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My first OP will be my last, in honor of Tim Russert

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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:05 AM
Original message
My first OP will be my last, in honor of Tim Russert
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 01:39 AM by XtraProudDem
I've been lurking on DU for about five years now, and just began participating in late 2006. I think I have about 80 or so posts, but no original posts - until this one.

I've seen some pretty ugly stuff on this site in the past five years, but I think it takes an extraordinary amount of callousness to suggest that it's out of line for NBC News/MSNBC to spend a few days paying tribute to their leader, the late Tim Russert.

I'd like for those who are so disturbed by the tribute to take a moment and imagine one of their co-workers collapsing on the job from a fatal heart attack. Imagine what it would feel like to know that there was nothing that you could do to help him. Imagine knowing that the assistance that his expertise provided you on a daily basis - the assistance that you counted on to get your own work accomplished - would disappear forever. If you worked in television news and this happened in your office, what would you do?

There have been many people who have said things like "I feel for his family, but I don't like his politics." These people don't know shit about Tim Russert's politics. He was a professional journalist, and asking difficult questions and holding people's feet to the fire was his job, no matter who was sitting in the opposite chair. Do I think he should have done more to expose the people that have nearly destroyed this country? Sure I do. Do I think he should have played the tape of Senator Obama leading the Senate in the Pledge Of Allegiance and shut down the flag pin controversy once and for all? Sure I do.

We don't know what Tim Russert's party affiliation was. He was most likely a Democrat, given his upbringing and his early professional career. It was his job to be unbiased. Those who think he was a "GOP water carrier" are delusional. The guy had class, and he did everything he could to remain objective and neutral. Maybe he didn't always succeed. Would you have always succeeded?

I read Tim Russert's first book, Big Russ and Me. It's an excellent book. It's very touching, and it has a lot of background information that explains where he was coming from on a personal and a professional level. It touched me personally because I was born in Buffalo, too. Those of us from Buffalo tend to defend each other. That should be easy for anyone to understand.

A lot of us here on DU look up to Keith Olbermann, as do I. Keith looked up to Tim Russert, and considered him to be a professional inspiration and a good friend. I'm sure Keith knows Russert's character better than any of us do.

I'm going to hang out here on DU for a few more days, and then I think I'm out of here. Why? Friday, while talking to a good friend (a progressive friend) about Tim Russert's death, we started talking about who might replace Russert on Meet The Press. My friend suggested David Gregory. I immediately started going on about how Gregory was a hack, a republican enabler that danced on a stage with Karl Rove - all stuff I read about here on DU. My friend looked at me like I had lost my mind. Then later that evening I watched David Gregory on television, talking about what his friend Tim meant to him, while fighting back tears. There's nothing wrong with David Gregory - he's just a guy trying to do his job - much like you or me. My friend is right - sometimes I do act like I've lost my mind. I think this place is making me mean.

I'm sure that further down this page I'll be accused of being a "repug" and a "concern troll," whatever the hell that is. I know that no one cares if I ever post again. But one thing is certain - I don't want to be associated with any group of people who think it's appropriate to tell me or anyone else how to mourn, or for how long.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you
Timmy wasn't a favorite of mine, but there is a gaping hole left with his absence. And I don't think there is anyone who can sit in his chair.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. WTF?
do you think none of us have ever lost coworkers before? It's fine for them to tribute Mr. Russert but the non-stop cannonization is OVERKILL. And Gregory IS a hack.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yup.....
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. Then why don't you change the channel ?
CNN is still reporting the news. What would you say to me if I said I'm tired of watching all of the devastating floods accross the heartland? I can only feel their pain for so long before it really gets to me (having lived through one in 1955 in Ct.) I know what it means to see your house floating down the river, and a town you no longer recognize. Let MSNBC mourn their loss as they see fit. Too bad that....you don't approve.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. you completely miss the point n/t
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. No......I don't think I did.
Who's point do you think I missed? Your's or the OP's? I happen to agree with her(or him). If you don't care to watch something, change the channel. Just the way we put someone on "ignore" here. It's not the only news channel.
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #41
74. The people own the NBC licensed airwaves.
They have a public trust and have abused it terribly. Part of the reason we are in Iraq is the Tim Russert and others dutifully repeated BushCo propaganda in the lead up to the invasion. They should get off the air or turn their license over to a more responsible outlet like McClatchy. When one person dies it is a small tragedy for those personally affected. What the MSM enabled BushCo team did is a tragedy for humanity and our planet.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #74
132. MSNBC is not "public airwaves"
It's cable -- when somebody has a big TV career they get a big TV send-off.

I can't believe the whining on the TR tribs -- However, I don't really like posts like this OP either, Come on people -- there's 100,000 people on this site and if a handful are less than graceful in a situation like this don't paint all of us with the same brush.
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #132
168. I said NBC, not MSNBC n/t
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #38
215. It was definitely you that missed the point.... n/t
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
170. well whoever is arguing with you is on my ignore list. maybe you should consider it, too! lol EOM
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #170
209. Holy cow!
Yours too?
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #35
207. change the channel? does that mean sorta like "love it or leave it"?
Same brand, different flavor
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
100. Change the channel
If you don't like it, don't watch.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #100
208. yup...that i like....if you don't like it here in America, you can always move to another country!
Same brand, different flavor
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #208
216. There are like 300 channels on TV
No one forces you to watch MSNBC or TV at all. MSNBC: Love it or Leave it. :)
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #208
218. not really...at least not any country of your choosing.
lots of countries have some pretty stringent immigration policies/laws.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
148. I second the WTF & the rest is true also. I also always wonder about those who have to say their
long goodbys as hey, if I thought so little of those on DU who have a right to their opinion as you, and of what you think DU has become, then I would just leave without the lengthy post. Anyway, you have your opinion and I have mine.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
187. Oh but he was a celebrity
and that makes all the difference

:sarcasm:

My company gives 3 days for immediately family, nothing for a coworker. Maybe time to go to the funeral, but that is it.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
228. RIght... I mean who the hell mours for nearly a week?
/sarcasm..
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think it's a fine OP, and you should be proud. nt
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. I wish you had posted more. And I'd like to see you post more often.
This place can be awful, I agree. I've often found myself thinking (and saying) things I've read here, despite knowing that they're totally unsupported--and then being embarrassed later.

But at the same time, it's a great community, and there's tons of good stuff here, too. I think the good outweighs the bad (or else I wouldn't post here), but I know that the good can't outweigh the bad unless good posters share their thoughts.

Anyway, if you decide to leave, take care; I'd rather you stay sane than stay here. But if you decide to stay, I'd also like to see you post more often.

Thanks.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you for your thoughtful post.
I really can't comment on what kind of journalist Tim Russert was; I never watched him and know very little about him.

But you are more than entitled to grieve his death, and for as long as it's necessary for you.

You are entirely right about that.

It takes a thick skin, and a firm point of view to stay level-headed and true to yourself in the political forums.

That's why I mostly play in the Lounge, these days!

You've spoken very clearly about your views, and I think it would be a shame if you left on a permanent basis.

Take a break if you need one, and then return.

Try some of the other forums...there are many here!

K&R

:patriot:
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. not worth the energy..
oy. ACK. Gack.

:banghesd: :banghead:
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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. It's okay to mourn someone...
but don't go fucking overboard with it like they've been doing. There's more important things going on right now for people who are alive. You know, the stuff going on in the Midwest, the quake in China, the illegal war, etc. Or I guess you wouldn't know because none of that has been mentioned on MSNBC since Russert died. :eyes:
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
107. You are right, but I'm going to give them until...
6:00 am tomorrow, then they need to get on with it. Their usual weekend fare - after noon - is always some doc block or other, anyway. But I've heard enough good stuff about Tim Russert to last me a good, long time, and the idea that the guy had no foibles worth mentioning dishonors not only his memory, but the truth, which is supposed to be what journalism is all about.
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Swagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
9.  he's certainly getting more attention than the soldiers who died
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 01:17 AM by Swagman
today and will be forgotten tomorrow.

Sad as his death is for co-workers, friends and family, he died in the safety of a TV studio and not in a badly built humvee in Iraq .

Some perspective is needed. One death is no worse than another.
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. The humvee was built just fine.
For the streets of Washington DC, not Baghdad.
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MattSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
66. And how many of those soldiers would still be living...
if Tiny Tim bucked the crowd and as a "so-called" professional journalist actually did some original investigation? Like the kind millions of average citizens did and discovered in 20 minutes that the airtight case for war was total BS? But like all the major MSM cohorts, he fell into line. When the White House and it's corporate backers said jump, Tiny Tim asked "How high and how often"?

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. I don't have to imagine that
a medic, friend of mine and fellow training officer, died in a call, He was run over, in the previous shift to mine

The first thing we learned when going on duty was that he passed at the trauma bay.

It felt like a kick in the gut.

We pulled ourselves together and worked our shift, and responded to calls

The head of the local Red Cross chapter (mexican Red Cross) he died at home from a heart attack. He left barely an hour before, he was worked on by doctors and medics but he was dead... while I was on shift

He was loved by all... and probably the best man many of us knew.

