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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:11 PM
Original message
Impeachment hearings would destroy the Republicans
Imagine, day after day of congressional committees splashing BushCo's crimes all over the media, with nobody but furious fat RW ideologues trying desperately to cover it up. They would look SO BAD!!!

Any Democrat who doesn't demand this justice from our Congress, which is constitutionally obliged to do this anyway, is cravenly hiding his head in the sand. If we don't stop them now, howsoon will they slither back into power? 4 years? Eight?

We can never hold a position on the world stage as long as we don't hold these monsters accountable. We will be nothing more than a third world country with a broken constitution and justice system, ruled by the rich and powerful instead of the people.

Waste of time? With 60% or so of us in favor of impeachment if they are guilty, what massive resistance will they run into? They point to how unpopular the Clinton impeachment was. OF COURSE AN UNJUSTIFIED IMPEACHMENT WAS UNPOPULAR. WE ARE NOT STUPID!!

The people are CLAMORING for a JUST AND DESERVED IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION.

How on earth could investigative hearings hurt the Democrats?

Naturally, Obama and others should recuse themselves from the proceedings. But this has nothing to do with the Presidential election. Except it would make the Republicans look very very bad, and the Democrats, for the first time, look like they are doing their jobs.

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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree 100% with this.
Americans are tired of the war and the death and destruction.

We're tired of hearing about the lousy Republican economy, loss of jobs, and the constant terra terra terra drums beating.

We're tired of big government, high gas prices, huge oil company profits, unlimited funding for war but nothing for our kids, our infrastructure, or anything else that might actually benefit us.

I think a daily does of GOP crimes aired in public would be the death knell to the GOP, and do they ever deserve it!
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debunkthelies Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. DITTO
:bounce:
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iamahaingttta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. The problem with your rant is this line:
"We will be nothing more than a third world country with a broken constitution and justice system, ruled by the rich and powerful instead of the people."

That's exactly what they want. That is why the Corporate Media is not mentioning the articles of impeachment, and why they won't televise hearings the way they did with Nixon.

Also:

"How on earth could investigative hearings hurt the Democrats?"

Hearings would show their complicity.

When the Watergate hearings were televised, I was in the 6th grade. I went home for lunch everyday, and watched them with my Mom. Often, I would go back to school late or not at all, always with a note from Mom saying "Please excuse IAMAHAINGTTTA for being late, we were watching the Watergate hearings." My teacher was thrilled by this and gave me extra credit for explaining what was happening to the rest of the class. I kept watching after school let out, in between swimming lessons and stickball games. This was my early introduction to politics.

The Corporate Media will do ANYTHING it possibly can from keeping another generation of kids from having their introduction to politics being Bush impeachment hearings...
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. so we should lie down and let it happen instead of fighting?
Do I have to say WE WON'T GET ANOTHER CHANCE AT THIS?

Man up and get them out of there!
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Damn right...
...I was going through the old episodes on the wiki and found this gem:

Hope has 2 kids: Anger at the way things are, and Courage to make them better.
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iamahaingttta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. Of course... I should have added...
...that I'm all for impeachment, even if he is not convicted by the Senate. If nothing else, it's important to get the crimes documented. It's just the the Repubs, many of the Dems and the Corporate Media are going to focus away from it for reasons of power. There's a lot of calculus involved....
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. yes, we need to take it step by step so we are not overwhelmed
first we need to hold hearings. As the facts come out the way will become clear, and the calculi.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yep those lying sacks of POOP are not much in the way of an information orgy
I have to use the google and the internet to find articles in Indian newspapers, and English and Irish newspapers, to let me know what our Corporate Media won't tell me.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. Yeah, hearings would expose their complicity,
but a lot of 'em could--and WOULD!--turn "state's witness." And maybe those witnesses wouldn't all be Democrats either.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. Two reasons I disagree . . .
First, Who's watching corporate-media?

I would guess only those who have little problem with what's going in America -- ??

And, as far as I know, their ratings have been constantly dropping --- shockingly so ---


Second, C-span would cover the hearings --- and possibly PBS ---


HOWEVER ... except for the fact that most predictions -- even by the GOP --- are for
a large Democratic Party win --- at this point, I think we have waited too long and
it could be looked at as a political impeachment ---

What say you to that?




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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. THIRD . . . we can see how little the Dem investigations have accomplished . . .
Edited on Thu Jun-12-08 08:52 PM by defendandprotect
YES . . . they have produced information of guilt ---
but no one has been brought to justice --
in fact, they haven't succeeded in all this time in getting any Bush official
to respond to a subpeona -- !!!

18 months to show us this???

And, I love Waxman, Conyers, etal ---


In other words, THEY waited so long that I now have to say "the clock has run out" . . . maybe?




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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
67. The clock has not run out. W can be impeached in ONE DAY. He already confessed on TV!
He admitted on Nat'l TV that he approved the illegal wiretaps.
That's a felony and it's a violation of the Constitution.

Open and shut case. The Perp already confessed, and you want
to let him walk?


