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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:10 PM
Original message
Most complex crop circle ever discovered in British fields -- Telegraph
Doubtful whether a pair of drunken RAF noncoms could figure this one out.



The circle is a coded representation of pi to the 10th significant figure



Most complex crop circle ever discovered in British fields

By Richard Savill
The Telegraph (UK)
Last Updated: 12:40PM BST 17/06/2008

The most complex, "mind-boggling" crop circle ever to be seen in Britain has been discovered in a barley field in Wiltshire.

The circle is a coded representation of pi to the 10th significant figure
The formation, measuring 150ft in diameter, is apparently a coded image representing the first 10 digits, 3.141592654, of pi.

It is has appeared in a field near Barbury Castle, an iron-age hill fort above Wroughton, Wilts, and has been described by astrophysicists as "mind-boggling".

Michael Reed, an astrophysicist, said: "The tenth digit has even been correctly rounded up. The little dot near the centre is the decimal point.

Article continuesadvertisement
"The code is based on 10 angular segments with the radial jumps being the indicator of each segment.

"Starting at the centre and counting the number of one-tenth segments in each section contained by the change in radius clearly shows the values of the first 10 digits in the value of pi."

CONTINUED...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat...



These things are fascinating. Any ideas?
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. A couple of drunks, maybe not. But these guys?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Don't be silly. It's absolutely impossible for a group of dedicated, intelligent
artists to mock up a design on a computer, and then enact it.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Are they claiming to make those?
From what I understand, theirs break the stalks. The unexplained ones are bent.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. ...that is silly.
"It is impossible for *humans* to bend crops!"
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
53. Putting quote marks around your words still makes them yours.
What I referred to: One of the main difference between known man-made crop circles and origin unknown ones are the bending versus broken stalks.



I asked if the people at circlemakersexplained.com were claiming to have made the examples in their photos.

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. You are saying that nobody has been known to bend stalks?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. bend stalks without ANY damage to them and they continue to grow
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Yes. Are you saying that nobody has ever bent wheat? Because I can go out and do that right now.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. that isn't what I said at all
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. So, given that people can clearly bend wheat, what's your case?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. You must not know anything about the subject so you really shouldn't be discussing it
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. So, prove us wrong. Prove that crop circles could not be made by humans.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. some are made by humans others are not
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 05:03 PM by seemslikeadream
Crop circles are formations found in fields of wheat, barley, or other crops. Wheat stalks bend over and still continue to grow. Scientists have discovered that this could have been done by intense heat applied for a split second. People who have tried to fake crop circles can only break the wheat by crushing it with planks of wood.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. So your evidence that humans cannot make crop circles is "others are not."
Well, that's convincing.
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Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #85
191. Look, you are repeatedly ignoring his arguement for crop circles.
He's said over and over again what his argument is, and you just ignore it. Address this part:

"Crop circles are formations found in fields of wheat, barley, or other crops. Wheat stalks bend over and still continue to grow. Scientists have discovered that this could have been done by intense heat applied for a split second. People who have tried to fake crop circles can only break the wheat by crushing it with planks of wood."

And I am someone who doesn't believe aliens create crop circles. It's just a little maddening the way you're arguing with this guy.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #191
194. It's already been pointed out that breaking/cruching wheat with planks isn't the only way
Numerous other and non-destructive methods have been deployed in the creation of circles, but this is ignored. There's no evidence presented that it must be the result of 'intense heat applied for a split second'. If the poster were as convinced of this idea as you suggest, s/he would have followed it up by now instead of making these endless hit'n'run posts.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #191
271. "you are repeatedly ignoring his argument" - that's exactly the point
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #271
286. The Hidden Hand!
GAWD I love everything Wino has ever done. Good to see a fan here :)

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #286
302. Hell yeah! I even have old Saint Vitus tattoos
I'd have to cite Spirit Caravan as my top Wino-band pick. Luckily I caught them a few times, once on their own, another w/Place of Skulls.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #191
284. Which scientists?
I want names, or a published article.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #191
305. Because I have no respect for him?
Edited on Thu Jun-19-08 08:39 PM by seemslikeadream
How's that for an excuse?

on edit:

That was before this post now all is right with the world

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #305
306. ..

Glad you picked up on that. Glad I figured it out too. :rofl:

:hi:
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #82
123. If not humans, then....?

I'm sorry if I missed it in this thread, but who or what are the potential alternatives to humans that you're referring to?

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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #82
129. lol, wtf else is there but humans?
did I miss some big discovery?
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #82
150. That's just not true.
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 06:38 PM by Marr
If it's dry, you might break more, sure. It's easy to bend wheat. I've specifically seen a person do this with a plank of wood, just bending the wheat as they went.

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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #82
231. You should really start crediting your posts to their original authors.
Maybe even give a link, like a good journalist would.
The occasions are really adding up, SLAD.

www.cybercilious.com/vimana/articles/crop.htm
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. LOL - you should talk
You haven't presented any evidence yet, but you say other people don't know what they're talking about. Right.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. You present me with evidence that all these crop circles were made by humans
Where are all the arrests of people trespassing
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. Sure. They have websites and everything.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #94
239. Why the righteous indignation?
What is it about even thinking about crop circles, let alone different from what you believe, make you so angry?

Please, it's only a picture.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #239
250. I think you're projecting just a wee bit much.
"Sure, they have websites and everything" is not exactly unbridled rage.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #239
272. Have you ever checked out the DU's 9/11 "dungeon?" Righteous indignation...
...over anything conspiratorial is what some of these posters thrive on...big time.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #78
97. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #53
199. That's just what you want to believe.
It has no basis in science.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #199
245. I tried following what the thing's design is doing...
... Starting at the center: A line goes out a short ways and then makes a right turn and begins to spiral out. At various points around the circumference of the spiral, another little line goes out and enlarges the spiral. Apparently, each spot has a mathematical significance. Here's another one, not like the other one:



I wish I were smart enough to understand it all. I could and would explain this better. All I can really say about it is that it's beautiful. Perhaps that's its real story.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes
Some smart people figured out how to display this representation of pi. Then they got out the rope and boards and made it.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. you are sorely mistaken
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 04:20 PM by seemslikeadream
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Love your reasoning /nt
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. That's just my initial reaction
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 04:22 PM by seemslikeadream
I'll be back with more way more
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Gee, I'm impressed. /nt
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Hey just give me a fucking minute here buddy
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Yeah, they show that one in the video I posted.
"how to make a crop circle."
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pt22 Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
86. How to make a Venetian blind
poke his eyes out

:rofl:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. and I'm actually not out to impress you any way
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
188. In that, you've succeeded beyond your wildest dreams!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. ............
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 04:32 PM by seemslikeadream
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Aliens left these markings outside my house...


I know some folks say that people can make these markings too. But with such intricate detail? And in the middle of the night? Yeah, right.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. You can not compare the two and you know that
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 04:41 PM by seemslikeadream



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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Why not?
What's the big difference?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. If you can't see a difference
then you are a lost cause and I will no longer respond to you bye


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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. It's just a different style of art, is all
I could scan and upload a bunch of old photos from my rave days showing all kinds of cool psychedelic art that we used to hang on the wall at psychedelic trance parties because it looked good on acid, but the actual painting was done by stoned hippies with flourescent paints that we bought in a shop and a book of cool geometric patterns to help draw them on the fabric.