Again, it was a mule kick.... to the gut

We responded to calls. And nobody abandoned his or her post.

Both were buried, with full MILITARY honors, and flags were folded, the whole nine yards. We kept responding

Hell, I went from the cemetery when the President was laid to rest straight to a call wearing a full dress uniform

So no... I don't give them a pass.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
72. thank you. nt
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40ozDonkey Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. I've stayed out of it because I know little about Tim or his politics.
However, his sudden passing made me try to track down a friend I hadn't heard from in 8 years. I left some messages on some answering machines with similar names and I'm hopeful for a callback. I've missed my friend from time to time, but on Friday I did more than ever. I just want to know that she's OK.

I didn't listen to people's opinions on here about Tim because I don't a good goddamn what anybody here thinks of Tim Russert. I have real shit to worry about, like why the hell I lost touch with a woman I loved.

:shrug:

Good luck to you in all endeavors.
I'll keep checking my caller ID, maybe some luck rubs off on me.


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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. Thank you
I recently reconnected with a friend that I had lost for the past 12 years, and it meant so much for me to find her again.

I wish you the best of luck. When you find her, you will be so glad you looked.
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40ozDonkey Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
37. Thanks, man. n/t
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. Stand up for your beliefs and don't be swayed by others....
While those who choose to see things (as do many on the RW) as "good versus evil" and "black versus white" are quite vocal on DU, they are not the majority, IMO.

Most here are more sensitive to the value of the entirety of a human's life, but also do not strive for ideological purity. I believe that most here are mature enough to recognize that people may not behave as one would expect for a variety of reasons, not the least that they might truly have a genuine difference of opinion.

My anger towards the corporate media is very strong, but I see people like Russert on a continuum and do not just focus on the extremes. I too like KO, but he has disappointed me at times as well. That doesn't mean I write him off...

Some people do behave very poorly in the anonymity of cyberspace. Don't let their unpleasantness and bravado sway you.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
14. Russert wasn't about ideology at all - he carved out a very specific niche
keeping politicians accountable for what they said.

In a way it was a 'one trick pony' show, but it was a great 'trick' and a great service to the country.

No he wasn't a social commentator and a trivial mistake seemed to bear the same weight as a felony.

No he wasn't perfect.

Politicians knew however that they were going to have to answer for their previous statements.

Some, even some this year, skipped MTP because they didn't want to face him.

A decent guy who developed a narrow but useful niche in American political reporting - making politicans answer for what they had previously said.

And he was folksy without being cheezy. I liked him but I new he wasn't going to raise the huge issues especially on the war or the ethics of living in a society that fails in its basic moral imperatives - like providing health care for all - but that is our job.

You could trust Russert.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
55. Thanks grantcart
You said it better than I did. I can always count on you to see things clearly.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
102. If you would like to learn something about Russert and what the "press" has
been doing to our country, this thread is a good place to start:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

There is much more out there on the Internets, and there are some very knowledgeable and patient DUers who would be happy to do some edumacatin'

unless, of course, you don't want to have your eyes opened.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
115. he might have kept Democratic politicians accountable
although I often think he manufactured attacks on them, but he hardly did that job with Republicans did he? I have read many times on the Daily Howler how Russert the ferocious bulldog just slobbered and wagged his tail when faced with Republicans.
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springhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
230. You have got be kidding me........
You are, right?
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. Thank you for posting this.
I come here less and less. The meanness on Du can overwhelm at times. I don't want it in my life.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Me too!
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
103. If either of you would like to learn something, here is a good place to start:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

OP by one of most knowledgeable DUers, lots of learning to be had on that thread and elsewhere.

It's comfortable, but dangerous, to keep your eyes tight shut as to what has been happening in this country...
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. Oh yeah -- he did a fabulous job of holding people's feet to the fire.
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 01:24 AM by truedelphi
Like in October of 2006, when he had that staged interview with Cheney, and somewhat went on the attack, asking a few difficult questions.

Gee, if only that interview had taken place two and a half years earlier!!

But you can't serve the Truth and your Masters at General Electric both. It has to be one or the other.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Does KO serve the truth or his Masters at GE?
I'd say he serves the truth. So did Timmy the best way he knew how. And like I said previously, there is no one to replace him. Not even Keith.


On the other hand, if Tweety passed away, I would not be so kind to his memory.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. But you are wrong, and hopefully you will learn this lesson
he can and WILL be replaced

Nobody every is irreplaceable
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
50. 'Replacing' him and replacing him are two different things
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 08:30 AM by DainBramaged
let's just be literal, shall we?
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
165. What matters
is not so much who replaces him physically, but the media culture that his replacement will be operating in. That will not change with Russert's death, and his replacement will be drawn from the same gang of corporate-beholden hacks who are too much in love with their access to the famous and powerful to do the job of a journalist in what is supposed to be a free and democratic society.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
75. KO doesn't serve the truth, at this point.
He still comes closer than Fox News, but Keith all too often allows his political angle to cloud and confuse his coverage. I find myself watching Keith's show more for infotainment, nowadays, than education.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #75
89. He does serve the truth. He hasn't changed.
Perhaps you have, however.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #89
137. Okie-doke. n/t
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #89
229. Good one, Berry :=)
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #75
90. Other than KO, who do you watch for 'education'?
:eyes:
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #90
136. No one, really. Though Amy Goodman's DemocracyNOW can be productive
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 03:31 PM by krkaufman
or BBC World News. A lot of different sources need to be hit, really, to get a decent idea of what's actually going on.

(I still watch Keith, but his show tends to have a low info/minute ratio. He covers so few stories over the course of an hour, with the last one or two segments often going off on some pop culture tangent.)
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #136
184. I get my information from the web, unfiltered and I can take as long as I need
to decipher the truth. Other than KO and The Daily Show, my TV stays on Discovery channel or ScFi.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #184
233. Excellent call. n/t
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #75
192. So watch Faux, if you think Olbermann is so twisted. Or CNN.
You are wrong though.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #192
234. That makes perfect sense. Olbermann's not perfectly objective ...
... so I should watch even more twisted coverage. Recommendation noted.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
176. How much does Keith make vs. Tim?
How much "access" to special deals? What sort of perks were they both afforded? Who got special privileges or deals? Special guest slots? Special appearances?

KO may be one of GE's products but I'm guessing he's their token attempt to maintain balance (one that's surprised even them with his popularity, I bet they hate that but $$ trumps firing him). And I bet KO isn't/wasn't nearly as well compensated on any level as Tim since there isn't the same level of obeisance to his masters that would be required to reach that pay scale .
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pennylane100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
17. You can mourn for as long as you want, that is not the point.
The public airwaves belong to all of us, and it is wrong for them to be used by the media to publicly mourn one of their own for as long they have.

Our troops see their friends killed in front of them all the time and they barely get a mention. What about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people who have been killed since we invaded their country. We are not allowed to see the death and destruction we have caused. Why should one death be more important and get more coverage, it does not make sense to me.




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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
93. MSNBC is not part of "the public airwaves."
It's a CABLE CHANNEL. You can't pick it up over the air. It doesn't "belong to the people."

Whatever the advertisers are OK with is what they will show. If the advertisers are OK with a Russert tribute, we have no say in it.

And if you honestly expect every person on this earth to get TV tribute time when they die...from Russert to a child who dies in Iraq...well, you're hoping for something that will never happen. I know when I die, I won't get a tribute on TV, but that's the way it is.

As for not being allowed to see the death and destruction we have caused, I see people posting pictures of it here every day on DU. Pictures of Iraqi civilians with various body parts blown off. Where's the censorship of that? I don't see any.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #93
134. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MindMatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
157. Nobody is even objecting to the mourning here anyway
I have not read every single post at DU on the subject, but I have read a bunch of them. The objections are generally of the mode that while there is no problem covering the untimely death of a public figure, when the coverage spends most of its time creating a fictional story about what a great journalist he was, then it is fair game to look at the whole body of work.

While I don't believe he was an ogre, and maybe not even intentionally biased in favor of the right wing establishment that employed him, the practical effect of his career was to enable the fascists to take and hold power, and to do so in plain sight. Their takeover used the "Big Lie" strategy that has worked for despotic regimes for centuries. The essence of Big Lie is that the worst acts will be accepted by the public if they are done in plain view because the public naturally assumes that anything done in plain view must be OK. In today's society where "news" is communicated at the speed of light, the Big Lie strategy depends on the media to present these despotic acts in plain view and with a tone of voice that suggests, "just move along citizen. Nothing to see here."

That was Russert's job, and he did it well.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. You sound like a really nice person, but....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

I think that in this context, "concern troll" means someone who makes up a straw man, like this idea of grave dancers and grave pissers, and gets everyone else all upset about it and gets a moral panic started.

And while you may feel that others are telling you how to mourn, other people feel like they are being told that they're not allowed to say that they didn't agree that he was fair and objective or that the coverage is a bit much when there's so much other stuff going on that's important to a lot more people.