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #67
78. One day . . . vs how many days have they been investigating other crimes . . . ???
When did they begin investigating the "unjustified" upsurge in gasoline prices --- ???

I'm with you -- I'd love to see a successful impeachment ---

especially since there's no guarantee they're leaving ---

And . . . Cheney may set the entire White House on fire before he leaves ---

and the rest of his s--- out on the law to burn???

But, again -- show me one investigation where they've succeeded in bringing ANYONE in this

administration to accountability --- ????

In fact, ENRON blew away like ashes, didn't it --- ???


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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #36
66. Political Impeachment?
Huh? What's political about removing a guy who's just about
to end his term anyway?

The impeachment can be shown to be a matter of the restoration of
democratic and constitutional principles, and re-adherence to
the rule of law.

There's nothing political about it.

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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Logical flawless. The republicans won't get it, but this is exactly
what it would be.

The corporate corruption in our government needs to be purged now.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #66
79. There wouldn't be anything "political" about it --- except to save the nation
and the Constitution . . .

what I am saying is simply that it could be an excuse the corporate-press and GOP propaganda

machines could use ---

Do the Democrats want a small win or a large win --- dirty tricks?

Come on ---

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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
100. The pukkkes will call anything we do political. Would I call off the search for my lost child
if I were pregnant with another that would be born in November?

Would I fail to prosecute the murderer of my child becasue I have three more unharmed at home and the murderer will soon leave the neighborhood?

If Bush's crimes were of the "stole postage" variety, or even the "stole millions" variety, I might be less zealous and just let them go. War crimes and mass murder (not to mention the looting of the treasury for the enrichment of his friends) are the kind of crimes that all Americans will pay the penalty for in international hatred. Unless we show GRAPHICALLY we don't go along with it. Just letting them go and someone else be elected doesn't do that, IMO.
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
56. The other problem with that line...
...that's already what we are.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #56
80. Agree . . we're expecting the same Democrats who helped Bush destroy the
Constitution/Bill of Rights to help us restore them --- ???

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
77. "Third World America" . ..? We're pretty much there . . . our infrastructure is failing . . .
our National Guard is busy fighting hot wars ---

and Global Warming is closing in on us ---

Patriarchy, organized patriarchal religions -- and capitalism --- unless heavily regulated ---

are SUICIDAL concepts --- !!!!


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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes it would, so let the hearings begin
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. We should impeach Cheney first
otherwise if we impeach Bush Cheney will declare martial law. I'm not for impeaching Bush first.

Impeach Cheney First!
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I don't think we would get that far, so I don't fear Cheney
but we need to have those hearings. Cheney's crimes would instantly surface, along with the dauphin's.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
81. A lot of the Cheney/Bush crimes are also hooked into the Pentagon/Intelligence MIIC . . .
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 01:38 PM by defendandprotect
we're far from being able to pull the rug out from under that alliance ---

And I don't see Pelosi or Reid ready to stand up against it --- does anyone???

Ike didn't know how to pull the rug out from other that alliance ---

and he left us with the problem ---

In fact, I think we could say that the murdered JFK to keep him from dealing with the problem.

The Joint Chiefs to some degree had to have been involved at that point -- and that was 1963!!!!


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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. What librechik said K R & Fuckin A right
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sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. There is a presidential election every four years.
Keep your eyes on the prize. Impeachment is a feel-good exercise in self defeat.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. for the majority here
holding criminals accountable for numerous heinous crimes is a prize. think of it as an exercise in bravery and doing the right thing.
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sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You seem to think it helps the Dems in November. No a thousand times no.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. as a matter of fact i do think it will help
who the hell in their right mind would vote for any republican when the current is being impeached..

it would only help the dems in every way.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. how?
do explain
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. It exposes the crooks and their crimes of course.
This actually helps BOTH parties as the crooks get weeded out. (How can that be anything but GREAT for our very democracy?-The ol' 'enlightened electorate' thing) Helping the dems is another matter but it paints the republicans into the corner of having to defend failed policies, granted, policies that were hijacked by crooks, but that is not OUR problem now is it. I have utterly NO problem with weeding out the corruption from our government...having a D or an R next to the crooks' names has no bearing on my feelings in this matter.

Democracy truly is the best form of governance, we are recognized as the chief example of democracy on our planet. If we manage to PUBLICLY weed out the majority of the crooks, ESPECIALLY those the world can plainly see, then we will have demonstrated that American democracy deserves her place in the world as the chief example of what a democracy should and could be like! We will have gone from being the government controlled people masquerading as a democracy to the We The People-representative-government which is limited by her strong constitution. We will also be considered the benevolent armed nation as opposed to being that thieving, highly armed, belligerent bully nation that we've become under bush. (Anotherwords our very presence will give dictators pause!)

