Do City Libs hate country bumpkins

[nadinbrzezinski]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3357932&mesg_id=3357932

This thread had me thinking about this, and how the media has once again struck.

Yes, some folks who live in cities hate people who live in the country side, and some folks in the country side are less informed, and proud of it.

That said, the TEEVEEE, yes that wonderful device, has been used to create division. In fact, the telescreen is now in your living room helping you to create these mental paradigms.

And it is not just the ignorant country bumpkin, (Dukes of Hazard anyone?) but also other stereotypes. Watch your programs. They all happen in middle class America. They all have carefully selected ratios of different "races" to be portrayed,,, but mostly we are to portray WHITE middle class americans, with a few Gays and Lesbians (who never make truly political statements), and a few blacks and latinos who usually are in subservient positions, or inevitably will go to jail.

In a country that is no longer white, by majority don't you find that odd?

Oh and the news, One of my local stations has three blondes on the staff. Is being blonde, white and blue eyed a requirement for a career? I think yes. And mostly all our reporters are white, with the token asian and hispanic, never mind most of the locals ARE hispanics.

So yes, one of the problems we have is to diversify the media, and stop the representation of certain groups of people as idiots. Yes some folks in all groups will fit the stereotype, but not all, in fact mostly none. We humans are a tad more complex.

And as the next election comes, we need to retake the media and change this as well...

So many things, so little time...

On edit, Whites are still the majority, but by 2010 the US Census expects California to no longer have a majority white population, and the rest of the country will follow, in some places faster than others, by at most 2040

That is if current trends continue.

And why some folks are so afraid of the brown people

[Hardrada]

1. Link to where Caucasians are supposedly in the minority in the US.

I do not have this information.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. California will have a majority hispanic by the 2010 census

and the rest of the country is expected to follow suit by 2030 or 40 if current trends continue

So you are correct, technically we are not there yet... but we are well on our way

[rwheeler31]

9. I get tired of ,cities are full of crime,

There is crime everywhere, and if there is not make another law.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Been readying a book on fears that Americans have

it is not just that they are full of crime, but who commits the crime

It is no coincidence that my local station ran a couple stories (that should be local, as in somebody else's) of two black crimes in the East Coast

One involved a kid who became organ donor to mom after an accident, and mom survived... second boy drove in while pursued by cops.

So not even when one kid is good, these people are good.

No wonder whites are so afraid of... blacks....

And this is ON PURPOSE

[Demobrat]

4. I'm a caucasian living in CA and a minority.

http://www.movoto.com/neighborhood/ca/san-francisco/94133.htm

[johnnycatt]

12. we're all minorities!

Somehow, I don't think Aglo-germanic-italian-afro-native-American is a majority of the American population, but that what I am, although I a very light skinned and have straight hair. Why do I have to be WHITE, when it's only a fraction of what I am?

My great great great grandmother was the daughter of a 1/2 black 1/2 white mother and a Cherokee dad.

So where is my 40 acres and a mule, where is my tribe's land? Why do i have to be white, just because the majority of my RECENT ancestors are?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Good point, and my hubby used to drive the

Navy folk who cared about that NUTS.

He usually wrote Irish American on forms

And a guy on the boat was German American since he was born in a military base in Germany... did I mention he was African American?

I refused to answer the what are you question when I graduated from both my undergrad and grad programs...

I found it INSULTING.

But then again I wasn't born in the US

Though granted, technically I am hispanic, as I was born in Mexico

My dad is Polish and my mom's parents are Russian

So am I a Mexican, Jewish, Polish Russian? What a mess!

[psychmommy]

3. i love my country cousins.

i think some rural dems might hate my skin color. but, i have no hate for them. people fear the unknown-they fear people who are different. i love to hear country folk speak-i love listening to people's accents and colloquialisms.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

5. San Antonio.

San Antonio has always been minority caucasian.

The rich white people who own things live on the north side.

That's where I went to college.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. And control city politics, IIRC

San Diego is that way to a point.

