WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DIVIDING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

[rhett o rick]

There is a lot of blogging about the divided Democratic Party. Who’s responsible? Is it bad, is it good?

Someone had the audacity in DU to accuse Keith Olbermann of dividing the party. Pleeez
I don’t give a crap about who did or didn’t. It’s divided, now what do we do?

The powerful corporations that own the republican party aren’t content with that. They want to cover their bets by owning a controlling share of the Democratic Party as well. Sadly there are Democrats that will follow these corporatists (read fascists) to destruction. The republicans don’t hold an exclusive on gullibility.

The division of course is between those owned by the corporations (DLC) and those that are grassroots based (DNC). Some grass roots Democrats are so pissed that the party has such a corporate control they choose organizations not associated with the party, like moveon.org.

The Party divide is revealed big time in the contest for the Democratic nomination. Sen Clinton with the corporations and DLC and Obama with the grassroots.

Those of us that see the corporate influence as killing the Party wish correct this by kicking those out that are clearly DINO’s. Like DiFi, Lieberman and Chuck Schumer.

This is an appeal to grassroots Democrats. Stay and fight. We expect to loose a battle or two but don’t give up. Help kick the DINO’s from the Party. Obama has inspired a movement. Continue to fight even if the powerful, corporate sponsored Democrats try to run the Party.

[msongs]

1. gee, you sure sound divisive yourself, wanting to kick everyone out who disagrees with you nt

[rhett o rick]

5. Ok so what do you propose?

I want to kick out those that clearly do not adhere to the values of the Democratic Party. Those that choose to support big corporations over working people belong in the other party. What are your ideas?

[2rth2pwr]

78. How do you get kicked out of a party that has no rules for joining it?

[L. Coyote]

36. WHY are you making such a divisive declaration, as if it is fact?

You are, it seems on the face of it!!

[ccharles000]

2. I don't think we are divided.

What does not kill you only makes you stronger.

[rhett o rick]

8. Have you ventured into GD-P lately?? nm

[cali]

74. LOL!! GDP is not the dem party. The party is not nearly as divided

as you suggest. We'll have months to heal. The primary will be over soon. The heat of the moment will pass and Denver will be a cloying lovefest.

[rhett o rick]

13. Read post 9 below and tell me we aren't divided. nm

[Andy823]

3. The republicans

And the MSM that they own! They have been the ones who have pushed this race to the point of dividing the party, and they did a great job of it. Now we need to stop the fighting, and go after them, because they are the "real" enemy, and who we should be addressing right now, not fighting with each other! Just my 2 cents worth!

[EstimatedProphet]

35. A-Fucking-Men!

[Individualist]

4. DLC

[ColbertWatcher]

6. I have to agree with you on this. n/t

[cynatnite]

7. Well, the party hasn't looked very divided today n/t

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gman]

10. Who TF are you to say who stays and who is kicked out?

Who TF are you to say what the party is and is not? You must be new.

[rhett o rick]

11. Comments like yours amaze me. You attack me but give no stance yourself.

I am still pretending that this is America and I am free to give my opinion. Do you have opinions or just get off attacking others that do? I must assume from the little you gave me to work with that you are just tickled with the make up of the Party. Well good, your work is done. I am betting you're a Lieberman lover. Just a hunch.

[bonito]

12. MIC DLC MOUSE n/t

[Hobarticus]

14. Sweet! Who do I get to kick out?!?

:crazy:

[rhett o rick]

26. I would start with DiFi, if I had my way. nm

[QueenOfCalifornia]

28. Me?

I don't wanna go....

I like all the warmth here. It's sort of warm the way Hell is warm :eyes:

[Hobarticus]

32. Ixnay, pal...I say you're a DINO

It's my party, and I'll cry wolf if I want to.

just think....if everyone got to throw whoever out they wanted....who'd be left?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

43. Let's see

I'd be left... and a few people who always see it my way and I would allow my cat and dog to still live with me but my kids are starting to really get on my nerves....

[Rosemary2205]

38. I don't care as long it's not GROVELBOT!

:)

[Hobarticus]

40. Oops....Grovelbot, please come back in!

Sorry, got a little overzealous there...

[Occulus]

15. WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DIVIDING BY ZERO?

Oh.

My bad.

:D

[WA98296]

16. DLC: a bit of info and membership list link

From Wikipedia:

The Democratic Leadership Council ...argues that the United States Democratic Party should shift away from traditionally populist positions.

The DLC hails President Clinton as proof of the viability of third way politicians and as a DLC success story while progressives assert that Bill Clinton won campaigning as a populist only to abandon those positions after getting elected.

Critics contend that the DLC is a powerful, corporate-financed mouthpiece within the Democratic party - or "The Republican Wing of the Democratic Party"]

The DLC's affiliated think tank is the Progressive Policy Institute. Democrats who adhere to the DLC's philosophy often call themselves New Democrats. Others use this label too though and belong to other organizations and have differing agendas contesting to define that term and control the party's future.