To me these are the good things we reap from impeachment.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. yes indeed
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
84. I agree with your reasoning and I'm rooting for impeachment . . . however . . .
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 02:08 PM by defendandprotect
NOTICE the work the Dems have done on investigations since they took office ---
Yes, they've produced some evidence so SOME of this is on the record ---

ENRON is blown away to ashes ---

The administration refuses to produce witnesses --- and 18 months after the Dems came into

office, what individuals have they succeeded in holding accountable???

The only progress was made by Fitzpatrick and when he passed the ball to the Congress ....

they simply stared at it --- didn't they?


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. PS: Anyone see anyone investigating the phony/corrupt Drug War????
No -- because none of these people are equipped, ready, insane enough to begin to deal with
MAFIA like influences entangled with our government elites who use them --- !!!!


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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Yes, a thousand times YES!!!!
How could it NOT help the Dems?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
83. I agree . . . otherwise, we're saying, "don't worry the criminals are leaving in a short while" . .?
What sense does that make ---

PLUS, who comes in and what restraints are on them---???

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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Impeachment is the remedy for high crimes.
Elections will not address those, though it might give us a new leader.

I don't feel comfortable letting a mass murderer get away with all his crimes. It's a separate issue from elections.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
41. And they've stolen those elections in 2000, 2002, 2004.....
And though we "won" in 2006, it has meant absolutely nothing.

I'm ready for that thang called *Truth*, and let the chips fall. We've won nothing if we have Dems in office who continue in their complicity with the Repubs.

The carrot has not worked to shape up the Congress, Dems and Repubs alike. Impeachment is the stick, used to get the truth out about *every* member of Congress, and where they stand on the issue of the Constitution.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
87. They've been stealing elections with computer counting . . .
since the hit on JFK --- mid-1960's . . .

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

They weren't going to that much trouble to take over government and then have the public

shove them out of the White House --- were they?

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

The computer counters began coming in during the 1960's . . .
the PRESS and those covering elections began to understand what
was happening --- in a way complicit.

Two journalists began investigating these elections --

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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #87
107. "They weren't going to that much trouble..."
That is the elephant in the room for me. I'll vote for Obama (though he wasn't my first choice, nor was Hillary), but I cannot shake the thought that those who have done violence to the Constitution, have crafted new laws to save their own asses and seen them passed by the Dems, who have followed every page in every playbook known to man with regard to creating a fascist state -- though a "soft" one for the moment -- are going to just say "It was nice" and walk away with a tip of the hat to a new Democratic administration. They've been planning this party for a long time. They've ordered the cake and the Champagne, and they have all the decorations in hand. Why would they just give it all up?

Oh, Canada, why can't we be more like you? Why can't we just have a transparent hand count, which can be accomplished in a couple of days, and actually have a honest election? These computerized elections are designed to distract We, the Gullible into thinking that we're actually being listened to.

And *if* Obama is really sincere in his assertion that he'll review every signing statement and every law passed by the Bush administration, to determine its constitutionality, I greatly fear for him -- and for us, by association.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #107
108. Agree with you . . . sadly . . .
I hope you perused the VOTESCAM website . . .
everyone should understand what was happening there ---
and try to pass the info on ---
thinking that 2000 was the beginning of the steals is a mistake.
We have to understand how long this has been going on ---
2000 was simply the NOISIEST ---

I'm also a Kucinich/Edwards supporter --- and/or Green Party --- but will vote for Obama
unless anything too shocking happens.
I think the party is probably too co-opted to save, but I'm trying!!!

I'm with you in your thinking ---
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #108
110. Haven't followed those links yet, but will. Busy, busy right now! nt
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
68. Impeachment is a necessary remedy to trampling of the Constitution
If the remedy is not employed, the Constitution stays trampled forever.


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
82. Yes . . . perhaps in name only, however . . .
Many still think that the election steals only began in 2000 ---
Wake up, America!! Wake up DU -- !!!

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

The computer counting began to come on line in the mid-1960's . . .
They didn't kill JFK in order to have the White House taken from them --- !!!

Two journalists who became suspicious of computer counting in the late 1960's/early 1970's ...
did begin to investigate.







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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. You're preaching to the preacher here.
Worthy of a rec.

I'll go even further. Just so I'm clearly understood, I think that anyone who doesn't push for impeachment shows a lack of understanding and a careless disregard for what it means to be an American. In short, it would be unpatriotic.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. Damn right. K&R
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Just imagine that!
:applause: K & R
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. Golly, and ya wonder why so many are against it?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
54. There are always a lot of fools and cowards, Echo In Light.
We must impeach this president. If we don't, some future president will be even worse.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #54
96. Agreed. Lack of action sends a loud message to the world, and future admins
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. And so it should destroy them.
They have allowed criminals to commit egregious crimes and treason.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. I've been saying this for MONTHS!!!
The Repukes are bleeding numbers and support anyway. Obama is leading in all the polls anyway. Impeachment hearings would be the final nail in their coffin. The "political" argument is BOGUS!!! It doesn't make any sense, never has made any sense. It's just that we hear it over and over again, so it becomes "conventional wisdom." But it's BULLSHIT!!!
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. Even if there's no time to actually impeach
Hearings would get the crimes of the Bush regime documented and out on the table. Since it's an impeachment investigation, there could be no claims of executive privilege (which, as far as I am concerned, are all bogus any way).
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. technically, impeachment can continue past the end of the administration
Edited on Thu Jun-12-08 03:47 PM by librechik
And Conyers knows this. There actually is no time pressure.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. There's no pressure?
I disagree. The purpose I see to impeachment now is to prevent another unnecessary war, this one against Iran.