[willing dwarf]

7. Divide and conquer works

Black vs White vs Latino vs Asian
Black American vs Black African
Red State vs Blue State
Unions vs Independent Contractors
City vs Country
Obama vs Clinton
Latte vs Maxwell House


we can focus on divisions our whole life and never get anywhere. Forming coalitions, finding unity,identifying commonground will help us find the path ahead.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Marx spoke of this the most clearly

and one of the reasons he was vilified

Class (no, not the silly thing we know off in the US), but the real thing... is a dangerous thing, since that identification with class will erase those divisions quite fast

And to use the classic definition, per Marx... the Proletariat are not those who control the means of production.

And if the American Proles finally got it, and stopped fighting because he's brown and she drinks a fancy coffee, the elites would be more than just afraid

[Selatius]

31. You're talking dangerously, now. It's one of the reasons why Americans are taught there is no class.

If Americans learned to see beyond racial or cultural differences and identified with the common problems many of us have, there is a chance for mass organization, and it would be akin to a workshop organizing in the face of employer resistance, but it would be on a nationwide scale, the kind of organizing that rocks nations down to their foundations because it means real change is coming, and capitalists fear change or anything that could threaten their power structure.

Mass action is the only power out there greater than all the tyrannies capitalists have inflicted upon mankind. Talk to France. They almost went through a socialist revolution in 1968, this in the heart of an industrialized continent. The government was even contemplating putting tanks on the streets of Paris like it was Tiananmen Square as a final resort at the behest of the Gaullists and the institutional state socialists and trade unions who wanted the movement stopped because they couldn't co-opt something that was erupting from below, from the masses themselves.

[tech3149]

11. I'm not sure how to qualify myself

I grew up in a rural area with a cow pasture as my back yard. I lived in a tough city neighborhood going to school. I spent 15 years or so living and working in the Metro NY area. I found idiots and a**holes in every part of my life experience. I could never hate even those that chose not to be informed about the world around them. As far as those that have less opportunity to learn about the world around them (aka Country Bumpkins), I find they have an understanding of the world that shows much more precise perception of their place in the world.
Growing up in a rural monoculture and spending most of my adult life in a multicultural atmosphere, I'd say that the real problem is a lack of understanding on both sides. The central problem to the misunderstanding is the TEEVEE, or more precisely, corporate for-profit media trying to sell a problem that doesn't exist.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I'd hazard to say that the problem exists... if at all

at levels of far less importance than the corpo media says it exists

Just like black on white crime

Illegals stealing our jobs

And the other myriad of things we all should fear

So essentially we agree...

I grew up in a city (not in this country), a large city... and my hubby split his time between the country and again a large city.

And as you said, there are a-holes everywhere, but the media has created yet another "fear" and it is amazing how many of us fall for it

Michael Moore actually ran in Bowling for Columbine a Canadian news clip... believe you me it would be good for the country if all we cared about was the placement of a speed bump instead of the if it bleeds it leads

[AnnieBW]

13. I hate country bumpkins

that vote Republican. I also hate city dwellers and suburbanites that vote Republican. :D

[Retired AF Dem]

43. Hating people for the way they vote?

that truly makes us a third world banana republic.

[AnnieBW]

59. I was echoing the OP's title.

Actually, I have friends who are Republicans. We just agree to disagree on politics.

[havocmom]

14. A program for exchange students - city/country would be a help

Have lived in big cities, small cities, megalopolis, tiny towns, sorta being an anthropologist. Notice the real root seems to be people don't have enough real understanding of how the 'other' lives. Not enough appreciation for the challenges, joys, daily experiences.

We have foreign exchange programs so students from other places can get to know us and us them. I really think an urban/rural exchange program WITHIN America would help shrink the divide and show we are a lot alike, just have different immediate realities. I think it would build some solid understanding to have kids 'swap lives' for a bit here and there.

The TV is just part of the disconnect and it is a bad thing when people consider it to portray reality. People need to get out and get to know each other. I read some of the crap DUers post about rural populations and I can see why rural peoples could draw the conclusion that DEMS are elitist. If their only experience with liberals was to be put down for the circumstances of their location....

I live in a VERY small village. I was DEM #6 when I moved here and registered to vote. I am a good person and treat others fairly. Some people here like me, some do not. Most are astounded when I tell them I am a Liberal Dem and always have been. I have been met with comments like: 'But, you're NICE!'

So if the city mice think the country mice are all ignorant and the country mice figure the city mice are all arrogant pigs, the cats are the ones who win. Time for the mice to shake hands and notice how much alike they really are and fight against the Fat Cats who hurt them all.

