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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:21 AM
Original message
DU photographer convicted of failing to show sufficient respect to police...
This has been covered in the Photography Group for some time, but I think it needs a wider audience.

Carlos Miller (a.k.a. RagingInMiami) was convicted on several counts in connection with an incident where he disobeyed police orders to stop taking photos of an accident investigation they were making on a public street. He was essentially assaulted by the police, refused a plea bargain that would have restricted his sentence to "time served," and was now found guilty of, essentially, not being properly deferential to the authorities and a reluctance to willingly give up the First Amendment on their say-so.

I really don't have the time to go into the story much, but you can read more about it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

:grr:

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. well that's not good news at all
Florida is officially a police state. What's going to happen to Carlos?
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. I belong to the photo group on DU
some of my pics are displayed. My flickr link too. Cops in FL *never* tell me to go away.

Haven't been able to update my photos due to a hard drive crash, but they can be found if anyone wants to look and not hunt the link down it's www.flickr.com/photos/axollot

Cheers
Sandy

That's messed up that they interfered with him taking photos. I've not read the links yet. Kinda late at 2:30 am and need to be up in 4 hours. ugh.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oh fuck those insolent fascist morons.
My home state, and even I can't believe that RIM was convicted.

It's just stupid. Sufficient respect in these scenarios is a two-finger "PISS OFF" salute. Bastards.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. "properly deferential"? Florida again. Sheeez.
They can't/won't run honest elections but they have etiquette laws, evidently, and they take them very seriously.

Would it really float out to sea if we cut it off at the panhandle?
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. Be patient...it is sinking as we speak.
Lived in Fla. briefly.
Very briefly.
Tried to dig a garden in Lake City backyard.
Water filled the 2 foot hole.
Melting ice should finish the place off soon.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. That really sucks
I remember when he posted his story. It is absolutely outrageous.
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Carnea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. As a Floridian I'm appalled but not surprised.
Miami Dade in particular seems to be full of these what's a constitution types. You did the right thing and you are brave in doing it. Many would have copped the plea for time served.

Your actions speak loader than any words can.
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samplegirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I hear Flordia is no place
to mess with a friends son just did 2yrs. for slapping his girlfriend.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. really?
he was charged with failing to show sufficient respect to police?
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. No.
He was convicted of resisting arrest and minor traffic code infraction.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. That's fucked up.
But good for him for doing the right thing.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. Guilty of Obstructing a Public Highway?
That's a crap charge.

That's a charge you make when you suppress someone's rights and have nothing else to charge them with to cover your misbehavior.

I feel bad for Raging. I hope he can appeal.

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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. BINGO! n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. Not only that. He had photo evidence that he couldn't have been
where the "police" said he was.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Evidence? Bah. YOU WILL OBEY, PEON!
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 01:29 PM by redqueen
:grr:

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rdenney Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
12. Can you pronounce: P-O-L-I-C-E S-T-A-T-E U-S-A ?
I knew you could.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. It's certainly easier to spell than fascist dictatorship
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
13. Not to be naive or anything, but...
...where are the pics?

And has anyone posted this to Bad Cop News?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. He shared them here. They are in the archives if you search.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Let me make sure I don't get this wrong...
...the pictures have been posted already on DU?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. Yes they have. I saw them with my own little peepers.
:)
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
46. I looked back in my bookmarks to see if I had them but I only have one of his threads
bookmarked, pics from DC protest. Maybe someone can find them.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #46
63. Thank you.
It would be helpful if someone could find the pics and let me have a copy.






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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. Here is the original thread I posted with the photo
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
14. Were the cops trying to confiscate his flash card?
Rent-a-cops, security guards and regular law enforcement will try to tell you to turn over your flash card if they don't like what you're taking pictures of. Don't do it. They absolutely need a warrant to seize anything of yours and it is absolutely not illegal to take pictures of anything in this country.
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NCDem60 Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
58. You can be restricted from taking pictures of
a surprising number of places in the US. For example you can not take photos in most Malls. They are considered private property and the owners can control photo taking among many other things. In fact photography of any privately owned property is at the discretion of the owner with the exception that it is permissible to take photos of any private building if the photographer remains on public property. Also it is illegal to take photos through a window of someones home. Military bases have restricted areas where photos are not allowed.

This case however never should have come to trial and you will notice the charges were not about taking pictures. Public areas should not have restrictions on photography.

I'm posting this because your statement above that it is "absolutely not illegal to take pictures of anything in this country" could get someone in trouble.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
61. That is very good to know. Of course, often in bad situations
They just beat the crap out of you and take your camera stuff anyway (If my memories of the Chicago Democratic Convention are in working order.)
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
15. It gets WORSE....
Read Raging's blog entry here. The judge actually gave him four times the sentence the prosecutor asked for...then lectured him about his "attitude" of "non-remorse," and how he should visit Arlington National Cemetery to learn about what real heroes are like!!!

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

I don't use these terms lightly, but Judge Fernandez is a fucking Nazi and a disgrace to the judicial system. May he rot in hell!