This is just a mild suggestion so please don't feel like I'm telling you how to do anything, but if you can't take some opinions on DU using the hide thread and ignore user features can help.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
95. Ah, so now we have the concept of "moral panic" that we can use
to dismiss and file away the opinions of those we accuse of wanting to censor our own opinions.

I see. Those of us who are just disgusted by what we've seen are mere "concern trolls." Ah, I get it.

I'll remember this.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
21. I appreciate your post...
...and your opinion is valid and interesting.

I also agree that it can be a bit rough in here. However, I've always felt that
conversation on messageboards is a bit more rollicking than real life. People vent
a great deal online, and when you're anonymous--it's easier to unleash emotions
in a more irreverent way.

It's good, like you did, to get perspective from friends.

As far as Russert goes, I'm ignoring most of the commentary on here.

All I know is that I loved Russert on MTP. Sunday morning, my young kids know that mommy has
control of the remote--the only time that happens during the week. I watch "This Week", mainly
to kill time before MTP comes on. I'm there, with my coffee--and it's such a treat to watch
Russert and the full hour of MTP. He was tough on all interviewees. He raked everyone over the
coals.

I'll miss him. Sundays won't be the same in our house.

Thanks for your post.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. Thank you for your thoughtful reply
I think that talking to trusted friends face to face might be a good way to temper some of what I read here in DU.

There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread about how to digest information and sentiment from DU in a positive way.
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
23. OK. Now read: Scott Ritter's challenge to David Gregory
I first found the link to this here on DU, but it bears repeating for those who haven't read it yet. It's what the :banghead: responses to all the sap are all about.

Published on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 by TruthDig.com
Investigate This
by Scott Ritter

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/10/9537 /
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
24. I agree with you.
In any case, many are kidding themselves that if MSNBC wasn't paying tribute to Tim Russert then they would be doing news about the Iraq war or some other service to the nation. Instead they would be doing documentaries about pedophiles and prisoners in jail or murders.

For all that I love MSNBC, sometimes their programming sucks.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #24
77. well said. n/t
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nytemare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
159. I agree on the weekend coverage.
Late night, as well. It's either replays of "Dateline: To Catch a Predator" or any number of prison documentaries in endless re-runs.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
25. Question authority. Question sources. Think for yourself. eom
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
70. That has been my take-away message from the DU, too.
I just skip the dumb stuff and the really, really mean stuff.
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SoDesuKa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
27. When You Get Older
When you get older and a lot of people you know die, you won't grieve as much for somebody you don't even know. Over the past year I've lost friends, some of them close to me. Death is still a shock, but the unfairness doesn't leap out at me as it once did. One guy was planning a winter vacation with his wife and their friends, but just for caution he went for a checkup about a pain in his side. It was liver cancer and he was dead three months later. I still have some of his books that he lent me, and now I have nobody to return them to.

I don't even know Tim Russert, and I suspect you don't either. He's some guy on the television that for some reason you bonded with. It's fine with me that you mourn his loss as though he meant something to you personally. But I don't know why you are imposing your grief on me. Frankly I thought he passed up many opportunities to do a lot of good, but chose instead to be a wealthy celebrity. He made his choices, and you've made yours. Please respect my right to make my own choices regarding who I'll mourn for and who I won't. Tim Russert is very far down the list.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Maybe I wasn't clear
It's not about me, and it's certainly not about you. I'm really talking about people who suggest that NBC News/MSNBC is wrong to fill their airwaves with a tribute if they see fit to do so. I think that's disrespectful and mean. I know that many of you don't respect the mainstream media, but for all their imperfection, I do.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #27
97. Actually, the older I get, the less inclined I am to judge how other people mourn
or for how long.

I figure, I'm not them. Who am I to judge their pain?
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easttexaslefty Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #97
226. Exactly
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
28. Mr. Russert's death was saddening. I'm sure he will be missed...
for a very long time by a very large number of people. I will certainly miss him.

Take care, your heart and your thoughts are in the right place.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
30. adios
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
31. Great first Post!
Thank you for confirming my feelings. I posted much the same last night. Tim Russert will be sorely missed, by his family, co-workers and friends. I've always considered him a friend to those seeking the truth. I will miss him on Sunday mornings. Seeing his show was one of the only reasons I didn't "sleep in" on Sundays! I will be watching tomorrow morning to see how they try to fill the void. I really hope this won't be your last post, but I understand where you're coming from! :hug: DC
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Wow.
That was super mean.

Do you talk to people at your job like that? Holy crap.
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Sheets of Easter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #36
76. Probably not.
Notice the balls-to-body frame ratio grows exponentially once someone is propped in front of a computer...
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. I am astounded by your callouseness !!!
If I weren't worried about getting TS, I'd tell you what I really think of you. You sound like you have about as much HUMANITY as * does!! Shame on you.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #32
51. He mentioned YOU in the OP, and how right he was!
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:34 AM
Original message
Off to kick the cat and decapitate the neighbor's dog now?
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 08:35 AM by hlthe2b
Or does posting anonymous callous comments just give you a warm tingly feeling in your nether regions?

And, NO... with such a total intolerance towards others' opinions and seeming disdain for basic civility, it is arguably you who would be better off in the other party.
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Lifetimedem Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
58. How many people will grieve your passing?
n/t
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #32
68. Let me ask you something? Do you actually want every journalist on tv to be a water carrier for
the democrats? I dont think russert was a water carrier for anyone, by the way. Sometimes I think some DU'rs want everyone in the united states to be a democrat or a liberal or a progressive. For every journalist to lean left. There is a lot of "if you're not with us you're against us" here in terms of the nation and people in the public. The day we all think the same is the day we perish. I heard a clip over the weekend of russert explaining his interview style that he adopted from the man who started meet the press....it was to figure out whatever position the person had, and take the opposite view. I like that. Sure he missed some opportunities and I found myself yelling the question at the tv, but on the whole, he was pretty good at what he did.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
34. Amazing.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
40. personally, I don't know what the big deal is about Russert . . .
if his colleagues in the corporate media want to have an orgy of reflections and reminiscences, that's fine with me . . . since I don't watch television news or commentary, I haven't even noticed . . .

whether you generally agreed or disagreed with Russert, the right thing to do is to speak kindly of him on his passing and, well, let it pass . . . I don't understand people who use the occasion of someone's death as an opportunity to bash that person, no matter what his or her politics were . . . if folks on DU would spend half as much energy talking about real issues as they do about personalities, we'd be a lot better off . . .

RIP, Tim Russert . . . I didn't watch you, so I won't miss you, but I'm sure your family and friends will . . . and to them I offer my sincere condolances . . .
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. The point is that the whole nation would be a lot better off
if the MSM spent half as much energy talking about real issues as they do about personalities.
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SoDesuKa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. Doing the Right Thing
the right thing to do is to speak kindly of him on his passing

Tim Russert made his choices in life just as any of us do. Instead of being a real journalist, he pretended to be one by asking Gotcha questions. His act got old, especially when it came out that the Bush administration regarded him as their message guy.

Russert made piles of money by fitting in so well with the power establishment. He wouldn't have done that if he'd done even as little as stand up for Dan Rather. I won't miss Tim Russert, and I don't think his death is a loss. Of course you are welcome to your opinion of the man, and I will refrain from name-calling if we disagree.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
42. Well, I wish you wouldn't leave over this.
Believe me, there's a lot worse stuff you could leave over :)

I kind of stayed out of it after "breaking" the story in GD. It was a shock, the news of it that day was perfectly appropriate, especially at MSNBC. However. As we say in the northeast, "alright already".

Were it not for a 500-year flood in Iowa, more troop deaths and a massive jailbreak in Afghanistan, i wouldn't mind them interviewing the cleaning lady who used to clean Russert's office back in Buffalo waxing on about him in hour 27 of the nonstop coverage. If you get what I mean. i don't mean to sound callous, it's just that it is a news station and Russert has not been the only news over the last two days.

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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
43. Oh, WTF...
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 02:40 AM by Contrary1
Tim Russert was/is a good/bad human being to some...

Just like Pope John XXIII.
Just like Hitler.
Just like John Kennedy.
Just like the Dalai Lama.
Just like Bobby Knight.
Just like Ronald Reagan.
Just like Mahatma Gandhi.
Just like Jimmy Carter.
Just like Mother Teresa.
Just like Princess Diana.
Just like Dubya.

Just like whoever you want to add.

Just like you.
Just like me.

Let it be.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
46. Death of a Salesman
Certainly as tragic as any other, but no more and no less.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
47. I really liked your post
I think this place is making me mean.

How sweet and innocent you sound. I think the difference between you and maybe a few folks on here is that you actually HAVE friends in the real world who will look at you like you've lost your mind for spouting off some of the nonsense that occurs on DU so frequently.

There's an awful lot of good discussion around here, but when I come across some profanity-ladden stupidity (and there's plenty of that sometimes too), I just shake my head and say "that poor person. They obviously have no friends." Kind of the same thing I do when I see a woman in green eyeshadow or wearing a tube top 4 sizes too small.

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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
48. You do realize that the name "Big Russ" was created for the book.
Yeah---nobody ever called Russert's Dad Big Russ before the book came out.