OK, I'm done :rant:

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. But your nice... that is also a product of the media

and as you said, the big cats.

[havocmom]

18. Yep. Not many really know the other. But TV and radio keeps a divide between We the People

and the 1% profits handsomely from screwing us all over as we don't notice, what with bein busy bickering.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. It is also city design and architectural design

my apartment building, for example, is designed to reduce contact between residents to a minimum

And... so is current urban design

All this leads to anomie (social isolation, I like the world)

:-)

[havocmom]

33. Nadine, I think America started going down the tubes when they built houses without porches

Now I have a word for the condition that resulted. Thanks for that! :hug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. You welcome, and I think we will go back to that

SOON.

I got a bike yesterday... and that forces me to see the city in a different way.

It will come, no choice mostly

[Thothmes]

60. Air Conditioning will be the ruin of us all.

[NuttyFluffers]

35. reminds me of a quote, was it Twain?

"don't tell me what you know, tell me where you've been"

travel is a crucial factor in humbling people, building compassion and tolerance.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Yep, I know that for a fact

once you travel you realize people are far more like you than unlike you.

[Selatius]

17. I don't know if the US can maintain its territorial integrity forever without shattering like Rome.

Eventually, people part ways. That was always the case throughout history. Nations break apart, and I don't think the US is going to be the exception.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I think it will happen in my lifetime, by the way

partly driven by the media

Can we say law of unintended consequences?

[magellan]

28. I don't think it's unintended

But otherwise I agree with you: it's driven by the PAID FOR PROGRAMMING that passes for media in this country, and their corporate sponsors in government that thrive on division. And I expect to see it within my lifetime too.

Watched V for Vendetta again last night and noticed again the newscast talking about how the US civil war was still in full flame. It's not only us who are expecting it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. I actually think it is the law of unintended consequences

writers, in particular science fiction and future telling writers, tend to look for trends, why you saw it in V

And why you see that in Shadowrun (quite an old game), and in the Ten Nations of North America

[Hardrada]

26. Split along racial lines do you think?

There are some groups that would find that ideal!

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Not quite, mostly CULTURAL lines

[Hardrada]

29. Northern European (white), Mediterranean: Spain, Italy, Greece (white)

Slavic (white), Middle American (white). You have a point. These are various cultures but perhaps have enough in common for a section of their own since all have a Christian heritage. Who knows what will happen?

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Mexifornia would not be quite WHITE

but never mind... those who are too blind...

[Hardrada]

58. Well.....no. I was thinking of the SW as a separate entity

and with Mexico something like it was before the Mexican War. People have been talking about that for years. It would make sense. I wasn't thinking of that area along racial lines since it is more heterogeneous.

[Aristus]

22. I don't necessarily hate country bumpkins. I just hate the fact that they vote.

If we didn't have country bumpkins, who could I make fun of? B-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Somebody else I am sure

[cali]

30. Vermont is full of country bumpkins. We vote.

And we vote more liberally than anyone else. Any other state have an independent socialist Senator? Why no. Any other state have a functioning Progressive Party? Why no. Any other state have a Senate that voted to impeach Cheney and Bush? (Maybe, but we were first)

[zanne]

42. True. It's the cultural identity, not the geographical area. nt

[Aristus]

64. If you are awake on the planet, wide-eyed, well-informed, conscientious, concerned,

responsible and patriotic enough to vote liberal, then you are, by definition, not a bumpkin. 'Bumpkin' implies illiteracy, ignorance, narrow-mindedness, parochialism and provincialism.

[PufPuf23]

47. Humboldt county, CA is rural

and progressive. I live in the boondocks and there are plenty of liberals as well as rednecks and Native Americans; educated and uneducated; well traveled and life experienced or scarcely moved. I liked that Twain quote. lol

[Thothmes]

61. One of the minor faults

with the Consititution of the United States. People get to vote in our country. Is this something that you would like to do away with?

[Kitty Herder]

24. What about us lefty country bumpkins?

Where do we fit into the picture?

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. If you ask the media, who's created these images

you don't exist

Don't worry, as a latino (very technically) I don't exist either. We are supposed to be to the right of Bill=o and I do know one that fits that description to a T

:-)


In the image creation we have been sold a bill of goods where you are not real, and cannot be real since you do not follow "traditional American Values" whatever those are....