Frankly, I'm a lot more impressed by the behavior you get from a few simple equations than the idea of aliens leaving graffiti in our food.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. Where in the hell did you EVER see me post that aliens are making these?
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #63
87. Well obviously you think some higher intelligence is making them
aliens, earth spirits, whatever you want to call it.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. You have no clue as to what I believe is making these circles
and that's your problem
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #91
99. Then share your thoughts with us, please (nm)
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #91
100. Well, maybe you'll eventually get around to telling us
Of course you could have done that in your first message but that would have meant getting your thoughts in order.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. No sir or madam you have been jumping to conclusions from the very beginning
THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #102
126. I'm not the one jumping in to tell people they're wrong with no explanation.
To be honest, it seems sort of a rude way to start a conversation, compared to 'i disagree, because...'
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #63
140. Here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
"some are made by humans others are not"

Or at least you contend that they are not made by humans. What's left?

a) Aliens
b) Animals
c) Insects
d) Fish with SCAWBA (Self Contained Above Water Breathing Apparatus) gear
e) Self aware mobile computer with a wicked sense of humor
f) 'Unexplained phenomenon'
f1-n) I suppose that the following would fall into this category: magic, spiritual forces, ghosts, god consciousness, crystal power, etc.

So if it's not humans that are making them, who or what is? Something on that list? Something else? :shrug:


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #140
144. nope sorry try again
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #144
149. It's not a guessing game
At this point it's quite apparent that you enjoy trolling for reactions.

Have a nice life. Oh yeah, don't forget your door prize on your way out:


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #149
158. whatever
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #158
160. Ditto.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #160
164. .........
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #164
167. She's melting!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #167
172. It would take way more than you
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 07:03 PM by seemslikeadream
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #172
174. Crop circles are created with psychedelic brain power!
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 07:13 PM by Greyskye
Yeah, that's the ticket! I guess that's as good as the other explanations you've suggested, then quickly backed away from. :eyes:



Look, I just made a crop circle near Kent!
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #174
176. I miss acid, but not most of the acidheads.
All of them seemed to have the same Einstein poster with 'imagination is more important than knowledge' printed on he bottom, but almost none of them have read any of his scientific work. Sad.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #176
181. If it wasn't for those "acid" heads you wouldn't be here right now
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 07:26 PM by seemslikeadream
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #181
182. And if I wait long enough maybe you'll tell me what you meant by that
But I'm not holding my breath.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #182
200. One interpretation is she just implied that you are the product of...
...psychedelic induced love between your parents.

But I'm sure that the poster in question would never condescend to such a base and unfounded personal attack.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #200
205. I wondered about that, but I decide she meant the inventors of the internet got high on the side
We'll probably never know. In times to come we'll wonder if we were being addressed by a higher intelligence, and if so why it seemed to have such difficulty with expressing its thoughts clearly.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #182
219. HERE YA GO SWEETIE~~~~~~~~~
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/7...


BASEL, Switzerland -- When Kevin Herbert has a particularly intractable programming problem, or finds himself pondering a big career decision, he deploys a powerful mind expanding tool -- LSD-25.

"It must be changing something about the internal communication in my brain. Whatever my inner process is that lets me solve problems, it works differently, or maybe different parts of my brain are used, " said Herbert, 42, an early employee of Cisco Systems who says he solved his toughest technical problems while tripping to drum solos by the Grateful Dead -- who were among the many artists inspired by LSD.

"When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing," said Herbert who intervened to ban drug testing of technologists at Cisco Systems.

Herbert, who lives in Santa Cruz, California, joined 2,000 researchers, scientists, artists and historians gathered here over the weekend to celebrate the 100th birthday of Albert Hofmann, the Swiss chemist who discovered LSD here in 1938. The centenarian received a congratulatory birthday letter from the Swiss president, roses and a spontaneous kiss from a young woman in the crowd
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #219
225. ....and?
I don't really need an ad for LSD, as I'm quite the fan already. Are you implying Cisco created the Internet or something?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #225
226. double helical structure of DNA
Reading it's a good thing
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #226
258. Hmm...that was around for a good long time before Francis Crick discovered it
I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. Discovering something after you've had an LSD-assisted insight doesn't mean the original phenomenon was caused by LSD. It's an interesting molecule but it doesn't actually interact with your DNA directly, you know.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #225
228. Are you using a mouse? Come on now don't lie
The gathering included a discussion of how early computer pioneers used LSD for inspiration. Douglas Englebart, the inventor of the mouse, Myron Stolaroff, a former Ampex engineer and LSD researcher who was attending the symposium, and Apple-cofounder Steve Jobs were among them. In the 2005 book What the Dormouse Said, New York Times reporter John Markoff quotes Jobs describing his LSD experience as "one of the two or three most important things he has done in his life."



http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/7...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #225
230. you do have some of that DNA stuff don't you?
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 10:08 PM by seemslikeadream

















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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #174
179. There is a simple reason for my line of responses
too bad you just don't get it

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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #179
183. Too bad you just can't/won't articulate it. /nt
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #179
185. Neither does anyone else, evidently.

But I'm happy for you that being mysterious and enigmatic gets you off.

I've known quite a few teenagers who went through that phase as well.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #140
147. ever see this video?
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #147
157. THAT'S your explanation?
:rofl:

Harmonic sound waves?

1) Wheat/barley etc. don't behave in the same way as sand.
2) You can only get symmetrical patterns with this technique. There is no way in hell that the photo in the OP could have been done this way. :eyes:
3) Even the people interviewed in the vids you posted don't talk about any sound - only faint lights and 'feeling like they were being taunted by a childlike presence'. Whatever.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #157
161. no stop jumping to conclusions
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #161
168. Well, what IS your thesis? Do you have one?
You keep saying people are jumping to conclusions but you seem unwilling to go on the record and say what you think is the cause. If you introduce some sort of natural phenomenon (like vibrational modes of a plate, as in the video above) then people are going to assume that you are positing that as the cause, or at least a partial cause, since you posted it in response to a question.

If you don't have any kind of specific thesis then you're just going around in circles.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #161
169. As you refuse to give a straight answer...
...you leave us no alternatives.

You just love yanking peoples chains. Don't get upset when people yank back. :hi:
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #147
163. Yes. They're called Chladni plates
named after a German scientist who was the father of acoustic visualization. The patterns are called vibrational modes of the plate. You can get similar patterns by projecting the output of an oscilloscope into phase space. This is the basis of a lot of screensavers that react to music.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #140
154. or this
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #154
162. So explain non-symmetrical patterns using harmonic resonance techniques.

I'll be waiting...
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #154
277. SLAD - This is fascinating
Edited on Thu Jun-19-08 10:04 AM by eowyn_of_rohan
Sound phenomenon... reminds me of synesthetic experiences I have had. All is one. verrrrry cool, and thanks for posting this link.
Water waves...Sound waves...Color waves...Other waves?
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #140
178. I pick Fish!!
:bounce:

Just cos I like fish. :)
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #140
293. Funniest. Response. Ever.
"SCAWBA"

:rofl:
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #60
186. Nice, a fellow (former) raver
:hi:
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #186
196. W00t! I still like the music a lot.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #196
203. One of my favorites
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:53 PM
Original message
If you can't come up with a valid reason why these two forms of grafitto are different...
then it's probably because you haven't got one.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
70. you try making this in the same time it take to spray paint
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. That would pretty clearly take at least a few dozen people an entire night.
Well, I'm convinced. No way that you could get twenty people to work on a project. No sir.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #50
88. so beautiful.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #50
244. Some folks have a vested interest in making sure mysteries like these crop circles have a mundane
explanation.

I know the CIA policy regarding UFOs, etc is ridicule aimed at shutting people up for fear of being dismissed as crazies.