As another point, I personally have little interest in pursuing impeachment beyond Bush's term in office. After January 20, 2009, Congress should concern itself with cleaning up his mess and the Justice Department can deal with Bush, Cheneny, et al.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. oh, yes yes! I meant statute wise, he is not constrained
by the next inauguration day. I agree this is most urgent!

But Conyers and others shouldn't be allowed to use the "It will take too much time" excuse.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #25
55. It should be begun during the officer's tenure -- so it should begin
before Bush (and Cheney) leave office.

I think they need to be held responsible. I realize that many of their staff, aides and appointees committed crimes, but the buck stops in the president's office as Truman said.

Impeach Bush and Cheney.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. Exactly!
And that's the very reason DLCers are so adamantly arguing against it. The only thing worse than a neocon is a neocon enabler. :puke:
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
28. So what?
Let's do it. Oh, yeah. I forgot. It's off Nancy's table. :mad:
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. You are exactly right - Impeachment would lead to the death of the Republican Party
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
33. You won't get any argument from me
You said it beautifully.

There'd be riots in the streets if local DAs let murderers and thieves walk the way Congress is doing.
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meowomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
35. I would love to see it, but you have to ask yourself..
Who are Nancy Polosi and Harry Reid trying to protect? Was there some sort of back room deal? I want the truth!! If a few Democrats, hell if most of the Democrats go down with the rethuglicans, I don't care!. I just want the truth. We deserve to know the truth. Thousands of our military and their families deserve to know the truth! The World deserves to know the truth!
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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. They are protecting themselves .Nancy supports the war
because her husband has a big construction company rebuilding Iraq.Lots of money there
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I think this is kind of a slide decision . . . from where she WAS she expected to
have to end the war based on the vote, however from ner NEW position she could see that there was
no way that the public could force this end and the powers coming at her to keep the warprofiteering going --- from Cheney/Bush, from Pentagon, from intelligence agencies, from many in Congress profiting --- isn't Feinstein's husband also profiting? -- etc, etc, etc ---

that it was just easier for her to understand that it was less trouble to "go along to get along."

And, then there is the profit for her own family . . . dum de dum dum .. . .


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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Pelosi announced on national television, *before* she was even seated...
...as Speaker, that impeachment was off the table.

So much for breaking through the marble ceiling, and the glorious future of women in government. Pelosi's going along to get along has produced massive death -- American and Iraqi death.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #43
73. As a female, I find both Pelosi and Reid HUGE disappointments . . .
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 12:13 PM by defendandprotect
...and think of Madelaine Albright!
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #73
106. I agree. Can't we scout around and find *somebody* with integrity...
...in this huge nation, to serve as our public servants at the highest level?

Gender diversity won't save us. Last night, I watched on C-SPAN a hearing of some committee of the British Parliament debating a new bill which would "Patriot Act" England even further by asking for longer periods of detention without charge for terrorist suspects. The person leading the charge *for* this reduction in civil rights was a *woman*. A *man* resigned his position in the House of Commons in protest over the passage of the bill. Seems they have the same collection of sheep for a "Congress" over there that we have over here.

The most difficult thing to overcome in saving the nation and the planet is that those in charge are "nice folks," with families, and senses of humor, and a certain charisma that makes it hard to stand back and make stern judgments about what they're doing to the world. The Tim Russert scenario comes to mind. Being a bit Irish, myself, he has always looked like someone I'd like to sit next to at a Riverdance performanance. Who could not love that roguish smile of his? But in fact, in my opinion, he made a mockery of the primary debate he presided over, in which he asked Kucinich a question about UFOs, and was blatantly preferential in whom he chose to allow to speak.

That old saw about the scientific community seems apt with regard to the passing of Tim Russert: "Sciene (Journalism) advances funeral by funeral." And yet, in watching the adulation toward Tim Russert on televsion yesterday, I admit I teared up a bit when I saw him with his son and his father, and observed the grief of those who worked with him. Thus is the power of the media to shape our thoughts and emotions. Thus is the humanity in most of us which makes it hard to pass *mature* judgment on someone who was such a nice guy that we'll just not talk about the harm he brought to the country, in his "Hail fellow, well met" kind of way.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Well, something changed Pelosi's mind on the war, because immediately AFTER the '06
election, as I recall, she can be seen on film saying that the people elected the Dems to "end the war" in Iraq!!!!

So . . . what happened?


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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #39
69. Pelosi's interest in prolonging the war may have been that it's Bush's baby
She figured public dissatisfaction with the war would help the
Dems in 2008.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #69
88. When Pelosi + Dems vote to keep the war going after '06, then it's their war . . .
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
44. Bushler is a mass murderer.


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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
45. Justice exists in this instance, or it exists nowhere. For what greater purpose is justice asked to
Edited on Thu Jun-12-08 09:29 PM by Skip Intro
wait?

Political considerations should always be secondary to our pursuit of truth and justice.

Otherwise, wtf are we, really?
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RedLetterRev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #45
65. Hear, here
How many times have we said the words "justice delayed is justice denied"? It absolutely applies in this case as it does in any other.

Impeachment is only the teensy-teeny-tiny tip of the iceberg. The investigations need to continue all the way into the Pentagon, the CIA, and the FBI. The enabling of neoKKKon agenda and their lieutenants reside in all three. Especially the CIA, since this "new" iteration of the CIA is Poppy Bush's creation. (I remember it well; I was in the military in MI at the time. We knew way-way back then Bush's "redesign" would lead to exactly what we have today. It was predictable and predicted.)

Many of us are forgetting that impeachment is just the start of the cleanup process. The neoKKKon cancer has tentacles from K street to the Oval, to the "right" half of Congress, to the Pentagon, to the CIA, to the FBI and the gestapo AKA Homeland Security. You can't treat a cancer just by zapping the mass and leaving the tentacles in place. You have to remove the mass (impeach) and every bit of every tentacle (continue the investigation, indict, convict and incarcerate) before the patient (our government) is fully in remission.

I'd say probably 3/4 of the working population in DC will get swept up and found to be guilty, tacitly complicit or overtly aiding and abetting, or at least has hands dirtier than they look. Grab the criminal element, every bit and get them far away from decent society.

A most fitting new residence for them would be one or two of those hugeass "detention facilities" that Cheneyburton has built for the rest of us.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
46. Impeachment is the only way to guarantee an attack on Iran
At least, I think so.
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Zambero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #46
64. Yes, Bush would likely wag the dog to:
1. Immediately shift the focus away from those other misdeeds.
2. Secure his "legacy" as a wartime president, risking disastrous consequences in doing so.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #46
93. Or stop one n/t
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Riverman Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
47. And While Congress is Investigating, Go Ahead and Elect a
Speaker of the House to replace Nancy "Impeachment is off the Table" Pelosi - the biggest dissapointment of any politician who has acheived her level of power in US history. I wrote here many months ago that I wished there were a process for impeaching the Speaker for Deriliction of Duty under the US Constitution. The Democrats are going to win the elections in Novemeber and regain all three branches of government. So, there should be no fear now. Time to achieve justice and bring these crimminals in the Bush White House to stand trial for their war crimes and violations of the US Constitution.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
49. Agreed - All Of these Crimes Need To Be Investigated And
Documented for the future!
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zeos3 Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
50. Let justice be served though the heavens fall
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
51. Completely Agree!
The truth needs to come out....It is not a waste of time, money or energy!
Thanks for posting. :)
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
52. And dumb-ass Pelosi what? believes it's the wrong thing to do?
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
53. How on earth could investigative hearings hurt the Democrats?
Well I'll tell you how, how about many of them are just as guilty of war crimes and profiteering as the Republicans? How about the neos are in both parties and no one wants to let the cat out of the bag? How about we really don't have two parties but one big party of corporatists that merely differ on some social issues? Just why do you think impeachment and real investigations have been off the table? They, with few exceptions, are all in it together and they aren't about to convict themselves.
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DUlover2909 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
57. agree. Send the bums to jail disgraced.
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jjr5 Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
58. Amen to that!!
And there is precedent for it:

a.In 1952, Republicans tried to impeach Truman and in 1953, they won big.

b.When the Democrats tried to impeach Nixon they had a huge victory in the next election.

c.However, for example, when Democrats in the 1980s decided not to begin impeachment proceedings against President Regan for the same reasons they hesitate impeaching Bush and Cheney now they are afraid of loosing the election in 2008, the Democrats ultimately lost the next election. Republicans and Democrats alike send a message to their constituents that they are able to hold people accountable and stand up for justice when they begin impeachment hearings.

All three points are taken from an article by a political pundit named David Swanson

Citation:

Swanson, David. What Distracts us from Impeachment? The Humanist. November/December 2005: 6-7.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
59. here's how the hearings could hurt the democrats
people could look at them holding hearings and ask themselves, is this what we pay them to do?

Shouldn't our represnetatives be working on legislation?

Isn't Bush leaving office in 7 months anyway?

Is every president going to be impeached by the opposition party now?

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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #59
75. Here's how not holding hearings could hurt the Democratic party.
>> WIMP FACTOR -- Democratic Party won't act even in the face of the most blatant criminality this nation has ever seen.
>> People could look at the criminal behavior of the Bush administration and ask themselves why the Democrats they elected in 2006 haven't proceeded further with impeachment to hold the administration accountable for its deception and corruption. Don't we pay them to protect the constitution against enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC?
>> Shouldn't our representatives be fighting against war profiteering?
>> Are the Democrats going to be too cowardly to start proceedings and hide behind the fact that his term will be ending in 7 months? They always chicken out. Their guy was impeached for lying about consensual sex and they can't impeach the opposition for lying the nation into war?
>> If our representatives haven't impeached an administration with this huge level of criminality and belligerent negligence, then when will they have the courage to take such action in the future? Aren't they creating a precedent by allowing criminality to go unchecked?
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #59
86. good points
However, if serious crimes are exposed, I think they could be overcome.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #59
101. Pure hog swill and party line nonsense...
Point by point:

"People could look at them holding hearings and ask themselves, is this what we pay them to do?"

Well yeah. It's generally understood that among their primary responsibilities is the one that compels them to "... support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Anything ambiguous about that? So this is exactly what we pay them to do. Not that it usually works out that way, as you can see in the next section.


"Shouldn't our representatives be working on legislation?"

I suppose, but that's soooo 20th Century. Below is their calendar for last Tuesday, the 10th. I would have liked a more current list of unmitigated nonsense but they knocked off early yesterday afternoon and blew off Friday entirely. Fear of Friday the 13th?

Or maybe it's their monthly bribe collection day, that much-anticipated unofficial holiday celebrating unrestrained greed when their real employers, represented by a small army of Gucci Gulch bagmen, descends on capitol hill dispensing large denomination bills with non-sequential serial numbers.

This is also called Getting Your Priorities Straight Day. It would inspire words such as graft, corruption and abuse of the public trust in any civilized country. Here, however, it's called campaign financing. And it's really no big deal because all that money's coming from idealistic donors who want nothing in return except good government.

So here's what they did in the name of good government this past Tuesday:


TUESDAY, JUNE 10, 2008 AND THE BALANCE OF THE WEEK

On Tuesday, the House will meet at 9:00 a.m. for morning hour debate and 10:00 a.m. for legislative business. Wednesday and Thursday, the House will meet at 10:00 a.m. for legislative business. On Friday, no votes are expected in the House.

1) H.Res. 1063 Marking the 225th anniversary of the Treaty of Paris of 1783, which ended the Revolutionary War with the Kingdom of Great Britain and recognized the independence of the United States of America, and acknowledging the shared values and close friendship between the peoples and governments of the United States and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (Rep. Wu Foreign Affairs)

2) H.Res. 1127 Condemning the endemic restrictions on freedom of the press and media and public expression in the Middle East and the concurrent and widespread presence of anti-Semitic material, Holocaust denial, and incitement to violence in the Arab media and press, as amended (Rep. Ackerman Foreign Affairs)

3) H.Con.Res. 318 Supporting the goals and ideals of the International Year of Sanitation (Rep. Payne Foreign Affairs)

4) H.Con.Res. 332 Recognizing the 60th Anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Rep. Fortenberry Foreign Affairs)

5) H.Con.Res. 337 Honoring the Seeds of Peace for its 15th anniversary as an organization (Rep. Allen Foreign Affairs)

6) H.Con.Res. 336 - Honoring the sacrifices and contributions made by disabled American veterans (Rep. Altmire Veterans Affairs)

7) H.Res. 1235 - Expressing support for the designation of National D-Day Remembrance Day, and recognizing the spirit, courage, and sacrifice of the men and women who fought and won World War II (Rep. Scalise Veterans Affairs)

8) H.Res. 1010 - Recognizing the importance of manufactured housing in the United States (Rep. Donnelly Financial Services)

9) S. 682 - Edward William Brooke III Congressional Gold Medal Act (Sen. Kennedy Financial Services)

10) H.Res. 1145 - Recognizing the 100 year anniversary of the establishment of St. Mary's Cooperative Credit Association, the "Bank of the People", and the birth of the American credit union (Rep. SheaPorter Financial Services)

11) S. 254 - To award posthumously a Congressional gold medal to Constantino Brumidi (Sen. Enzi Financial Services)

12) H.R. 3229 - National Infantry Museum and Soldier Center Commemorative Coin Act (Rep. Westmoreland Financial Services)

13) H.R. 2268 - Mother's Day Centennial Commemorative Coin Act (Rep. Capito Financial Services)

14) H.R. 1553 - Conquer Childhood Cancer Act of 2007 (Rep. Pryce - Energy and Commerce)

15) H.Res. 977 - Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that rebate checks would better stimulate the economy if spent on American-made products and services from American-owned companies (Rep. Braley - Energy and Commerce)

16) S. 2146 - To authorize EPA to accept, as part of a settlement, diesel emission reduction Supplemental Environmental Projects. (Sen. Carper - Energy and Commerce)

17) H.Res. 1236 - Expressing the sympathy of the House of Representatives to the citizens of Black Hawk, Buchanan, Butler, and Delaware Counties, Iowa, who were victims of the devastating tornado that struck their communities on May 25, 2008 (Rep. Braley Transportation and Infrastructure)



Personally, I've never really thought much about "recognizing the importance of manufactured housing in the United States." But then I never really think about a lot of truly important stuff. So I'm grateful that the Honorable Joe Donnelly of Indiana, a democrat's democrat, found time to sponsor H. Res. 1010. I'm sure his campaign "donors" in the double-wide biz appreciate his efforts, too.


