to their own s/w engineers, leaving me with a client who fell for their bullshit screaming at me *and* running to my manager, forcing her to take the project away and give it to a peer-wanna be. Who also, naturally, couldn't force the s/w to do what it was never going to do. Not that I ever got any apologies or anything.

Gate's crappy s/w made my working life worse effing hell than it already was, probably taking a few years off my life. His tactics helped force many good companies out of business, including the one where I built my career for 17 years.

I despise Bill Gates. He wants to be a philanthropist? Why not give back to the country that enabled him to become so wealthy, instead of giving it to the other side of the world?

[readmoreoften]

33. Go pawn your racist pro-rich boy crap somewhere else. Yeah. I said racist.

You think your comment isn't racist? Then why are African Americans largely poorer than whites? Is it "the failures and shortcomings" of African Americans as a whole?

I'm doing just fine thanks and I don't want a billion dollars. Because no one deserves thousands of millions of dollars. Gates is not "that smart" nor did he work "that hard." He just screwed over people with his daddy's money and had other people's good ideas killed so he could get rich too. No real gift to humanity there. Just more of the game.

Are you jealous of criminals? Do you really want to own all the water in Cochabamba so little kids die of thirst? Am I supposed to celebrate the Carlyle Group and Halliburton for their resounding success at sucking money out of Iraq and off US tax payers? I hear Blackwater is doing really well. I guess anyone who criticizes them is just jealous too. Should I celebrate their accomplishments?

If you believe that people who are rich have worked hard and people who are poor are lazy failures, then you're not only a racist, you're blind to the world.

[Deja Q]

45. Hey, nobody has told you to show proof he's screwed people over!!!1!!1!!112

[JackRiddler]

48. Thank you for waking me up out of my daze...

Why was I being so polite? See, I always want to grant critics their due. But you are sooooo right.

The thing is, right as you are, the poster you are responding to probably would never agree with your other examples. I mean, he probably agrees it's wrong to make money by owning the water in Chupacubra and selling it to the highest bidder (only). See, those are examples wherein it's much harder to deceive. Gates belongs to a magical group who supposedly "made themselves" through having an idea that no one else could have possibly conceived (scam IBM into giving me their future revenues because they haven't figured out the importance of the PC yet, hard as that is to believe) and he is celebrated as one of the individual totems or demigods of American capitalism.

[Hannah Bell]

35. Is there some falsehood in what the man posted?

For the record, when WHG was born, his maternal grandfather (the banker) set up a million-dollar trust fund for him.

and, for the record also, his maternal great-grandfather was also a banker, in the pay of railroad trusts, & running with Morgan & Rockefeller associates.

one of the banks bill gates' g-g-pa headed, involved in interesting international transactions, like this one with "russo-chinese bank" in 1916 (the eve of the russian revolution):

http://supreme.justia.com/us/241/403/case.html

paternal g-gpa: state legislator, mayor.

Bill Gates' connections and $ ARE the reason for 90% of his "success." He sure wasn't any computer genius. He could buy other people's work, he had insider info on business trajectories, & he had corporate connections.

The stale psychology (used to denigrate anyone who makes a critique of power & influence) doesn't wash.

[Hannah Bell]

37. blah-blah-blah.

some people worship power, & can't even bear factual correctives to the horatio alger mythologizing of power.

the kind of guys who, in college, thought all girls would be impressed because they had whatever kind of expensive car was currently deemed hot by the commericial propagandists.

perhaps YOU should examine why you can't stand to read a factual discussion of bill gates' real background before YOU denigrate others with half-baked psychology.

[JackRiddler]

49. thanks. wonder if ben_meyers will post again?

That was a bit of a pile-on, but it wouldn't make me happy to merely win this argument. The thing is, this is one of the easiest arguments in the world to win, however people never seem to get it anyway.

[Two Americas]

10. what idiocy

Would you ask if we envy thieves and suggest that is why we think they should be stopped?

[ben_meyers]

12. See above

And please provide clue as to how Gates is a thief.

[Two Americas]

16. didn't say he was

I didn't say he was. A little defensive there. Are you related to the man or something? Own a lot of stock in the company? Work for the company?

Can no successful people ever be criticized in your view?

[Deja Q]

44. I'll intervene

Google is your friend. You'll find a LOT. Some more credible than others.

Amongst other things, Microsoft used to force vendors to buy a MS license for every PC they sold; regardless if the PC was to run DOS/WIndows or another product (Unix, Novell, OS/2, et al).