Look--- you sound like a nice person....but God Damn it, do some reading on Russert. Do some reading on Gregory....just do some damn reading and get your head out of the sand. If that sounds mean----well----just call it tough love.

If you don't wake up and understand that these media hacks are a true danger to our society, then you're no better than the typical moran American.

Here's some reading material if you want to start removing your head from the sand:

http://www.google.com/custom?q=tim+russert&sa=Google+Se...
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hellbound-liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. Thanks for the link, trumad. I've never really explored the Daily Howler but now
it will be a regular stop. I, too, believe that the recent "hagiography" of Tim Russert is unwarranted and that the corporate media does represent a threat to our understanding of the world and our ability to make good decisions. As I see it, it is the responsibility of the media to transmit the news without injecting their own bias or slant. My own personal experience of Russert jumping the shark was when he moderated the debate between Hillary Clinton and Rick Lazio. His bias was clear in that debate and I haven't taken him seriously since. We all need to be more critical of the information that comes to us via the "idiot box" or the Internet regardless of who is presenting it.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #48
54. The Daily Howler?
Please. I read this stuff. It looks like over-analysis by a guy who just doesn't like Russert to me.

That link doesn't search the web, it searches The Daily Howler. Click on the link everyone, and see it.

You gotta be kidding with that link.

I've read the criticism about Russert. He wasn't perfect. He pissed me off too sometimes. My head is out of the sand, thank you.
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #54
79. The Daily Howler is
the godfather of progressive blogs. It was started in reaction to the insanity of the Clinton impeachment saga. It is probably the world's foremost source on the War on Gore in 2000 (in which Russert was a front-line participant).

Bob Somerby is intellectually honest. He does not practice the "shirts and skins" thinking of many left bloggers and almost all right wing bloggers. He calls it as he sees it, regardless of ideological advantage.

If you don't read the Daily Howler or Media Matters or the like, it is very difficult to be well informed IMO, because what we see on NBC and the other MSM outlets is primarily mythology (e.g. McCain is a "maverick"). They are constantly putting out crap like that. They lied about Gore on a daily basis and they have done hatchet jobs on every presidential cycle (this time it was Hillary). For example the disgusting performance of Russert and Brian Williams at the "get Hillary" debate in which the first 45 minutes were nothing but anti Hillary set-ups. Note: I did not support Hillary in the primaries-- I was just disgusted by the freak show that ended up talking about Mexican drivers licenses. Surreal journalism. That's what the MSM has devolved into. They have betrayed their country, humanity and the planet.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #79
98. The Daily Howler: A piece of shit, published by an asshole named Bob Somerby.
Somerby spends all his time hating on the MSM and tarring them with the brush of not doing what HE has done as a journalist. What a petty ass.

He does too practice "shirts and skins." He sees himself as being on the side of the truth and the rest of the media as a pack of liars, including Keith Olbermann. He devotes entire columns to trashing the likes of Olbermann for not being as noble and dedicated to the truth as him. And his pro-Hillary bias is so obvious it's ridiculous.

He's just another overblown blogger ego.

He gets NO respect from me.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #98
110. Thanks!
Thank you, BerryBush - that was really well said and exactly what I was thinking. It's all a big "I'm more progressive than you" pissing contest.
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #98
167. You misread him completely.
He has no pro-Hillary bias, as he has often stated. He simply has been pointing out the attacks of the media on the Clintons since 1998. I don't think he voted for her, although it was hard to tell where he finally came out in the primaries. He has at times even defended figures like McCain, for whom he has little respect as a politician.

Let's get to brass tacks-- do you believe there was a media War on Gore? Do you believe there has been a slant in favor of McCain since 2000? How do you see the media perfroming in the last 16 years?
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #167
201. I see a pro-Hillary bias, and a definite "no other journalist but me is worth shit" bias.
For Somerby, it's all about HIM and how great he is for saving America.

What I believe about Gore and McCain and the performance of the media is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

He asks rhetorical sentences every other sentence, and usually it's a variation of "Could (member of MSM) BE any more worthless?" That's because he thinks he's the only real journalist on the planet.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #201
212. You see nothing except for what you make up in your lazy mind.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #98
191. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
99. You're a fool---scratch that---an ignorant fool.
For you to dismiss Bob Somerby of the Daily Howler means you are a mental midget who really should go find another forum to display your ignorance.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #99
202. I believe you to be the ignorant fool here, not me.
And the mental midget, too. Somerby gets off on telling everyone how all other journalists suck, and how absolutely none of them are doing their jobs at all, other than his magnificent Self. I have no time for that shit.

If he could just stick to political reporting, he'd be fine, but no--he's got to leaven it with how none of the MSM are reporting it but him, him, HIM. And that's just an exaggeration. Every time someone comes along in the media and actually challenges the right wing conservative point of view, he feels threatened, so he has to rip them from stem to stern for not doing it properly, once again asserting his own supremacy.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #202
211. You have no time for his shit because you're lazy.
And that's the problem with half of Moran America.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #54
217. The Daily Howler..... I just peed my pants
Jesus this place is NUTS sometimes
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #48
56. Trumad, I don't think the OP is concerned with those who, like you,
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 08:58 AM by hlthe2b
point out (without obsessive vitriol)Russert's many failings.... That he sold out in order to serve his employers' agenda and as a result was among those influential members of the press that enabled this Administation is part of his ultimate record and legacy.

But some on DU are not able to argue the totality of his record nor to appreciate that Russert was neither Saint nor Satan. They have shown no compassion to either the man's family nor his viewer/admirers (however misinformed they might perceive them to be).

I think our focus must be on holding the feet of living journalists/media types to the fire and working for reform (return of Fairness Doctrine and anti-trust regulation as a start), rather than beating this "dead horse" (no pun intended) forever. Agonizing over Russert's many failings, now that he is so recently dead, seems not only unseemly for many, but misdirected, since the hyperbole and anger ultimately becomes attached to those DUers who merely disagree.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #56
101. Hitler died and we're still talking about him...
Am I comparing Russert to Hitler? Hell no.... I'm comparing deeds that were done while the living kicked around in life. Russerts deeds in my mind were disastrous.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #56
114. That's it
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 02:01 PM by XtraProudDem
You got it. Russert wasn't perfect, but he cared and he was professional. And a nice human being to boot. He made A LOT of mistakes, and missed a lot of opportunities. But - he also did Meet The Press hundreds of times and got it right, making a lot of crappy, unprepared politicians very nervous. He deserves credit for that.
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SparkyMac Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
49. Great post ! I'm surprised you weren't "toombstoned".
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
53. Well said EPD....you give me hope.
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Lifetimedem Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
57. Being from Buffalo myself
I know the pain this city is feeling at the loss of someone most of us only knew via TV, so surely his co workers, people he had taught and mentored and encouraged.

I have no doubt that Tim would have labeled himself a Democrat as would 70% of the people of Buffalo (the most Democratic city in the country), but he was a journalist...not a commentator or editorialist . It was his job to ask the questions and to be a fair moderator. The fact he did just that is shown in the fact that conservatives think he was liberal and liberals think he was conservative.

May God bless these grieving people

Thank you for your post
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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
59. thank you for your post
i agree and i don't understand why people can't just turn off their televisions and go outside to enjoy the summer day. why spend so much time and energy on-line putting down people who are mourning a co-worker and friend's passing?

however, i wish you would stick around b/c i'm likely to leave too if this place is left with only the types of posts that are taking up the majority of the greatest threads lately. well, today is lovely - best to enjoy it outside away from the computer anyway. maybe there will be more enticing threads later...
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
60. "he did everything he could to remain objective and neutral."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!1111

Acting as Cheney's mouthpiece was a strange way of trying to be neutral.

Educate yourself or be foolish.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
61. My co-worker did collapse and die
And we were all on TV too. For that matter. We were in our early 20's. Just like that, one of the healthiest living people I have ever known. Also one of the most thoughtful and kind.
You ask how we'd feel if that happened to us. It did happen to me and my friends. We were basically kids. So to be honest, your question and your grandstanding strike me exactly as the long drawn out 'tributes' to Russert strike me. Over the top and exploitative.
Exploitative to the point of bringing up the deaths of other good people and asking us how we felt then, about people we really knew, over a celebrity whom you did not know. Your sorrow is somehow equivent? For a celebrity? As mine for my friend? Death is just to be used by others as debate fodder and a booster seat for your high horse?

I think you are more wrong and exploitative than those who are happy to see Timmy gone. At least they are honest.
Oh, you may note I did not tell you how I felt when my friend dropped dead in the workplace. That is because it is not your business. Use your imagination. How do you think it felt?
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #61
116. Answer me this...
Have you been posting about how the MSNBC tributes are uncalled for? Have you been saying it's a good thing that Russert is dead?

No?

Then I wasn't talking to you.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
62. Headline: "Bush, Cheney, remember Russert fondly" ----That says it all.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #62
194. And that makes Russert's life meaningless?
How easily the primrose path becomes littered with thorns.
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
63. Good on you.
All of your observations are spot on.

All of them.


