I feel HORRIBLE for Tim and his family. Just don't call him objective...

[Nightjock]

I truly feel heartbroken for Tim Russert and his family.
Ten years ago my dad died of a heart attack at the young age of 52 ... right after he bought a home in Florida where he would retire in 3 months. I know the horrible shock to family and friends and I have already said a prayer in support of a good, talented, man whose life ended way too quickly.

But please in remembering Tim don't pretend he was objective.
From the book True Lies here is an an excerpt about the 2000 (s)election.

"At one point in the evening, Gore explains, Russert approached the candidates. As Gore was closest to him, Russert respectfully shook his hand and then moved on to Bush. Thinking that Gore had turned away, Russert shook Bush’s hand and, mischievously, turned over his jacket lapel to reveal a Bush campaign pin hidden under the fold."


Warning. This is a harsh article from two years ago. I wasn't even going to post this until I saw multiple "he was such a objective reporter" lines here.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Time%20for%20change/31

[PeaceNikki]

1. Is it really that important that you prove your point on the day he died?

:shrug:

[Taverner]

10. Exactly

Not good to speak ill of the dead at least until some time has passed

[screembloodymurder]

29. My condolences to the family

but let's not pretend he was on our side.

[Gabi Hayes]

46. tell me, to the minute, when it becomes appropriate.

[leftofthedial]

58. Okay, I'll give him until . . .

. . . 9:35 Eastern Time.

Is that enough time?

[Eric J in MN]

53. Now is the time when we're discussing him.

It may seem harsh to write anything negative about a celebrity right after he died, but the good and the bad belongs in the discussion when it's happening, which is now.

[Happyhippychick]

2. Are we really going to stomp on the man's grave? He DIED - who cares if he votes republican???

[leftofthedial]

59. I don't think the OP cares that he voted repuke

he cared that otherwise seemingly sane DUers seem to think Russert was an objective journalist, which is so far from the truth that someone needed to say something.

[AlCzervik]

3. zomg i don't think anyone is, christ people he just died, can this stuff wait for like 12 hours?

[Mountainman]

4. I don't feel he was objective at all. Especially evil toward Gore.

I stopped watching anything he was on because of it.

[blondeatlast]

5. Give it time, please. Good journalists always piss someone off and I think he did on both sides.

Just a little respect, please.

[kath]

9. "good journalist"? He died fairly young, but doing so doesn't make him something that he wasn't in

life.

Journalism is pretty much dead in this country. What we've got is the Corporate Propaganda Ministry, aka McPravda. Thank Jeebus for the blogosphere.

[bluestateguy]

31. That's a good point

I got very angry at Amy Goodman (who is worshipped by DU) when she grilled Bill Clinton on an Election Day interview in 2000. But I still think she is an outstanding journalist.

[Warpy]

6. I'm not going to call him anything right now.

My sympathies to his friends and family. It's horrible to lose someone suddenly.

[kath]

7. Thank you. He died too young, but that doesn't make him "objective" OR a "journalist"

This concept that we're supposed to think that everyone becomes a saint at the moment of death is really bizarre.

[FiveGoodMen]

23. Agreed. You were what you were and when you die there's no chance left to change it.

How many people died today at age 58? Don't know the number, but it's probably a lot. What makes this guy so special?

[kath]

45. exactly - nothing makes him so special. This bizarre concept that anything that happens to a

"celebrity" is a brazillion times more important than things that happen to everyone else is mind-boggling. and disheartening. and makes people seem really stoopid. Like sheep. or lemmings. :banghead: :banghead:

[malaise]

8. I joined DU several years ago because of posters like you

Truth always comes first.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Selatius]

25. That's a cop-out, and you know it.

Tim Russert may be a lot of things, but just because you dangle his family in front of people doesn't mean the truth can be suspended. If you can't feel for someone's family after someone dies without recognizing the truth of that person's actions, then you truly are lost both for your sake and the sake of that family. I was unimpressed when they rewrote Reagan's history to make him appear bigger, and I will remain unimpressed when people will do it with Tim Russert.

By no means do I glorify his death, nor would I tolerate anyone who accuses me of doing so, but let the truth be said that a lot of people died in the sands of Iraq, and those people had families as well. Russert isn't the only person to blame for the media failing to ask questions in the run-up to the 2003 invasion, but he was one of many who didn't ask truly hard-hitting questions when they needed to be asked because the lives of so many depended on them.

If people are saying Tim Russert was objective, I've got 4000+ American grave plots to sell them and over a million Iraqi plots.