The DLC's current chairman is former Representative Harold Ford, Jr. of Tennessee, and its vice chair is Senator Thomas R. Carper of Delaware. Its CEO is Al From and its president is Bruce Reed. U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is chair of the DLC's American Dream Initiative. <3>

Here's a link to members::

http://www.nndb.com/group/269/00009398\

[Beaverhausen]

17. "I'm not a member of an organized party. I'm a democrat."

get over yourself. We aren't divided - you are buying the media spin and yes, Olbermann, who I love is contributing to it. But we will get it together soon enough.

Don't look at GD-P as any indication of what is going on in the real world. A handful of big mouthed buttheads do not an electorate make.

[rhett o rick]

25. I guess you think everything is just hunky dory. Well rationalization is the key

to happiness. You must be very happy.

I find the use of the expression "get over yourself" as offensive. You attack me because I have a different opinion than you. Because I believe that corporations have control on some of our Democratic Congress people?

[PufPuf23]

18. We are duped by the corporate MSM into division

more so than individual political egos.

That said, IMO the DLC has thrown populism under the bus to the benefit of wall street and international banks.

[Greyhound]

19. They have owned, and controlled, The Party for as long as I can remember.

Each time substantive change has challenged the rulers, there is an assassination, riots, economic disaster, to stop it. I wait with cautious optimism, to see if Obama is up to it and smart enough to make it work, or if he folds under the pressure and does his one term and exit.

[rhett o rick]

22. He can't do it alone. And he will have the corporate wing of the party trying to sabotage him.

the big corporations have unlimited money and will do anything and everything to control the government. It is worth billions to them.

[Greyhound]

48. exactly. I hate to say it, but the only President in my lifetime to effectively

circumvent the rulers of the beltway was Raygun. He appealed directly to the people and they put the pressure on to give him what he wanted.

Obama certainly could do that, but his 180 after meeting with Schumer, From, & Ford concerns me. We'll see.

[alarimer]

80. Obama is part of the corporate wing.

I doubt seriously he will do anything about that, since they have contributed substantially to his campaign.

[SammyWinstonJack]

58. He does his one term and exits. If he even makes it that far.

Empty suit.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

66. Again?

It gets so old for the rest of us.

[JamesA1102]

20. I would say people like you are.

who want to kick out anyone who doesn't agree with your narrow worldview.

[rhett o rick]

21. So you have nothing substantitive to add just wanted to vent on me??

Do you think it is healthy to the party to let the corporations take over?

I by thinking that overlooking those in the Party that support the republican fascist agenda is a "narrow worldview", then I accept it.

Do you actually have opinions on the issue or just get off attacking me?

[JamesA1102]

41. You're the one with a "narrow worldview" as you put it.

The Democratic Party is and has always been a big tent. It should remain so. Those requiring an ideological litmus test and that everyone else march in lockstep with their point of view are the one with a "facist agenda".

[rhett o rick]

42. So do you have room under your big tent for Zell Miller, Joe Lieberman and Diane Feinstein? nm

[JamesA1102]

50. Feinstein sure...

but as for Miller and Lieberman; they are the ones who walked away from the party.

[Winterblues]

23. The hatred for Hillary is palpable and all from those whose message is

End the Divisiviness in America. Change you can believe in...They sure don't practice anything they preach do they?

[rhett o rick]

24. Wow, do I understand that you think that ending divisivness equates to hating Hillary?

I can't speak for anyone else but I want change. I want the corporation's that hijacked out government to be heavily regulated before they completely destroy us. I want the Democratic party to work to rid itself of those that are clearly in favor of corporate control over control by we the people.

I have accepted cheeses into my life.

[Winterblues]

27. I said the the message that seems to resonate is ending Divisiveness

Yet those that supposedly embrace that message seem to be the most divisive..That is what I said.. It surfaces in the very intense Hatred for Hillary (and Bill as well) that permeates these boards..

[Two Americas]

55. there you go

Focusing on the corporate domination over all of our lives as the first priority and fighting back against the wealthy and powerful few would unite the party and bring millions of new allies to the fight. We need not purge, we need not compromise. We need to speak and stand for the truth. Some - a small but very dominant and vocal number - will leave: those who are not willing to see the party return to its class roots, do not want the party to fight corporatism, do not want the party to take up the fight aggressively on the behalf of the left behind. (Everyone says they do, but their actions and opinions contradict that.)

The party is deeply divided right now - it is just revealing itself, it isn't being caused by anyone. The divide is between those who want to do what I suggested above, and those who do not. That divide has been growing and existed long before the current primary season, but it is definitely becoming more and more obvious.