For every license that was sold on a computer not running it, many would claim that was stealing, cheating, extortion, whatever.

While Microsoft products were fairly standard back then, there were plenty of reasons to get a non-MS operating system.

Microsoft got caught with that tactic in 1994.

Hasn't stopped them from being clever, but that's a moot point.

[Hannah Bell]

36. right, it's just envy. everyone wishes to own as much wealth (& have as much power)

as several countries do, & thinks that a completely satisfactory arrangement.

[Deja Q]

43. Define 'success'.

(From 1977)

His actions frequently courted the courts because they were unethical when not illegal.

That's not envy nor wrath. Microsoft has a history of acts that tarnish such success. Now that any real opposition is gone, it's all a moot point. At least he's benevolent.

[Tab]

2. Um, what's your point?

I've followed his career (just being in the industry) since the early days, but I'm happy he's realized he has more money than anyone really needs and has created a foundation for health resources, and has gotten Warren Buffet to go along with it. I don't know what more you can ask.

I don't always like Microsoft (in fact, rarely) but given the industry and circumstances, they're not out of the ordinary in many departments as far as what they're trying to accomplish with what they have. Make no mistake - I have many complaints - but I'm happy Bill has set up a foundation for charitable reasons. Who the hell needs $100 billion dollars? Do something good with it.

[Deja Q]

4. Seconded.

As much as the company has done unpalatable things, they've been equally palatable at other times too.

[EOTE]

56. And that article seems really confused.

Talking about how much Bill Gates wants to skirt the Estate Tax, that just seems rather silly. Bill Gates has long been a supporter of INCREASING the Estate Tax, specifically because he doesn't think people like himself need any more money. There are valid criticisms of Bill Gates to be made, but to insult him for giving away billions of dollars of his own money is pretty stupid. He's also been a staunch opponent of dynasties, which is why his children are only getting a small fraction of a percent of his remaining wealth after he's contributed his billions to the B&M Gates Foundation.

[JackRiddler]

71. All of what you claim is also true of the Rockefellers.

Individually the Rockefellers haven't owned a thing in generations except through shell companies and their complex of "non-profit" foundations. They "gave it all away," generations ago. So how come they're still among the super-rich and primary movers of the global political economy, generations later? No one has a clue what they're really worth.

Foundations are a way for the super-rich protect their fortunes against possible threats of expropriation through multiple generations, come snow or shine in the political conditions.

The Gates family can support the estate tax and the older, kinder system (i.e., support a return to the pre-neoliberal status quo) because they're enlightened enough to think the society will be more stable that way in the long run. Meanwhile, they know what goes into their foundations is likely to be secured against government seizures and political upheavals. That's the point.

They didn't give away a thing. The foundation is still under their control. It constitutes a vast and diversified investment vehicle designed to keep growing in total size. Even if it awards a billion in grants every year, its assets are not supposed to decline! And these grants are selected to influence developments in given directions. Grants are the way for the superrich to set agendas for the world. Even when the grants go to causes you consider good, it's still under their control, and from their perspective that's the point. They keep the power.

I don't get how the super-rich have been doing this for more than a century and so many people seem not to have caught on. Every time a robber baron undergoes the mystical transformation to philanthropist it's treated as an individual and unprecedented event, and he's lauded for "giving it all away."

[Hannah Bell]

72. "My goal is to own nothing, & control everything."

Ownership has risks.

Good summary. You should make it into an original post.

Say something negative @ gates here & the worshippers come out in force.

[JackRiddler]

75. Do you have an attribution on that quote?

I recall it from elsewhere... thanks!

[JackRiddler]

6. If you'd followed the career of all robber barons past...

you'd realize they all created foundations as the means to preserve their fortunes for generations to come. Do you think the Rockefellers and Carnegies are really philanthropists?

[OhioChick]

8. As for that "Charitable Foundation" you speak of......

Dark cloud over good works of Gates Foundation

Published January 7, 2007


Ebocha, Nigeria - Justice Eta, 14 months old, held out his tiny thumb.

An ink spot certified that he had been immunized against polio and measles, thanks to a vaccination drive supported by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

But polio is not the only threat Justice faces. Almost since birth, he has had respiratory trouble. His neighbors call it "the cough." People blame fumes and soot spewing from flames that tower 300 feet into the air over a nearby oil plant. It is owned by the Italian petroleum giant Eni, whose investors include the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

Justice squirmed in his mother's arms. His face was beaded with sweat caused either by illness or by heat from the flames that illuminate Ebocha day and night. Ebocha means "city of lights."

