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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:28 PM
Original message
In 1960 a gallon of gas was 25 cents...in 1970 a gallon of gas was
Edited on Thu May-22-08 04:29 PM by Raven
36 cents...in 1980 a gallon of gas was $1.19...in 1990 a gallon of gas was $1.34. By 1999 a gallon of gas was $1.22. GWB took office in 2000 and I paid $3.76 for a gallon of gas today.

Interesting. Depressing. Infuriating. Why are we not demonstrating in the streets? Perhaps we will when we can't afford to drive.

I found these statistics at www.thepeoplehistory.com
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why Can't We Just Organize A Day When The Whole Of The U.S. Just Stays Home.....
the day the U.S. stood still? We need to have a massive groundroots strike.
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taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. We should call for a nationwide strike this Monday
Tell people not to go to work that day.

I'll bet we could get millions to participate.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
42. It would likely take several weeks to organize
I don't think you could do it a day or two before a holiday weekend and expect a ton of participants
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. I already suggested that twice before on other
threads. I got no response. :shrug:


It would grind this country to a halt! But, like I said, I got no response.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. You Do Get Responses - But They Are Smart Ass Responses Like That Of......
"taterguy's" #16 response.

We just keep bending over and letting the oil companies and *Co stick it to us and we keep taking it. Somehow, somewhere we have to make a stand and do something for ourselves to force the issue. Perhaps it's voting in the General Election. But there's a lot of time between now and November - and they are just going to keep up the 'shoving'.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Thank you for your response! LOL
I truly had forgotten about that 'response'!
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taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Just for the record I don't bend over and take it
I use a bicycle for most transportation and only have relations with oil companies when I'm in the mood.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I do applaud you taterguy!
If it was safe to ride a bike down here, I would ride one, too.

They try to run over you down here in MS.
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taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. People try to run you over everywhere
The trick is not giving them the opportunity.

Or maybe the trick is subtly convincing them that it's not worth the effort.

How "safe" do you think it is to ride a bike in Dale Earnhardt's home state? :)
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
48. whenever this gets proposed,
Edited on Fri May-23-08 07:29 AM by datasuspect
the reactionaries and closet freepers come out to diminish and ridicule the prospect of direct, popular action.

ya follow me?

strikes worked for our grandfathers and grandmothers.

the next time you see a thread where someone proposes what you propose, ask yourself "why are there people who would be against it?"

if you've had enough of being bled to death and the least you could do was stay home for one day in solidarity with as many americans as possible, what would it hurt?

and it would be damn effective. reactionaries/fascists/oligarchs/monarchs despise and fear the "mob" revolting. the last thing they want is for the mass of people to communicate with each other and work together as a united movement.

the conservative backlash that has occurred in this country since the end of vietnam is testimony to this. that's why they keep advancing the idea that protesting is ineffective; that's why they rewrite history. it's because protesting and riots during the 1960s was very effective: it scared the living shit out of authority and they dumbed us down to make sure it never happens again.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. Well, I'm Not Conservative Or Reactionary
But, i do believe that Americans are too independent minded to organize a broad-based general strike. That's just not who americans are anymore. It's got nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. I just don't believe that people could be organized to take such focused action en masse.

The Professor
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. americans are like sheep
if you can get them to hate or fear something, they turn into putty.

advertising can get millions of people to vote on american idol.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Then We Disagree
Voting on American Idol requires no sacrifice, even for one minute, let alone a day.

And when i say americans are independent minded, i don't mean that as a value judgment. They think they're smart enough to make their own decisions, whether they are or not, and are prone to reject being told what to do if they don't see it as immediately beneficial.

I don't think it's possible to organize americans into making a significant statement or a critical sacrifice. A few, sure. But not enough to have the seismic impact required.
GAC
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. it starts from the bottom
if people start hurting enough, they will start burning things.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. That's Rioting,Not Organized Protest
And on that point, i agree with you. But, burning things out of anger is rioting, and it's chaotic, and it's not organized to achieve any single gain.

Such a natural reaction to "enough is enough" very well could occur. I just said that one cannot organize that type of activity. If it happens, it will be a natural boil-over, just like the riots in the 60's in Watts, Detroit, Chicago, Boston, etc. Those weren't organized by anyone. They just happened because people had endured more than they could anymore.


GAC
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #59
81. true
Edited on Fri May-23-08 02:04 PM by datasuspect
people are getting hit on all sides and there is no effective recourse or relief being proposed by our owners.

i think our owners bank on the populace being stultified by television and consumerism: as long as people can escape, they won't confront the ugly reality.

but if they keep putting the screws to the majority of people, i think a breaking point might be reached.

riots are effective in one way: they really grab the attention of "Authority."

the difference between now and the 1960s is that police forces have changed from constabulary to paramilitary shock troops.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #53
64. interesting comment
"if you can get them to hate or fear something, they turn into putty".



it is all about controlling the masses with these thugs in abuse of power, can we somehow rise about that kind of thinking, and think clearly and learn not to panic (hard to do), cause we are just feeding them with our insecurities, and this is what they are hoping for, that we just fall in line.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #64
82. it is the totality of the control
the system is set up to internalize a police force in your head from the time you go to kindergarten until you get your slot in a major corporation.

people seem to care less about what benefits them the most and would rather ensure the well-being of the mechanisms of control that our owners subject us to.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #48
89. What would such a demonstration accomplish?
The fundamentals of the law of supply and demand aren't going to change because a lot people filled the streets.

In real terms, the price of gas isn't much higher than what the OP stated the 1980 price was.
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reformedrethug Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
52. I have given this some thought, and here is what I have come up with:
Does this stay home day include doctors, nurses, hospital staff?
Does it include police/fire/ambulance crews?
Does this include airline pilots/crews?

So if somebody has a heart attack they are just supposed to die because there is no way to get to the hospital, and even if they did there would be nobody there to take care of them?

What about transplant patients whos lives depend on planes, pilots, doctors, nurses, etc...??

What about that convience store clerk that does not get vacation and is already barely making it? Are you going to pay them a days wages to stay home?

I could keep going but I think I made my point.

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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #52
61. This is what it would look like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_General_Strike_of_...

Life during the strike

A cooperative body made up of rank and file workers from all the striking locals was formed during the strike, called the General Strike Committee. It acted as a "virtual counter-government for the city" (Brecher), somewhat akin to the Paris Commune in 1871. The workers in the committee organized to provide essential services for the people of Seattle during the work stoppage. For instance, garbage that would create a health hazard was collected, and firemen remained on duty. Exemptions to the stoppage of labor had to be passed by the Strike Committee. In general, work was not halted if doing so would endanger lives.

In other cases, workers acted on their own initiative to create new institutions rather than simply continuing the old. Milk wagon drivers, after being denied the right by their employers to keep certain dairies open, established a distribution system containing thirty-five neighborhood milk stations. A system of food distribution was also established, which throughout the strike committee distributed as many as thirty thousand meals each day. Strikers paid twenty five cents per meal, and the general public paid thirty five cents. Beef stew, spaghetti, bread, and coffee were offered free of charge.

Army veterans created an alternative to the police in order to keep the peace. The "Labor War Veteran's Guard," as it was called, forbade the use of force and did not carry weapons; it was policy "to use persuasion only." As it happened, peacekeeping was unnecessary: no arrest was made by traditional police forces in actions related to the strike, and general arrests dropped to less than half of normal. Major General John F. Morrison, stationed in Seattle, claimed that he had never seen "a city so quiet and orderly." A poem in the Union Record reads, in part:

What scares them most is
That NOTHING HAPPENS!
They are ready
For DISTURBANCES.
They have machine guns
And soldiers,
But this SMILING SILENCE
Is uncanny.

Nina DeMarcia


The methods of organization adopted by the striking workers bore resemblance to anarcho-syndicalism, perhaps reflecting the influence of the Industrial Workers of the World in the Pacific Northwest (though only a few striking locals were officially affiliated with the IWW). The radicalism of events was certainly conscientious; both workers and their opponents saw the situation as a prelude to revolution. The Seattle Union Record, in an editorial by Anna Louise Strong, attempted to analyze the historical significance of the general strike:

The closing down of Seattle's industries, as a MERE SHUTDOWN, will not affect these eastern gentlemen much. They could let the whole northwest go to pieces, as far as money alone is concerned.

But, the closing down of the capitalistically controlled industries of Seattle, while the workers organize to feed the people, to care for the babies and the sick, to preserve order--this will move them, for this looks too much like the taking over of power by the workers.

Labor will not only Shut Down the industries, but Labor will reopen, under the management of the appropriate trades, such activities as are needed to preserve public health and public peace. If the strike continues, Labor may feel led to avoid public suffering by reopening more and more activities.

UNDER ITS OWN MANAGEMENT.

And that is why we say that we are starting on a road that leads--no one knows where!

Seattle's mayor concurred with the conclusion that the general strike was a revolutionary event but admitted this with regret: "The so-called sympathetic Seattle strike was an attempted revolution. That there was no violence does not alter the fact . . . The intent, openly and covertly announced, was for the overthrow of the industrial system; here first, then everywhere . . . True, there were no flashing guns, no bombs, no killings. Revolution, I repeat, doesn't need violence. The general strike, as practised in Seattle, is of itself the weapon of revolution, all the more dangerous because quiet. To succeed, it must suspend everything; stop the entire life stream of a community . . . That is to say, it puts the government out of operation. And that is all there is to revolt -- no matter how achieved."
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reformedrethug Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. The world of 1919
is ALOT different than the world of 2008 and what worked back then may not work today. We are in a totally different mindset today than back then. Back then unions were gaining strength, today they are losing strength.

Also your post, while a good one does not address the issues that lower income individuals face today, the loss of 1 days pay can cause some of them not to be able to afford gas in their cars to get to that low paying job, etc...

I agree something needs done but the problem is figuring out what can be done that will hurt the oil companies but not the working individual. See what I am trying to say here?
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. Yep.
It was just a little post to people who may not've even heard of the Seattle General Strike, to show that such things have happened, and what general direction they might take.

I daresay low income workers back then would've been WORSE off from striking than today's McJob workers. Everything was a lot more expensive, because we didn't have a bunch of goods with artificially cheap prices, thanks to Chinese slave labor.
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reformedrethug Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #63
67.  Agreed
but also back then society was more worker oriented than today when it came to the general population and people were more willing to help out their neighbors if they could unlike today.
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. Yes, I think those pics of people doling out free soup
are almost alien to most Americans today. Especially the post-WWII folks, who don't remember the national mood during the war, even, much less the great organizing and strikes of the 30s, the Great War, the 1890s...
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #62
74. not just the one day of pay, but the chance of losing your job too.
keep 'em ignorant, and keep 'em poor. That's how they control us.
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
58. That's called a general strike.
That would bring on "the revoution".

People aren't nearly that desperate (or organized, or aware of labor history) yet.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
60. we may will be if no one can't get anywhere.
what more can they do to us, isn't everyone tired of bending over for these thugs?
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. They probably can't afford to drive to the streets.
:) Seriously though, when are people gonna get pissed and not take it anymore. And who are these lame brain conservatives that defend this crap?
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
65. maybe not significant to say but I hate their clear disdain towards
the American people, not all of us are ignorant to the facts.
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Bob Dobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. We won't be able to afford the gas to drive to the demonstration.
We won't be able to afford the gas to drive the bus to throw the power elite under.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Then we must throw them under the skateboard!
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Bob Dobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. Now that's a skateboard!
I would start skateboard commuting with that thing.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
77. I knew a SubGenius would appreciate a giant skateboard
Praise "Bob"!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. I remember when I was a teenager, buying a $1 worth of gas, 4 gals.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 04:33 PM by Blue State Native
:woohoo: Oh and my first car was a Corvair. :rofl:
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bush took office actually in January 2001, otherwise all of your other information is correct
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Sorry, and thanks for the correction! How could I possible give
GWB one more year than he should have had!
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
45. I know you did not do that, but very often we forget that the 1st Tuesday in November
...is the election, but the winner is not officially president until he is sworn in on inauguration day. However in 2000 the election results were a tie after 49 states were counted and Florida was in limbo because of contested vote counts, fraudulent machine ballots, voter suppression and so forth. Ultimately the U.S. Supreme Count had to rule and gave the election to Bush in December 2000. Even so, Bush would not take office until sworn in the following month.

<snip>
Summary of the Bush/Gore Dispute in the U.S. Presidential Election, 2000

In November 2000, the election for the President of the United States was one of the closest in the United States history. Both parties were aware of the trend within three months before. During that time, many polls continued to fluctuate, showing candidates Bush and Gore ahead at different times, usually within the statistical margin of error. Neither party, however, expected the outcome to be as close as it did. The outcome of the election was not known until five weeks after the election.

While outcomes were close in quite a few states, (New Mexico, Oregon, Wisconsin, Iowa and New Hampshire-- all within less than seven thousand), the one in question was Florida, a state that had enough electoral votes (25) to determine the election. Election 2000 would become the first election since 1888 where there was a difference between the popular vote and the electoral vote-- Vice President Al Gore leading Governor George W. Bush by a little over 500,000 votes while Governor George W. Bush leading Vice President Al Gore in the Electoral College by four votes (271-267). The state of Florida being the one to decide was made even more dramatic as Jeb Bush, George W. Bush's brother, was its governor. Furthermore, Florida was probably the most campaigned state by both candidates as polls there continued to show Gore with a slight lead (but always within the margin of error). To make the certainty of the winner of Florida even more blurry, broadcast networks declared Al Gore the winner earlier in the evening, retracted, and then later declared Bush the winner as well as the winner of the Presidency before again, retracting.

The outcome first revealed that out of more than six million votes cast in Florida, Bush led by a slim margin of around 1700 votes. After a machine recount required by Florida law, the margin slipped to below 500. Vice President Al Gore filed a protest and later a contest to the election through the Courts, asking for a hand recount in selected Florida counties that leaned Democratic. The grounds for both the protest and contest was that these counties: Palm Beach, Broward, Miami Dade, and Volusia was that these four had signs of voting irregularities. Irregularites included the quality of the voting tabulation machines and also that certain types of ballots could possibly be misread by machines. While the media highly featured a particular ballot used in Palm Beach County that some voters claimed confused them to vote for a third party candidate, Pat Buchanan, when they intended to vote for Gore, the main type of ballot that was in question was the punch card ballot. The punch card ballot is one where the voter uses a stylus to punch holes, marking their choices. At times the "chad," the piece of paper that is punched may be left hanging, or may still be so attached that only an indentation is left (a "dimple"). Florida Secretary of State, Katherine Harris, insisting on a Florida statute deadline for certification of the voting tally and questioning whether counties can conduct a hand recount, continued to block efforts of counties conducting a hand count. Democrats questioned the Republican Secretary of State's motives as she was also the co-chair of the Bush campaign in Florida.
<MORE>

http://www.chabotcollege.edu/Library/handouts/election2...
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. A gallon was 29 cents where I lived in 1968
And the minimum wage was $1.60. A teenager could buy more than 5 gallons of gas for one hour of work at a part-time minimum wage job after school. How many gallons of gas can a young kid pay for with one hour of work in a minimum wage job today?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. 1.4 @ 5.15/hr.
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Gato Moteado Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. interesting way to look at it!
it sure brings things into perspective.

and it ain't just gasoline. you could probably buy 10 heads of lettuce for $1.60 back in 68. how many can you buy for the $5 or so an hour minimum wage nowadays?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Yes, but today's minimum wage has a lot less buying power than it did in the '70s
I've heard that people could actually pay rent on minimum wage in the past.
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Gato Moteado Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. yes, that's exactly the point i was trying to make.....
....go back and read my post again.
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mach2 Donating Member (164 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. In 1960 oil was bringing 20 bucks a barrel, too.
But regardless of that...what would (could) we hope to make happen by going to the streets? What exactly is the political/industrial mechanism that would cause a significant drop in gasoline price? My question isn't just rhetorical, it's very real.
:shrug:
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jbonkowski Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. You are being deceptive, intentionally or otherwise
You have left inflation out of the picture.

25 cents in 1960 is about $1.75 today.

$1.19 in 1980 is the equivalent of $3.36 today.

The price historically is not really all that high. Certainly not as bad as you are making it sound.

We just got spoiled in the 90s.

jeb
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Very misleading. Controlling for inflation...
1960 $1.42 in 2007 dollars
1970 $1.48
1980 $2.61
1990 $1.96
2000 $1.46
2008 $3.83


Very dramatic increase, yes, but not on the order originally stated.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Oh, thanks for the correction, that makes it lots better. ?
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. No, but it makes it more meaningful nt
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Very misleading back at ya'
Edited on Thu May-22-08 05:23 PM by nichomachus
All these corrected-for-inflation accounts don't, in fact, account for urban sprawl and don't take into consideration that people need to drive much further. In 1972, I lived in a small city, 50,000 people. I lived downtown. My office was six blocks from my house, and the shopping area was a four-block walk, as were a couple of places I used to drop in to have a drink. There were two movie theaters within six blocks of my house. I walked everywhere, unless I needed to go out of town.

Then, urban sprawl hit. My office moved to an office park on the outskirts of town, and the shopping area was now a mall at the other side of town. The downtown bars closed for lack of business. The movie theaters closed after the megaplex opened 10 miles away. The downtown business area collapsed and the druggies moved in -- as I moved out.