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Unbowed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
64. Thank you.
An adult post on this subject. How refreshing.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
65. I will accuse you of being uninformed
Here - watch Moyers (a truly GREAT journalist) had Russert his ass on a platter over his reports in the lead up to the war:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #65
117. I love Moyers
Moyers is a great journalist, it could be argued that he's a better journalist than Russert was. That's not my point.

A few days from now might be a better time to keep making the same old accusations about Russert.

How about we let the body get into the ground first.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
67. Thank you so much for your thoughtful post.
A thousand recs from me, if I could give them.

Please don't be a stranger - post more often.
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
69. This was an excellent, reasonable, post and I thank you for it. Would love to read you more.
:hi:
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
71. The Reaction to Russert's Death Highlights Everything That's Wrong With Modern TV Journalism
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 11:18 AM by Crisco
Most of them aren't journalists at all - they're media stars.

How many of these media stars knew that the Bush administration were lying us into the Iraq war and said nothing?

Those who knew they were repeating propaganda kept their personal feelings on hold and reported what GE, Mickey, and Viacom wanted them to. All except Phil Donohue, who spoke the truth and had his show get canceled in spite of good ratings, and has since been replaced by a self-important anti-O'Reilly.

Now that one of their midst has passed away after returning from his Italy vacation, it's suddenly, perhaps for the first time in TV history, deemed appropriate for media stars, alleged journalists, to talk about their feelings.

How can you not see what's fucked up about this?
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #71
118. I can see one thing
Apparently you think Keith Olbermann is nothing but "a self-important anti-O'Reilly."

I can see what's fucked up about THAT.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. You're Free to Have That Opinion
But it's a safe bet that Olbermann will rarely, if ever, boldly go where GE fears to tread. Olbermann's a "place holder," there to cater to the anti-Bush crowd, but if the day ever comes where he does in-depth reporting and debate on, say, the farm bill and patent-holders attempting to control our food supply and the profits that come with it, I'll be shocked.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #120
123. So...
"Mr. Bush, you are a bald faced liar!" is not bold enough for you?

You know that Bush is a sitting president and that GE/NBC/MSNBC/Universal is corporate media, right?

Olbermann is plenty bold.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #71
119. Also...
I forgot to mention that I admire Phil Donohue greatly, and I did not want to see his show cancelled.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
73. Part of it is the very nature of anonymity: anonymity can make timid souls brave, crude, & vile.
Not that it necessarily does so, but it can. That's not a DU thing: it's an internet thing. And nowhere is this more apparent than when someone of renown dies.

Much of this grave-pissing/dancing, no, strike that, most of this grave-pissing/dancing has absolutely *ZERO* to do with Tim Russert's politics, interview style, whether he was too rough with liberals and too soft with conservatives, etc., etc.

No, what it really has to do with a good number of the folks posting these type of callous things is simply resentment & envy: resentment that they themselves will never have a position such as the one Russert had, a position from which to shape and mold the structure of the national debate; envy that when they die their obit will, at most, make the small print on page B12 of their hometown newspaper (if that), while here is this guy Russert with most of the national media eulogizing him for days.

It is quite pitiful and sad in that petty sort of way of childish human beings, but it is also interesting to watch as an academic exercise.

Excellent OP - K & R. :thumbsup:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
78. Your final paragraph is VERY poignant.
And is unfortunately a truism that has had many people take breaks or leave permanently.

Best wishes to you in the future. :pals:

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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
80. What has made us all mean is the dire situation of the country and the insane zealotry of our foes.
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 12:07 PM by tom_paine
Have you ever heard of the Parable of the Tribes? No, it's not biblical, it's philosophical. To try to be brief: Let's say ten hypothetical tribes inhabit a hypotheticall isolaed river valley ringed by massive mountains. Nine of the tribes are peaceful but one is warlike and cruel.

Had all 10 been peaceful there would be a peaceful status quo. If one, only ONE of the tribes turned mean an warlike, attacking, robbing, and exploiting all their neighbors, then ALL of the rest of the Tribes, ALL of them, would have to get "more mean", create defense forces and patrols, learn how to fight and kill if necessary, etc.

All of that wasted and unproductive efforts in fighting like bugs in a bottle, across all 100% of the society, all caused by the 10% of the society that is naturally and joyously MEAN.


Think about it as is relates to this topic. I completely understand and sympathize with your post. These are hard times to be an Aware American. This hardening is not a desirable change, but it is necessary, and I think the Parable of the Tribes very succintly says why.

Of course Gregory is just a guy trying to do his job, and so is Russert, and so is Ann Coulter for that matter.

The Question here is did he do his job, a job so very very VERY important to the safety and security of our Republic, an informed as educated public aware of facts with a minimum of spin (as is humanly possible, people being people.

And yes, being in a kinder gentler Inverted Totalitarianism (see my 3rd siglink for a reasoned discussion of our current form of governance, if you wish) and sort of being the One-Eyed man in the Kingdom of the Blind, to use a hackneyed cliche that is nevertheless relevant, DOES makes one meaner, there can be no doubt about it. And it does make one look insane to the Blind (at least about this aspect of life) for being able to peer through the curtain of the National Hologram of Media Saturation to which none of us is immune...me, you anyone.

It's like that in any totalitarian nation, I think, from what I have read and people who came from totalitarian countries (working in science is like working in the UN...it's very diverse and interesting - I have worked in companies where more than the worlds people were represented).

Even our creepy Mr. Rogers Friendly Facsism Bushie-Traquilized and Neutralized version, called Inverted Totalitarianism.

That is not to say I am happy with the state of affairs, nor would I have wished it for the world. We do not embrace the zealotry like the Freepers, most of us DUers (I think), but we have found because they have used their ultra-aggreesive rule-shattering concord-shattering Nazi-like propaganda machine with amazing success because of their relentless zealotry, then WE must become zealous to defend the freedom and the nation we love.

"Ambition will be made to counteract ambition," said Madison, long ago.

Well, Authoritarian Zealotry and it's programmed followers MUST be counteracted with Libertarian Zealotry (and I mean that in a Founding Fathers way, NOT the current Bushified Ayn Rand bullshit definition) or the Bushies and McBush will continue to take us down this dark path.

But most of us do not embrace the mad zealotry, like most of the Bushies and Freepers, though. Not because we like it or are blindly follwoing or are becoming rich by doing it (quite the contrary, it is probably shortening lives through stress, as the American Revolution must have, too) but becuase we believe in the Founding Fathers and we won't give it up without a fight (I am not speaking of violence, God Forbid) here.

But thank you anyway for this post. It quite eloquently states your side. I just happen to disagree. The professional is not the personal.

I hope you will give my post consideration as I have given yours.

If you would like to hear my side more fully, please look at this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #80
121. Excellent response
Thanks, tom_paine, for a very thought provoking post. I'm nowhere near ready to reply, but I'll be thinking about what you said very carefully. Thanks for putting in the time to respond.

I'd like all of our media figures to be better at what they do. I'm just not going to hate all of them for falling short. Just a few of them. :)

I saw the thread that you linked to, enjoyed it and commented on it. I stick with my opinion of "Integrity is for paupers" being a joke. I just don't buy that Russert was serious when he said that. A lot of folks will disagree with me on that, but I stand by it.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
81. so long--glad you enjoyed your stay here
or not--

It takes a different sort to live Underground. Braver, less conformist. More open to ideas others reject without thinking.

Sorry you didn't fit in. I know you tried.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. Fortunately not everybody here is rude n/t
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. Fortunately, some are--But not everybody can take that sort of honesty. I wish the OP well
and never said otherwise.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #92
220. Honesty? Please
You HONESTLY sound like someone who loves to say rude and obnoxious things to make yourself feel more powerful.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #81
219. Puh-lease
I swear, some of you sound like those nut jobs who think the Rapture is coming.
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
82. Good post......... I certainly agree with a lot of what you posted....
DU sure has it's share of mean-spirited and hate filled people. It really can be a cesspool at times. I've seen long time DU posters celebrate the death of innocent citizens merely because they lived in a "red" state....they sound like such good progressive people...such an asset to the Democratic party....and to humanity.
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LBJDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
83. So let me get this straight
"My friend looked at me like I had lost my mind. Then later that evening I watched David Gregory on television, talking about what his friend Tim meant to him, while fighting back tears. There's nothing wrong with David Gregory - he's just a guy trying to do his job - much like you or me. My friend is right - sometimes I do act like I've lost my mind. I think this place is making me mean."

David Gregory is a good journalist because he cries about Tim Russert? I don't know who David Gregory, but you're saying you were wrong about David Gregory's biases simply because he cried? Am I missing something here?
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #83
109. It's very simplistic "thinking"
It would be nice if people would go read tom paine's VERY informative thread. There is much to be learned.

But sadly some have been so assimilated ("Amusing Ourselves to Death", and all that), or are just willfully ignorant, and will continue to keep their eyes tightly closed and their heads in the sand.

