Gas costs

[drmeow]

1.35 Euros/liter in Spain or $7.90/gallon

[Rosemary2205]

1. how much is the gas and how much is taxes?

apples to apples and all that.

[SergeyDovlatov]

17. California 62.8c, US Average 47c

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States

[Rosemary2205]

19. Spain's gas taxs aren't on that list. That's what I'm asking.

[SergeyDovlatov]

18. dup. self - delete

[Lebam in LA]

2. At the rate we are going

it won't be long before we are paying the same. I filled up last Thursday at $4.47/gal and today at the same station at $4.67/gal. $.20/gal in less than a week

[LSK]

3. they get a huge social safety net with some of those taxes

If you want to be fair, add up your healthcare costs to the tank of gas and it might be a fair comparison.

[Clark2008]

8. But I wouldn't mind paying $8 per gallon if

A.) I didn't have to pay healthcare premiums, co-pays and for procedures not covered by insurance and;
B.) I had better access to public transporation. The rural areas and suburban-ish cities of America have no decent public transporation. We have it in my city, but the buses don't run as far out in the county as I work. I get decent gas mileage, though.

[KillCapitalism]

11. Me either.

Plus they get free education (university) and free childcare.

[The2ndWheel]

13. What about the people that do seem to mind paying that much?

The Europeans that are currently protesting.

[nomorenomore08]

4. What about their public transit system, though?

And what about all the free stuff (e.g. healthcare) that they get and we don't? Adjust for those factors, and then get back to me.

[drmeow]

5. Interesting to see how people respond

I was simply making a statement. I just got back from Spain and my reaction to their gas prices was "Ouch!!!" However, since people have brought up some other issues, I'll address some of them.

1) Gas and oil are subsidized in this country. We actually pay lower sales tax on gas than other products. Oil companies pay lower income tax on average. See http://www.progress.org/2003/energy22.htm and http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/fuel_economy/subsidizing-big-oil.html

2) Yes, Europe has better public transportation. They also have a very different lifestyle. Unlike the US they have chosen to invest in their public transportation system to benefit their people rather than investing in highways, etc, to benefit the oil, car, and tire industries as well as land developers.

3) The higher European gas taxes are not used to pay for health care, they are used to subsidize public transportation. Therefore factoring in health care benefits is not relevant.

[gatorboy]

6. Do you have proof the taxes only go to subsidize public transportation?

A CNN article states that the taxes go to the general budget, which I assume would include healthcare.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/21/news/international/europe_gas/index.htm?cnn=yes

Schipper said the European gas taxes were instituted in the 1920's, primarily as a luxury tax on automobiles, which were then mostly toys for the rich.

The relatively vast network of rail lines were already laid, and gasoline tax revenue was directed to general state coffers. Even today, gas taxes go to the state's general budget and are not specifically marked for mass transit or other environmental projects.

------------------------------------------------------------

Are they wrong? :shrug:

[Clark2008]

9. It doesn't matter if it doesn't go directly into health care

The difference is that Americans are spending more out-of-pocket for healthcare and related industries and can't afford $8 gas as a result.

[Ravy]

7. Raising the gas tax dramatically is an issue that needs to be discussed.

I know it is a very hard subject, but raising the costs further may cut the demand enough and force people to changing their lifestyles to something that is more eco-friendly (both ecology and economy).

The extra money should be used to subsidize purchases of more eco-friendly automobiles, first for the government, then for the general public.

Fixing this reliance on foreign oil will be painful, but necessary. Let's see if anyone has the balls to do it.

[The2ndWheel]

10. There is no such thing as an eco-friendly automobile

Walking impacts the environment. Simply existing impacts the environment. Giving ourselves the ability to travel great distances in a short amount of time, and increasing the efficiency of doing so, can only increase the impact we have.

Force is the tricky part. We don't like that the oil and car companies force us to live in their vision of the perfect world. Yet if we increase the tax, and force people to live in some other utopia, that's fine and dandy?

"Fixing this reliance on foreign oil"

But reliance on government subsidies paid by the use of foreign oil(or oil in general) is a good thing?

[Ravy]

12. We increase Tobacco tax and the usage goes down.

The taxes fund anti-smoking campaigns and help defray some of the damage done by smoking.

