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They now ask us to remove our hats during the National Anthem at Sporting events.

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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:41 AM
Original message
They now ask us to remove our hats during the National Anthem at Sporting events.
I never understood why? I'm an ex paratrooper and have stood in many parades---in uniform----while the National Anthem was sung and we never removed our caps/berets.

I honestly think that having the choice of keeping my cap on is what the song is all about.
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woodsprite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. We were always taught to remove our hats when the National Anthem is played.
I assumed since the hat is part of a soldier's uniform, that is the reason they've never removed them. All dignitaries and many of the spectators at our Memorial Day parade remove theirs, as well as people at my kids concert and sporting events we go to in our area.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Indeed - the idea of a salute is that the military shouldn't remove their headgear
The Coldstream Guards appear to have been the first to depart from this practice as a Regimental Order of 1745 reads: The men are ordered not to pull off their hats when the when they pass an officer, or to speak to them, but only to clap up their hands to their hats and bow as they pass them.

An extract from the Royal Scots Standing Orders of 1762 stated: as nothing disfigures the hats or dirties the lace worn more than taking off the hats, the men for the future are only to raise the back of their hands to them (hats) with a brisk motion when they pass an officer.
...
Saluting, however, should be undertaken intelligently and only when headdress is worn.

http://www.defence.gov.au/ARMY/traditions/documents/Ori...


Civilians remove their headgear; the military salute.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. But why?
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. last time I went to a sporting event I would not stand for the national anthem
What does the national anthem have to do with a sporting event, anyway?
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. I have not stood for the national anthem since * took office
Sorry, flame away at me if you want, but I just haven't had any pride in my country ever since * and his SCOTUS buddies blatantly stole the election in '00. His actions since that coup have only made things worse.

Hopefully Obama will be able to restore my pride in this great country.
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GTurck Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. I am in major trouble...
because I did not stand for General Odierno at a Memorial Day event. I was not really protesting, consciously, just could not see why he merited a standing ovation. Our son organized the event and in all other ways I am extremely proud of him but on the issue of standing for the anthem, the flag or some person he his highly and self-rightgeously conventional and now he is punishing me for my lack of "patiotism". I don't always say the pledge either and if I do I do not repeat the phrase 'under God' but fall silent until we get to 'indivisible'.
Oh, my husband didn't stand either; he was playing with our youngest grandchild.
I am hoping Obama makes me feel like a citizen again too and the pledge becomes meaningful again as well.
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dems_rightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well...
If jack-booted thugs ever come and drag you away for not removing your cap, this should be revisited.

Until then, yes, you're free to wear your cap.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. Good question and why men and not women? nt
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Glorfindel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Because the sight of women's hair inflames the passions of men
and turns their minds from the pure contemplation of patriotism to lusts of the flesh. For this reason women must keep their heads covered, especially in church, lest men be led astray. For men, on the other hand, covering the head is a sign of power, and removing the head-covering is symbolic of submission. It has long been tradition that men should uncover their heads in the presence of the sovereign, and, by extension, when singing the national anthem or pledging allegiance to the flag. One removes one's hat or cap, and holds it over one's heart.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Doesn't do much for me.
>>>>and turns their minds from the pure contemplation of patriotism to lusts of the flesh.>>>> For this reason women must keep their heads covered, especially in church, lest men be led astray.>>>>>

>>>> For men, on the other hand, covering the head is a sign of power, and removing the head-covering is symbolic of submission. It has long been tradition that men should uncover their heads in the presence of the sovereign, and, by extension, when singing the national anthem or pledging allegiance to the flag. One removes one's hat or cap, and holds it over one's heart.
>>>>>>

This DO get complicated. I think I'll just take the ezy way out and mindlessly conform to whatever everyopne else seems to be doing.