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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
67. You are
making my point for me.

And I believe in alien visitors!!!! :rofl:

crop circles are a joke. (in more ways than one.)
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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
68. Dupe
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 04:57 PM by Gilligan
dee-doop...
diddy-doop, diddy, doop.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #43
61. That second pic of yours with the graduated circles in curves
has always disturbed me. Who has that much TIME on their hands to get it all right? With no mistakes.

Remember, there isn't really any good way to undo the knocked-down crops if you mess up.

I just find myself wondering about alternate realities and other dimensions when I see this stuff......
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:57 PM
Original message
you see, there's this stuff called "paper." You can write on it.
You can then plan out how to do things.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
73. bullshit
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. No, paper exists. I've used it many times before.
There's this extra-special stuff called "graphing paper." This lets you plot out exact correspondences between real-world places.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #79
96. Me too. I also have this thing called a computer and one called a printer. truly magical.
Would you believe I can use it to study all sots of wondrous mathematical constructs. Or design a whole building and then print out the plans in a format that a bunch of builders could use.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. With all the damage these "people" have done you'd think the farmers would have someone arrrested
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #101
108. Most do it at night. It's graffiti. Similar to urban graffiti artists,
they have learned that if you make graffiti at night, you will not be arrested for it.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #101
110. Well, that actually happens you know
Matthew Williams is the best-known arrestee. Or here's a recent story about a Candian farmer who was pranked by his friend and is pissed off about it.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?i...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. Where's the picture
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #112
118. Here you go

http://centroufologicotaranto.blogspot.com/2007/09/onda...

Picture might not appear due to blogspot link manager.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #118
125. Oh geee that is REALLY complicated
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #125
138. So? I just grabbed the most recent news headline. You want more complex? Here:

http://www.circlemakers.org/exhibit_a.html In fact here's a whole stack of them. I don't think that just become something is complex it's evidence of any paranormal origin...in fact, that's the basic flaw of creationism.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #138
142. Maybe I missed it where is it proven who made that circle
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #142
155. I gave you their website address for heaven's sake
Here's the specific article, with details of how and why they made it. They did so for the BBC.
http://www.circlemakers.org/beeb.html

And there are lots and lots of other examples of made-to-order crop circles on their website, some of which are as simple as corporate logos, others which are very complex.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #118
130. THAT ONE IS DEFINETLY DONE VERY BADLY BY A PRANGSTER
WE AGREE ON THAT
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #130
171. DAMN THOSE PRANGSTERS!
THEY KEEP STEALING MY PRANGS!

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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #171
300. Greatest comback pic EVAH.

I fanboy you with oozings of electric fan.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
180. I guess my issue isn't with planning. It's more with execution.
Where does one find humans COMPETENT to do this????

The average American couldn't pull it off in a month of Sundays. Probably involves math and geometry and ACTUAL PHYSICAL WORK.
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pt22 Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #38
90. Those were obviously done by unsymmetrical aliens.
No mirrors on their planet. :silly:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Wow, that's almost as exciting as this
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. earliest reports was in Lyon in 815AD


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/871607.stm

One of the earliest reports was in Lyon in 815AD, and a late 16th Century woodcut depicts the devil mowing a field into patterns.


http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_14.htm

The most well known positive depiction of a crop circle is found in a woodcut made in 1678 with the title 'Strange News out of Hartford-shire.
It depicts a devil-like creature cutting out a pattern in a crop with a scythe.
The woodcut has text, which told of a greedy farmer, who, having refused to pay a mower a reasonable rate for reaping his oats, swore that he would rather have the Devil do the work. The very following morning, the farmer awoke to find his crop had been harvested, but done so in such an amazing manner, with rounded circles of incredible exactness that no human could have done the same within the period and darkness of one night. The farmer was so afraid that he could not enter the field to collect his harvest.


http://www.lovely.clara.net/crop_circles_early.html
Suddenly, I heard a noise. It seemed as if something pushed down the wheat. That night the air was completely still. I looked around. The moon had just appeared, shining brightly. In front of my eyes I could see a great imprint taking shape. The wheat was forced down in a clockwise direction." -Bryce Bond and Arthur Shuttlewood, first modern crop circles witnesses, Warminster, night of August 12, 1972


http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa021802b.ht...
The first crop circle in the US was reported in 1964.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. A woodcut of the devil reaping wheat is not evidence of crop circles.
You're probably confusing that with this photographic evidence of the Loch Ness monster:

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Like I said before GIVE ME A FUCKING MINUTE
I'LL BE BACK
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Give you a minute to do what?
What, exactly, are you trying to do?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Looking through the vast amount of stuff I've collected
it will take a few minutes
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. What, exactly, are you looking for?
An extra super duper crop circle that couldn't be made by people?
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #39
195. A minute to do some...
...fucking? :shrug:
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #36
52. Why don't you just try putting your stuff together before you post?
It'd be more constructive if you put your links and images etc. together first and posted them all at once instead of doing repeated drive-by postings - it's not like the forum will disappear if you don't post fast enough.

So, you posted a video and it shows lots of pretty crop circles. OK, so crop circles are pretty. I like them too. None of that means aliens are leaving graffiti in our food.

Maybe you should check your sources better. I see other videos online showing lights and so on, but in most cases a few minutes analysis usually shows such videos to be fake, either capturing natural phenomena or created by tricksters. I work in low-budget film and it's not that hard to create special effects on the cheap, especially if it's going to be seen on some grainy little handycam video.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. I'll post anyway I damn well want to
any of the vids I posted faked?
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #59
69. Yes, they probably are fake
It isn't that hard, you know. Want lights in the sky? Get some helium balloons, attach 2 or three of them to chinese lanterns (lightweight paper lanterns design to hold a tea candle), put them on a long fishing line in a moderate wind, they'll whip about but good. If you're filming it at night from 200 feet away with a little camcorder it'll look like something is flying around all right. You don't even need to use after effects.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
77. please don't change the subject we're talking about crop circles
not aliens or space ships or balloons
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #77
92. Well you asked if they were faked
and I said they probably were, and suggested one possible method of fakery (if, for example, you wanted a video showing lights in the sky). The circles obviously exist, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be made by people. Do you even have a point here?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. excuse me where did I ask you that
sorry but I have lost track since I am discussing this with 5 other people
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #95
120. #59: 'any of the vids I posted faked?' /nt
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #120
131. h that was because you accused my vids of being faked
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. Laughter occurred.
Thank you much, sir.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
177. this is a cool one
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trusty elf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #177
262. I'm kinda partial to this one
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
276. LMAO
A before and after picture. On YouTube! ZOMG, that's the most convincing evidence I've ever seen!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Here's how the smart person who understood the pi thing got involved...
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
57. I was just now listening to "The Joy of Pi" in Audible.com format, when I stopped to check DU!
Howzat for coincidence? Here's a more detailed of that (Pi) crop circle: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1027178/Easy-pi...

pnorman
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #57
93. Thanks for the pic, pnorman! Ever hear Jacques Vallee's concept of an "Associative Universe"?
Dr. Jacques Vallee says we live in an "Associative Universe," one in which our minds act as a sort of rudder, guiding us more often to the visualized destination. He describes it in detail in "Messengers of Deception," a study of UFO cults and people who manipulate followers and what it means to the greater society as a whole.

http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/UFO-info-age.html

Perhaps important thoughts are like the clouds moving across the clear blue sky of the Universal Mind. We both happened to some aspect of the same one, pi.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thesis avoidance behavior? n/t
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sakura Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
212. Yep. Mine was solitaire.
Not anywhere near as creative, but it got the job done.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. A couple of smart ass stundents who drew out plans, then got drunk.
:shrug:
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. I would have thought the thing to do would be to make the circle and get drunk afterwards
It is possible to do fun things for the hell of it without being drunk first.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. It's possible.
But it's more fun to get drunk first.