I think it is a good thing that the divide is becoming more clear. This is long overdue, and it gives us an opportunity to face it and overcome it.

The party keeps hanging out a sign: "we welcome the poor, the downtrodden, the forgotten and abused." Then when we try to come in, we hear all of the complaints about how we are ruining the expensive carpet with our muddy boots. That is where the divide is - the elegant carpet proponents, and those wearing muddy boots. The party needs to get rid of the carpet, or take down that sign. Soon, it will do one or the other. There are a thousand muddy boots people for every elegant carpet person, and that is where the future lies. As it is now, the carpet people control the party and the discussion at all levels. That is why half of the voters don't vote at all, and why half of the rest of the voters are lured away to vote Republican.

The FDR administration was the muddy boots party, and people in West Virgina were not excluded. In the context of that big tent - inclusive, but focused tightly on a very radical and uncompromising position - all of the social issues can be advanced. In a context of cultural war social issues we lose on the social issues, and we lose on the issues of power and economics. The way we are approaching it now, we are forced to either have a small tent or compromise on principle. That is a lie. Standing on principle would expand the tent, and failing to stand on principle shrinks it.

[rhett o rick]

62. HEY. This should be a OP not buried in a sub thread. Well written. I have such

a hard time being articulate enough to get my points across. People tend to focus on other than what I intend.

A big tent is great but their is no room in our tent for corporatists, fascist or republicans.



"I have decided to accept cheeses into my life". and my waste line is suffering for it.

[Two Americas]

67. thanks rhett o rick

Appreciate your comments. Before we discuss how big the tent is going to be, we need to decide what the purpose of the tent is, eh?

[rhett o rick]

73. Agree. nm

[scarletwoman]

79. "Standing on principle would expand the tent, and failing to stand on principle shrinks it." Bravo!

Excellent post.

I'm really saddened, reading through this thread, at how the majority of the responses seem to reveal a complete absence of awareness of the true nature of the Democratic Party power structure.

They invoke the word "Democrat" like a magical talisman that wards off all evil, and completely ignore the fact that there really IS an empirically provable faction of the Democratic Party that has been corrupting it from within for many years now.

I don't understand what drives this desire to remain in denial, I really don't.

Thanks again for another well-spoken post.
sw

[QueenOfCalifornia]

29. Not me

I am not responsible for dividing this party...

I am a uniter.

Wanna Margarita?

[Kajsa]

30. When we have our nominee, and

are facing McCain and the Repubs in the GE,
we will come together.

Like Obama said,

" There is more that unites us".

No More Republican Rule!

[DU GrovelBot]

31. ## DON'T DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
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[rhett o rick]

54. Oh yeah, you can't tell me what to do. Just for that I WILL donate.

Wait, have I been manipulated?? I feel so used. but i will donate anyway. Long live DU.

"I have taken cheeses into my life"

[Fireweed247]

33. The same organization that has made it impossible for the antiwar movement to go anywhere

These divide and conquer techniques have been perfected since the beginnings of COINTELPRO.
Many in the Democratic party are planted opposition to play 'good cop bad cop'. When you have an elaborate plan like PNAC, you cannot leave the opposition up to chance.


Great post
:applause:
"Continue to fight even if the powerful, corporate sponsored Democrats try to run the Party"
We have to fight to take back OUR party!

[seemslikeadream]

34. DLC

[Rosemary2205]

37. Sorry but stupid question -- the party has never been undivided.

Democrats encompass a lot of different types all the way from rich to poor, conservative to liberal, gay and homophobe, hawk and pacifist, ad nauseum. We've always had our differences. On policy, the differences between Hillary and Obama are minimal. The current battle is over personal loyalty not party loyalty. This too shall pass.

[LanternWaste]

39. Having ventured into GD:P a few times, I'd hazard a guess that...

Having ventured into GD:P a few times, I'd hazard a guess that we ourselves are responsible (at least in part and parcel). We berate, denigrate and minimize each other simply because person A wants candidate B, while person B wants candidate A.

What do we do? I think the major prescription would be simply to treat each other like we'd like to be treated ourselves.

[sallyseven]

44. And when the time comes

suck it up and vote for the democrat. The country is bigger than our little preferences. Our vote is responsible for moving forward or allowing that McLame screw the US and the world.

[rhett o rick]

63. I am in. nm

[liberal N proud]

45. THE MEDIA stupid

The media drove the spike into the heart of the Democratic party and too many here and across the country fell for their stunt.

[rhett o rick]

46. I am in no way sticking up for the corp media, but our party has two very distinct

fascist, the DLC and the DNC. Here is Pres Clinton dumping heavily on the DNC.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/bill-clinton-in.html

The corp media didn't do this, Bill Clinton did.

Did you call me stupid?

[liberal N proud]

49. The stupid part was just a metaphor

Sorry if it touched a nerve.