Then, my formerly pedestrian (literally) existence ended and I was driving everywhere I went -- from home, to work, to home, to the mall, to the bar, to home, to the movies, etc.

So, while the price of gas might not have been as dramatic, my consumption of it increased dramatically - all due to circumstances beyond my control.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Not to mention the wholly inaccurate published inflation rates.
There's always a few of these status quo warriors that spring up, they'll be gone after the elections.



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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Reporting apples/apples makes me status quo? Good grief, that's stupid of you.
That is fucking idiotic and ironic: I'm sure you think I have my head in the sand, whereas I'm SURE you have yours there.

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #40
70. Blah, blah, blah, back to your bridge.
You post these lies, using demonstrably false figures, and then accuse anyone that calls you on it of doing exactly what you are doing. Hmmm, now where have I seen this strategy implemented before?




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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. I used the OP's numbers and the same price deflator used by...everyone
If they're "false" then YOU demonstrate their falsity. If you have another deflator, fine. If you have other retail prices, wonderful.

I suppose anything that doesn't support what you want to believe is a "lie." Quite an intellect you're packing there.

I suggest you visit Amazon, purchase an economics text, and pay special attention to the part where they show you how to adjust for inflation.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. OK I'll play for a bit.
Go look at this site, then if you have the means and the desire, you can go to Weeden and subscribe to access their white papers wherein the governmental falsification of essential economic indicators such as inflation, GDP, unemployment, etc., going back to the Kennedy administration, are thoroughly documented by the government itself.


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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
You're one of THOSE. Nevermind.

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #85
90. Yes, one of these.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Let's see who the moron is
Go to, oh, every economics department in the United States with the OP's post and say, "gee, professors...I'd like to see how these nominal gas prices
compare in constant dollars. I'm too dumb to do it myself; can you do it for me?"

First, they'd refer you to the freshmen taking Econ 101. Then they'd all give you more or less the same answer, depending on
whether they use monthly, quarterly, or annual price deflators.

You and your websites are a special case of the adage that you can prove anything with statistics, so long as you move the goalposts wherever you happen to need them at the moment.


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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
41. Those factors affected the price of a gallon then and now.
Unless you want to estimate the social cost of gasoline consumption...
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. The true measure
is "How long do you work each week to put gas in your car." Any other measures are relatively meaningless, as numbers change.

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BigDaddy44 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
55. Cars are immensely more fuel efficient than they were in 1972 also
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. Still, it praise for Bill Clinton
Edited on Thu May-22-08 06:01 PM by rock
and an indictment for *.
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NoGOPZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
79. Great! Those figures are even worse for Bush.
Makes his admin stand out even more.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. If, by making data comparable, I appear to defend or support Bush, I regret it
Jesus effin Christ.

Even after calibrating the data and finding the result to be as expected, you still get raked over the coals.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. find out the price curve from the day W deregulated the Speculators/hedge funders he deregulated
Edited on Thu May-22-08 04:53 PM by sam sarrha
speculation on food last year.. we need a time line of his presidency
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
37. What in the world are you talking about?
What deregulation of speculators?
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. it wouldnt do any good, they pat very little tax, i think 17%, roll the profits into more cant lose
bids.. with the leverage of the hedgefunds.. they are like a bunch of F'n monkeys at a salad bar.. every penny they make comes out of our pocket
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #37
47. HERE IS A LINK.... to speculation>>>
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #47
84. I understand what speculation is.
Anyone who buys one share of stock is speculating. But there has been no regulation or deregulation on "speculation" and that is what I was asking about.
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. I paid 19 cents a gallon
in 1963 to gas up my first car - a VW Beetle. It was at a Sinclair station in Vincennes Indiana (I stopped there to buy my first tank of gas because I liked their sign with the green dinosaur on it.) A kid thing I guess.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Bush Junta history, gas price tripled! That's so far!!!
What was the price on 2000.12.12, Junta Day?
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. Raven, you're absolutely right!
It is infuriating! It is so hard not to believe that two oilmen in the WH have nothing to do with these horribly high prices! ANd if one didn't believe that, there's the fact that the Iraq War has bankrupted our economy and crashed the dollar, so it's fucked all around. But I truly believe that those oil tycoons bought GW the prez, and now they are all getting filthy rich, most likely putting it all in overseas banks, so it can't be traced so easily.
Watch those prices go down gradually(so it's not obvious) once the Dems take over! So much just HAS to improve!!!
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. Oh, how well I remember THAT! I turned 16 in 1959, and at 25
my Dad was complaining that it was too expensive! I remember looking at the station signs and saying "Hey, I can afford that! I can get 4 gal. for $1.00!" Of course, I also remember several years later, married with 1 kid, having a grocery budget of $10 a week too! BTW, that included cigaretts @ 25 a pack and Similac formula! Boy, have things changed!
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
23. We are being raped by the very people who put Bush in office, are you suprised?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yep, and marijuana was 10 bucks a lid n/t
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
25. In 1960 a 25-cent coin was made of 90% silver
Today a silver quarter is worth about $2.50.