Or high then drunk.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Could it be the work of several mathematically knowledgeable individuals? nt
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. no, it's got to be aliens.
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 04:20 PM by Bornaginhooligan
Aliens are unsure is we understand the value of pi to ten places, so they want to tell us, but they've got to flatten out grass instead of just coming out and telling us.

That makes much more sense when you think about it.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. We know it's not aliens, because
M. Night Shyamalan made a cruddy movement that said it was, so it has to be people.

"Signs." Ugh. One of my most hated movies ever. Sooo derivative.

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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. Signs is the worst movie I've ever seen in a theater.
But I hear his latest film is even worse.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
80. He makes glorified episodes of mediocre TV shows.
That's one reason it seemed bad in a theatre.

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TommyO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. No, it had to be aliens
Humans aren't smart enough to engineer something this complex and actually execute the plans.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. We figured out how to launch men to the Moon a half-century ago.
Pressing down plants is beyond our mental capacity.
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TommyO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
301. Absolutely!
Of course, I should have included :sarcasm:, but I figured it was obvious.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. And People Think Farmers Are Uneducated Oafs
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. Math geeks
Not all lovers of maths and science are averse to life outdoors. There's plenty of universities within a few hours' drive, and you can find likely candidate fields using Google Earth. Making a crop circle isn't all that hard. Nor does it hurt that it was a full moon last night, which would make it a lot easier for people to see what they're doing without needing electric lights.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. Oh c'mon "Battlestar Gallactica" landed on earth last week. It must be them.
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 04:21 PM by Cleita
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. you can only see pi in the sky.
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 04:22 PM by Algorem
from the sky.something.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. LOL!
:rofl:
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
117. wrong spot..
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 05:36 PM by IDemo
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. Was the decimal point added for us earthlings?
Cuz I seriously doubt the aliens just happen to separate whole and fractional numbers like we do. The hoaxers probably should have left that out.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. Actually, it's not pi, it's some really significant number that's beyond our understanding.
But you have to read it in base 13 before you can even realize that.
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Terry in Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
28. College kids
with too much, um, "study aid" left over after exams -- see, they got the 2 and the 6 transposed!

Whatever or whoever, though, still remarkable stuff.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
30. Well, pi is evident the second you attach a rope at the center of the circle and make 1/2 revolution
I bet all the other measurements were based on that.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
37. It is beyond stupid not to know these things are man-made.
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 04:35 PM by IanDB1
And I am not going to the effort yet again of having that argument... yet again.

I simply want to go on-record.



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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
240. Everyone's entitled to an opinion.


I don't know who made them. Or how.

What's worse, I can only guess at what they mean.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #240
269. They mean, "People who don't know this was made by other human beings are idiots." n/t
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
40. Yea thats some definitive evidence of visitation by extraterrestrials alright
Everyone knows that only extraterrestrials have the ability to flatten down wheat growing in a farm field.

:crazy:

Don
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Where did I say anything about extraterrestrials, NN0LHI?
Although, that is a possibility, somewhat less likely than a human explanation.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. You kinda sorta implied it...
when you were fascinated by it and doubted humans pulled it off.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. No. You implied it above. I said a pair of drunken RAF noncoms couldn't figure this one out.
Big difference between what I wrote and what you are implying I said.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. So were you implying maybe two drunken Army noncoms did it?
C'mon. You couldn't explain it. Thought maybe aliens did it. Now you feel embarassed.

Deservedly.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. However, a group of college students could easily figure this one out.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. hell...i am not that bright and I get it..
so someone immersed in math would be able to snap this out in a minute or two...designwise...

sP
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
41. Pi? I guess that confirms it's NOT aliens
The probability of an extra terrestrial intelligence representing numbers in the same base 10 system as us is virtually zero.
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pt22 Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #41
98. It's not from aliens but the number system base has no bearing on
the proportionality of the arc lengths. They are the same for any base. ;-)
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #41
145. It's a message to us that they've realised we have 10 fingers
They'd been carefully studying the Simpsons episodes they'd picked up as they were beamed into space, and had been sure we had 4 digits on each hand, so must use an octal numbering system. But when they kept capturing lonely people on rural roads at night, and found they hand an extra finger on each hand, they got confused (an attempt to find out what to do with the extra finger was responsible for all those <ahem> probes). But after many samples of us, they've finally worked out it's 10 fingers and decimal, so this was their message to us to say "we understand now!".
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
42. sure, they're aliens
with way too much time on their hands.

wish they'd do something more constructive and useful for earthlings, like brain surgery on dubya so he thinks he's ralph nader.
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pt22 Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
64. Them aliens are some smart lil' buggers, they know Pi to 9 decimal places!
:toast: to the LGM
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
65. Hey, stop thinking for yourself!
We'll have none of that in here.

The scientists will tell you what to believe in science and the religious will tell you what to believe in religion.
Independent thinking is often dangerous! LOL

Actually, I'm 75% people (a bunch of skeptics who like to turn all unknowns quickly into unquestionable fraud through
replication) did this. There are all manner of circle makers now, some with very complex systems. It has also been
shown that it's fairly easy to make them.

But we don't know for certain about anything. Because that's the likely explanation doesn't make it the only one.
In order to continue to think, we have to be open to considering all possibilities.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #65
275.  I blame those stupid cable shows.
You see them crop up (ha, really, no pun intended there) from time to time on Discovery or TLC. I've seen quite a few of the talking points parroted on some of the posts in this thread. But the shows don't offer an accurate view of the opposing scientific viewpoint. Every single one of the talking points that people are spewing in this thread about how no one has ever been caught, or the bent stalks couldn't possibly have been bent by any other means but a quick blast of high energy, yadda yadda, they've all been debunked. These shows rarely devote much time to that end of it, because I guess it would spoil the fun. Those shows are really only meant for entertainment, so I don't get too worked up about them. I just wish they'd be less sloppy, because free thinking is easier with more information available to you. Being a free thinker doesn't do much good if you're basing that free thought on limited information. The state of science education in this country is abysmal. Believe me. Religion and mysticism is in no danger right now.

I'm all for considering all the possibilities. That doesn't mean jumping to conclusions in the face of overwhelming evidence. And the evidence is indeed overwhelming that it is humans that are making crop circles. If evidence to the contrary ever comes up, I'll change my mind. That is not being close minded.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #275
294. It's a variety of things
If the scientific mainstream wasn't so averse to a multi-model approach, we wouldn't have people leaping to fairy folk ideas.

In reality, no one knows for sure what the hell is going on. It could be anything. There's no command that we must decide on ONE
answer as absolute orthodoxy and demand everyone to believe it absolutely. I think it's okay to question and come up with other
ideas without the scientific dads sticking their heads in and telling everyone to shut up.

The majority of the evidence definitely indicates a very prosaic, everyday cause of crop circles (people make them) however no one
can be certain about anything. I leave open the possibility that there might be something more. I do not think this is a
mechanical, causal world at its base. I think the evidence speaks against that.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
74. A couple of drunken math geeks?
:shrug:
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pt22 Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
83. I like
Ω-made-Π


:D
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
103. There are too many mysteries to just be pranksters
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 05:17 PM by starroute
Circles appear overnight. Or they appear in the middle of the day in locations that can be seen from major highways. Nobody has ever been caught in the act of making one.