If a person dies, give him the honor of the truth and nothing but the god-honest truth both what he did for Iraq and for what he did for Fitzgerald's investigation. Don't paste over his record with dishonorable aggrandizing.

[Benhurst]

38. Thank you.

[malaise]

56. Great post n/t

[calimary]

61. Indeed.

Condolences to his family.

GEEZ - Olbermann just started the "Countdown" show (sort of), and he looks TERRIBLE!!! As though he's spent a LOT of time back in the back, seriously choked up.

[AZ Criminal JD]

62. What a petty post. A true loser.

[Mabus]

17. Same here

The truth is important and should not be forgot.

[Benhurst]

40. Thank you.

[Kolesar]

19. Is a journalist-poseur worse than an upfront right wing mouthpiece?

"Today's essay question, class"

[kath]

54. fantastic post, TBA!

wish we could recommend individual posts.
If you don't mind, I've quoted it in some other threads - with proper attribution, of course.

[Kolesar]

72. "This post, too"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3445868&mesg_id=3446344

[LittleClarkie]

60. I heard it said once that a KKK member in a sheet is better than one in a suit

At least you know where you stand with the one in the sheet.

A poseur is worse than an upfront mouthpiece.

[librechik]

24. I'll never forget his testimony under oath that he was always off the record

with the truly powerful. In other words the default with Tim was to keep their secrets and stiff the public.

Whatever he was once, Tim had lost his way as a journalist, and acted more like a subsidiary White House flack. He was tough--especially on wayward liberals who threatened the military indistrial complex, his boss.

I'm sorry he died so young, and I have sympathy for his family--they must be crushed.

May he rest in peace

[tom_paine]

33. Damn straight. n/t

[tom_paine]

34. Duplicate. Self-delete.

[Benhurst]

37. Thank you.

[jberryhill]

12. Also worked for Moynihan and Cuomo

In 1976, he worked on the Senate campaign of Daniel Patrick Moynihan, D-N.Y., and in 1982, he worked on Mario Cuomo’s campaign for governor of New York.

Daniel Moynihan is one of my all time favorites.

[KG]

13. he was mouthpiece with an agenda. he wasn't really even a 'journalist' anymore.

[Benhurst]

44. If he met the standard for what passes for a journalist around Democratic Underground,

we're in worse trouble than I thought.

[bluestateguy]

14. I'm sorry, but that little tall tale just sounds, well, um, let's see FALSE

That's one of those little anecdotes that's just a little too "perfect".

[kath]

68. Are you calling the OP a liar?

or are you calling Al Gore a liar, since he's the one who related the incident to the author of the book being quoted?

[Selatius]

15. Nobody worth their fucking shit would claim he was objective, and shame on anyone who does.

The man is dead. Let him have his peace from false lies that he was objective.

[jefferson_dem]

16. That's both wrong and wrong.

Posts like this make me ashamed of DU.

[City Lights]

18. Your timing sucks. Bigtime.

Tacky post. :thumbsdown:

[Mabus]

20. Amen

It has been real hard not to say what I really think. You've said (part of) what I've been thinking and you've done it more politely than I can.

K&R

[jillan]

21. Is this really necessary - today?

[Gabi Hayes]

47. when does it become acceptable?

a day?

a month?

a year?

long enough for all the encomia to blur the reality of his function as a cog in the GE/MIC/Intel wheel?

it's NOT going to be mentioned in the M$M that he was CHOSEN by Cheney's gang as the TOP OPTION in getting the word out, because "we control the message a little bit more"

Remember Cathie Martin's testimony at the Libby trial?
Martin replaced Mary Matalin in Cheney's office


As Martin rated their options, putting Cheney on "Meet the Press," NBC's Sunday morning talk show, "is our best format." Cheney was their best person for the show and "we control the message a little bit more," according to Martin.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/0...



Top levels of the Bush administration decided that CIA Director George Tenet would issue a statement taking the blame for allowing Bush to mention the Niger story. Cheney and Libby worried Tenet would not go far enough to distance the vice president from the affair.


Libby asked Martin to map a media strategy in case Tenet fell short.


A Harvard law school graduate, Martin had succeeded legendary Republican operative Mary Matalin as Cheney's political and public affairs assistant. Matalin had brought Martin to Cheney's office as her deputy and trained her.


Martin offered these options in order:


Put Cheney on "Meet the Press."


Leak an exclusive version to a selected reporter or the weekly news magazines.


Have national security adviser Condoleezza Rice or Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld hold a news conference.


_Persuade a third party or columnist to write an opinion piece that would appear in newspapers on the page opposite the editorials.

