Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Well, here goes...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:59 PM
Original message
Well, here goes...
... :7 I am dismayed by some of the DU response to Tim Russert's death. My thoughts:

It's about HUMANITY. Bill Clinton had a good line about how, as a people, we always have things that divide us. But our strength as a country will be when we realize that our common humanity matters more.

There are times to fight, and issues to fight about that are most justified and necessary for our country. Death or serious illness of another person...be they male or female, of any race or religion, Democrat or Republican, etc... is a time when our common humanity should win the day. That shows our strength as a people. It's also how we win...whether it's an election, the war on 'terror', or our common future.

Some on DU have shown a tremendous lack of EMPATHY...for Tim Russert and his family and for his NBC and MSNBC family who are obviously mourning. On the issues (time spent, public airwaves, biased media) I always have and still do agree with many here. But this is not the time. Where is your humanity? Where is the EMPATHY?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. My empathy lies with the families of the 4100
who have died in the illegal war Russert helped to promote.

Why is his death more important or more tragic?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. And why are we missing SO MUCH NEWS while the repetative drone goes on about him?
Not saying his life was without meaning, but a little perspective would be nice.

Yep, what about all our troops and all the innocent civilians in Iraq killed? A little news would be in order.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. exactly
i just click the box next to any thread about russert, it's become so annoying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. I agree about perspective...
...in the media. It's never been a strength. :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Somehow, I can't help but doubt that...
because Russert wasn't a monster-- he was human, and therfore fallable, just like the rest of us.

Empathy doesn't come with strings or price tags on it. Our common humanity is unconditional and a death is an occasion for us to come together, not celebrate our divisions.

A

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. i am not sure i agree he wasn't a monster
Promoting a war when he knew lies ON HIS SHOW helped start it is rather monstrous in my book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Word UP TB-
I do believe someday everyone will realize this truth-

:hi:

peace~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
44. Peace...
...to you. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
43. "Empathy doesn't come with strings or price tags on it. ..
...Our common humanity is unconditional and a death is an occasion for us to come together, not celebrate our divisions." Your words are BEAUTIFUL! Thank you. :)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Exactly
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. It's not...
...but, like them, he has family. He has a son. He has a father. He has a wife. He has friends and co-workers at NBC. All are mourning.

I just think it says something about who WE are, if we can't recognize that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. And I have said many times my sympathy lies with them
But this man was no great journalist. Canonizing him is just beyond ignorant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
45. I know...
...proud2Blib. And I think we agree on a lot. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. There is great empathy for his family.
Your premise is wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Do you think they would...
...think so if they were reading DU?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Many people confuse criticism with grave dancing.
I think the criticism has increased proportionately with the hero-worshiping and suspect sadness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. look right here in this thread- He's called a "monster"- and held
almost solely responsible for the deaths of the 4100 gi's.

If what that poster says is correct we are ALL monsters, and the blood is on ALL our hands, because we didn't put our lives between the war, and the troops. If we had, if every one of us who understood that Bush's fucked up plan to go to war had literally put our flesh and blood - en masse- out there in the street- then we could claim 'innocence'- (I'm talking beyond the organized protests that many of us DID participate in- none of us were willing to die to stop this war)

How many who condemn Russert for the war refused to pay our taxes, defunded the war where only we as individuals actually can? by shutting down the govt? Not many that I know of- and those that I know who have done just that, aren't calling Russert the equivalent of almost an architect of this war-

DU seems as fucked up as it ever gets on this issue.

Which is sad.

"Suspect sadness"????? "Hero worship"??? As ugly as this may sound, I'm willing to say that there are people among the 4100 casualties who went to war with Iraq happily- Who believed that Bush is a great commander in chief- Yet, I still mourn the loss of their life- losses that should never have happened. I mourn the loss of those that our nation has killed- Nameless and faceless to many, but as much a part of this family called humanity as Tim Russert- as any of the 4100 fallen soldiers- as you, or I.