[rucky]

38. I'm sorry to inform you...

that you don't exist.

[blindpig]

32. a problem long considered...

Even should the people wrest control from the capitalist, televison ought be eliminated or restricted and severely reworked, it has too much power over human perception.

The way the Man has used it to shape public perception is a crime against humanity.

[baldguy]

34. You've got it backwards.

Country bumpkins hate the city & all it represents.

[blindpig]

39. nonsense

Country folks hate the condescending dismissiveness of city folk. Like yours.

They prefer to be left the hell alone.

I strongly suggest that you read Deer Hunting With Jesus, by Joe Bagaent. Might do you some good.

[baldguy]

40. When tornadoes ravage the countryside, causing a great deal of damage & death

Do your hear preachers admonish the residents about their evil lifestyles which brought the devastation? That it was their sin which brought down God's wrath upon them? Or drought? Or floods? Never.

But when earthquakes hit Los Angeles or San Francisco, when hurricanes hit New Orleans or Miami, when terrorism attacks New York or Washington such claims are commonplace - even expected - and widely held. When the people in cities suffer a common expression of people in the country is that somehow they deserved it.

It comes out in public policy too. Cities get much less in the way of federal & state funds per capita than do rural areas. People & businesses who can generally move out of cities to the suburbs - and take the tax base with them. So the infrastructure crumbles, services are cut, schools rot & students are abandoned.

In contrast, rural areas are subsidized - with farm payments & subsidies, federal grants to build & maintain highways & other infrastructure, and with funding set aside to maintain wilderness areas. It costs the rest of us a hell of alot to allow rural residents the LUXURY of being left alone.

[blindpig]

44. You might consider where your food comes from.

Do you like to eat?

It is utterly wrong that those farm subsidies that you mention go mostly to corporations, not the small farmer, just one more of the injustices of capitalism. Maintaining infrastructure, natural areas, is part of the commonweal, it is for all of us. Without infrastructure how does the food get to your table? The burbs are part of the urban environment, though they hate to admit it. I would suspect that the preachers whom you decry are most likely from suburban mega-churches. Of course there are bigots, racism is American as apple pie, that nasty anti-Obama church sign that made the rounds a few months ago was located about 15 miles from my house. Yet there are more racist in the burbs than in the country, simply by weight of numbers. Suburbanites, so sophisticated and masters of euphemisms, are just better at disguising it. Rural racist are just plain spoken, and it stands out.

The reason that cities are crumbling is because of suburban flight and de-industrialization, which ruined the tax base. The policies which promoted these dreadful developments were the product of urban dwellers.

Historically speaking, the city is a parasite of the farmer.

I spent 28 years in the city and the last 26 in the country, took a long time to get rid of my urban arrogance. Some of the finest people I've ever met you might call rednecks, and we've got some king hell assholes too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Thank you both for the text book example

yes, the preachers blame the cities for their sins... BUT... it is not the preachers who have access to the media,

The media picks up on this and amplifies it...

OTOH the city is not a parasite of the country side, since BOTH are necessary for a successful MODERN state... and both are victims of Central Government Policy that actually benefits those in power. You see each other as the enemy and those who control you, even using the telescreens, win.

[NuttyFluffers]

36. if i control what you can see and hear, i can control what you perceive...

if i can control what you perceive, i can control how you think.

if i can control how you think, i can control you.

TV is a remarkable instrument, but of epic levels of power. thankfully the internet and computers offer an interesting alternative to the propagation of media. there is give and take with individuals because now they have tools of editing and editorializing. montage, deconstruction, criticism, discussion, et cetera is now all possible with the wonderful tools of modern computing. it makes for an interesting age watching TV face a real competitor and mitigating power.

[rucky]

37. Country Bumpkins vs. City Slickers

the rivalry's been going on since waaaaay before liberals were invented. I've lived in both and prefer the country, but that decision has very little to do with politics.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. It has, but right now it is made that more powerful

by the media

[zanne]

41. If you go by the TEEVEE...

Female detectives wear plunging necklines, have big boobs and tend to bend over alot. But yeah, stereotyping does work to some degree.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. And some do in real life... met some detectives in my time

but they are the minority

There what the Teevee is playing on is on human sexuality

Those detectives will also be MOSTLY white, or if not, SECONDARY characters (see law and order)

[WindRiverMan]

45. I live out in the country, have for years

and I notice that lots of my neighbors are democrats. Quite a few of them are Republicans as well, but I would say its 50/50 or 40/60.

