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Who killed Robert Kennedy and why?

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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 03:52 PM
Original message
Who killed Robert Kennedy and why?
Edited on Sun May-25-08 04:15 PM by LucyParsons
This is an earnest question.

I am 28. I was born almost exactly 11 years after his assassination. I know Sirhan Sirhan pulled the trigger, but who who was he, and why did he do it? Was he a lone crazy? That's seemed to be the consensus among people of my parents' generation that I have spoken with about it. But it seems weird to me that there has been so much focus on JFK's assassination, and that the consensus is that it was some kind of conspiracy, on the part of people who didn't like JFK's liberalism (either pro-Vietnam LBJ/military ops, or pro-communists Castro/Soviets, or the vengeful mafia who were previously his supporters, angry about RFK's prosecutions). Yet I've never really heard any - much less a lot - of speculation of RFK's assassination. He was far more revolutionary than JFK (and reminds me more of Kucinich than of Obama, but that's for another post), and so it seems to be much more obvious that The Powers That Be would want him dead.

I sense the great sorrow and emptiness among people who remember the promise that Robert Kennedy brought to Americans. But I never hear anything about WHY he was killed.

?
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. I dont know about any RFK conspiracy, but the rest of the assasinations around that time were fixed
so why not his too?

Was he a threat to any people or groups?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. He was a huge threat to Vietnam War profiteers. nt
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MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. union/mob wanted him gone, beyond that I don't know...
Edited on Sun May-25-08 04:01 PM by MnFats
...

all i know is my two lifetime heroes, Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King, were murdered within a few months of each other in 1968, the year I turned 16. talk about teen angst.
to make matters worse we then had an election between Nixon and Humphrey
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That kicks the death of Kurt Cobain's ass.
I can't imagine how idealistic I would've been at 16 if we'd had real leaders the likes of RFK and MLK in 1995. Or how devastated I would've been by their murders.
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qijackie Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. We did. The American people did it with their hatred of the "liberals" and of the "hippies".
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Skrelnick Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. Forces among the shadow gov't that controlled everything in the 60s
RFK, like MLK, was a "threat" that had to be "neutralized". At least, that's how the FBI memos referred to it.
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Bob Dobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. And still control it now.
Same guys who pulled the 11/22 job pulled the 9/11 job.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. i believe he was killed by forces within the
Edited on Sun May-25-08 04:01 PM by barbtries
american government (hoover specifically, the fbi). go to google video and look up "evidence of revision." it covers more than RFK and is worth every one of the five hours i spent a few weeks ago watching it. it's split up into five one-hour segments and i think you can go straight to the RFK slaying in part 3 or 4. i highly recommend it in its entirety, though.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Don't know how reputable this site is --
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sirhan Sirhan did not pull the trigger
He pulled "a" trigger. Sirhan was in front of RFK at all times. The bullets that killed RFK came from behind. Sirhan had one clip and emptied it. He did not reload. However, nine additional bullets were found at the scene.

Draw your own conclusions.
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ancient_nomad Donating Member (474 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. Here is a link for you....
from a DU thread:

http://tinyurl.com/5zgl6m

Will try to find more for you later.... :)
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Va Lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. The LAPD were no better in RFK murder than Dallas Police were five years earlier
I remember reading somewhere that future LAPD Chief Daryl Gates was one of the investigating detectives. I wouldn't believe anything that asshat said.
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Richard_C Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why was RFK killed?
We can't prove it but we can figure it out. Who benefited? Those who did not want RFK to be President. We know Lyndon Johnson hated the Kennedys and they hated him. We know LBJ was involved in corruption that might very well have sent him to prison if RFK had been elected (google Billie Sol Estes). We know LBJ and Nixon wanted to stay and RFK wanted to leave Vietnam. We know the military and intelligence agencies wanted Nixon or LBJ, but not RFK. After all, Vietnam was the only war they had. Not only that, but RFK made plenty of enemies in his career. There is no shortage of suspects in addition to Sirhan. All Sirhan had to do was fire wildly and make some noise; then the real gunman could have fired from some distance using a better weapon and the same kind of bullets. My guess: LBJ with the military and intelligence people working together, with or without Nixon.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. An audio tape and some photos recently came out and it seems that a couple
of CIA operatives were possibly involved.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/feb/22/kennedy.a...
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ancient_nomad Donating Member (474 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. A Bit more info with links.....
Experts: Sirhan Sirhan Did Not Kill RFK

Source: NBC

MASHANTUCKET, Conn. -- New forensics evidence presented Tuesday during a symposium at Foxwoods suggests Sirhan Sirhan did not fire the fatal shots that killed Sen. Robert Kennedy in 1968.

Experts from all over the world met Wednesday to discuss problems in crime solving during the annual symposium, hosted by the Henry C. Lee Institute of Forensic Science. This year's event was about conspiracies and solving complex crimes.

Dr. Robert Joling, a forensics investigator who has studied the Robert Kennedy assassination for almost 40 years, determined that the fatal shots must have come from behind the senator.

Sirhan, however, was 4 to 6 feet in front of Kennedy and never got close enough to shoot Kennedy from behind, the investigator said.