"Isn't Bush leaving office in 7 months anyway?"

Well, he's supposed to, taking the entire nest of fascist vermin infesting official Washington for the past eight years with him. But then again, he hasn't been too concerned about obeying any other part of the Constitution, so why would the 22nd Amendment be an exception?

If they can't be sure that the fix is in securely enough to assure a McPain victory, why would they want to leave and trust that Obama and a new congress -- hopefully one in which the blue dogs and other reactionaries hiding behind the little "d" after their names are either gone, muzzled or in prison -- wouldn't just decide to have some real fun and go after them with both barrels and a hundred million dollar, multi-level investigation from which they can't even escape the consequences of an unpaid parking ticket?

Why take that chance when a dictatorship is just another false flag op away, blamed of course on Iranian "Islamofascists" assisted by some of those gosh darn domestic terra-ists.

And the results are a vision of heaven on earth for these madmen: another dose of "smart bombs" for Tehran, another million or so civilians crushed or vaporized, and imposition of martial law at home. Blackwater's ready to provide security; the entire legal and physical infrastructure's in place to shut this place down like a bank vault. All that's left is flipping the switch.

Gotta be a mighty tempting option, especially when the scaffold is a real possibility.


"Is every president going to be impeached by the opposition party now?"

I sure hope so. It's way more fun than watching a bunch of decal-coated hot rods make left turns for a couple of hours. And most would probably be acquitted by the Senate anyway. So we'd have the spectacle and the voyeuristic pleasure of watching the "most powerful man in the world" get nailed to the wall every four or eight years. But no harm, no foul for the most part.

Tell me that's not a pricey pay-per-view extravaganza just waiting to happen.


wp
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #101
102. exactly--Congress is practically hogtied now because of the veto&filibuster
They might as well do one more thing that will waste a lot of time and have no hope of passing--but at least it provides a lesson in the way the constitution should be respected!
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #101
103. but other people might not think like you
that's how it could hurt the democrats.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. If other people thought like me...
... I'd fear for the human race even more than I already do.

But the thing is, I'm not inventing a belief system. Those points I made -- sarcastically, yes, but they're valid concerns nonetheless -- are counter-arguments to the public positioning statements of democratic invertebrates who use those excuses to slither out of their responsibilities to the Constitution, which includes serving their constituents in the most effective ways possible. Naive I know, but that's really their job description.

At this very dangerous point in history, their constituents would be served best if congress would remove the bastards who are threatening nuclear annihilation, robbing them blind in every conceivable way, setting up a thriving national security state and using a private army of stateless mercenaries to keep the peasants in line.

There are at least three fundamental reasons for taking direct action against the Bush crime syndicate NOW:

- Simple justice demands accountability for their crimes against humanity and the thin veneer of civilization that keeps us from slaughtering each other. They've destroyed what's left of the US' already shaky good-guy PR image and repositioned it as the most powerful, feared and despised rogue nation and perpetrator of state-sponsored terrorism on earth. And the whole thing is justified by a million lies, lapped up by an incurious and gullible population, that comprise the ideological foundation of this Bushean parallel universe, AKA the official story. These are crimes against the very fundamentals of civilization and the Bushies -- every last one of them -- must pay the price.

- Congress must assert a policy of zero tolerance for power grabs by the executive branch and back that policy up with a clearly defined and suitably harsh response. This may get the attention of the next coven of wingnut fascist megalomaniacs, the loons who long for another Bushean-style coup and de facto dictatorship, and force them to confront the fact that they're risking serious legal consequences. The best way to make that point is to nail up this current batch of fascist madmen in the public square and expose the magnitude of their crimes in minute detail before the country and the world. The public square is now TV, so this display of mass criminality reaches billions instead of a couple hundred. Maybe when the signs and symptoms are common knowledge, when they're recognized immediately, maybe we can avoid the next PNAC and preempt the next right wing coup. Maybe not, but it's damn well worth a try.

- Impeachment investigations will keep the swine up late planning legal defense strategies with their $5,000 a day attorneys when they would otherwise be plotting the destruction of Iran and getting thousands more US troops and Iraqi civilians killed or maimed. Oh oh... the body count in Afghanistan seems rather low these days; better step it up there as well. I think anything that prevents such planning sessions is by definition essential. Impeachment as mass murder prevention strategy... How weird is that? But that's what these maniacs have done.

It may also rob them of the time it takes to negotiate the purchase of another vast tract of land in a non-extradition country. If you aren't familiar with the story, here's the background. The first such deal went south when the Paraguayan people, after suffering through 60 straight years of brutal fascist dictatorships, finally managed to hold free elections and dumped the fascist Colorado party by a huge percentage in favor of a left-leaning economic and social reformer named Fernando Lugo, a former Catholic bishop who took the teachings of Christ a little too seriously for the Vatican's elitists and got fired as a result.