A rational person (rational coming from the same root as "reason", ie "higher mental faculties", not just emotion), noticing that many people here on DU hold an opinion counter to their own about the media and various media celebrities, and that these people are actually linking to *transcripts* and other *documented evidence*, might think "Gee, there seem to be many people (and even many *Democrats*, and Democrats who follow politics and the media very closely, if not obsessively) who think quite a bit differently about this issue or this person. Maybe they've read or seen something that I haven't. Perhaps I should go read some of this stuff, and try to figure out why they feel so strongly."

that would be a rational response... Then the follow-up reading and learning would require some effort and some critical thinking skills.


tom paine and others here are very good and patient teachers, and very good writers. Much can be gained from listening to them. DU (and other websites) can be a very good place to acquire MUCH knowledge. It can also be a place to do some emoting (which is not always a bad thing, but should be balanced out by some learning).

This is a very dangerous time in our republic. Knowledge is power. The people in control WANT the public to be "assimilated" and remain stupid. We must fight against this.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #83
124. You oversimplified.
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 02:32 PM by XtraProudDem
I didn't mean to suggest that Gregory is my favorite media guy at all. I was just trying to say that he's human, and he'll probably get better at what he does. There's no reason for me to hate him.
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LBJDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #124
140. You do realize that lots of evil people are human, too, right?
Even the worst tyrants cry at some point. What the hell does that prove?
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #140
145. Please...
We're talking about a TV news guy here, not "evil people."

Overdramatic much?
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MindMatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #145
177. We are talking about a corporate enterprise built to empower people who are doing some evil things
Let's go to first principles. Whom does the free press serve? Whom is is supposed to serve?

May I refer you to the very first amendment to our constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." OK, that amendment doesn't specifically identify "The people" as the ones who are supposed to have a free press as opposed to the corporations being the ones controlling the press. For that you need to refer to the first seven words in the Constitution proper, "We the People of the United States ..."

Anybody who thinks the system Russert so exemplified is serving the people is not paying very much attention.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #145
221. Overdramatic Much is all over this place....
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
84. Rarely have I seen so many inaccuracies, half-truths and outright lies packed into one post.
Congratulations, now you can go back to your buddies and talk about what you got away with here.



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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. No kidding. My bullshit detector hit redline the first read through.
:puke:
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #84
96. Hear, hear!
Sounds like it came from the latest DLC talking points memo.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #96
128. DLC?
It's so easy for some of you to start shouting "DLC!!! DLC!!" every time you read a post you don't like.

And very predictable and tiresome.

Have you ever even seen a "DLC talking points memo?"

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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #128
222. ha ha ha- good one!!!!
And so true. That DLC talking points bullshit is embarassing... but they keep at it!
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #84
125. "What I got away with?"
What on Earth does THAT mean?
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
86. Thanks for a thoughtful post
And to the holier than thou posters throwing mud on Russert and the OP, may I suggest an honest and metaphorical look in the mirror? You may be able to see some of your own imperfections and be less likely to throw stones. Russert was not perfect. Nobody is. He was also probably a decent human being. And in the media, better than most. Should we care about his passing more than the millions of equally or worse tragic occurrences that happen each and every single day? Objectively, no. But most people are not objective. He was a public figure, with everything that this implies, whether you like it or not. I will miss his election coverage, enthusiastic and smart, and I just could not make myself turn on MTP this morning.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
88. K&R, with my thanks.
I hope you don't leave. DU needs more people like you.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
91. We have been angry for so long...
that I think, for some of us, our anger has taken us over and hardened our hearts. For others, I'm convinced, anger is a perpetual, personal state, only partially related to politics and the state of the world.

I know that I have almost dismissed people completely who have fallen for the GOP-Bush brand of evil. That was easy when I lived exclusively in a Blue world. Recently that changed for part of the time, and I have been the object of extraordinary kindnesses from some folks who voted for Bush -- indeed, a few who still support him. I accept them now not only as human beings, but as friends.

We are such a small, insular world here at DU. If Tim Russert's faults as a journalist are clear to us here, to the rest of the world he is a good man, a personable man in their living room, and not evil. IMO, we cannot lose sight of this wider world, especially the wider country we live in. It is the world, and the country, we have. I do not see Tim Russert as evil. I see him as a guy who did his best as he saw it. He could have done much worse, even in our little lefty corner of the world.

I wish you would stay, XtraProudDem. We need the voices of people tuned to, and accepting of, a wider world. We need the voices of people not jaded by hatred.

I have been a consistent contributor here for some years. It got me through the darkest days, along with family and friends "on our side." But during the primary season just past, I not only cut back on my participation, confining it to some obscure forums, but almost left. I could not believe the vile comments directed to fellow DUers and to fellow Democrats. I was here in '04, and, from my perspective, there was nothing during that campaign like what I saw here in the past months.

In the end, the sane and sensible posts from Skinner, at key points, kept me here. Knowing that the guy in charge had no hatred in his heart and played no favorites, and would not allow DU to be officially a place where only some Democrats were welcome, enabled me to weather the storm.

You will always have some support with a post such as the one you've just posted -- maybe not a majority, but some. And there is a wealth of information here, and also wisdom and wit, and even great kindness, along with what you (and I) often find objectionable.

As for Tim Russert's death: When it happened I resisted reading posts here for a very long time. I know what happens here when any public figure not deemed perfect dies, and it's ugly. I was, in fact, surprised, when I started reading, how many here were not using the occasion to vilify the man, or even focus on his shortcomings. I'll admit that when I think of him, his showing the Bush pin on the underside of his lapel to Jack Welch comes to mind. But half our country voted for Bush in 2000. And Tim Russert was ambitious, and wanted the rewards that came to him -- but then so are some of my nearest and dearest.

We try to make the world better, but, ultimately, we live in the world, and country, as it is on this day. Filling it with hatred of our own doesn't seem to me personally a helpful thing.

Thanks for your post, XtraProudDem.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #91
104. Good post DMM
In regards to Russert, I have some issues with him and his reporting, but I think at times we disagree with everyone, and he was an interesting and provocative reporter on television.

What I do have problems with is the non stop public wake that MSNBC decided to air, pre empting all other news, as I pay for cable and felt they were being beholden and paying homage only to themselves (in a not so flattering, wildly excessive, self reverential fashion) and not to their audience or their customers.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. Thanks, ruggerson! I haven't dipped into the dialogue about the coverage...
but will take a look.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #91
129. Thank you
It's means a lot to me that you responded to my post, DeepModem Mom. I've read and enjoyed many of your contributions to DU over the years.

I regret including a "threat" to leave DU as part of my OP. It was childish, and the post would have been more meaningful without it.

I intend to stay around, as I have learned a great deal from those who have responded.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
94. DU is not the end all to life
Too many people take this place too seriously and you are one. Or you came here to make a point and you've made it. Either get a life or get a life.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
105. Your concern is noted.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #105
130. Ahh...there it is...
The "concern troll" accusation.

I knew it was coming.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
106. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #106
147. Wow!
I was "ignored" for this post?

Seems like an over-reaction, but okay...whatever.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
111. "...this place is making me mean" - only if you let it
You are responsible for what you say and how you feel, noone else. If it helps I agree with your OP, but that's really not the point. In a discussion forum people will discuss - and how boring it would be if everyone felt exactly the same way. I actually love the fact that we're all dems here because at least we have common ground (you see true "hate" when the real trolls show up), but it challenges my own thoughts when I read other opinions and I like that.

I hope you stay.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
112. I don't mind the tribute despite my frustration with the so called media.
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 01:56 PM by mmonk
He still was basically a decent man and human being.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
113. you could have just linked to a video
"leave Tim Russert alone. :cry: :cry: He's a human being."

So your friend thought you were crazy because of something you read on DU. That's what happens when you are better informed. 'The fool on the hill sees the sun going down, but the eyes in his head see the world spinning round'. Sometimes I think we are not mean enough to the Russerts and Gregorys. They get rich promoting people and policies which are not kind to many people. That maim and kill people. God forbid we say something bad about them.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #113
127. I agree and we should keep this in mind re Matthews . . .
a "liberal" who was also like Russert evidently offered the golden ring to buy

into the ideal that "Principles are for paupers" --- ???

Evidently, there are some posting here at DU who actually thought that Russert
was "unbiased" and a "Democrat" --- !!!


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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #127
131. I guess he WAS a democrat, working for Moynihan
and Matthews has been anti-war for a while now. Probably Russert looks like the voice of reason compared with Scarborough, Hume, O'Reilly, etc. Just like Maureen Dowd started lampooning the "Boy King" and people even on DU had forgotten, or never knew, what she did to help elect the Boy King. It's probably hard not to sell out when somebody throws a million dollars at you. Even I might say "screw the working class, I've got mine." At some point though, I wonder if I wouldn't become more like Soros. Give me a couple million and I would feel like I had enough money to risk getting fired since I am set for life.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #131
149. Well . . .
I think you'd find many question what kind of a Democrat Moynihan was --- DINO?

Well, congratulations to Matthews if he's now anti-war --- but did he aid and assist the
cause of Bush's wars in the first place?

Granted as ALL the reporting gets pulled to the RIGHT --- which is what has happened ---
you may get a little confused about where the center is and who's on the left or right of it.
They moved the goalposts!!!