:nuke:

I apologize for the tenor of my words, but I cannot comprehend how soul-less we are becoming.

peace~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
53. Not everyone...
...Btb. :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm sure a lot of us were holding our tongues out of respect...
But then came the canonization of St. Russert. People were talking about what a great journalist he was, how he was one of the last of the 'real' journalists, etc. That kind of manure had to be challenged.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. I agree that some were...
...putting their humanity first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Oh, so you think he was a great journalist?
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. Bill Moyers...
...is a great journalist. My empathy is for anyone who has died...and the people who cared about them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
islandmkl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. when the 'big picture' gets blurry, it can be too easy to find some example of 'clarity'...
to define some situation...

all the 'helpers' of the run-up and promotion of the war in Iraq can include most of us at DU...

vocal against, 'i knew they were lying', anti-war bumper stickers and t-shirts, etc....

it's all fine and dandy in the area of 'making a statement'...

but who among us has spoken to the power, confronted the power directly, staked a claim in the fight against the powers that control every manipulatable aspect of our society...who has gone to jail, been maced, been beaten for their stand??

...(and I admittedly am part of the 9_? % who have not come close to doing anything more than pissing off RWers and idiots)

WE are the problem...WE are the solution....

nobody on TV got us into this war, regardless of their 'impact' or their 'lack of strength questioning the administration'...

i am not making an effort to defend Tim Russert's performance on TV...if we need a talking head to HELP US get our country back on track, let alone hold off the thieves and thugs attempting to high jack the Constitution, well...

kill your TV...it is not the voice of the people...could have been, possibly, but never really was...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. What about the humanity of the thousands of Americans and Iraqis who have died?
Where is the EMPATHY?

Why all the grief for a man who willingly worked with the cabal to bring about the deaths of all those thousands?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Those who loved...
...Tim Russert have to grieve. Empathy...mine, at least...is for the families of all who have died. And for their friends and co-workers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. If you haven't seen the empathy here for them- the rage and the
frustration that we cannot seem to stop this, then you are either blind- or stupid.

We have all enabled this hell to happen. Every single last one of us. Don't fool yourself. People ask why the German citizens didn't stop the Nazi's? Many put their lives on the line to stop the madness- Have WE?

peace~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #31
51. My post was a response to YvonneCA, not a thread addressed to everyone on DU!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. The world can read what you write....
...here. And choose to respond. :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. I am just tired of the entire NBC crew crying on our shoulders
They need to move on. Sorry, people die everyday, the family mourns. But it is usually a private affair, even for the rich and famous. Just because he was a talking head doesn't mean he was king.
The world will go on without him. and if the NBC crew can ever pull themselves together, they might go on as well.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. I think...
...this is extra difficult for them because he died WITH them, at work. That's traumatic. I also think they will pull themselves together.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. I agree with you. In time we can discuss his shortcomings but not
now while those who worked with and loved him are in mourning. It's the decent thing to do. I don't know why he caved into the right so many times because he was not a neo-con. Maybe it was to keep his job. How many of us have had to compromise our principles for the same reason. But whatever his choices right or wrong, right now is not the time to hurl invectives at him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. "It's the decent thing to do"...
...your words are excellent. I completely agree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. OH THE HUMANITY!!!




















Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. I'm Sitting At My Desk Sobbing Swampy
The one with the young woman lying on the grave of her loved one just hurts my heart so much. I'm not even going to mention the name of the former host of MTP. I have that little respect, and that MUCH contempt for him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. I wonder when I will see my cousin again.
I wonder where he is.... Basra? ... Mosul? ... Thumrait? ... Riyad? ... returning stateside again... and again... and again.... and again... I wonder if he will be ok. :cry:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Ben Wonders When He Will See V Again?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. Bingo!!
You nailed it once again, mon ami.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Hey there, Swamp Rat...
...love your pictures! I have most of them on my computer, too. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. Thank you.
I hope my post above help brought some perspective.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. We Democrats...
...are about nothing, if not about our common humanity. :grouphug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. Where were you when LBJ died?
Did you lay the tens of thousands of dead from Viet Nam at his grave?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. None of your goddamn business.























Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. Indeed the Humanity Swampy-
and if we become unable to leave room for grieving the death of a newsperson- If we find the mourning 'tiresome'- or offensive-

What really seperates us from those who KNEW- Cheney- Rove- Rumsfeld- Bush- etc. that people would die by the thousands?

People who they politely transform into digestable word bites known as "collateral damage"- ??? Code for innocent bystanders- children, old people, mothers fathers- shopkeepers, vagrants- ????


We are ALL human beings. Do we really have a limit on our ability to care? Is it the stupid wall-street "compassion fatigue", that is hyped to us, telling us it is somehow "normal" - "expected"- "acceptable" to simply not care ???? Or to harbor resentment and hatred- the desire for revenge?

I don't mean to vent at you- I've come to know you to be a compassionate person.

I'm tired. maybe I've just stayed alive too long-

:shrug:
peace~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. It's never too long...
...to stay alive. :7 GREAT post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well, I guess we need some Empathogen then. Anyone got any X? n/t
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 01:38 PM by Wiley50
cause I'd have to be on drugs to have any empathy for that mil-ind-cong-media complex Shill
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Got any empathy...
...for his son, Wiley50 ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. Posted this in another thread
Russert is dead. May he RIP.

Russert had his moments, good and disappointing. Claiming that Russert "utterly failed" as a journalist and burdening him with all the ills of the media, is a bit hyperbolic. This also overlooks everyone at the NYT and others, including Joe Klein, Chris Matthews and countless others in the media who actually aided the administration in significant ways. Compare Russert to Fox, which actually embodies everything that's wrong with the media and society.

From Democracy Arsenal:

Russert

Posted by The Editors

Those of us at Democracy Arsenal and National Security Network want to convey our sympathies to the family and friends of Tim Russert. We counted on his reporting and his tough questions to help illuminate some of the most important national security debates in this country. His contributions to our national debate will be missed.]


One of Russert's best interviews:

Transcript for Sept. 10: Dick Cheney

Count how many lies Cheney told in that one.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Thanks...
...for this, Prosense. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
24. It all depends on the person. Do I need humanity and empathy when mrbush or cheney dies?
What I've seen about Russert is criticism of the long involved MSM coverage and being critical of the coverage is fine as I agree, MSM has their priorities wrong.

If mrbush or cheney were to die, do I need to be respectful? Do I need to show EMPATHY? Or can my humanity part be glad they are no longer around?

See, it all depends.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. You've got it backwards...
...I think. It's like the torture issue wasn't about whether a terrorist deserved it,(or whether Bush or Cheney deserved it), it was what it said about we, Americans. How WE react to a person's death says things about us, as Americans, or as DU. It's about OUR humanity.

Bill Clinton had a good line about how, as a people, we always have things that divide us. But our strength as a country will be when we realize that our common humanity matters more.

There are times to fight, and issues to fight about that are most justified and necessary for our country. Death or serious illness of another person...be they male or female, of any race or religion, Democrat or Republican, etc... is a time when our common humanity should win the day. That shows our strength as a people. It's also how we win...whether it's an election, the war on 'terror', or our common future.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
36. i have complete empathy for his family -- but he was no saint of journalism.
i think the over-the-top wall-to-wall memorializing of him hasn't served him well as it's largely to blame for the backlash. this is the first and last time i'll say anything about it b/c it's just worth our time. sorry for his family -- but every beltway insider could keel over and i wouldn't mourn our loss.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
48. Well YvonneCa-
thank you for posting this.

Thank you for caring.

Someday, I sincerely believe- people will come to see how much there is that connects us as beings- let all the shit that is life in our society fall away, and reach out to one another as the members of this family of humanity that we are.

Wise people have said this for eons- someday the world really could live as ONE- we have to keep dreaming- keep imagining and keep trying to see beyond the surfaces.

:grouphug:
peace~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. "I sincerely believe- people will come to see how much there is that connects us...
...as beings..." I really appreciate your words. I happen to believe that there are way more REALLY CARING people out there than it sometimes appears. You are clearly one of them. I will keep imagining, if you will. DEAL? :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Jul 10th 2014, 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC