I miss Republicans.

[weezy2736]

There, I said it.

I think it's important to have a worthy foe, one who fights on common terms and has respect for you. It may be hard to remember 9 years ago, before the primary season started in '99, but that was a fight worth having, a fight to make the country a better place. More and more, I feel now like we are fighting for our survival, and I don't know if liberalism and progressivism alone can save us. One party will never be able to cater to an entire country, nor should it, but I'm not sure if there is a party for us to push back against right now.

What happens now? How do we, as Democrats, justify helping Republicans?

For our own good, we should invest time in the opposition party, not as spies or traitors, but as helping hands to guide them to an identity that we may not agree with but we can live with. We all know how much fun it is to argue with someone who disagrees, but how many of us are willing to help that person find a place for them to express their ideas? They have the same rights as us, we must be careful not to tread on theirs like they have done to us. We are becoming a clear majority again, and with that comes a responsibility we have never had since this board was opened (not to say that we have a responsibility to frame what we say here through a Republican eye, I love my liberal enclave just the way it is :)).

For the good of the country, we can't treat others like they treated us, and we must remember how we were treated so as to make sure we don't fall to those levels. This isn't the popular thing to do, nor is it easy, but I believe with all my heart that it is the right thing to do.

[Cooley Hurd]

1. I hate Republicans!

They stand for greed
that’s unrestrained by shame or pity.
They own the factory,
the penthouse in the city.
They pledge allegiance to
their friends with lots of dollars.
They concentrate the wealth
and they disregard the squalor.

(Chorus)

I hate Republicans.
I hate Republicans, baby,
I can’t stand those Republicans.
I hate that old Republican party.

Their self-esteem is high,
they feel no obligation.
They put their faith and trust
in God and corporations.

They stand for piety
that doesn’t suffer rivals.
They’re waving flags and guns
and quoting from the Bible.

(Chorus)

Comrades, arise now,
while there’s something left to save.
Fight for a future
where not everything is paved.
Though they are likely to prevail,
all creation insists
that we strive to resist
the Republicans.

They stand to profit from
the mess they’re engineering,
the new world
order of unbridled profiteering.

(Chorus)

http://www.thehappytones.com/lyrics.htm

[izquierdista]

2. Work on your aim.

[weezy2736]

4. I aim for the long term.

I find fights that are worth fighting. I'd much rather face a party with some compass to it than a neo-con party. I'm talking of ending that, if that isn't blue enough...

[Solly Mack]

3. better angels, heal the nation, for the good of the country

someone get Lee Hamilton on the phone

[angstlessk]

5. I do not want a one party system..but he repukes have gone beyond

being a political party and have become a destructive force in America...time for maybe a Whig party??

[weezy2736]

6. Anything but the oposition we have now.

Radicals don't fight with reason.

[angstlessk]

16. eggactly! an opposition who is a 'loyal' opposition LOYAL TO THE CONSTITUTION

our norms and all we have stood for (at least in public) for the last 200 years (leaving out that blacks/women could not vote and all that slavery and stuff)!!

[weezy2736]

37. Bingo!

I'd hoped there were still some level headed people out there.

[Breeze54]

7. I fucking HATE RethugliCONS!!!

:grr:

BTW? Did they all leave the "homeland" today?!? :woohoo:

It's a free for all!! :D

Wait.... they did that already! :grr:

[nels25]

8. I agree with this post

I may be a canary in a coal mine, but I just can not forget how we as a party have felt by being rolled over willy nilly with no regard by the GOP for the better part of 14 years (I count from when the GOP first gained the House). WE WERE NOT HAPPY!!

How impossibly stupid can we be to make the same mistakes the GOP did, and not expect the same results.

Do we really expect the Republican party to dry up and blow away because we win a big election??

Such hubris, the GOP will lose no question, and the large loss will ensure a period of introspection and rebuilding, bet on it.

But hey hate is where it is at by so many on the DU that it saddens me.

I am refraining from some participation since I am so very tired of hating.

Hate takes a lot out of you, take it from me I know from personal experience.

I have Republican friends how are not bad people, but when I encourage them to read some more progressive sites they come to me after doing so asking how long they will be allowed to exist before being sent to a re-education camp or stood up against a wall in front of a machine gun.

You think I am kidding you should check some of the vitriol that just oozes from certain posts.

Frankly I am afraid to post against it because I will be judged insufficiently progressive and supportive of the Democratic party and banned from DU.

AND I DO NOT WANT TO BE BANNED.

I agree with the poster we are becoming a majority again at least in the short term how long that remains will be determined by how we govern.

We can be and should be a liberal/progressive site as DU has designated, but the hate needs to cease.

One last question for those who read my post to ponder.

Is it possible for a person who used to be vote and be very Republican to look at the nation and find it not acceptable and desire to support progressive positions?

If it is, is this person a so called traitor??

I was under the understanding that we wanted to increase the size of our party not replicate the Rove philosophy of 50% plus 1.

[weezy2736]

10. I think I made a new friend!

I think it's normal for people to change their minds, especially when new facts or scenarios are presented to them. We must learn not to be bitter.

[nels25]

22. Thank You Weezy - I am proud to be your new friend

I have personal experience with bitterness and hate and I am here to tell you it can eat you alive, it can invade your soul, and it can in some cases kill you (and believe me I know where of I speak, but I do not believe this is the proper forum to explain).

I have gotten help and I can state without qualm that being calm and rational (not to say that some posters are not) makes for a superior life.

Also I grew up in a Democrat filled city and neighborhood, and then joined the USN.

Believe me it is extremely easy to become very conservative in the armed forces.

It took me almost 10 years to shake it.

I am to some degree a reformed Republican (the last one I voted for was Bush one in 88 while I was still on active duty) I have so very many friends (many from my USN days) who have supported the GOP in the past (I have never believed that the term Neo-con would apply to them) and see the nation today as completely screwed up and want to support the Democrats (and believe or not to a large degree Obama) but when they go to read on progressive sites they fell insulted.

None of my friends are or have ever been Nazi's fascist or some of the other garbage that is flung around with no discretion.

Because they are my friends I hope/believe that I can persuade most of them to vote for Barack instead of McCain.

But could we please lay off the hate.

[Breeze54]

11. I have 604, 079 + a couple of million reasons to hate their guts!

:grr:

http://icasualties.org/oif/

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Cease this! :grr:

[weezy2736]

14. That was Bush and the neo-cons.

1/3 of Americans are still in the party and many of them don't like Bush at all, many of those won't join us. I don't want them backing Bush. Is your plan just to hate until they're back in power?

[Breeze54]

18. Really? It was 'just' Bush and the neo-cons? What about the idiots

who voted for them TWICE?! :wtf:

Is it my "plan" to "hate them until they're back in power?"

Over my dead body, the day that happens.

Better yet? Lets' start a REAL progressive party!!

The Dem party seems to be over run with DINO's and DLCer's and BlueDogs now anyway. :eyes:

[weezy2736]

23. So you have no plan to retain an honest majority? I see... n/t

[Breeze54]

26. LOL!

We will have a true majority in November.

Hang in there. It'll take a little time to clean up the
really bad decisions and actions of the RETHUG Party.

Plus, inducting and retraining all the repubs into Rethug Rehab.
But that will create more jobs, so it's a win-win. :P

[nels25]

28. Granted we will have a true majority in November

but how long we maintain it depends completely on how we act and govern.

Do so in an arrogant manner, and we sow the seed of a short tenure in power (if I had to bet I would say we would lose our majority by 2012 if we replicate the GOP approach).

Hey it out there for us to decide, how we do so will say much about us as humans beings and a party as whole.

[nels25]

27. O brother I bet this response gets me in trouble

Strange I was not aware that there is a litmus test to be a supporter/member of the Democratic Party and advocate/support progressive solutions to the nations problems sans hate and ridicule of any one who does not completely agree with our point of view.

You know I honestly though we were supposed to better than that. That when we speak of tolerance we actually meant it.

Silly me.

One point of advice: Sow to the wind, and reap the whirl wind.

The GOP has done so, if we are stupid so will we.

[ColbertWatcher]

43. Hmm...

...those people who remain in the GOP even after all that their party has done have two choices.

They can accept responsibility for their complicity in the crimes of those they have elected into office and work to make amends or they can leave the party that has betrayed them and help to dissolve it.

What the GOP has done during the Bush administration is nothing short of criminal. I'm all for uniting everyone toward a common goal, but that goal must be a return to respecting the law. If they want to be welcomed back into society with open arms, the first thing they have to do is not pretend nothing happened.

Someone has to be held accountable for the politicization of the Justice Department, the corruption, the lies, the ruined lives the torture and the deaths. Anything less would be appeasement.

[weezy2736]

46. Would you be talking about going after Bush/Cheney

and others of the gang or the voters that voted for them? A vast majority of my friends are republicans, most of which voted for Bush twice and regret doing so. Is that what you mean?

[ColbertWatcher]

51. I mean...

...anyone who has broken the law should be held accountable.

If your friends regret voting for the GOP, not that this is any of my business, but what have they done to show regret? Make amends?

At the very least there must be a trial, similar to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Tribunal_for_Rwanda">International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rettig_Report">The National Commission for Truth and Reconciliation Report (Chile) and if need be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials">The Nuremberg Trials.

Hell, http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006992.php">Talking Points Memo has even asked for something like that:

What this country will end up needing is something like a Truth and Reconciliation Commission because what the country needs is not so much for particular people to go to jail but for the lies and the lies to cover up earlier lies to stop. The country can't get past what has happened or move forward until we can get the truth on the table, deal with it and move on.

I don't think those responsible should be let off the hook with a simple apology. There must be a penalty for destroying habeas corpus, justifying and allowing torture and murder.

If your friends are sincere in their regret, what do they think should be done to the people who betrayed them?

(ON EDIT: I am going to make this its own thread...)

[weezy2736]

52. Jail

They want them in jail. That's been the mutual understanding with everyone I've talked to, anyways, especially after I've shown them some of the articles.

So... I'm pretty sure we're on the same page, right?

[ColbertWatcher]

54. Sounds like it. n/t

[John Kerry VonErich]

15. It's suprising that there are those on both who basically declared war on the political opposition

Hate can go so far before it hits the breaking point of violence. We are very very close to it.

[Wiley50]

9. I do too, every time I target practice. But someday.....at the barricades.....Someday n/t

[Sundoggy]

13. LOL I wasn't gonna go there n/t

[Wiley50]

55. Good to see you still around. I owe you an email

But I had tests at hospital today
and tomorrow, I've got a 150 mile RT to see two doctors

Maybe Friday.

[Breeze54]

19. rotflmfao!

:rofl: :rofl:

[Sundoggy]

12. This is just SCREAMING

for a funny response that will probably get me in trouble, so let's just say "I miss them too".

;)

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous."

... And God granted it.
- Voltaire

[demmiblue]

20. My liberal beliefs, if in action, help the majority of Republicans in this country.

No go here. I want all to prosper, that is why I am a Democrat.

[weezy2736]

25. It's healthy for a country to have a debate about what everyone needs.

Right now, my concern is that a solid minority of Americans aren't being heard as they intended. Their voices need not come at the expense of prosperity for all, or of the common good.

[demmiblue]

30. Again, what most people in this country need is based on liberal policies.

"Their voices need not come at the expense of prosperity for all, or of the common good." Can you hear yourself think?

[weezy2736]

35. What YOU think people need in this country are liberal policies.

What we don't know is, after we begin governing, after we have righted the wrongs and shown Bush and gang for who they are, once we are truly Americans again, we have to be able to ask Americans what they need.

Yes, I can hear myself think. I question it often and refine it daily. I've flip-flopped several times and I know that I'm neither perfect nor near perfect. I question what you say based on "what most people need." Do you know this for fact, having talked to a sizeable cross section of Americans across all 50 states, or no?

For me, liberalism works very well. Others might take exception, and in a Democracy, they deserve to be heard. I think that's what I remember from 11th grade Gov't, anyway...

[demmiblue]

38. Needs: healthcare, food, security, a roof over one's head, etc.

These are some of our collective basic needs. I do not need to take a survey to know that people in this country are slowly losing these NEEDS. And I really don't give a fuck if someone has any other idea as to what is more important than taking care of our fellow human beings, Democracy or not.

Keep in mind, these are only basic needs. The Repubs have already taken a part in demolishing the higher needs of this country.

[weezy2736]

39. You do understand that you lose credibility with the phrase

"And I really don't give a fuck if someone has any other idea..." right? As far as I can tell, you're describing the anti-Democracy. I understand your position, but I'm not sure if you're really listening, having insulted the way I think. Personally, I agree with all the positions you listed, but you and I agreeing, even if we including the entire DU, is not a consensus, and I think it's important that we, as a people, keep with the ideals that were framed in the constitution and listen to everybody.

[demmiblue]

40. And I maintain my position:

"And I really don't give a fuck if someone has any other idea as to what is more important than taking care of our fellow human beings, Democracy or not."

No credibility lost by me... sorry!

[weezy2736]

41. To what means would you go to crowd out any dissenting voices?

Some may say that it is more important for us to educate our youth than to care for people in places we don't govern, some say the exact opposite. Please tell me where you stand so I will know the exact right answer.

[demmiblue]

49. I will sit on them.

[TooBigaTent]

21. You really need to improve your aim. And so does the Democratic party. The pukes are

sitting ducks right now, but the "leaders" of our party are so drunk on the possible retaking of power that they continue to miss the fat, static target that fate has presented to them.

But seriously, IF individual republicans would change their views and reject the bankrupt philosophy that is ruining the planet, I would welcome them to participate in the work of rebuilding. BUT, if you are saying that we should accept them AND their ideas of bigotry, selfishness, destruction and no accountability into the governing of America, I CANNOT and WILL NOT welcome them.

Can you "live with" the actions they have committed?

[weezy2736]

29. I don't have to live with their actions, as I don't defend them.

And yes, some of their ideas are based on a bad worldview. I would much rather spend my time helping to shape a better view of the world and of our own country with all of us than sitting across the isle, whispering gossip.

[nels25]

32. My argument is that many that I know

are in fact desiring a radical change in direction of the way the nation is governed.

But is any one allowed to support progressives unless they support every aspect??

Example: My friend voted for Obama in the Wisconsin primary but does not want to go along with same sex marriage (he has no problem with partner laws).

Does the fact that he has a problem with one issue automatic ly demand that he must not be allowed to support others with which he agrees.

The world is not perfect, politics is the art of the possible, which changes over time.

The time of conservatives is over, an era is ending.

we are being given our chance, must we be vindictive with it??

[Eric J in MN]

24. George W. Bush is in the White House. So is Dick Cheney.

On the Supreme Court, 7/9 of the Justices are Republican appointees.

I'd suggest waiting until there is a Democratic president and 7/9 of the Justices are Democratic appointees to decide if you miss Republicans.

Even then, I wouldn't.

[weezy2736]

31. Bush and Cheney aren't worthy of being human, much less Republican.

The Republican party has been hi-jacked for a joyride over the constitution, and I firmly believe that if the everyday Republican knew all of what was going on, they'd be outraged. It's not about Democrats getting the country back, it's about all Americans getting the country back. By all means, let's kill off the neo-cons, but not those that are innocent bystanders.

[CanonRay]

33. Damn them all to hell, if there is one.

[Perry Logan]

34. I say we airlift the cool people out of Utah and herd all the Republican degenerates there.

They can have their own country, where they can practice Republican policies to their hearts' content.

They will be dead in weeks.

[weezy2736]

36. Most of my best friends are "Republican degenerates."

Just sayin'

I wouldn't wish Utah upon any of my friends.

[applegrove]

42. You'll have to work on that on your own. This is a democratic site.

[weezy2736]

44. I would much rather have a uniform approach to what we do.

I wrote this under the assumption that this was in the best interests of the party. There will be a huge difference with how we interact with our enemies when we are in power, and it would be nice to get a head start on that. If we govern in the best interests of America, we will stay in office longer.

[cynatnite]

45. 'Worthy' foes do not put party before country...

Don't try to romanticize them by considering them worthy adverseries as if this is some movie where two guys we all like have to fight each other.

Time and time again repukes put party before country, before our military, before our citizens and so on. They've lied, they've broken laws, supported warmongering, pissed on our constitution and more.

I get what you're trying to say. We shouldn't sink to their level and I never will, but I won't ignore the damage they've done to this country. I'll never forgive them for this fucking war or how badly they've treated our military and our veterans.

[weezy2736]

47. Oh, I agree completely.

Those that did the crimes should pay. The things that have been done to this country are horrible.

Funny about that mentioning the romance, that would be the end goal, being in a place where either party could take the country in slightly different directions with mutual understanding. I guess, in that way, I would have to like them, but I don't right now. If they were the party of Hagel, pre-2000 McCain and Powel, that's something I can live with.

Yeah, put Condi, Bush, Cheney, all of 'em in jail and forget about them.

[NoGOPZone]

48. That happens alot when your sight isn't properly adjusted. nt

[Brewman_Jax]

50. These are the same people

that voted for Reagan, Bush I and II, and have the nerve to cry foul when rethuglican policies eat them, too, not just those that voted otherwise. Agree with the other comments, adjust your sights.

No pity. :grr:

[weezy2736]

53. I don't expect them to vote for the same people I do.

But I don't feel that it's in our best interests to alienate anyone when we don't need to, much less squeeze anyone the way we have been squeezed.

There's a difference between elected officials and those that vote for them. You can have your "no prisoners" approach, don't cry to me when we lose in 2012 or 2016.

[Brewman_Jax]

56. No, there's no difference

between them. They voted for the officials that had platforms that they agree with. They don't care about anyone else and they've proved it time and again. You can take your compassion for these greedy self-centered scumbags and flush it.

[Batgirl]

57. In light of the fact that the corporate media is a rightwing talking points machine

I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about republican voices going unheard like the soft peeping of so many downy soft baby chicks.

If not for GOP ownership of corporate media, Bush/Cheney GOP wouldn't have had to go to such cartoonishly evil lengths to earn the public's disapproval of them and their policies.

I'm pretty sure after the Dems are back in power, the corporate media will maintain their default setting of promoting the radical rightwing freakshow as though it were mainstream while maintaining a prosecutorial attitude toward those crazy Democrats.

"How do we, as Democrats, justify helping Republicans?"

Agreed that someone will have to rebuild the republican party, but personally many of us will have our hands full trying to rebuild the country.