Most of the circles involve complex geometrical or mathematical relationships, and though there are occasional small glitches in the patterns or the execution, on the whole they are done with an astonishing level of precision -- the sort of thing that would be extraordinarily difficult to maintain when working at ground level over a scale of more than 100 feet.

The stalks that are bent over frequently seem almost to have been melted and then curved downwards. They are not broken or even bent sharply and often are able to resume growing.

There are never any signs of work having been accidentally trampled in the course of adding new sections. Stalks are laid down smoothly, generally in circular waves, sometimes with complex interweavings, and often with a small knot of stalks left standing at the center of each circle.

And no, I don't think it's aliens. But I do think a fairly high level of technology has to be involved, probably involving heat or radiation, and that it is likely being done from the air. Many circles every year -- perhaps a majority -- are easily identifiable as fakes, produced as stunts or advertising gimmicks, and the difference in quality is readily apparent.

If pressed for a hypothesis, I would guess military black budget technology being appropriated by occult tricksters in a form of ontological guerrilla warfare. But really I have no more clue than the next person.

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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #103
106. "Ontological Guerilla Warfare" -- holy shit, fucking great post.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #103
109. "Nobody has ever been caught in the act of making one."
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #103
159. My thoughts as well!

Is there any correlation between the onset of the appearance of the more sophisticated crop circles and evolving SDI ("Star Wars") technology?
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
104. THAT POOR BARLEY
it could have made such beautiful beer if it lived long enough :cry:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. That's the thing it was still ALIVE after the circle was made
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pt22 Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #107
111. Er, how do you know that?
??
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #107
114. even if it survives
it'll never get a chance to live it's lifelong dream now. :cry:
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #107
122. Why do you find this so remarkable?
If you use a roller instead of a board and go at moderate speed it's not so difficult to achieve, especially if the ground is damp.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #104
151. Have no fear
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
105. Why Would That Be Harder Than Any Of The Others, Once Mapped Out?
I see nothing complex about it whatsoever. :shrug:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
113. Where any barley stalks harmed in the making of this thread?
:D :hi:



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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
115. I love those things
They are so cool. I wonder who's messing with us?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #115
128. I don't know but I do know who is messin' with bush
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #128
132. Lol! Methinks McClingy is going to regret that little hug
He's too lazy to do a reach-around :rofl:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #132
133. and his other best bud
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #133
135. McLIEberman - ewwww, he makes me want to vomit
:puke:

Do I ever I hate him.
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MinneapolisMatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
116. Sure is pretty...
...no matter who did it.

xoxox M
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
119. Don't they know that pi r squared?
Or is it 'cake r squared but pi r round'?
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
121. Look guys there is so much info on DU ..... to digest ......
lately I've only been interested in getting my dogs onto a holistic diet. So I've been lurking the 'Pet Forum' here .... no more wheat, corn, preservatives diet for the little guys. More of a 'raw' diet and detoxing their systems. What does this have to do with crop circles ??? Probably just the thought of keeping your pets out of the corn, wheat fields I guess. ;)


Anyway cool post ..... intriguing to say the least. peace.
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
124. What a gorgeous crop circle!
Thanks for posting! I haven't seen any pictures this year, so am happy to see this one.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. Would you like to see my vid?
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #127
134. That is a beautiful video.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #127
136. Oh SLAD!!! Crow on the Cradle is BEAUTIFUL!!! One of my favorite songs...
You are so talented.
I hope we get to meet in person some day.
BHN
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
137. I used to do a fair amount of woodworking, and one of the pieces of machinery
that I used was a CNC router. For those who don't know a CNC machine is a programmable three dimension wood carving router. I watched an experienced operator program at an incredible level of detail and watched the machine crank out perfect representations.

That's the first explanation that comes to mind, a programmed mobile mower.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #137
139. But they aren't mowed; they are bent.
Just saying.

Personally, I think the Kogi of Colombia are responsible.
http://www.taironatrust.org

Most people interpret the world in such a limited
dimension that it is impossible for them to imagine
that there are levels of existence outside of what
they perceive with limited senses.

The Kogi are probably the most spiritually advanced
humans on the planet.
They have been trying to warn us about the death
of the mother for a long time.
And yes, they claim to have the ability to travel
outside of their bodies and that they have
been doing so for years in the effort to find
souls who are willing to learn and help them teach others
in order to save the planet.
BHN
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #139
288. Thanks for posting this...
I've bookmarked the site.

People who insist on putting everything in the world into tiny little boxes scare the hell out of me. I think the truth is, they are scared as hell to allow their minds to wander and think outside the little tiny boxes. The unknown is very scary for a lot of people. For me, the unknown is the brass ring, the prize in the Cracker Jack, the fruit at the bottom of my yogurt cup. There is so much more that we don't know. What we know is one grain of sand compared to what we don't know, which is all grains of sand on all of the beaches on Earth.

Why do people feel threatened by other people who have creative minds? Sad, really. And to insist on belittling free thinkers is very telling, imho.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #288
291. Couldn't have said it better
myself. Truly great post Juniperx.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
141. First tipoff of man-made: The decimal point
Its far too human like in my opinion. The decimal mark can easily be made of thousands of symbols...coincidently an alien would pick a '.'? The 3 '.' marks at the end to signify lopping off of a larger number: human-like. Its also inefficient to write numbers like this simply because large numbers would take a massive amount of space up (an advanced race would think of this). If they were simply trying to use a universal constant to communicate "likeness" and "intelligence", wouldn't they pick the easiest way to show this? Such as....

III
-
I IIII I IIIII IIIIIIIII

or something like that arranged properly....


Further...WHY BASE 10?!? Thats a coincidence completely. Its just as plausible to use hex or binary number systems.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #141
143. shhhh...octal wouldn't make sense either...
any numbering system would make as much sense...if it had been in binary that would have been interesting...

sP
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #143
146. All is revealed in post #171
:evilgrin:
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #146
152. but South Park said they were turning the COWS
inside out...how'd they get from that to humans being the smart ones on the planet???

sP

:banghead:
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #141
148. The '.' is just to let us know they're not French (nt)
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #141
193. Adding the ellipsis was a nice touch
Them aliens are smart.

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #141
289. If this were some attempt at communication...
The decimal point would be key, and completely valid. I'm not saying little green men made this, I'm just saying your reasoning for it NOT being something super-human is flawed.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
153. Love how the road just happens to go thru it.
:D
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PfcHammer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
156. very nice
bunch of maths mofos no less :applause:
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patrick t. cakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
165. this thread has been to funny...
rec.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
166. I would love to know why kooky subjects like this seem to pop up so often
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 06:54 PM by Marr
around left-leaning political discussion. Seems like about 1/3 the time I meet someone with whom I agree politically, they take an abrupt turn into Art Bell territory inside of 15 minutes.

Crop circles are made by human beings. I've seen a couple of techniques for making them demonstrated. There's zero evidence to suggest they're anything but man-made designs.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #166
173. Same reason about 1/3 of conservatives turn out to be creationists
I've come to the conclusion that about 1/3 of people in general will just believe anything, whether it's lien abductions or the Virgin Mary appearing on their bathroom wall. If we lived in Viking times they'd be rushing in to tell you they saw Thor flying across the sky or whatever.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #166
274. Liberals tend to be open minded, speculative. Rightists prefer a rigid, monumental "reality."
...all predictable and explainable, and seem to take great pleasure in castigating any who question the consensus reality.