Read more: http://www.nbc30.com/news/15712020/detail.html


RFK ( Previously Unknown Audio )

"Discovery Times Channel Reveals Previously Unknown Audio of Robert Kennedy's Death in CONSPIRACY TEST: THE RFK ASSASSINATION.
Secret recording revealed for the first time sheds light on Kennedy's murder. Never-before-broadcast offers new evidence of a second gunman.

(...)
Key to the theory of a second shooter is an audiotape recorded by a freelance journalist at the scene that went unnoticed in an archive for decades. It is the only known recording in the world on which the gunshots can clearly be heard. CONSPIRACY TEST: THE RFK ASSASSINATION presents two tests of the recording. The first by a team of forensic audio specialists who examine a researcher's findings that suggests that the number of shots heard may have exceeded the maximum eight rounds fired by Sirhan's gun. The second test, by a firearms expert who determines if some of the shots on the recording exceed the maximum firing rate of Sirhan's 22-caliber Cadet model Iver Johnson revolver and done in such rapid succession as to question the presence of a second gunman. The shocking results may shed new light on the events of Kennedy's assassination."

http://sev.prnewswire.com/television/20070604/NEM116040 ...

"The "Second Gun" by Ted Charach is an incredible movie that points the blame to the real RFK assassin...Eugene Thane Cesar. Cesar was the security guard that was directly behind RFK at the time of the shooting. A witness saw Cesar draw his gun and fire. The witness was a reporter who immediately reported this to the television station he worked for. Cesar also worked at Lockheed and had right wing leanings and voted for George Wallace in 1968. He was on record about hating the Kennedys. Yet this man was assigned as a security guard to "protect" RFK. Thomas Naguchi, the L.A. coroner said that all 3 wounds to RFK, including the fatal head shot came from behind and to the right of the Senator. That was precisely where Cesar was. The fatal head wound was fired from a distance of 1-3 inches away from Kennedy's head. Sirhan never got closer than 3-6 feet away from RFK and was also always in front of Kennedy."

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=550


Coming soon. The entire film available for download.
"The Second Gun Expose" coming soon for download.
http://www.secondgun.com/newslband.html



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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thanks for the links Nomad
I had known that for some time but am glad someone still cares enough to document it.
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ancient_nomad Donating Member (474 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. You're Welcome....
I'm in and out and all over the place this evening. :)
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. In the RFK case, the revisionist theories are hard to believe
At the time he was shot, there were numerous RFK supporters around him -- Rosey Grier, George Plimpton, etc. Rosey helped subdue Sirhan Sirhan. So it seems implausible that someone else in the room shot him.

Sirhan Sirhan was a Palestinian Maronite Christian from East Jerusalem, who emigrated to the US at age 12. He did not adjust well, and he was very anti-Semetic, although his anti-Semitism seems motivated by nationalistic and economic rationales, and was not based on religion. In particular, he was not a Muslim.

At the time, most Jews were Democrats, since the Republicans hadn't quite let them into their country clubs just yet. RFK had expressed very strong support of Israel during his primary campaign.

The assasination was on the anniversary of the start of the Six Day War.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. And that would be a credible explanation except
there were too many bullets for just one gun and he was shot from behind.

http://cbs4.com/local/rfk.assassination.sirhan.2.725971...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. This is nonsense . . .
Edited on Mon May-26-08 12:24 AM by defendandprotect
Sirhan Sirhan was subdued and never got closer to RFK than 3 feet or further from him ---

Sirhan's gun did fire . . . that is true.

HOWEVER, thanks to Coroner Noguchi of LA, the evidence shows that the shots that killed RFK
were fired either with the gun touching his skin behind his ear or within one inch from behind.
Same with the other wound -- where the powder burns can also be seen on his jacket.
This can only happen when the gun is almost touching the victim or his clothing.

Sirhah, Sirhan was never --- NEVER --- close enough to RFK to have inflicted these wounds.

CAESAR was directly behind RFK and was seen drawing his gun and shooting ---

Again, we see the CIA version of psychological/lone gunman -- it was a lie in the case of Oswald
who was employed by the CIA working on high level assignments --- trained to spy in Russia ---
and probably also worked for the FBI -- and it's a lie in the case of Sirhan, as well.
If you can turn a CIA agent into a "patsy," imagine what you can do with an immigrant like Sirhan!





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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's almost impossible for today's young people to imagine the complete lack of security
in those days. A few visible body guards, a few feds, but like the Oswald shooting, any looney tune could gain entrance to any event. And did. The Ambassador was teeming with folks who were way too close to RFK. No one was in charge.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Jack Ruby said, on camera, that Johnson had JFK killed
and Johnson's long-term mistress said he told her it was the Texas Oil and Gas men and the mafia (who had acted as CIA hit men for decades.) This mistress is on record saying that she met Jack Ruby in the 1950s - she was intro'd to him by one of LBJ's lawyers. Ruby was a mob informant to testified before HUAC. Nixon claimed Ruby worked for him at the time.

Ruby on camera fingering Johnson
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jack+ruby&sitesea...

One of Johnson's law firm's partner, Barr McClellan, stated Johnson's personal lawyer said Johnson was behind the assassination.