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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm proud to take my hat off.
But I'm not one of those who insist others do the same.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. just because they ask
doesn't mean you have to do it. you can keep yer hat on!
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. I don't think this is new
I've never heard of people (with the exception of people in military uniform) NOT being asked to take off their hats.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. I've never understood why they sing the national anthem at sporting events.
:shrug:
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. the spies and terrorists don't stand , so then we arrest them.
it's cheap,easy and effective.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's a good thing I don't attend sporting events. I'd have to buy a hat to keep on.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
15. And put them on in temple.
for pretty much the same reason.

go figure.
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maui9002 Donating Member (342 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
18. Couldn't find the origin of the custom of removing hats to show respect
But with a little searching I did find that it is actually U.S. federal law that men (those not in the military) take off their hats during the singing of the national anthem and that yesterday, June 14, was Flag Day. While it's the "law", apparently there is no penalty in the act (United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10) for failure to follow protocol.

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Mom also taught that one STOOD when a color guard in a parade passed by.
It may not be a US Federal law, but it was a LAW in our family. She was pretty adamant about it and it did make sense to us to show respect for the flag in a parade, as the symbol of military personnel and all those others who made this a great nation.

We saved our pennies (literally) and managed tickets for a bus ride and grandstand seats at the Rose Parade one year. When the first color guard went by, we stood up. Two old ladies behind us grumbled and complained and voiced hope that we didn't intend to do it each time "somebody with a stupid flag goes by".

When the color guard passed, we sat down. Mom did NOT. She drew up to her tallest height, spun around and proceeded to express her opinion that THAT COLOR GUARD, and all others, carried the same flag that thousands of US servicemen had fought and died under. That rising in salute to a color guard was not some empty gesture, done by rote, but rather a remembrance and salute to all those who have sacrificed for this great nation.

She also inquired if those biddies also liked to put down the youth of America for being lazy and not interested in their country. She asked if they belittled the 'kids who are just now taking to the street to protest the war in Vietnam, kids who were at least paying attention and getting involved in their democracy'. She did get a round of applause from everyone else within ear shot.

Go Mom.

She was of a generation that had many missing from any high school reunion. She learned and played drums in a swing band because the men were few and far between when she was young, but the USO needed bands in towns of any size and the ladies mustered to take on that small request for helping provide the chance to dance and forget war for just a little while for so many people who served.

Tribute and remembrance. Salute. So long as it is genuine and not something done by rote, I will have a double helping, thank you. But I also respect those who do not participate, so long as they don't whine that they are missing the parade.

I am also of a generation that has many missing from any high school reunion. If I wear a hat, it comes off during the anthem. If a color guard passes, I stop and stand erect, in silent tribute and remembrance, a salute to the multitudes I never had the honor to meet, but owe my nation to.

When Ford pardoned Nixon, I found myself choking on the last phrase of the Pledge of Allegiance. Mom and I attended a meeting where it was normally said and I feared what would happen when I was unable to get the words out. She noticed, but said nothing. On the way home, I told her I just couldn't say it because I had seen justice WAS NOT for all. She smiled. She was happy. I was not doing such things by rote or cultural conditioning. I THOUGHT about it each time. She told me it was good I could not lie and say the pledge if that was how it affected me now.

Next time we were together at a parade, she nudged me after the color guard had passed. 'Glad you can separate the bad men do from those who really served America.' I think I understood my mother's whole mission in life at that moment.

And I will stand when the flag goes by or the anthem is played. It is MY flag, not the property of bad men and women who use it for cover. While I do wish we, as a people, would change the national anthem from a poem about a war, sung to the tune of an old English drinking song, I will stand when it is played. Stand and go into my own private world of wishing peace to many who fell and many who face such peril still. Then, my mind reminds me to redouble my efforts to participate in democracy, that such people will not be misused and abused by bad leaders. So, yeah, I am thankful to take a stand. It reminds me what my mission is.

Happy Father's Day, Mom. I miss buying you something from the hardware store again this year.




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woodsprite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. At our Memorial Day Parade, they pull a
handful of kids out of the crowd to stand in front of the reviewing stand and instruct them to do just that. Stand at attention when a color guard goes by. Many of the kids remember from year to year. It seems to be the older folks who don't do it anymore - whether it's bad knees, politics or something else keeping them down. My knees held out for about the first hour of up and down. After that, I just stayed seated ;) and watched kids do it.
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