And no, I'm not disagreeing that CC can and are created by people.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #274
280. Yes, that would explain why creationists gravitate twoard the left.
Edited on Thu Jun-19-08 10:39 AM by Pithlet
I think you're on to something, there.

Seriously, though. This is why it's a bad idea to be painting with those broad brushes. Many, many people I know who are skeptics are liberal and progressive. My personal experience has been that they tend to be more often than not.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #280
303. There's a stark contrast between healthy "skepticism," and condescending/sneering at others...
...Because they, by varying degrees, lend credence to ideas/beliefs that fall outside of another's perceived "reality." It speaks to intent and motive, especially when much of it stems from fear of embarrassment that one's perceived political ideology must unfortunately be shared with those "kooky" liberals who aren't rigidly All About The Facts And Nothing But.

...which incidentally feeds directly into the conservative/authoritarian mindset, as well as their propaganda to dissuade others from tolerating such "moon bats." De-humanizing "enemies" is a central aspect of such actions.

"The monumentalism of fascism would seem to be a safety mechanism against the bewildering multiplicity of the living. The more lifeless, regimented, and monumental reality appears to be, the more secure the men feel. The danger is being alive itself." ~ Klaus Theweleit, Male Fantasies
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
170. Yes, pi to the 10th decimal was previously a SECRET
:eyes:
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
175. I love cropcircles and am a believer
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dems_rightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #175
268. I'm an Easter Bunny person myself
To each their own.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
184. Everyone loves a mystery...
and since this pseudoscience is harmless, unlike ID/Creationism, I find crop circles interesting. But I do not think they are made by anything other then people, sorry. Without hard evidence, it is a no to all other sources for this phenomena out outside of Human hands.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
187. These guys did it...
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #187
189. LOL

Now that was funny! :thumbsup:
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #187
257. No, probably this kid
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
190. Some drunken grad students could.
That's pretty cool, but not even as complex as some of the other crop circles.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
192. Octafish asked, Any ideas?
Yeah. Are you familiar with Steven Greer's Disclosure Project?

http://www.disclosureproject.org /

It's just a lead I am following, not starting from the crop circle angle per se. But most intriguing anyway. Unlike the know-it-alls on this thread, I am curious, filled with wonder at the possibilities. Studying the unknown, what could be more intriguing?

Sad to see this thread become another example of casting pearls before you-know-whats.
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #192
202. I am. But I will not talk on DU about what I have seen with my own eyes
anymore, because these threads get highjacked by people who disrupt discussions about it, and effectively call me a liar or crazy. I will go elsewhere.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #202
206. Same here.
I could have written your post.

And I'm not interested in convincing anyone of things they must vehemently deny or else their world-view is in danger of shattering. Why bother when there are many genuine explorers out there who we can contact via the net?
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #206
213. Couldn't stop my fingers
too pissed.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #213
216. Don't take the bait and keep a sense of humor- Essential on a thread like this.
Trust me on that...

BHN
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #202
278. I agree. I give a lot of credit to SLaD and BHN and others...
for their efforts. I am so utterly tired of every thread like this being hijacked with nothing but ridicule, which is, of course, an attempt to diminish someone's point of view without having to offer any contrary evidence.

I've always thought that the level of ridicule is directly proportional to their fear that "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in {their} philosophy".


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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #192
204. Have you heard of Occam's razor?
Many centuries ago, a monk named William of Occam suggested that one should not multiply entities unnecessarily. In other words, if existing knowledge is adequate to explain a phenomenon, there's no reason to go in search of more complex explanations. Studying the unknown is certainly intriguing, which is why people become scientists. However, they rely on a tool to guide them: the scientific method. Without sticking to a mthodological approach, consistency goes out the window.

As for the disclosure project, what a disappointment. when that started up I was hoping for something interesting but as usual it failed to materialize. Ever stop to wonder how Stephen Greer can get people to fork over $995 for a training session (lodging not included) on his CSETI website, but there's not one quality photograph, artifact, testable prediction or anything else providing evidence of visiting aliens. He's got a great conspiracy line going, but where's some evidence? The guy's been talking about a cover up for the last 7 years, but the problem is that anybody can make wild claims and then say 'it's been covered up!'. That doesn't prove anything.

where's the hard data? Are there any photographs I can download? Sound recordings of alien voices? Examples of alien biochemistry? Anything? No. Instead there's requests to fork over $$$$ more more vital information (about a cover up) http://www.disclosureproject.org/PDF-Documents/DPProduc...

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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #204
208. My experience with Steven Greer's info has been quite different from yours.
And yes, I am familiar with Occam's Razor.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #208
222. Well this would be a great chance to impress me...
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 09:49 PM by anigbrowl
...and convince me that he has something other than a hopelessly disorganized site design to take money off people. If he was really concerned about disclosure (IMHO) he would not have his sermons and interviews all over the place, he'd have testimony and evidence out front and center where it was easy to find and study. But no, he wants $5 before he'll even grant access to the executive summary. Why not do what everyone else does, put the information up where everyone can see it and derive maintenance revenue from ad traffic? If someone asks me to pay to read something so I can decide whether it's it's viable or not, my response is 'no thanks'. At least in a bookshop I can browse the book and decide beforehand if I think it is worth the asking price.

This is what a truly open resource looks like: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=... It's well organized, it's meticulous, it's accessible by anyone who is truly interested and its open to involvement from participants. It survives fine with donations. I don't agree with everything posted on the 9/11 timeline or consider it a 100.0% reliable source of data, but I do respect all the effort that has gone into trying to make it an objective historical resource.

So, this is your chance to tell me something specific and novel you have learned through Steven Greer. Not whether there is a conspiracy or this or that thing has been covered up by this or that government department - the nature of bureaucracies is that they are always tripping over themselves and doing stupid shit. Show or tell me something specific about ETs that I could possibly check for myself independently. As a one-time journalist, I still stick to the old rule that I don't buy anything unless I can get it confirmed by two independent sources.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #222
236. First of all, I have no desire to impress you or anyone else.
I'm here to learn. Share some observations, if I can.

Secondly, I have found more information on the disclosure site and related links than I can ever fully examine or verify even if I worked at it full time, lol. And all of that without paying a dime.

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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #204
211. Here are my favorites
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 08:50 PM by windoe
'Every person takes the limits of their own field of vision for the limits of the world" Arthur Schopenhauer

"It is impossible for a man (sic) to learn what he thinks he already knows" Epictetus

"It is a mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

I have experienced what can only be explained by the Disclosure Project, but am only an eyewitness. I have experienced physical symptoms that I could get no help with afterwards. It was terrifying. Call it a black project, but the level of technology is mind boggling. And every single blasted time I post about this my computer crashes. I dare you to call me a liar.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #211
217. They'll call you disturbed - a polite word for crazy.
But they know nothing about your reality. And that is a fact.

Here are two of my favorite quotes:



"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media."

~ William Colby, CIA Director from Sept. 1973 to Jan. 1976 under Presidents Nixon and Ford.
Colby was replaced by future President George H.W. Bush on January 30, 1976.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________


"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."

~ William Casey, CIA Director from 1981 to 1987.

(Quote from internal staff meeting notes 1981)

Casey headed up the successful presidential campaign of Ronald Reagan in 1980 and served on the transition team following the election. After Reagan took office, he named Casey to the post of Director of the CIA.