Well aware of the Bushies' plans to move their base of criminal operations to his country, and what a disaster that would be for his reformist agenda, he's been working overtime negotiating and signing extradition treaties with the rest of the civilized world. As a result, Paraguay is now hostile territory for fascist escapees, particularly those associated with the Bush international crime syndicate. Small world, particularly if you're a dethroned totalitarian de facto dictator trying to disappear in a world that's overflowing with people who've been waiting impatiently to get their figurative hands around the Bushies' metaphorical throats. Or maybe not so metaphorical at all.


These are not trivial issues. Rather, they define the difference between bringing the hammer down full force and imposing on them the rule of law they so blithely pissed all over and called "that goddamn piece of paper," and watching them ride off into the sunset, saddle bags stuffed with slips of paper on which are written the access numbers that unlock all those off-shore bank accounts, full of the spoils of the successful war they've waged against the entire 99.5 percent of the world's population who don't matter except as targets for armed robbery.

Personally, since I'm an atheist and don't believe their punishment awaits them in the afterlife, I'm very interested in nailing their vicious, traitorous asses right here, right now. If we don't, or more accurately if congress fails to perform one its most critical jobs, we might as well just take the Constitution out of its case at the National Archives and use it to light one of Limpball's tiny-weenie-compensator illegal Cuban cigars.


wp
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
60. It doesn't matter
It does not matter what it would do to the Republicans or Democrats. Laws have been broken by this administration. The entire world is waiting for this.
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lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
61. Great point. Can you just imagine McSame and other 'pukes
running for Congressional seats having to address the dirt that would be dug up in the hearings? Like cockroaches running from light, I tell ya.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
90. Imagine if we don't impeach and we get McCain via another steal . . .????
We'd be doubly hung ---
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JPettus Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
62. You are assuming that the mainstream media would cover it
And not spin it in favor of the GOP and the corporations.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #62
94. They would spin, but just like Clinton, the people would know better
I'm not pitching a WINNING impeachment trial, don't think anyone could guarantee that. I just want the hearings, and let the chips fall where they may.
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Nipper1959 Donating Member (322 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
63. 100% in favor of impeachment, However
The danger for Democrats is that most of the leadership, Pelosi et al, would be exposed by the fact that they knew about much (not all) of the illegal activity yet said nothing. Their inaction would be viewed as consent for the impeachable offenses. Yt would be a huge embarrassment and possibly lead to their removal from leadership positions.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
70. AGREE!! HOWEVER - MANY Dems would go down also!
that's why they will not impeach
:banghead:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #70
91. Can you be more specific for us all --- ?????
Granted, I'm not optimistic that Obama will come in and do anything about any of this ---

I think we'll see he'll do what Clinton did re Iran-Contra, etal --- ignore it ---

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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #91
97. For Example: Here's Durbin admitting some things
Durbin and other Dems participated in the Lies that led to war

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyonYGeyFb4

Pelosi & Reid were told.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #97
109. Thanks for the info ---
It's late and I'll have to try to look/listen to it tomorrow --
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #70
95. Let the chips fall where they may (why we need a Special Prosecutor)
becasue we can't trust the Dem Leadership on this. Pelosi et al need to recuse themselves. But not necessarily right away. It's Conyers' decision. She could let them happen and test the waters. Or perhaps step down. That is the hardest part, of course, but she can be persuaded politically.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. Agree completely - especially about the Step down part.
:toast:
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. --I just signed the petition--
putting my sig where my mouth is!
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
72. K&R I want ALL GUILTY PARTIES TO BE,
IMPEACHED, ARRESTED, PROSECUTED AND JAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't care if they are thugs or dems! If they are involved in any way with these criminals, they should be held accountable, too.

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
74. I think they're doing a good job of destroying themselves right now?
Edited on Fri Jun-13-08 01:05 PM by mzmolly
I like the idea of hearings, and even impeachment, but I'm not sure how impeachment would impact the election?

I think having oil company execs testify about this would definitely have an impact:

http://www.gregpalast.com/obama%E2%80%99s-secret-war-pr...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
76. Just revealing how they enabled ENRON and now the OIL INDUSTRY . . .
would blow the GOP out of the water --- and at the WH levels ---

Where that evidence may be, who knows --- but it was pretty much hanging out there and it
seemed to me easy to find --- ????

Who in the Democratic Party is protecting the OIL industry --- anyone watch this?

Stevens in Alaska in his own way, of course --- all the way back to EXXON VALDEZ ---

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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
89. K because I can't fucking R it any more.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-13-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
92. Recommend --
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man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-14-08 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
104. An excellent post!
Edited on Sat Jun-14-08 08:32 AM by anotheryellowdog
It is a sad commentary on how far we as a nation have fallen from our ideals that impeachment investigations have not already been held and concluded followed immediately thereafter by impeachment itself, conviction, removal from office and a trial in the Hague.

:kick:
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