The makeshift clinic at a church where Justice Eta was vaccinated and the flares spewing over Ebocha represent a head-on conflict for the Gates Foundation. In a contradiction between its grants and its endowment holdings, a Times investigation has found, the foundation reaps vast financial gains every year from investments that contravene its good works.


More at: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/la-na-gatesx07ja...



<snip> In addition, The Times found the Gates Foundation endowment had major holdings in:

Companies ranked among the worst U.S. and Canadian polluters, including ConocoPhillips, Dow Chemical Co. and Tyco International Ltd.

Seems like a "charitable foundation" that does more harm than good.

[Hannah Bell]

38. tax shelter & policy-making arm for bill gates, inc, you mean.

testing drugs in the third world, where human subjects requirements are less onerous, you mean.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

60. Well since you're in the industry

Maybe when your job is outsourced to an H1B visa holder for a much lower salary, which is one of Bill's pet projects right now, you'll get a job mopping the floors at his wonderful charitable foundation.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Gate's mother connected IBM & Gates in the first place.

This was hardly a self made man deal. Gates is basically the luckiest incompetent know nothing that ever lived.

[Wiley50]

14. I'd say that one is a toss up with George W actually n/t

[judy]

23. Wow, this is quite over the top...

Saying Bill Gates is a toss up with George W? Hm....let's see...

Bill Gates I would believe is a ruthless, extremely successful businessman, and his company did do some things that were not very ethical, and they got sued for it. He turned opportunity into what became the most successful software company, and became the richest man on earth at a fairly young age, making millionaires out of his employees. How did he do it? He must have had some savvy of some kind...Now, he is using his money to deliver mosquito nets in order to protect children in Africa against Malaria, and to help with the distribution of generic drugs against AIDS.

George W on the other hand, is a failed businessman, who was given every single opportunity and turned them all into dismal failures. He ordered the killing of thousand of people most of them innocent, by lying about the reasons why he was doing it. His first act in office was to put a gag order on reproductive education in Africa thus helping to increase the spread of AIDS.

How can you say the two are alike?
Corporations are heartless and ruthless...but let's stay sane here, OK? There is no comparison here.

Plus, in 1996, Bill Gates invested $150 million in Apple which was going down the drain at the time to keep it afloat. Not out of the goodness of his heart to be sure, but in a wise move...When did you ever see George W do a wise thing?

[JackRiddler]

24. Thanks for a fact-oriented post in Gates's defense...

Even if you're leaving some things out.

[Hannah Bell]

39. "He must have had some savvy"

money & connections always look like "savvy" to the rubes.

[judy]

55. Yep, I am a rube all right....

Give me money and connections, and I'll probably squander it by making the wrong decisions at every turn...
You sound like you know better. All power to ya

[Hannah Bell]

59. I don't know better, but I know there were thousands of garage

start-ups during the same time, but only 1 became the market leader, & it was the most well-connected one.

[judy]

78. "Garage startups"?

Are you confusing Microsoft and Hewlett Packard?
And you must know better, to actually know among thousands of startups, which one exactly was the most connected one...
Were you around at the time? Did you witness the change from CP/M to DOS?

[yewberry]

7. No, I don't.

I also don't resent them.

So you know, the B&MGF gives about $800 million annually toward global health initiatives. They gave over $2 billion in grants last year, and more than $16 billion toward global health, global development, and education over the life of the foundation.

No need for quotes around philanthropist. Also, Bill Sr. campaigned publicly against the repeal of the estate tax.'

[raccoon]

53. To his credit.

"Bill Sr. campaigned publicly against the repeal of the estate tax."

But that was Bill Gates' FATHER, not Bill Gates himself.

[applegrove]

9. I don't worship Bill Gates because he is rich. I worship him now because of his

foundation and what he is doing for Africa amongst other places.

[Disturbed]

13. I don't worship anyone.

I am not envious of wealthy people.

[OhioChick]

30. See Post #8. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

40. oh, yeah. testing drugs in africa, on kids, too. it's great.

Scuse me, we already know how to prevent malaria, & most of the diseases Gates is funding: cleaning out the vectors, clean water, sanitation, nutrition, basic living standards. Gates ain't funding those things.

He's funding salaries for pharmaceutical researchers & first world NGOs to do clinical trials on poor people who don't have the power to make a stink if there are unforseen side effects. And, surprise, surprise, he's investing in pharmaceuticals.