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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
57. That judge is human waste. I think I'll write him and say as much.
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djp2 Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. Watch out!
He'll probably issue a warrant for your arrest!?!
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. I don't plan to go to Florida ever
Let him issue all he wants.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. It's a damn travesty.
Let's keep this kicked!

:kick:

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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. kick n/t
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
19. ttt... thanks for the update
i remember reading about this when it first happened
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. This is why I have no faith in the "justice" system at all...
I've been done dirty by a crooked judge before.. in Walker County, Ga.

Even back in my worst days, if I got caught doing something wrong I didn't blame the cops or anything. They were just doing their job the same as I was doing mine. It was all just part of the game... sometimes *they* won, sometimes *I* won... if I couldn't buy the cop, or the judge, I took my lumps that I deserved.

The way things are going now though, it's no wonder that some of us prefer to play judge, jury, and (sometimes) executioner ourselves. There's too many fascist jackboots out there now, and you never know if you're gonna get a fair shake or not...

Ghost

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. Son of a bitch!
I wondered what happened to him! Is there anything we can do? What about a collection for legal fees, or does he have a P.D.?
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
24. This is insane - 100 hours of community service, anger management class and $540.50 in court costs
It really sounds to me as if Judge Fernandez is in effect using Carlos as an example to others not to question the police even (especially?) when they're wrong.

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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. If he has the money and time for an appeal...
Then there's a good chance of getting the verdict overturned.

Regardless, fuck the police, and the corrupt judicial system that enables abuses like this.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. If not, let's hope an atty that can afford to do it pro bono steps up. (nt)
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
26. is he going to jail?
is it a felony? i recall the incident. that just sucks.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. Crock. Of. Shit.
He needs a better lawyer and he needs to sue their asses.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
29. Here's a solution
I don't mean any disrespect for RagingInMiami but I just found this a couple of minutes ago

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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Gee thanks.



Another knee jerk reaction.



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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. jerk?
lighten up, jerk reaction
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
31. Contrary to what the judge wishes
I am not letting this go. I plan to appeal until I get both convictions overturned.

Here is my latest update.



http://carlosmiller.com/2008/06/18/its-finally-over-or-...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Is "hank" a troll that was led there from this site?
Or do you get your own freeper scum traffic?
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Hank is one of my regular trolls
Sometimes he goes by Spanky. Other times by Slim Pickens.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
53. Alice in Wonderland time. RIM convicted of being a true (photo)journalist;
the lapdog of the corporate media eulogized endlessly all weekend.

This is nuts. Just nuts.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
32. but we don't we don't live a police state, nope
:eyes:
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R n/t
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
41. Texas and Florida news ALWAYS pisses me off.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
43. I've been waiting to hear the outcome of this
my thought are with RagingInMiami --- This is the same police force that laughed about shooting the lady in the rear with blanks when they were protesting a few years back...

Amazing arrogance these sob's show to the First Amendment... I hope there is an attorney that will sue them on his behalf? Yes?




One Nation Under Surveillance (B*sh) Stickers
www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
44. Nasty.
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 08:42 PM by HypnoToad
It's also a reason why I won't go into amateur journalism or the paparazzi. I'd rather be a professional, if I were to go into photojournalism, and even then I don't know what police would tolerate.

:(

((Having been in situations before*, ALWAYS obey the police and give them their space. I wasn't there at the time, but I can fathom their POV as well. Sorry to be in the minority and I do have sympathy, but I can't pass judgment either way; only share my opinions...))



* A gang-related stabbing at the Taste of Minnesota; I wasn't about to cross the cops... or anyone else.

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kcass1954 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Carlos isn't an amateur - he's very much a professional.
This is his livelihood, and he takes it seriously.

Miami police have a reputation for being supreme assholes - they're probably tied for first with Davie in their assholiness.

I'll pass judgment even if you won't. I met Carlos at a DU meetup 3 years ago or so, and have run into him at several protests. I get good feelings from him. He's a real stand-up guy. If he says something happened, you can bet the farm that it happened just like he said.
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
45. Right, meanwhile Americans are under surveillance everywhere
against our consent, the record of which gets sent to locations unknown.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
47. This is certainly a case for the
ACLU, right?? Please tell me yes.

www.wearableartnow.com
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beltanefauve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. I believe it is
False arrest, excessive detention... The ACLU was a big help to me and many others after the arrests at the RNC in NY in 2004. There are still cases either being settled or going to trial, four years later.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
49. Kick.
Carlos was railroaded.

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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
50. Grrrrr. Don't get me started about Florida and the way they run things down there.
Bastards.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
51. OMG, the strangest thing.
I was just thinking about what the hell Raging has been up to lately..I haven't seen him lately, and then I read this thread. I haven't read any of the linked threads yet but I will.

All the best to you Carlos. :hug: :hi: :)
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #51
60. He took a picture that I will treasure for the rest of my life. I want to help him some way.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
52. I remember when this happened
He posted about the incident. Good luck brother.
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minnesota_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
55. If the police are in the wrong, they don't deserve any respect
I don't care what legislation is on the books or what any judge says about it.
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penndragon69 Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
56. Stinking Gestapo PIGS!
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blueraven95 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
62. kick
:hug: for Carlos.
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