Also I'm happy to hear that Russert "wasn't as bad as" ---
I still think we deserve better ---

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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #127
138. there are *many* here at DU in that category.
absolutely mindboggling...

if you haven't seen this thread, it's a great antidote to all the stoopidness:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

and there a few other new good threads today as well.

:hi:

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #138
150. Yes . . . pleased to see that one . . .
thank you --

:)
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
122. You're 100% Right, Are Obviously Mentally Mature, And I Have The World Of Respect For You.
To post that in the way you did and to acknowledge your wrongs in regards to your friends is definitely worthy of praise. I'm proud of you, and hope you stick around. We need more like you here.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
126. The first point is that this is the PUBLIC's airwaves . . .
to be used for our benefit not for celebrities to mourn personal friends/colleagues--

The second would be that it's shocking enough that anyone is watching NBC/GE or MTP -

but for so few to understand how this event is just more celebrity/infotainment is

also very sad ---

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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #126
133. MSNBC, not "public airwaves" n/t
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
135. OP is just another oblique slam against DU. The technique is total &^(#6%

DU is not cause of anyone ranting and babbling without depth of understanding and conviction.

Tears in David Gregory's eyes are not proper counterpoint to criticism of his journalism, particularly with respect to e.g. events leading up to and during the Iraq war, and other critical issues. Criticism of the journalism/reportage of someone in the MSM, esp. when put in greater context of the overall media narrative of the media outlet they represent, is NOT identical to attack on their person - and a response appealing 100% to emotion is inappropriate, dismissable.


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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
139. Thanks for the post, sorry you're leaving
I didn't like MTP , therefore I don't miss Russert. He was allright I guess, but more fair to the GOP. I've been avoiding NBC's Russert orgy, I hope you don't mind.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
141. DU is just a subset of society.
Just because we are liberals doesn't mean we're all sugar and spice. Some are more compassionate than others, and FWIW some feel completely justified in their lack of empathy over Tim's death. I liked Russert for the most part, though some of his shows angered me. I thought he was the best of the commentators that did not cater to the left... such as Olbermann... I ADORE KO, but lets face it, he's squarely on our side. Tim, whether you agree with him or not was much less biased than many in the MSM. I think his political leanings have shifted over time, and his shows reflected that at times, but how many of us could have done his show and been 100% unbiased at all times?

Anyway, I am sorry you feel like you have to leave. I agree with you on some points, but I also understand that I don't have to like the beliefs, feelings, or behavior of fellow Democrats all the time. We're all different, after all.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
142. kick and recommend.
This OP is repeating things I've said and others have said, but much better.
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marew Donating Member (854 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
143. While I respect Russert very much...
Enough is enough. Heroes die every day. But the world still spins, there is still a war, the sun comes up, people in this country who have experienced complete devastation are trying to put their lives back together, etc. Yes it is a tragedy but I would never think of pushing my personal tragedies down everyone else's throats for two solid days. This prolonged protracted deification of Tim Russert is much too much. What inflated egos there news people have thinking they are the center of the universe.
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ribrepin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
144. Good post
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 04:17 PM by ribrepin
The thing that really got to me was a post that said "I piss on his grave". Not that someone posted it...there are many jerks on DU. The moderators didn't remove it for many hours. They were busy locking threads favorable toward Mr. Russert because they were flame-fests, but "I piss on his grave" seemed to be thought to be a good thread for DU. They finally removed it and thombstoned the poster, but it was many hours later.

I've been here since 2001 and sometimes DU was my saving grace in the dark days of Bush, but it has definitely changed. I'm not sure this is the place for me anymore.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
146. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #146
161. The irony of your screen name is exceeded
only by your ridiculous generalizations....
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #161
197. I've seen this stuff ALL before. It's nothing new. Sorry if the truth hurts.
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 12:41 AM by TheGoldenRule
p.s. What the HELL does my user name have to do with anything?! Who exactly have I hurt or killed by my actions?! I'll tell you: NO ONE!
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eek MD Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #146
166. FYI - there are democrats here that don't post regularly...
(and many who also donate) Perhaps it means we have a life off of the computer. I'd consider that to be a good thing. God knows I'd hate to spend 20 hours a day coddled up with my modem ranting at people that I've never met about what I assume their political affiliations to be. :)

Have a nice day!
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #166
198. I said what I said because I've seen freepers post stuff like this many times before. nt
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
151. Nothing wrong with David Gregory?!?!?
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 04:59 PM by stlsaxman
sorry but you're either too kind, blind or stupid.

and from reading your first OP you are NOT either of the last two!

David Gaggory is as big a hack as Gloria Bwhoreger, Mara Lyinassbitch, George Stenographallus OR even Tim Russert for that matter.

Russert: "Oh, I think the Republican National Committee does a fantastic job with research. They send me stuff all the time and it's always dead on."- that's not Journalism by ANY stretch of the imagination. that's a hack.

too bad you're "leaving DU". i've enjoyed some of your posts.

:hi: - buh bye
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
152. "It was his job to be unbiased.
Those who think he was a "GOP water carrier" are delusional."

My guess is that most of the outrage to the non-stop Russert coverage is not due to the amount of coverage, but to the constant gushing over what a great "journalist" they thought he was. I don't have a problem with NBC and MSNBC mourning their loss, but to portray Russert as a journalist, let alone a great journalist, is nauseating.

Please don't accuse people of being delusional for seeing Russert for what he really was. Evidence of this is all over DU and is quite nicely compiled in tom_paine's magnificent thread linked above.
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Dirigo Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
153. YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT X-TRA PROUD DEM

Don't take yourself so seriously. You're an x-tra proud dem just as I am. As dems we love the thrust and perry of the blogesphere. Character assassinations are far worse on Freepers.com and the countless other worthless Reich Wing sites. Gregory it appears may be well suited to take Russerts place. I think he's ready for prime time. Stay proud and stay Democratic no matter what your friends think or what any of us write about others who profess to be democratic. They are all individual points of view and opinions. Like belly buttons we all have one. Like you I feel sorry for Russert and his family. I am also a proud democrat and my wife is a republican but we both saw Russert the same way. Neither one of us saw him as a giant journalist, rather we saw him as a lucky boy from Buffalo. And thats from two divergent points of view. I don't think your nuts just because you read DU or Aantares.com or other great democratic sites.
Here's KOS article on Gregory
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/4/183326/849
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
154. This is one of those posts that objects to being told how to post
while telling people how to post.

And as far as Gregory and Olbermann are concerned, they are right to mourn their friend. However, Russert wasn't my friend. I'm under no obligation to share their feelings.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #154
172. I gotta admit you have a point here...
Thanks for the comment.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
155. Thank you for a wonderful post.
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 05:47 PM by pirhana
Even tho he had his faults, I was a huge fan of Russerts.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #155
160. "hugh fan"?
are you goofing on us here?

oh. wait. I see you're one of the "If he pissed you off, that just means that he was doing his job" camp.




oy. :banghead: :banghead:
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #160
162. Thank you for pointing out my typo - it wasn't intentional - but -
why does it piss you off if I liked Russert?
And more important, why would you even care?

Or are you one of the "everyone needs to needs to think exactly as I do" camp?

maybe you better keep one of these around
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #162
163. no, not at all -- just one highly in favor of being informed and being a member of the reality-
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 06:01 PM by kath
based community. THAT'S a camp more people need to join.

Inform yourself:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

oh, and not in favor of the "I love to spout logical fallacies" group -- example "If a "journalist" pisses off both sides, that means he was doing a good job, or that he was fair and balanced"

look up "logical fallacy"
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #163
174. We've all seen these two threads
They are both very well written and informative.

But, all I keep hearing over and over again is that Russert said a couple of bad things, one of them he said when he WASN'T on television:

"The RNC does a fantastic job with research..."
"Integrity is for paupers!"

It's just not enough for me. I get that he missed many opportunities to nail BushCo to the wall. So did many other journalists. That pisses me off, too.

But I have never, NEVER understood why Russert is so villified on this site.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #174
190. A couple of bad things?
I see after countless threads loaded with examples that you still have your head in the sand.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #190
206. I keep seeing those same two quotes
So why is that? Do you have anything else?

Oh yeah - also, some guy saw him with a Bush button pinned to the INSIDE of his lapel. Convenient - we'll never see a photo of Russert wearing one - he wore it on the INSIDE!

Actually, MAYBE some guy saw that. We think.
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
156. I had a friend/coworker who died tragically...
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 05:43 PM by Lost-in-FL
one evening. She was brilliant, a great worker and made everyone laugh with her great personality. She was also the kind of friend who you could look up to and was also a proud veteran. She was only 38 years of age so I know how it is to mourn a dear friend who died tragically and unnecessarily but we moved on. We all worked in a hospital so we don't have the luxury of time to just look at each other and talk about her death because we had a commitment to our patients. We were very sad and we talked about this person for weeks over lunch and during our breaks, we cried a lot for her and her family because it touched us very deeply. We even planted a tree on her name, created a fund to help her family and even named a section of our work place on her name.