It was when I lived in suburbia that I was surrounded by Republican pricks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. And I have the sneaky that if we look at county electoral maps

that will match...

[Malidictus Maximus]

46. Another place where there are real reasons for differences: guns

I am very strongly pro RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms), but I can see *WHY* the other side feels as they do.

If you live in,say, San Francisco or New York, (A) the only people who have guns are, in a large part, either thugs or cops. and (B) even if someone DOES use a gun for self defense, the projectile has to go somewhere even after it goes through the bad guy, to say nothing of if one misses. So if I lived in a NY apartment, I might reasonably be unhappy with my next door or downstairs neighbor keeping an AKS or AR15 for 'self defense (ignoring the fact that there are much better alternatives, such as a shotgun or handgun with frangible- non penetrating- ammo). Yes, there are exceptions; shooting sports enthusiasts who go to ranges, know their weapons and handle them responsibly, but I am just stating that in general many, many city dwellers don't have, like or support the right to own guns, particularly those commonly carried for self defense or resembling military models in calibre and/or visual features (civilian guns are NOT military weapons, fully automatic firearms are almost impossible to obtain and prohibitively expensive to use).
In many rural areas, the prevailing attitude is than guns are just another tool; no more or less subject to abuse than kitchen knives or tire irons or a cutting torch- get stupid and someone gets hurt, bad in the hands of a bad person, but no more inherently evil than any other inanimate object. And they are seen, by many, as a cool thing in and of themselves, just like many other potentially dangerous instrumentalities, such as bikes, hotrods and boats. In Montana, I never heard about kids accidentally getting shot, every kid from about 6 or 8 on knows what a gun is and knows you don't point it at ANYTHING you don't intend to eat, mount on a wall or, at the least, see dead.

When someone from the 'big city' starts saying stupid things -many of the politicians who propose 'gun control' legislation know laughably little about the nomenclature, features and capabilities of civilian firearms - people who have been using them for fun and food get pissed off; and the Republicans frequently and effectively exploit that resentment. Many community leaders in the cities, who are frequently Democrats, see gun violence and induce that taking away guns from anyone other than cops and 'hunters' is a logical step to avoid the tragic deaths the see on a sometimes daily basis. The person who goes out to a friend's ranch and plinks away with surplus .223 and a mini 14 hears some 'big city' politician proposing to ban his rifle as an 'assault weapon' and considers said politician nuts.

Discussions about the MERITS of gun control belong in the Gungeon, I am here only attempting to identify a place where there are legitimate reasons for both sides to feel as they do.

[nemo137]

63. Agreed. There are at least two gun cultures in this country.

It's a big problem, because it prevents any constructive work from getting done.

[yurbud]

48. the fewer strangers you deal with, the less developed your con-man radar

Country people deal mostly with people they know, so if someone comes to town and does a good ''plain folks'' act and identifies with their values, they won't notice their pockets being picked.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. And that my friend is a stereotype

since most of the con jobs happen in cities, due to population density.. just saying.

[CRF450]

62. Tell me about it....

Since about 4 years ago where I'm at out in the country, a new trailer park with probably 40 mobile homes sprang up less than a mile away. Before that with not alot of people living in the area, anything crime related RARELY EVER happened, local sherrifs never came up this way either. But ever since that trailer park showed up and several other houses, theirs been some shit happening, vandalism, theft, even some fuckwit teenagers dumping nails in peoples driveways. I moved out of my dad's house and into one thats about a mile away, surrounded by farm fields with a few houses just over a 1/4 mile away (even my driveway is 1/4 mile long so that how far I am from the road) so I can feel at ease, atleast in that sense, I know everyone who live in the 5 house neighborhood thats a 1/4 mile away and they know me, so no problems what so ever. I barely even see that trailer park except the street lights.

Yet I fear that someday the farm land around me would one day be bought up for some damn housing project. Your right, most crimes pretty happen in cities because where there is dense populations, their are gonna be some people up to no good.

[galledgoblin]

65. the majority today are SUBURBAN

and have skewed perceptions of both urban and rural dwellers.