[AirmensMom]

22. I can't believe

you feel the need to post this so soon after his death. And I can't believe there are 5 DUers who think it's worthy of the Greatest Page. :puke:

[Kolesar]

26. He'll never have the chance to write write that novel, the one about the fearless reporter ...

... who stands up to the administration. You know -- fiction.

[Mabus]

27. LOL

That's it. That's exactly it.

[librechik]

28. Maybe Colbert could take his place

there couldn't be that much justice.

[apocalypsehow]

30. Oh, he was as objective as it's possible to be alright, and what biases he showed were to the left.

What *YOU* mean when you say he wasn't "objective" is: "he didn't agree with me 100% of the time on every possible subject under the sun, and didn't talk about issues that were important to me and me only every single time he went on TV."

And I don't buy a word from your "article," either, BTW.

[OzarkDem]

35. You must be new to Democratic politics

If you had paid close attention the last dozen years or so, you would understand the OP's sentiments.

[apocalypsehow]

39. You must be new to the English language - try reading my reply again. This time have your tutor on

hand to lend assistance.

[Gabi Hayes]

48. biases were toward the left??????

please, try breathing oxygen for awhile

perhaps your senses will return

and call us when you get back from the Oort Cloud

here's just ONE example that might affect your delusional thinking:

Top levels of the Bush administration decided that CIA Director George Tenet would issue a statement taking the blame for allowing Bush to mention the Niger story. Cheney and Libby worried Tenet would not go far enough to distance the vice president from the affair.


Libby asked {Cathie} Martin to map a media strategy in case Tenet fell short.


A Harvard law school graduate, Martin had succeeded legendary Republican operative Mary Matalin as Cheney's political and public affairs assistant. Matalin had brought Martin to Cheney's office as her deputy and trained her.


Martin offered these options in order:


_Put Cheney on "Meet the Press."


_Leak an exclusive version to a selected reporter or the weekly news magazines.


_Have national security adviser Condoleezza Rice or Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld hold a news conference.


_Persuade a third party or columnist to write an opinion piece that would appear in newspapers on the page opposite the editorials.......


......As Martin rated their options, ''putting Cheney on "Meet the Press," NBC's Sunday morning talk show, "is our best format." Cheney was their best person for the show and "we control the message a little bit more," according to Martin.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/01/27/national/w093216S19.DTL&hw=

this is from Libby's TRIAL. you can choose to believe it, or not. have fun, though, in your alternate universe

[Kolesar]

51. thanks for the newspaper link

Did Cheney go on MTP w/ Russert? I lost track

[Kolesar]

49. You mind yourself...eom

[OzarkDem]

50. Evidence based politics

I can't seem to recall any evidence in the last dozen years or so to indicate Russert was "left leaning".

Can you provide some concrete examples?

[Kickin_Donkey]

32. I don't get the canonization of this MSM TV personality ...

He was a shill for General Electric and Jack Welch. Good riddance.

For those who want to blubber all over themselves about Russert's passing, there are plenty of other threads for that.

[democrat2thecore]

36. "Good riddance"????? You need a heart. Love the masses - but hate the individuals you don't like?

[Runcible Spoon]

42. how do you get "hate" from "good riddance"?

I didn't cry when Reagan died either. Did you? Do you have some sort of political purity test for who gets your tears? My test is whether or not i KNEW them and CARED about them.
My grandpa was a really hardcore conservative but a gentle man. I cried for days when he died. I felt "good riddance" when Reagan died and with Russert, I feel "huh, sucks for his family".

[democrat2thecore]

43. Whatever -nt

[krkaufman]

64. "Good riddance" goes a bit far for me

... but there will be much sad irony over the next week(s) as media personalities grieve over the loss of their coworker and colleague, to a degree not shown for the thousands of US, Iraqi and other casualties for which they are all partly responsible.

[laststeamtrain]

41. K & R. One of the finest GE employees ev-ah. n/t

[Downtown Hound]

52. Amen

I remember an interview he did with Laura Bush on the hardships of sending American troops to war. It was the phoniest, most dishonest piece of journalism one could think of. Russert gave her softball questions and let her lie through her teeth. When it was all over he said, "Thank you for a very uplifting conversation." Yeah, don't we all feel better now? Laura finds it difficult to send young men to their deaths because of her husband's lies. Boy, that's inspiring. It was even more pathetic than much of the stuff I've seen on Fox.