E. Howard Hunt's deathbed confession also fingered LBJ.

Sam Giancana said both LBJ and Nixon knew about the assassination before the fact. He was murdered just before he was going to testify in the reopened House Select Committee on Assassination. His murder was at leasts 6 shots in the mouth/head which is supposed to be for someone who "talks too much."

The House Select Committee on Assassination, that convened in the 1970s, concluded there was a conspiracy and that there was more than one shooter.
---
As others noted here, the LA Coroner did a comprehensive autopsy on RFK and said the bullet that killed RFK was just a few inches from the back of his head and Sirhan never got that close... and he was in front. The Coroner was fired b/c of this finding.
----

I don't know specifics about setting up fall guys for political hits, etc. but I do know that a hoped-for attempt to assassinate JFK in Chicago, just before Dallas, was scrubbed b/c the guy who was supposed to be the fall guy was arrested with guns in the trunk of his car. The Miami assassination attempt was also scrubbed b/c JFK learned of it via an informant and so he didn't do the same open car drive that he later did in Dallas within the next month.

I used to think all those murders in the 1960s were just coincidence but i don't anymore. I've learned about too many other assassinations our govt has organized, too much other extra-govt. CIA "wet ops," too many ties between people like Ruby, Oswald, Ferrie, Shaw, the mob... just too many coincidences to make that the "simple explanation" anymore because then you have to contort all these relationships based upon mutual right wing/criminal goals between criminals as just luck.

Don Hewitt, long-time producer of 60 Minutes, also thought the murder of JFK was a conspiracy, as did Robert NcNeil of McNeil/Lehrer report. Both were there.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. You should run this as a separate thread --- everyone at DU should see this ---
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jack+ruby&sitesea...

I hadn't seen this particular one before . . .
though I was aware that Ruby was suggesting LBJ --
LBJ's mistress is Madeline Brown and her video is on YouTube ---
Just mentioning so anyone reading your post can find it there --

Madeline Brown's explanation that planning for the assassination of JFK began two years before
the hit is quite telling ---

And, yes, of course the oil industry were involved --- LBJ/oil/Mafia/Murchison --- all connected
long, long time ---


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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. This won't give any answers but YouTube has video of that day
Edited on Sun May-25-08 07:46 PM by rainbow4321
There is part 1 with the speech...the remaining parts have the shooting aftermath. Chilling to watch. Gives an idea of the crowds/chaos, etc....part 2 shows how at first the crowd was unaware of what happened and were still cheering his name...then news spread thru the crowd about what had just happened. The rest are newsreels of TV coverage afterwards.

Video # 2, at about 2 minute mark...has audio of 911 delaying sending an ambulance!



If someone didn't despise HRC for her comment beforehand, they should after watching these video clips.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=vXuHcQ1Mrqs


http://youtube.com/watch?v=ae7H0aWFWNY&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dHW5UWNKvIE&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wiCN03Qa3-A&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L4EmJIfpupI&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8MQiMh5888Q&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dev1bNjAFLM&feature=related



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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. Donald Schulman, of KNXT Television...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Another great video/link which should have its own thread . . .
Edited on Mon May-26-08 12:48 AM by defendandprotect
Interesting that in introducing the evidence from the Cornoner --- long delayed in corporate-media --- the newscast suggests that it's "theory" --- !!!

As Americans begin to understand the political violence we have suffered in America and the
consequences of it --- fascism -- I trust they will understand this overall --- not just as
one assassination but multiple assassinations which, btw, have continued on ---

Thanks!




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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
24. Go to YouTube . . . there are a couple of great videos/explanations there . . .
Edited on Mon May-26-08 12:16 AM by defendandprotect
basically the CIA at least played a major role in the actual doing of the deed ---
See Joanides/CIA in LA hotel ballroom ---
Looks like there were at least two shooters --- one being the security guard --- Caesar....
Another, I don't think yet identified but witnesses did see another shooter besides Caesar ---

Now, if you mean who actually gives the orders, that would be powerful and wealthy people in America who want exploitive capitalism/corporatism to continue on --
Actually, the "Establishment" is a conspiracy --

Presumably, the people who killed JFK --- a quite open act of political violence in our not so distant past --- are the same people who killed RFK and MLK, Jr. -- etal.
And who have had the power to keep the cover up going ---
That meant having the presidency --- LBJ.

And buying Senators/Reps and keeping them in place who would protect them and their positions ---
and cover-up. Plus targeting those representatives who work in the interests of "all the people."














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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
27. The people who killed JFK, i.e., CIA, SS, Nixon, and LBJ
for starters. Why? Because they knew that if RFK won California, he would have won the white house, and would have finally had the power to fully investigate his brother's murder and put the perps -- well known to him -- on trial. Kablooey, next thing you know, tricky Dick is president.

David Sirota's "Brothers" (came out last summer) is a good book on this subject.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Bush should certainly be included there, but a less visible player, perhaps --- ?
I always thought it would have appealed to E. Howard Hunt's imagination to run this as an
Agatha Christie mysteery --- all those in favor having an actual presence at the scene of the
crime --- certainly most of them were there --- !!!


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