[rhett o rick]

53. LOL no way. I understood completely. Just trying to give you a little schtuff in return.

Thanks for the response.

[psychmommy]

56. i think the dlc is already losing it stranglehold on our party.

they held the purse strings but no more. i believe things are moving-legislation is being pushed through and dems are taking up for each other against bush & mccain because of this. i don't think they have to be kicked out-they have been marginalized. they threatened pelosi and dean-how long has that crap been going on? we the netroots have made the difference. this is our party and we take it back. you, dlc are going our way. we have been down your road and we didn't like the view.

[rhett o rick]

57. Yes I agree. I am learning here that one must be careful with choice of words.

"Kick out" has raised a lot of hackles. What I meant was to rid the party of the DINO's that always support the republicans by voting them out. Replacing DiFi for example with someone that adheres to our Democratic principles.

[butterfly77]

47. The media...

I watched as they attacked Hillary in the beginning and then when they saw Obama began to win many states they began attacking Obama. Now they are waiting for Obama to wrap up the nomination and then the attacks on him will go on full force and McCain will be cradled and protected...

[JamesA1102]

51. Excellent point NT

[TexasObserver]

52. We have always been a fragile coalition bound mainly by our collective "outsider" status.

Ever since we embraced blacks as a key part of our coalition, we've had problems with racist whites who would otherwise be in our coalition. This has syphoned off labor and working class white voters who vote their emotions over their economics.

This time we have a new element to our typical problems. We have a female candidate who has actively sought to make her gender a central theme in her campaign. More than anything this year, that tactic has caused a split in our coalition. We have women who cannot find a single issue they agree with John McCain talking about voting for him because they're mad Hillary can't win the nomination. More than any other person, Hillary Clinton is responsible for the current divisions in our party coalition.

[spanone]

59. it's not divided.....debate is healthy in a democracy.....

[rhett o rick]

65. Please see post 64 below. nm

[ThomWV]

60. I don't see any divide in the Party, we're all still Democrats and will continue to be.

[L. Coyote]

61. Frankly, the DEMs are looking more and more like a NATIONAL UNITY MOVEMENT every day!!!

The Dems are now "divided" by how many million more registered voters?? And counting.... Go Barack, Go Hillary !!!!!!!

[rhett o rick]

64. I WAS WRONG to use the words divided. I was also wrong to use the words "kick out".

These words seem to bring out passionate responses away from my point. I blew making my point clearly. Some here understood but most did not. My fault. I am learning how important it is to use the appropriate words.

When I speak of a divided party I am not speaking of the diverse makeup of the party, the big tent. I support that. What I mean is the Obama campaign has awakened a certain grassroots element of the party that has been quiet in the recent past. The party powers, call them what you want, have IMHO seem to me to have forgotten their grassroots base. I am certainly not meaning Howard Dean. To me the split between the power Democrats like those in the DLC and the grassroots Democrats like those championing Obama and even IMHO moveon.org has become most evident in recent months.

I support the grassroots movement and when I speak about “kicking out” I mean we, the grassroots Democrats, need to replace those that are DINO’s like Lieberman and Zell Miller were. There are a number of Democratic Senators (DINO’s) that often vote with Bush/Cheney. To me this isn’t just reaching across the isle but traitorous as Bush/Cheney are war criminals and should be opposed at each and every turn.

I hope this is better.

[L. Coyote]

77. much better

[VotesForWomen]

68. *you're* creating division with "Sen Clinton with the corporations and DLC and Obama with the grassr

grassroots." I hope you'll understand if not everyone agrees with you on that. when the koolaid wears off you may see that Obama is not quite the radical anti-establishmnet messiah you think he is.

[Perry Logan]

69. The dumbshits who called their fellow Democrats racists just to win the nomination.

Unforgivable.

[undeterred]

70. Not the dumbshits who ARE racists.

That would be rational. :sarcasm:

[Perry Logan]

71. Hence: Obama/McCain 237 - 290; Clinton/McCain 280 - 241

[undeterred]

72. Hence you still don't get it.

Congratulations, you are the most obtuse man on this messageboard.

[susankh4]

75. You?

And the rest of the supposed "Democrats" that have nothing good to say about one another.

[rhett o rick]

81. Why Susan you sound bitter. And if you think I have anything to do with dividing the party

you give me whyyyyy to much credit. I worded the post badly. There are those in the party that don't adhere to Democratic values. This of course is my opinion. For example Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller are good examples. While they were in the party it was obvious to some that they didn't belong. There are still more like them, DiFi of example. She favors corporations over people. My fear is that the big money of the corporations will buy their way into controlling our party. This may be just fine with you but I will fight it.

[TMarcello]

76. THE CLINTON CRIME FAMILY

[Rene]

82. Howard Dean