What I am trying to say is that what is going on in the airways now is beyond mourning and is becoming a show. I hope I am not telling you how to mourn but I hope you get the point that life must go on. I think they are using his death so people forget how badly their coverage is, how their commitment to others has become a commitment to the powerful. The media is a failure and they are showing it with Tim's death.

I have done two things this weekend, avoid Russert posts (this one made it to the front page for some strange reason) and I am not watching news on cable TV. I used to get all worked up over how mean people seemed here but I realized that it is not worth it. I still see a lot of great people here. If you look for bad you will find it but you will also find the good too.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
158. Thank you for the excellent post
Please don't run away. You should post more often -- you obviously are a reasonable person and we could use as many of those as we can get around here sometimes. Don't lump all DUers together -- not all of us act like the ones you're referring to. It's like any community -- it's made up of all kinds of people.
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
164. I understand where you're coming from
And agree with much of what you said. Hope you'll stick around. We need more reasonable voices around here. :hi:
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
169. SHHH!
don't you know people want to label him akin to a faux news 'obama's baby mama' type journalist!

LOL...

oh the extremists on a site with a bunch of liberals - how funny they can be when they hysterically attack a middle of the road guy who was the head of the political news at one of the big 3 traditional networks...

thanks for a great OP.


NEW OBAMA ITEMS WEEKLY & MCSAME!
www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
171. A big K&R to your first post
I can't believe some of the poo flying around DU the past few days.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
173. My worst day here was when Bob Hope died....it was awful...I left for awhile
I also know what you mean about discovering it can make you mean and argumentative. Hope you find your way back in better times.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #173
175. I remember that!
Man, it was ugly in here for a few days.

Thanks for the support. I'm going to stick around.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #175
179. It makes one wonder what attacks will come next...
As much as we loved and respect our departed DUers like Kephra and Andy and so many others, I cringe at the thought we have unleashed a pattern of attack on the "recently departed."

It seems some think it their duty to detail every mistatement or wrong committed, as though ANY of us could pass that threshold. Hell, if I had friends and colleagues go out of their way to recognize even one small good thing I might have done, I would be thrilled... That so many thought so very highly of Russert has to say SOMETHING. And to me, it says our unidimensional view is not a fair one.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #173
181. I remember well and it was devastating because...
it brought up a torrent of memories of the loss of my own parents--both who absolutely adored Bob Hope, independent of his political views (which I doubt they even knew).

That so many focused on one small aspect of a man who had done so very much good in such a long and well-lived life.... I was just amazed and appalled. The pattern began and has since been often repeated.. It makes me very sad.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #173
223. The worst days here are the times anyone dies
Because the fucking loonies go in to full swing with their bullshit.

Ronald Reagan? Check

Gerald Ford? Check

Bob Hope? Check


I know there are literally TONS of other examples but those are what come to mind.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
178. Excellent post!
I could not have in any way said it better myself.

David Gregory would be an excellent replacement. He has been a huge thorn in the Bushies side as part of the press corp for quite some time now.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
180. I think this is the same dilemma the founding fathers struggled with.
This is a microcosm of course, but the essential turmoil is how to allow as much freedom as possible without letting a loud mob mentality dominate the community.

The more rules you make, by definition the more people you exclude. The less rules, the more susceptible your community is to irresponsible elements. You can't really legislate morality, as we have learned over and over. You have to CONVINCE your community to believe.

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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
182. When did you decide...
...that we alll as a group thought that it was appropriate to tell you or anyone else how to mourn?

I've only read one of your posts, and so far it's been anything but nice knowing you.

Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya...
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #182
185. It's just a DU post, dude
It wasn't about you, so don't take it so personally.

And you don't know me.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #185
224. I know you well enough.
You're a crybaby. You want sympathy. You want to insult everyone you can and still leave yourself some wiggle room so that you can say to anyone that feels insulted, "Hey, I wasn't talking about you, man."

Yeah, I know you well enough. Now, make good on your threat and go away.
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
183. "imagine one of their co-workers collapsing on the job from a fatal heart attack........"
Where I work, we don't lie to millions and enable a war that will continue for decades.

But that's just my office. Maybe others have different situations in theirs.
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disunderestimated Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
186. I don't post much....
...but I felt strongly enough about this to comment: What a lot of self-indulgent nonsense.
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ClusterFreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
188. I agree wholeheartedly.
It seems to me that the least people can do is let the poor man be buried before assailing him as a hack or a republican enabler, etc. All of which he may very well have been. But nothing can change the fact that he just died. A couple days ago. Whether or not MSMBC has gone completely into overkill mode in their marathon coverage of Russert's death is irrelevant. (And by the way, I think they totally have). He's dead. He died. He didn't survive the heart attack. He isn't recovering...he didn't give the thumbs up on the gurney out of the NBC building...he collapsed and he died. In a week, a month, whatever...I'd be happy to sit here and critique the shit out of his performance on MTP and elsewhere. But for now, he just died and his family and friends are beside themselves with grief. Let's let them have that. It's the least we can do.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
189. Please realize this:
There are many of us here who agree with you wholeheartedly. The crap on this site at times is mind blowing.

Just don't cut down the forest for a few bad weeds. I am just as sick as you but I won't let them win. Please reconsider leaving. We need more of your humanity on DU, not less.
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XtraProudDem Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #189
193. Thanks...
I've decided to stick around.

And Obama/Richardson sounds like a good idea to me, too. :)
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #193
235. I'm glad you are...
...staying. My post earlier today:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I am dismayed by some of the DU response to Tim Russert's death. My thoughts:

It's about HUMANITY. Bill Clinton had a good line about how, as a people, we always have things that divide us. But our strength as a country will be when we realize that our common humanity matters more.

There are times to fight, and issues to fight about that are most justified and necessary for our country. Death or serious illness of another person...be they male or female, of any race or religion, Democrat or Republican, etc... is a time when our common humanity should win the day. That shows our strength as a people. It's also how we win...whether it's an election, the war on 'terror', or our common future.

Some on DU have shown a tremendous lack of EMPATHY...for Tim Russert and his family and for his NBC and MSNBC family who are obviously mourning. On the issues (time spent, public airwaves, biased media) I always have and still do agree with many here. But this is not the time. Where is your humanity? Where is the EMPATHY?



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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
195. Thanks for your post
I was having similar thoughts and you verbalized it so well. The excessive meanness is getting to be a real turnoff here.

Glad to hear you're going to hang around!
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Daemonaquila Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
196. Meh
Russert isn't worth the angst on either side. He's getting the attention because he's a political media celeb, sadly one as meek and weak at pursuing the truth as the rest of the corporate media drones even if he was more skilled than some. Giving him all the extra air time is a sad joke, but in the end we get to change the channel.

As for grave dancing, that's a fact of life. Whether it's a niece cheering at pervy uncle Bob's stroke or half a nation shooting off fireworks when Shrub finally succeeds at choking on a pretzel three days before leaving office, angry people will celebrate. If it bothers you, ignore.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #196
225. "it's a fact of life"?
The excuse of tyrants and unsavory characters throughout history.

Resistance is futile. Don't bother to try to make things better- we suck and that's all there is to it.
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RNdaSilva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
199. RIP Tim...
You were humane, a good person and a good father. I shall miss you, particularly come election day.

John and Robert Kennedy are enjoying your visit and begging to be interviewed.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #199
210. Snarf...
So now he's in heaven or some imaginary place?
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
200. for some people the tv replaces the caveman's fire
gives them feeling of warmth and light

timmy's big orange head comforted them like glowing log did the caveman

that's all they want to know

"Oogah,big warm orange glow feel good,oogah."
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #200
203. And of course, you're FAR superior to all those cavemen
and can sleep well at night knowing how superior you are.

Yeah.
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #203
214. What was that?Ooga ooga?
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
204. We are at war. There are major assaults on our Constitution and way of life.


I am sorry Mr. Russert died at such a young age. May he rest in peace, and bless his family.

However, I believe we are engaged in a war. A war to reestablish our freedoms and way of life. George Bush once said that one was either for him or against him. I am against him. Mr. Russert was for him. He did little or nothing to expose the tremendous attacks on our Constitution and way of life. He was part of the problem not the solution. He was not a true journalist. He mite occasionally ask a tough question but when the republican gave a bullshit answer, he would fail to follow up. To me fake journalist like him are far more damaging than Bill O'reilly. With Bill you know you are getting bs, but Mr. Russert passed off well as a journalist.

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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
205. People tend to speak their minds when they have the cloak of anonymity
Russert was a decent person and I feel horrible for his wife, kids, and father that he will leave behind. That said he's one of the many so-called journalists that contribute to the irresponsible corporate media we have today. Yes David Gregory isn't a particularly great journalist either. And while I enjoy watching Keith Olbermann's show, he's not a great journalist either.
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Snarkturian Clone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
213. You're right, dude/ma'am.
Duer's make me puke sometimes with their self-righteous bullshi grave-dancing :puke:
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
227. It's not news.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
231. Thank you for this post...
...and your thoughts on Tim Russert. I hope you will stay around and help DU become a better DU. :)
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
232. Good
I guess I won't have to use the "ignore" feature.
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