Gasoline should be no different. We should use the sale of it to help curb the use of it. Big oil makes big profits because people choose to pay their price. If the oil companies had to scramble for customers again, it *might* have the effect of lowering prices in time.

[taterguy]

14. Using tobacco is rarely a job requirement

However, lots of people need their cars for work.

[Ravy]

15. These people need to change their habits.

Carpooling, biking, more efficient means of transportation. I hate to sound Draconian, but it is a fairly Draconian subject. We need to change the way we consume gas. The extra taxes should be earmarked to make that transition easier, but it must be made.

[taterguy]

16. How did you get to work today?

I'm curious

[Ravy]

20. I walked.

It is about 12 feet from my bedroom door to my office. I telecommute.

I do have to fly a lot, however, and I hate it. My car is 12 years old (95 Jeep Wrangler) and has less than 40K miles on it.

I notice that when airlines raise their prices, my customers (who pay all expenses when I fly) are a lot more willing to let me have a VPN access to their network and save the cost of airfare/hotel, etc.

I am not a saint, I do work for some of the nastiest corporations ever to exist... but I try to do what I can, and that includes using technology to save me having to fly someplace if at all possible.

[taterguy]

26. So when you go to the airport, how do you get there?

Do you ride a bicycle already or are you waiting for taxes to go up enough to provide you with a sufficient financial incentive?

[Ravy]

27. I take my Jeep. As I said, I am not a Saint.. it is 40 miles and I have luggage...

but... if there was public transportation, I would take it. And if I was paying more for gas, I might have public transportation. If I got a 5k rebate from the government, I might even take the Jeep and trade it in on something more economical.

I would not be unaffected by higher gas prices, so I think I have some credibility here. I am not proposing something that wouldn't affect me totally, but gas has a price where people will just stop buying so much of it. We can either let the oil companies figure out where that price is, or we can grab some of it with taxes and put it to work for the public betterment.

[Rosemary2205]

21. I'm with but you got the cart before the horse IMHO

the decent (or even half decent) jobs aren't where the DECENT AND AFFORDABLE housing is in most places. If you make transportation from home to the job cost prohibitive you'll be opening a pandoras box. There are just too many places in this country, both rural and suburbs, that biking, carpooling or taking public transit is not an good option yet. In addition, you have the added cost to every single thing we buy.

My business alone, the cost to transport our goods around the country is getting close to 22% or more of the cost of the product itself. Our profit margin is already pretty low so those costs have to be passed on to the customer, who in turn passes them on to theirs.

And while "buy locally" sounds wonderful, I think you'll be hard pressed to find durable goods manufacturers who can stay in business if transportation costs make sales outside the local area impossible.

[Ravy]

22. I just said it needs to be discussed.

Perhaps some sort of phasing in period.

I suspect that if the government added an extra dollar to the gas tax when it was $3.00/gal (raising it to 4/gal) that we would *not* be having $5.00 gas right now (as opposed to $4). The law of supply and demand right now is so much in favor of big oil that they can make these huge profits.

I don't really like the idea of taxing them, as they will just use that for an excuse for their high profits. I would rather curb the demand with taxes and use the money to help further curb the demand with more economical use of fuel resources.

The gas prices will continue to go up until this demand curve changes.

[Rosemary2205]

24. These prices aren't related to supply and demand.

Based on supply/demand we should be somewhere around $60-70 a barrel for oil and $2- $2.50 for regular gas. Everything else is commodities speculation bubble.

[Ravy]

25. Supply and Demand are a factor, even if not the only factor.

Do you think that back when gas was $1 a gallon that if the federal government had the nerve to raise the gas tax an additional dollar that we would have ever seen a Hummer come off the production line? And, if the extra dollar for every gallon sold since then was used to subsidize hybrid vehicle purchases, wind farms, solar energy panels and public transportation that we would be in the energy mess that we are in now?

We have to start somewhere. When people stop using as much, we won't be spending as much. Right now, there are not many alternatives. We can let the oil companies continue with their record profits paid for by American blood until they raise the price to force people to change their consuming habits, or the government can help that process along and take some of the pain out of it.

[AteAlien]

23. but, they do at least

get to have siestas. Americans work their asses off for nothing, and never even get to have a little afternoon delight unless they are one of the top 1% who spit on the rest of us.