According to a 600-page report by the CIA inspector general, Frederick Hintz, the CIA under Casey was complicit in the Contras' massive narco-trafficking operation which resulted in the crack epidemic.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________



And what a great name you have: windoe
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #217
235. We can be tracked and tagged like animals
and have induced experiences that resemble nightmares, but they are very different. I come from a family of scientists, physicists who have worked within the intelligence community, so I have been familiar with surveillance all my life. Hilariously enough, I consider myself a skeptic. Well, all I know is, the level of technology acquired in secret has surpassed projects that are funded in the open by a quantum (pun intended) leap of development in recent years.

Stephen Greer has said that there is a concerted effort to coverup this terrestrial technology with a program to convince us that all sightings are alien. But there are also other sightings that are not 'ours' but are extraterrestrial. However, in order to believe that, one must take the first step in understanding the level of technology and what we have here. It is mind boggling.

I love to joke around, but somehow just the fact we never have an intelligent conversation about it in the mainstream is amazing, and like all other coverups, the fact that the shadow government has such technology needs to be brought out in the open, at the very least. Then we can take it from there.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #235
246. You're brave to say that here, windoe.
Just for you and maybe 2 or 3 others, I'll post Greer's latest

ANNOUNCEMENT

DR. STEVEN GREER AND THE DISCLOSURE PROJECT

DENVER PRESENTATION

WEDNESDAY JULY 9, 2008, 7:30 PM


Steven M. Greer MD, the founder and director of The Disclosure Project (www.DisclosureProject.org ) will be in Denver CO on July 9, 2008 at Turnhalle in the Tivoli.

Dr. Greer will be presenting a summary of over 500 government, military, intelligence and corporate witnesses to UFO events and projects and will be discussing the implications of the issue. Dr. Greer, who has personally briefed heads of state, members of Congress, a sitting CIA Director and other senior government officials on the UFO matter will provide an overview of the subject and expose the reasons behind the continuing secrecy.

Key to this secrecy is the existence of Unacknowledged Special Access Projects (USAPs) that operate outside of Presidential and Congressional oversight and that are beholden to special interests in the corporate, financial and energy sectors.

The energy and propulsion systems used by so-called UFOs (or extraterrestrial vehicles) has been studied for over 60 years using taxpayer funds and the disclosure of this vital information would completely replace the need for oil, gas, coal and nuclear power.

Dr. Greer states that In light of the growing energy and environmental crisis, it is imperative that the people of the United States know the truth and work to see that full Disclosure occurs as soon as possible. The mistake of classifying as top secret this information in the 1940s and 1950s has now resulted in a genuine world emergency that requires the thoughtful attention of every concerned citizen.

Mr. Jeff Peckman, who is heading up the Extraterrestrial Affairs Commission Denver ballot initiative, will also be present and make a brief presentation on that project.

The presentation is open to the media and public.

A nominal admission fee of $5.00 will be collected to cover expenses.

Location: Metro State College
Turnhalle in the Tivoli
Tivoli Student Union Building
900 Auraria Parkway
Denver CO 80204-1852

Phone: (303) 722-5800

Directions: Across the Auraria Parkway from the Pepsi Center. Turn southeast onto 9th Street, off of Auraria Parkway. It is a highly visible national historic building, with ample parking in front.

Campus Map and Directions:
http://www.ahec.edu/campusmaps/maps.htm (Building #7)
Tivoli Student Union Map

Media inquiries may be directed to:
Email: media@disclosureproject.org
Phone: 301-249-3915

The Disclosure Project is a 501 (C) (3) nonprofit organization


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who knows, maybe somebody will check it out and tell us about it here.


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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #246
247. It's so great not to be laughed at
I shake physically when I have to recall what happened. It is an important subject.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #247
252.  I can only imagine what it must be like...
to have encounters of the 3rd or 4th kind. :hug:

My experience was much less drastic than yours, but still undeniable. And I cherish it for opening the window for me at an early age toward a more cosmic consciousness.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #246
254. HI!
I can't believe I missed this conversation

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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #254
256. Hi beautiful
dreamslikeitsreal :pals:
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #254
283. SLaD, I just wanted to jump in and say thanks for your efforts. eom
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #283
295. Thanks truth2power
I was just having a little fun, crop circles are beautiful and a mystery. And I was celebrating that georgie is going to be tried as a war criminal



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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #246
281. Kaleko...please check your inbox. It would be great
if Greer's presentation could be posted on the internet for those of us for whom it's not feasible to travel to CO.

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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #211
229. Well, you are welcome to PM me if you would like
I will certainly entertain your story, even if I wind up not accepting it. I can't call you a liar since I have no idea what your claims are, just that you had a bad experience and may or may not have an unreliable computer. If do PM I'll be happy to give it a sympathetic read, although I would suggest you take a minimalist, just-the-facts approach in your description.

If you get a lot of crashes it might be better to type your story with notepad or something like that and save it so you could just paste it into a message rather than lose the text if you get some sort of crash.
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #229
242. i wrote some of it for you
check your PM. So far it was hard to tell whether a storm interrupted my service or a ping.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #242
260. OK, I just replied. I was watching TV for a while.
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #260
285. I wrote the rest of the story
thanks for being respectful. :)
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
197. Not all crop circles are made by humans
This one was definitely not made by humans

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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
198. This thread is like a magnificent crop circle.
I have no clue how it happened, but I find it to be an intriguing event to look at.
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ghostsofgiants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #198
223. But whether human or alien, a crop circle indicates a level of intelligence, does it not?
:evilgrin:
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
201. It's beautiful and intriguing.
I have no idea how it was made though. I don't know anything about crop circles. I just appreciate their artistic qualities.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
207. Farmers around here make corn mazes and charge admission
I could see English farmers out there at night, dreaming of a little extra cash before harvest.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
209. I think crop circles happen at energy vortexes on Earth
there are vortexes like at Sedona in Arizona that happen to be in crop areas. Some energy field that we've yet to understand or harness is making these. Hoaxers don't come close to the beauty and complexity of the ones that are done by these energy fields.





















I know this because I am a super double secret agent for the Intergalactic Force :P

Seriously, I have no idea, maybe it is some energy force, harmonic sound, who knows.

This thread however is PRICELESS :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
210. Crop circles are a joke! nt
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
214. This thread should be bronzed and hung in the DU lobby.
Holy friggin hell is this thread funny.

Seriously, this might possibly be the BEST thread I've read on DU in a year!

:rofl:

Keep up the good work!

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #214
215. You should have been here before the delete of the sub-thread!!!
I was laughing my ass off...

This is why we LOVE DU, no?

We need a Hall of Fame thread shrine at the very least.
BHN
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #215
224. This has been so much fun and I'm so glad you were here
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
218. less than one millionth of reality
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 09:38 PM by seemslikeadream

Until the twentieth century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see and hear. Since the initial publication that charted the electromagnetic spectrum, humans have learned that what they can touch, smell, see and hear is less than one millionth of reality.




Richard Buckminster Fuller


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Nia Zuri Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #218
234. Oh, but science, science, science, it's not measurable!!!!!
:sarcasm: Naysayers think that "we" know al there is to know, that our current, rather primitive science can exlain everything. They are full of ignorance. Just like the folks who thought horseflies were somehow made out of shit, because that was "observable" at the time; that disease was spread through bad humors, that the earth was the center of the universe; they laugh at those with open minds when really it is their own ignorance that is astounding...
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #234
259. Yes, but the joy of science is that you can get results
It's all very well to point out how many things remain unknown, but doing so doesn't actually make one any wiser. That's the same line of thinking that the creationists use, they just ascribe the unknown to God or the bible. What you believe is what you believe; when you say you know something expect to be asked to demonstrate it. If you can't do so, how is someone to tell whether you're bloviating or not?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #218
238. You need more physics. You need less physics.