Everything has gone up since 1960. Gasoline just a little more than other things.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Well, I need gas, not silver, to get to work to pay for the gas. Get it?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. The car you drive now probably gets 2x the mileage as one you would have owned in 1960
I don't see your point.
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Thirtieschild Donating Member (978 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #28
72. Not necessarily
In 1960 we drove a Renault Dauphine, got at least 50 mph. Of course it wasn't the safest car on the road. It was totaled when a woman backing out of our driveway put the car in drive instead of reverse, knocked the Dauphine into the house and totaled it. She couldn't have been going more than two or three miles an hour.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Wow - Wouldn't it be cool to have a Dauphine that age in running condition?
I always thought they were cool, but not as cool as a Citroen ID19.



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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #72
87. The Dauphine had a tendency to roll in a steep turn
It didn't have a well-designed suspension. I preferred the Renault 4CV that preceeded it, which got even better gas mileage, or the R8 which followed it.





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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
35. The Business Plot has finally succeeded.
All it took was 75 years of dumbing down the sheeple and replacing a military coup with a slow-boil followed by a judicial coup.



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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
43. Peanut prices doubled while Carter was president.
'Tis true. Look it up.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
49. I remember the gas wars when gas was in the teens.
Those days will never return.
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
57. This IS NOT GWB's fault!
Blame goes to every President from Reagan onward. GWB has just been the icing on the cake. Clinton gets a good share of blame. He did little to nothing to advance energy independence. In fact, he was a cheerleader for the rise of SUVs. CAFE standards went nowhere, except perhaps down, during his eight years.

Blame also goes to the American people. We want everything and we want it cheap. No sacrifice, no conservation. Yes, ExxonMobil is profiting to an obscene degree. Perhaps GWB gets some blame for not supporting a windfall profits tax. But he did not create this problem. We all did, through ignorance, apathy, and delusion.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #57
66. The invasion of Iraq was to control the price of oil.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #57
68. there is enough blame to spread around
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #57
78. Is the value of the dollar a factor in the price of oil?
Edited on Fri May-23-08 01:19 PM by aint_no_life_nowhere
If it is, isn't there something Bush could have done to prevent the dollar from losing more than half its value since he came into office? I'm talking about this government's policy of lowering interest rates and engaging in excessive borrowing and deficit spending to fund insane wars of conquest. Supposedly, the lowering of interest rates is killing the dollar, as foreign investors don't want to own it. But lowered interest rates were actively pushed for by ChimpCo through the Fed because they need to borrow, borrow, borrow in order to fund their militaristic adventures.

Maybe other Presidents share some blame. Maybe the American public does as well. But what's happened under Bush is extraordinary. Oil has more than quadrupled in price under Bush. Is it just coincidence that this sudden and rapid increase which has taken everyone by surprise occurs at the same time that the U.S. dollar takes a plunge?
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
71. I encourage the Teamsters to strike over the $4.79 they pay for diesel and bring the country to a
halt to force our "representatives" to pay attention.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #71
83. too bad they busted the unions
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class2068 Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
73. Ah, the good old days
In 1967 you could go out for less than one dollar. Twenty-nine cents bought a gallon of gas for my old Chevy, enough to take me into town and back. At Burger Chef a burger, fries, and a Coke cost thirty-five cents. I'd arrive back in my dorm room with thirty-six cents left in my pocket.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
88. Hey, adjusted for inflation, that 1960 gallon of gas...
Edited on Fri May-23-08 07:30 PM by davekriss
...cost...well... $1.81. Hey, another Republican success story! They managed to more than double the real cost of a commodity, swelling the profits of a corporate elite by more than 100%! Great job, Bushie boy!!!

(When will America finally have had its fill?)
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