Malaria Clinical Trials Alliance Supported By New $17 Million ...Apr 25, 2006 ... "Strengthening clinical trials facilities in Africa is key to achieving the ... "This investment by the Gates Foundation is not only a major ...
www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/42147.php - 58k - Cached - Similar pages

Supporting Development of a Vaccine for Malaria, the Deadliest ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
development and to clinical trials. Second, it conducts research and. builds relationships with key health .... of trials in Africa will be necessary to ...
www.gatesfoundation.org/nr/downloads/aboutus/learning/M... - Similar pages

Announcements - Bill & Melinda Gates FoundationNew Alliance to Build African Capacity for Malaria Drug and Vaccine Research. Malaria Clinical Trials Alliance is supported by new $17-million Bill ...
www.gatesfoundation.org/GlobalHealth/Pri_Diseases/Malar... - 41k - Cached - Similar pages
More results from www.gatesfoundation.org »

$22.6 million Gates foundation grant targets new treatment for ...May 22, 2006 ... The Gates foundation grant will enable an international research consortium led by UNC faculty to complete a Phase III clinical trial of the ...
www.unchealthcare.org/site/newsroom/news/2006/May/gates... - 31k - Cached - Similar pages

The European and Developing Countries Clinical Trials Partnership ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Clinical Trials Partnership (EDCTP) and the. Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation launch a. 20 M Euro call to develop HIV vaccine trial. capacity in Africa ...
www.hivvaccineenterprise.org/_dwn/news/EDCTP_PressRelea... - Similar pages

Compound might defeat African sleeping sickness, clinical trial ...In Phase II clinical trials, a new oral drug, DB289, demonstrated safety and high ... The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is supporting the work, ...
www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/medizin_gesundh... - 39k - Cached - Similar pages

Malaria | Gates Foundation tackles a giant that preys on Africa's ...The company also recently retooled a production plant at its own expense to crank out doses for the clinical trials — and, Ballou hopes, initial sales. ...
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/malaria/2003897861_malariatanzania09.html - 66k - Cached - Similar pages

African Technology Development Forum - The Bill & Melinda Gates ...The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is to inject a $107.6 million grant into the ... The clinical trials will be conducted in several African countries. ...
www.atdforum.org/spip.php?breve63 - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

INDEPTH Network - MCTAApr 25, 2006 ... The funding that we have received from the Gates Foundation, ... “Strengthening clinical trials facilities in Africa is key to achieving the ...
www.indepth-network.org/mcta/2006MCTAAnnounce.htm - 14k - Cached - Similar pages

[OhioChick]

42. Thanks for the info, Hannah. n/t

[JackRiddler]

50. Yes, thank you for this.

I haven't brought up this point because I haven't studied it enough, but it's right away suspicious when the Gates foundation says it's going to help Africa not through encouraging development (and thus eliminating vectors, which is 90% of the problem) but through cure research. In practice, as you show, it's largely about pharmaceutical experiments on poor Africans.

Plus Gates is part of this laptop for every child initiative, which I don't know if it's benefitting Microsoft (one expects, but maybe not) but is simply bizarre and technologically fetishist in a world that lacks WATER and FOOD for every child.

[A HERETIC I AM]

15. I call bullshit on the "MG" reference

"MetalloGear" does not return one hit on Google, and the history of the Automobile Industry is extremely well documented.

The MG most people are familiar with is a British Sports car company and the letters stand for "Morris Garage".

[JackRiddler]

20. (Oh, my god, this is too good.)

No, it really happened. Everyone knows about Henry Ford and MetalloGear. Are you kidding me?!

[AZ Criminal JD]

21. Check the word "parable" above the Ford story

Although I don't share the OP's obvious anger towards Gates.

[JackRiddler]

22. all the angry people... grrr!! is it hormones?

[AlCzervik]

25. I don't think i actually envy anyone, maybe i do but i just can't think of someone

off the top of my head.

I have a wonderful husband and a really great daughter, like i almost can't believe she's my kid. In terms of my personal life i'm a happy person, i have what i need and there really isn't anything material wise i want. Hmm, maybe i'm doing something wrong?

[JackRiddler]

26. Okay, why is this thread about "envy"? I thought it was about Gates.

[AlCzervik]

27. ok why would i worship him? I guess maybe i'm not clear on your question.

[JackRiddler]

28. Just read it and comment or not. Thank you.

[AlCzervik]

29. i read it already and the answer is no.

[madinmaryland]

63. Can you remove that pic from your sig line??

[AlCzervik]

79. of course i can, but i won't.