That's not even counting dimensions or universe layers or quantum wave functions or who knows what? Not I.

One thing I do know: It is good to have a friend in this big, old, lonely universe.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
220. Aren't the farmers getting pissed off by now?
Another year, another acre lost to those damn crop circles!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
221. Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 09:50 PM by seemslikeadream
William Butler Yeats


COME ON BABY LIGHT MY FIRE

I DO LOVE ME SOME OCTAFISH

LET'S HAVE A BONFIRE~



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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
227. I thought the british used a comma as their decimal point. nt
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #227
261. Nope. I seem to remember the French do, or at least used to. Not in the UK though.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
232. K&R Funny how some people are so incredibly closed-minded.
What I find interesting is that the governments of the US and Britain sometimes send military choppers to investigate these things. Why would that be?
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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
233. I must be a conspiracy wacko...
because I believe some crop circles are NOT man made.

:eyes:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #233
237. You are so wacked Fox Mulder
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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #237
241. I like that graphic...
I wonder what it'd look like if I were high right now?

:rofl:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #241
243. what do you mean if?
come on now just between you and me

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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #243
248. This is very beautiful.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #248
251. one for you
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
249. Trying to figure out who is on DU? Note the stats on this thread!!
Pete G. did this!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #249
253. This is where the party is tonight!
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 11:36 PM by seemslikeadream
I've caught up listening to the torture hearings and I am in a very good mood

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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #253
255. .
It's like this is The Devil's Den or something like that. :evilgrin:


:toast:
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
263. It's the Full Moon conjunct Pluto
keeping me awake, Has anyone seen those little flying disks? They look like a silver dinner plate, completely silent.
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jumptheshadow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #263
264. DU Thread of the Year!
Don't read this thread if you are drinking a beverage.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #263
270. ..........
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
265. it ain't aliens...
those that believe that it is, wtf are you smoking and can I get some?
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
266. I found this crop circle in the field behind the MSNBC building...


That took forever, sorry it's not perfect


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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
267. Someone show me a messed up crop circle
humans mess up, miscalculate and sometimes are uncoordinated. How come all of them look so perfect? Huh? Huh?

Bubba Curley and Mo never go out on a wild night and decide to make a crop circle?
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #267
273. I don't have any concrete views on CC - I consider either side to have valid points
However, you're question is spot on. A cursory Google Image search didn't really unearth anything.

Be it farmers, or math geeks, with too much time on their hands, one would expect to find many photos of botched efforts.

Now, this is when certain hostile conspiracy deniers may go apeshit and begin posting pics of failed CC attempts while sneering and jeering all the way, lol ... so yes, please feel free to do so! Given how many have taken credit for creating them, and how practice makes perfect, I'm sure such failed efforts are documented somewhere.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #267
279. A definitive question
Doubt if you'll get a response from the hecklers
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #267
307. Here


The eye is to elliptical, and part of his back is too flat.

Not that it's hard to make a crop circle look pretty good from a couple hundred feet up.

I'm able to mow my lawn every weekend without leaving large patches unmowed.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
282. k
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
287. I know I am annoying as hell on this
but I have to make one more point.

The disk (I am not calling it an extraterrestrial!) that I saw was silently floating at my zenith, above my head and a little back, completely in my blind spot. If it didn't block out the sun that day or made a shadow on the ground I would have never looked up, since it was completely silent.

I know people do not look up. When I was in college and even more annoying than I am now I used to throw snowballs from an upper story window just to watch how people looked around, but never ever up. Reminds me of a dog I once had as a child, used to play hide & seek with him, and he would sniff the ground all the way to the tree I was up and look around till I called to him and he was surprised every time.

We have to break out of our 2 dimensional worlds, if you don't look for something, almost guaranteed you will never find it.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #287
290. People are terrified of what they can't explain...
Well, some people are.

If you can't think outside the box, you can't think to look up ;)

Short story... at the park one day watching my kids play. I noticed a gathering of white spots in the sky, and I thought they were gulls. An hour later, I noticed the spots were still there! I watched them move around for a while... couldn't be balloons... too long in one spot for gulls... probably too far up too. My kids were 10 and under... we rested in the shade and ate PB&J's... I pointed the spots out to the kids... we laid back on the grass and watched the spots for another 30 minutes or so... at this point at least three hours had passed. The spots all of a sudden shot off in different directions! The four of us said... WWWHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAA! We cheered :) And we hoped it was someone smarter than ourselves.

I've since read many, many similar stories. I'm open :)
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #290
297. I saw a UFO once
This was in Santa Fe, NM. Somewhere in the 1974-75 time frame.

Nighttime. I saw a what appeared to be a rotating, shallow (meaning wider then it was tall) object. It was glowing gold as it 'spun', and seemed to be heading in our direction. I went in to get my parents and the company who was visiting, and we all went outside to check it out. As it kept getting closer, the rotating gold colors appeared to be moving in a downward motion within the objects outline as well.

We observed this for 5 to 10 minutes, as it moved across the horizon, gradually getting closer and closer. We were all incredulous, excited - we were seeing an actual UFO with our own eyes - this was exciting stuff!

Until it got close enough that we could see (and hear), that it was in actuality a bi-plane, with some sort of a cylindrical wire frame around a good portion of the plane, which evidently had an electronic marquee of some sort on it, with a scrolling advertisement on it. The motion of the words as they went around had given the illusion at a distance, of a fiery rotating disk.

We all had a big laugh at our 'UFO' - unidentified no longer. Damn! I want to believe! :)

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #297
298. :) me too
Edited on Thu Jun-19-08 02:39 PM by Juniperx
I saw Electric Light Orchestra at Angels Stadium in 1978, and their latest album cover was:



They had a great laser show, and somewhere in the middle of said show, a helicopter was heard... next thing you know, they were hoisting a huge "flying saucer" like that on the album cover... I so wanted it to be real! It looked great! The helicopter kept it's lights off, so all you could see was the saucer all aglow.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #287
296. 2 dimensional world?
some people live in only one dimension!


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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
292. Here's a take on that from Phil Platt - my favorite science blogger.
Bad Astronomy Blog > Crop Circularity:

And yet there is an astonishing range of dumbosity even within the crop circle field (haha, "field"). The latest, reported on a Faux Fox News website, has one that has be prepared to gasp the number pi encoded in it.

Ive read the description twice, and I still cant figure out what the guy is saying. But it seems suspicious that rounding is involved. Whenever you do that, precision kinda goes out the window. But lets assume, sure, pi is in the crop circle. Then my fave is this:

Crop-circle enthusiasts claim thats just more proof that the barley and wheat stalks have been stomped on by aliens who seem to have a special affinity for southern England.

Yknow, that would be more convincing if humans didnt know what pi was. But since we do, how does that preclude humans from creating this circle?


More skepticism here: Bad Astronomy Blog
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
299. The idea that mathematically perfect and precise geeks go out at night
to create crop circles as a national sport in England is really entertaining, and impressive.

You know it is interesting that in this country there is a coverup of secret technologies that enables the public to think all UFOs are extraterrestrial, while the opposite is in effect in England, they wish to support the impression that the crop circle phenomena is of terrestrial origin, while marginalizing the extraterrestrial point of view (leaving speculation open enough to encourage tourism). It is handled slightly different in each country.

I know that crop circles are not nearly as worthy of secrecy as antigravity or free energy or remote viewing machines, but it is interesting to step back a bit from all the hysteria and analyze the public relations aspect.

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
304. Mystery + hyperbole = profit
if you can round up a lot of easy marks, of course :rofl:
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