Clint Eastwood = Racist?

[SavageDem]

Spike Lee points out that Eastwood's last two Iwo Jima films (Letters from Iwo Jima and Flags of our Fathers) had no black soldiers portrayed.

[cynatnite]

1. Oh, for shit's sake...

:eyes:

[LeftinOH]

70. ...and the first response is the best one (except I'd have said "oh, for fuck's sake")...n/t

[Zynx]

2. Well, considering the armed forces were segregated at the time that isn't surprising.

[SavageDem]

6. I wasn't making the judgment...

...just asking the question!

[ColbertWatcher]

75. But there were 900 African-American Marines there.

From the 8th US Marine Corps ammunition company.

[cynatnite]

3. Neither did Spielberg in Saving Private Ryan n/t

[plasticsundance]

5. This is what happens to a mind that goes to too many New York Knicks games.

or, another example of the Decline of the West.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. Oswald Spengler?

Jesus, which side do YOU root for?

[EstimatedProphet]

4. They did, however, represent native Americans and Japanese as real people instead of stereotypes.

[plasticsundance]

8. What team did they root for?

[EstimatedProphet]

26. ?

[SavageDem]

13. Glad to hear it.

Haven't seen either movie yet, but have wanted to. Have always enjoyed Eastwood films (outside of banal Every Which Way... series). Now finding internal conflict knowing that he's a McCain supporter...

[Javaman]

64. If you can, watch them back to back. nt

[mach2]

7. The story reports Lee is making a movie with all black people.

:eyes:

[Richardo]

10. ...

:spray:

:rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Literacy is fun!

The story says Lee's making a film about a segregated division.

Not an all black film.

[mach2]

35. Here is a direct quote from the story.

"Lee — whose next film is this fall's "Miracle at St. Anna," the story of an all-black U.S. division fighting in Italy during the war"

You seem to be making a distinction without a difference.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Here's a direct quote from a semi literate.

"making a movie with all black people."

[mach2]

43. I didn't insult you...why are you insulting me?

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. If you're going to play dumb...

it's going to come back to haunt you.

[stillcool]

18. All black people?

It's a story about an "all black division". Probably nothing you will be interested in seeing.

Lee — whose next film is this fall's "Miracle at St. Anna," the story of an all-black U.S. division fighting in Italy during the war

[mach2]

29. Sorry, I should have said "division."

That is apparently a totally different thing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Well, yeah.

It is a different thing.

:shrug:

[stillcool]

53. Do you understand...

the difference between a story about a black division fighting in WWII, and an 'all black movie'?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Apparently some black WWII veterans are upset too.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/oct/21/usa.filmnews

How uppity of them. Why won't they just shut up?

[stillcool]

15. thanks for the perspective...

I can't imagine why soldiers who served in WWII would be upset at being written out of their own history. A couple of extras were all it would have taken. Too much to ask.

[SavageDem]

23. Ooooh, that's good info!

Thanks for that reference. That adds some meat to the discussion.

[lame54]

12. The good news is...

in these films the black guy didn't die

[Phred42]

14. That's a stretch - Come up with somethig concret

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. OK

"Melton McLaurin, author of the forthcoming The Marines of Montford Point and an accompanying documentary to be released in February, says that there were hundreds of black soldiers on Iwo Jima from the first day of the 35-day battle. Although most of the black marine units were assigned ammunition and supply roles, the chaos of the landing soon undermined the battle plan.

"When they first hit the beach the resistance was so fierce that they weren't shifting ammunition, they were firing their rifles," said Dr McLaurin.

The failure to transfer the active role played by African-Americans at Iwo Jima to the big screen does not surprise him. "One of the marines I interviewed said that the people who were filming newsreel footage on Iwo Jima deliberately turned their cameras away when black folks came by. Blacks are not surprised at all when they see movies set where black troops were engaged and never show on the screen. I would like to say that it was from ignorance but anybody can do research and come up with books about African-Americans in world war two. I think it has to do with box office and what producers of movies think Americans really want to see.""

See link above.

[Phred42]

22. I don't dissagree that there were Black at Iwo - and I don't know if Eastwood is a raceist

ANd I"m not defending him - but I still don't get how not having black actors in that movie equates to Eastwood being a racist.

He may well be - but this dosen't do it for me

[no_hypocrisy]

16. Morgan Freeman wasn't complaining of being Clint's co-star in

Unforgiven.

[cynatnite]

25. He won best supporting actor in Eastwood's Million Dollar Baby n/t

[Phoonzang]

19. It would have been nice of Clint

to portray reality in his films. There were black marines fighting and dying on Iwo Jima.

[earth mom]

20. Everything is considered racist this year.

:eyes:

Especially if you don't support Obama and think he's a corporatist shill like most the rest of em in D.C.

[SavageDem]

27. It's a difficult balance.

There is no doubt - among thoughtful, rational people - that racism is still very much alive and well in the United States. But I don't want to be reactionary and assign every negative action a racist motive. Perhaps my subject line was a bit inflammatory, as I really was not implying that I automatically assumed Eastwood to be a racist. It is curious, however - especially given the supporting info provided in threads above - that black soldiers were not portrayed.

[RedCappedBandit]

52. I'm starting to think the vast majority of people are actually racist

not because of Obama's campaign.. just more life experiences. Just sayin.

[rebel with a cause]

63. all people are prejudice in one way or another

it is part of our nature. Only maybe about 1/2 of us are racist (my made up statistics). :)

I am always surprised at how many liars, racist, and abusers there are in this world. No matter how old I get, how much I see, or how cynical I get, it always surprises me the extent of it. That is why I am a misanthrope (not a hater as much as a distruster).

[Reader Rabbit]

21. Armed forces weren't integrated until 1948

So isn't that historically accurate? I know all-black units served in the ETO, but were there any involved in the island-hopping campaigns in the Pacific? Can any military historians clarify this for us?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Historically accurate? No. See link above.

Even a black man involved in that historic flag raising.

[BrotherBuzz]

58. There was only one Army Negro Division in the Pacific theater of operation

The 93rd Division. It island hopped, moping up after the fighting was complete. The 93rd division was basically used as land based stevedores. Truck driving, moving supplies (can you say ordinance?), and whatnot.

During the First World War the all-black 93rd division, a rag-tag outfit that was initially issued Civil War uniforms, were assigned to French command by General John Pershing during WWI. The French desperately needed fresh troops and Pershing was able to satisfy France's needs by getting rid of his own problem - black soldiers. The 93d Division turned in their American equipment and were issued French rifles, bayonets, helmets, packs, and other equipment of the French soldier. They were then organized, trained, and commanded as a French unit, the first unit in US history to serve under foreign command.

The 93nd division fought as part of the French army, where, ironically, it found acceptance, respect, and glory, eventually winning the Croix de Guerre, only to return to America and find Jim Crow laws alive and well.

Their WWII unit patch was the Adrian helmet, a French helmet.

[Reader Rabbit]

69. Damn, that's cool and yet very sad.

Thanks for the history lesson! :)

[nykym]

28. Dear Spike

The story of the battle of Iwo Jima between the United States and Imperial Japan during World War II, as told from the perspective of the Japanese who fought it. So round eye what you say to that!

[Dukkha]

30. acoording to Spike all whitey is racist

get a life your movies suck!

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. And what black units served in the battle for Iwo Jima?

Serious question.

I know that the army was very loathe to have black combat units in Europe - they had problems with having black soldiers killing white soldiers. There were the Tuskegee Airmen, of course, and all kinds of black support companies in Europe. And I understand there were black combat units in the Pacific (it's OK for blacks to kill Asians), but not in the Marines.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. The 8th U.S. Marine Corp. Maybe you've heard of them.

See link above.

[RaleighNCDUer]

39. You mean, this link?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/oct/21/usa.filmnews

A good link bears repeating.

All I can say is 'wow'.

I was a Marine, and I never knew about that. It was, of course, a support company, but I was not even aware they had been there. I had gotten the impression that the only black units that got near combat were Army.

It's good to know I was wrong.

[KamaAina]

32. Clint Eastwood = Ableist.

Million Dollar Baby: Woman acquires disability and promptly kills herself.

Eastwood on the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA):

http://www.inclusiondaily.com/news/access/notification.htm#100200

On Friday, a jury decided that Clint Eastwood was liable for three violations regarding access at his Mission Ranch Inn, but did not order the actor/director to pay any damages to the woman who had sued him.

Diane zum Brunnen, who has multiple sclerosis and uses a wheelchair, claimed that Eastwood's Mission Ranch Inn in Carmel was inaccessible when she and her husband visited in 1996. She was asking for damages and for the court to force Eastwood to make changes to make the hotel more accessible....

Eastwood has portrayed himself as a hero for small business owners who do not adhere to the Americans with Disabilities Act, suggesting they are victims of "renegade lawyers". He has also claimed that people with disabilities are being used by such attorneys who just want a "fistful of dollars".

In May of this year, Eastwood argued before the U.S. House Committee on the Judiciary that businesses should be given a 90-day notice before a discrimination complaint could be filed based on the ADA. Eastwood was defending HR 3590, the proposed "ADA Notification Act", which many disability rights advocates say would severely weaken the law.

Earth to Clint: In some cases, the people with disabilities are the attorneys.

edit: italics; bolding

[rebel with a cause]

67. Part of my disability checkups

was to see their Psychiatrist whose office was on the third floor. I had to do three flights of stairs when I was not suppose to do one. Fortunately, she got to see my struggle of making the climb. The government ways are not our ways.

[bushmeister0]

34. Why hasn't Dirty Harry done a movie about the cooks on navy ships

back then or all the other demeaning duties the majority of blacks were relegated to back then? Nox office draw, I guess.

Better yet, why doesn't Spike Lee shut the F up and do his oen movie about the Tuskeegee Airmen or the 758th, 761st and 784th tank units who fought with distinction in Europe?

Or the Port Chicago disaster, that would be a good one. In fact, why hasn't anyone done a movie about that?

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/port-chicago/

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Is it too much to ask that people read...

before sticking their feet in their mouths?

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. He IS doing his own movie about a combat division in Europe.

but you are right - there needs to be a movie about the Port Chicago catastrophe. I remember a made-for-TV movie some years ago featured it - how it prompted a mutiny because the ammunition-handling procedures were not changed after it happened.

[Oeditpus Rex]

49. You may be remembering an episode of 'JAG'

That's the only thing I've ever seen on teevee about Port Chicago — and if I knew of something, I'd watch it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0613331/

[RaleighNCDUer]

51. You know, you may be right.

(I hate getting old - the first to go is NOT the knees.)

[Oeditpus Rex]

54. Heh... tell me about it

I may be wrong, too. I don't get eleventy skillion channels, so I could've easily missed something.

In fact, a keyword search of IMDb reveals that I am indeed wrong: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181769/

[Dreamer Tatum]

42. Maybe he should get revenge by stereotyping all white people in his movies

Oh, wait, he does that already. Sorry.

[mach2]

45. Better not criticize him...that's being a racist, yanno...

:eyes:

[gatorboy]

44. This Thread = Dumb?

Never heard of Clint's film on Charlie 'Bird' Parker?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094747/

[rosesaylavee]

46. I am glad we (media attention/collective 'we' as a culture) are able to talk about it now.

The more it's discussed, the less likely these omissions will happen in the future. I would imagine there have been complaints in the past but not carried by any media outlet. Good for Mr. Lee for pointing out the omission. Good for the black marines to speak up and be heard.

:thumbsup:

[Jed Dilligan]

48. The real question is

why weren't there any black people in Carmel-by-the-Sea when he was mayor?

:hide:

[Mike Daniels]

50. Spike Lee needs to finds something relevant to worry about

Then again, outside of his Katrina documentary Lee's been largely irrelevant as a film maker for some time while Eastwood just seems to get better and better in his twilight years.

[Oeditpus Rex]

55. There were 110,000 U.S. troops in the Battle of Iwo Jima

Everything I can find online says fewer than 900 were black.

If Eastwood maintained historical accuracy, he'd have one black actor in a cast of about 120 — but that would appear as a "token" to many, so he'd be prompted to increase it to maybe half a dozen or so. But then, he'd be misrepresenting the facts.

[Zynx]

56. Quite right. Also, I'd hate to break it to people, but not every movie needs a racial statement

in it. He very thoroughly touched on the mutual racism of both the Americans and the Japanese.

[op6203]

59. Exactly... AND are they POSITIVE there were no black actors?

While 900 is quite a bit, they still only make up roughly 1% of the soldiers at Iwo Jima. If Clint kept that ratio historically accurate, you'd have to watch very carefully to catch a glimpse of a black soldier.

And how is Spike so sure there wasn't a single black person in this film? I admit, I haven't seen it. But I went to youtube and clicked on "Clint Eastwood - Making Letters of Iwo Jima" Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LF96K8poSE

Look at the still image at the 40 second mark... look right above the word digital in their "digital content" banner. Isn't that a black actor dressed as an American soldier?

[susankh4]

57. Did Clint endorse Hillary or something?

I must have missed it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. Why would he?

He is, and always has been, a republican.

[susankh4]

62. Well... he is being called a "racist" like the rest of us are....

So I thought maybe he jumped ship.

[cynatnite]

72. He didn't endorse her, but...

he did say that he felt sorry for her.

“Everybody’s trying to talk her into folding, but it doesn’t seem like the spirit of Americana,” Eastwood (a McCain supporter) told Politico before heading into the premiere of his drama, Changeling, starring Angelina Jolie, at Cannes Film Festival. “Put yourself in the place of (Clinton). You’ve gone out there and made a thousand speeches, and you’ve shaken a million hands and you’ve been out there working your ass off, and then somebody comes up and says, ‘Why don’t you just drop out of it?’”

The legendary actor/director, who also had a brief stint as Mayor of Carmel, California, said that Clinton could make up what many have called an insurmountable deficit, if Senator Barack Obama trips over himself again.

“I watch Clinton and feel kind of sorry for her and wonder,” ‘What are all these people telling her to run away for?’” Eastwood said in his interview. “She’s showing her strength by hanging in there.”

http://thecelebritycafe.com/features/16025.html

That's the only thing I could come up with on this.

[fascisthunter]

61. shit stirring

[Dreamer Tatum]

65. Here is yet another way Spike Lee is full of crap

He's squawking that there were no black ACTORS in the film. Yet for every actor in a motion picture, there are
at least 10 people behind the scenes in crew, production staff, studio personnel, and so on. I don't see any quotes
from Lee about people behind the scenes, how many were black, and whether THAT is "acceptable."

From this we can infer that to Spike Lee, it's not about actual opportunity for actual, everyday black people who are
trying to fill their refrigerators and gas tanks TODAY. It's about a slight that, historically, wasn't really a slight.

Idjit.

[BlooInBloo]

66. It's certainly typical for white folks to make believe there aren't any black folks...

in their fictional worlds. At least no normal black folks - only cartoonish ones.

But given the blockade we've put on the word "racist", we're probably not allowed to call that racism.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

68. Dirty Harry had African American, Hispanic, and female police partners

in that series of movies in addition to a Japanese girlfriend in Magnum Force and a black girlfriend and Native American girlfriend in the Eiger Sanction, at points in time when such things were not that common to see depicted in movies. I assume that a major star such as Eastwood had significant creative control over the films he chose to appear in. Clint Eastwood may be a touch conservative for all I know, but he's never struck me as a racist.

[fishwax]

71. ah, this thread is so predictable

OP poses the question of Clint Eastwood being racist, and offers a link to a story in which mentions Spike Lee. Bring on the outrage, as defensive posters jump to Eastwood's defense and attack Spike Lee as though he had claimed that Eastwood was a racist: Spike is irrelevant, is a racist himself, is a hack, needs to find something "useful" to complain about, etc. Spike ought to make a movie about the segregated army! Oh, he is? Well then he's just as bad for making a "movie with all black people." :eyes:

Of course, Spike Lee didn't invent this criticism out of thin air--African American veterans (and others) raised the issue when the movies first came out.

I can't imagine why Black veterans who risked their lives at Iwo Jima would want to point out that they were actually there in real life, unlike the widely-acclaimed films--must be because they're "oversensitive" :eyes:

Anyway, Godard said that the best way to perform film criticism is to make another film--sounds like that's what Spike Lee is doing. I find it hard to see what's wrong with that.

[1]

73. irrelevant probably at this point but, spike was wrong...

"flags of our fathers" was showing on hbo tonight.

there were black actors on screen when the landings were being discussed aboard ship (like 17 minutes into the film.) "the eighth ammo company will land here to resupply..."

was that enough? probably not. but you can't say they weren't there...

[marmar]

74. No....The military was segregated at the time.

The first Star Wars movie had no black actors (except for the heard-but-not-seen James Earl Jones), that doesn't make George Lucas a racist. Context of the times and situation.

[1]

76. i know...

i was neither defending ancient military policy nor supporting eastwood (who i do like as an actor and as a director, btw...)

i was just pointing out that spike's statements were inaccurate.

there were black actors and their mission portrayed in "flags of our fathers".

[lib2DaBone]

77. Oh Shit

Why dont we just turn this board over to Freepers? It's useless. They are like Bacteria growing on a culture. If you spot ONE Freeper under your sink, you have a MILLION!

[1]

78. are you talking to me? n/t.

[AP]

79. Liked Million Dollar Baby, but making the German boxer a black ex-prostitute was a little OTT.