[Two Americas]

31. such a shame

I only wish that the homeless and suffering people here in the country had such zealous defenders as the wealthy and powerful do. Among Democrats. That would be something.

[JackRiddler]

32. The thing that really set me off about the BJ...

was the utterly stupid and ignorant remark that he started the personal computer age.

Sure. And Edison invented electricity. (Tesla who?) Rockefeller created oil. There would have been no cars without Ford. And so on...

[readmoreoften]

34. Somewhere among the world's impoverished majority are a group smart enough to cure cancer.

Instead they'll get shot, starve, be worked to death, or never get to go to school. Meanwhile rich kids will be doing all the cocaine that the poor kids get shot and imprisoned for and screw around at keg parties through college only to land at a 6 figure job they complain about.

I have a rich friend who after doing nothing for 4 years out of college got a 6 figure corporate job with a hand typed mis-formated resume that showed he barely graduated.

[MedleyMisty]

41. I brought that up on a forum for gifted adults

Although of course most of them are self-identified and I seriously doubt their self-assessments.

I actually got the "beautiful mind" response. "Oh, I just don't want to think about people who don't have opportunities."

I have no idea why I still post there - I guess for the same reason I read flame wars on here. Observing how other people think and feel.

[JackRiddler]

46. The weird thing is, and I'm not being ironic or disrespectful here...

Is that there are people on the ostensible left of center who will say that the way to change that is to wait for a billionaire to save them with his generosity. (And there are people on the right who will insist that if the billionaires are only made richer, opportunity will trickle down to them, there is no other way.)

[MedleyMisty]

57. I am guessing that those "left of center" people who argue for that

do worship rich people. Or if not rich people in specific, they worship capitalism and social Darwinism. Which would personally make me question the "left of center" thing, but then hey - what we call neoconservative is known as neoliberal in other parts of the world.

[JackRiddler]

58. Perhaps I wasn't entirely clear.

I think I was, but I'd like to try it in other words:

Mainstream and right-wing worshippers of the rich want to make them richer so the riches trickle down to everyone, because it's only thanks to the rich that riches exist, and only through their investments that any of us have anything, so we must protect their riches for it is the only hope of the world's poor. The poor are practical and understand how great the rich are and therefore are ill-served by liberal do-gooders who interfere with the making richer of the rich. (Never mind if that wasn't logical - you've seen the argument a million times.)

Left-of-center (not really left) worshippers of the rich either
a) latch on to some modern or progressive-sounding PR, like "Do No Evil," or all the "greenwashing" going on where polluters claim to be environmentalists; or
b) come to love the rich in their post-rich phase, in which they declare themselves philanthropists and dole out money to ostensibly progressive causes. Everyone wants a foundation grant, it's a fact of life, right?
Bill Gates gets a bonus for a bit of both:
a) because Microsoft presented as progressive workplace, the "campus" flexible work model, anything to do with computers etc.;
b) because of the Gates foundation and his Democratic leanings.

Real leftists don't worship the rich, period.

They are instead famously susceptible to worshipping stars, icons and political leaders like George Clooney, Che and Chavez.

[mmonk]

47. No.

However, the dollar bill is the American god, greed is its creed, and corporations are its high priest.

[JackRiddler]

51. Corporations are churches...

Unfortunately, there are preacher positions for "self-made" individuals: Buffet, Trump, Gates, Welch et al., they all have so much wisdom to give the world.

[mmonk]

52. Well I guess most Churches are indeed incorporated here.

[JackRiddler]

54. I see, it works both ways; churches are corps, corps are churches.

[warren pease]

82. I'd rather eat them. There's this recipe...

Nothing quite like a slightly out of shape white businessman, bloated with smug self-satisfaction, roasted on a spit over a bed of coals with an apple in his mouth and an Hermes tie trussing his feet and hands.

Meanwhile roast some red potatoes for about 45 minutes.

While they're roasting, pour a couple of tablespoons extra virgin olive oil into a large frying pan. Saute a little garlic with some mushrooms and some green onions

When the rich guy's done, remove him from the spit, carve as you would a large hog, serve with the roasted potatoes and the sauteed vegetables, and prepare yourself for a four-star meal in a one-star cabin.

They're great as leftovers, too. In fact, one rich guy will feed a family of four for a week or more, given a little kitchen creativity. Soups, casseroles, the infamous "rich guy surprise"... let your imagination run wild.


Bon appetit,

wp

[JackRiddler]

87. tch, tch.

Why do you hate?