I hold Tim Russert in the same vein that I do every other media whore that lied us into this war. Now if bringing these kinds of things up means I'm pissing on the man's grave, then so be it. He died. Too young by most people's standards. Ain't that a bitch? Sorry it happened and all that, but I didn't kill him. And I still remember his phony reporting that contributed to the deaths of hundreds of thousands. So the last thing in the world I really feel like doing now is mourning. But at the same time, I don't feel like dancing either. The only thing I really feel is the longing for some real journalists to take over the American media. Russert wasn't one of those.

[spanone]

55. i think on the day he dies, we shouldn't call him anything

[hiaasenrocks]

57. You (and the authors of that book) are not interested in objectivity anyway.

That's obvious from the silly journal entry you posted. Essentially it advocates for treating others with no objectivity.

Russert did a fine job and your journal shows that you have very little understanding of how journalism works. You prefer advocacy.

Not that you care, but your ridiculous and unfounded attacks on the day of his death warrant the rare ignore. Buh-bye. :hi:

[krkaufman]

63. A couple excerpts from Tim Russert's career ...

One an excerpt of Russert from Bill Moyers' "Buying the War" program, from a segment prefacing Bill Moyers discussing with Walter Pincus what happened to objective journalism ....

YouTube video: Bill Moyers Journal | Buying the War | End of Objectivity (30sec)

So, I take issue with the Reagan-like deification and praise that will be heaped upon Tim Russert's *professional*, "journalistic" legacy, but that doesn't take anything away from Russert the human, husband, father or son. I do not question his love of his family, his coworkers, country or humanity.

But Russert also left me with hope, hope that maybe someone will take heed of what he said during last week's MSNBC coverage of the final night of Democratic primaries, in this excerpt from the transcript...

RUSSERT: I just wanted to make one quick comment because I have been thinking a lot about the speeches we heard and what presidential elections can mean to a country. Everybody has hopes and dreams and aspirations about how we see our country and how we see our world. And I do think that John McCain and Barack Obama are really going to paint very different pictures. We saw the beginning of that tonight. And it's going to be really extraordinary for us as a country, as a people, to have this chance to listen to this. And when I heard Obama begin to talk in these patriotic themes about how he envisioned the country and the world, I automatically called up John McCain saying, we always have to be conscious and aware of something beyond ourselves, something more important than ourselves. We have two very idealistic men. We have two very patriotic men. But we have men with very, very different senses of what our country should be in the surrounding world. And if we can have an election with huge differences on big issues, it will be so important for our country and our democracy and it can really add even more to this already historic election.

Here's hoping we can have an election -- and election coverage -- of which this Tim Russert would be proud.

[RevolutionToday]

65. Pretty Pathetic that Russert is being given zombie journo-cred from so-called liberals

He was horrible to your side and you can't see it? Really? I know that liberalism is what passes for the left here, but you all should at least be able to see when someone spits in your face every week on that silly 'gotcha' show with the stupid name.

[davidpdx]

66. More dancing on the graves of the dead

by the OP as well as several other people in this thread. It's disgusting and sad.

[kath]

69. what's sad is so that many here lack the critical thinking skills required to realize

that criticizing someone who has died does NOT equal "grave dancing". And sad that many think that dying means you should be elevated to sainthood, facts be damned.

It's also sad that so few are aware of the damage inflicted on our country (and the world) by the US Corporate Media.

[MisterP]

67. DUers did it for Bill Buckley, they'll do it for Ollie f*ing North

actual facts will be called the deepest shame and embarrassment, and they'll accuse anyone repeating them of costing us elections, etc., etc.

[Honeycombe8]

70. He was impartial. Haven't we learned our lesson about the silliness of lapel pins? nt

[Eurobabe]

71. I feel

sorry for his family, but the man should have gone for regular physicals. He looked like a tick ready to pop.

Makes the case for early detection and screening for heart problems. :shrug:

[MiniMe]

73. He did. If you didn't see the interview on MSNBC with his physician, you should

He had high blood pressure, but it was well controlled with medication. They knew he had coronary artery disase, but again, it was well controlled with medication. That is per Russert's physician.

The cause of death was not a heart attack, it was a blood clot or a thrombosis. Russert had just returned from Italy the day before. Flying on a long flight can cause a blood clot if you don't get up and move around enough during the flight. It happens, and most times it is out of the blue.

Your post is simply wrong.

[Eurobabe]

75. Oh geez

:eyes:

You're a jerk too.

[MiniMe]

74. He used to work for Moynihan, dem from NY

The right wing thinks he is a flaming liberal, some on DU think that he was a neocon. His political views may have changed over the years, but I think he tried to be objective. Whether he succeeded or not may be another story. The man simply loved politics.

You are entitled to your views.