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Should a president have a third term?

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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:23 PM
Original message
Poll question: Should a president have a third term?
Before you jump in and give this a resounding no...stop and think for a moment.

What would this country be like if Bill Clinton had gotten a third term? His answer to 9/11 would have been much different...hell, it might not have happened at all if he'd seen the PDB titled 'Bin Laden Determined To Strike in US'.

Iraq definitely would not have happened at all. Our economy would look completely different than it does now. This has had me wondering if allowing a third term run for president is not such a bad thing.

My mother, my grandmother and I had this conversation at lunch today. My grandmother hated Franklin Roosevelt having a fourth term even though she's enjoying her social security.

So, with all this in mind, do you think a president should be able to run for a third term?
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. One 6 yr term
If they get a chance to get re-elected, and succeed, they do not fear the will of the people. There's no repercussion.
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Hmmm . . .
now here's an idea to consider.
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Freedom Train Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. The considered it almost 150 years ago already
Does the CSA Constitution ring a bell?
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. That's the Mexico does it, I believe.
I like it.

But then there is an argument for four two year terms. We can throw the bastard out without all the impeachment mess.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. No - two terms is enough.
I'd even be happy to rework it to be one, 6-year term.

Gives them more time than 4 years to get some projects going, but not long enough that they get entrenched.

Plus, if we end up with a real jackass (like we have now), a two-term limit ensures that we can't have the ridiculous dickhead more than that.

I'd much rather take the risk that a real good guy will be out too soon than that a total shithead criminal will be there too long.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. As good as a third Clinton term sounds now,
think about what a third Bush term would sound like. I guess it all depends on the timing. I'll have to vote no.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. Don't forget Reagan
He could have probably won a third term. Imagine what things would be like then. Two terms is enough. For Each FDR how many Hoover, Bush, or Reagan types has our country elected to the Oval Office.
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Absolutely not.
Not after what we've been through for the past 7 1/2 years. I thank God every day for term limits. We need a guaranteed way to get rid of idiots like Bush who manage to con their way into office.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Im actually for removing ALL restrictions on terms
Provided the bar to impeach is lowered to keep them in line.

Our country would have been SOL if FDR had been forced to leave office after two terms.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
29. The bar for impeachment is as low as it can get
all it takes is a simple majority in the House to impeach. High Crimes and Misdemeanors is about as broad a definition of impeachable offenses as can be crafted without listing specifics. The fact that the current administration has not been impeached to a man is a result of politics, not a difficult or involved procedure. JMO
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. No and Congress should have an 8 year limit too
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. Only if you mean FDR
I'd gladly reincarnate him to serve again and again and again....
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes. From a purely democratic standpoint, a candidate should be viable as long as they're viable.
I tend toward purism in the face of reality at times, though...
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. No.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. If we could elect Franklin D. Roosevelt-like candidates to office, I favor repealing term limits.
Let the ultimate question of a president's length of service rest with the people and no other. Wall Street and their corporate stooges in the Republican Party would shit bricks if the Dems fielded another populist like FDR and won.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
30. A man like FDR comes along only once
in a Countrys history. All others pale comparison.
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WA98296 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. Bill brought us NAFTA, Telecommunications Act of 96, drug testing employees
A third term, gee maybe it's a good thing the republicans get credit for most of the results of those policies.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I can stomach that compared to bush...
Iraq War
9/11
damaged constitution
crappy economy
etc...

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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. If it's a choice between bad or worse, voter turnout/registration would be going even lower.
Yeah, comparatively speaking, I'd rather have Clinton, but a lot of people want something better, and that's why Dems are running over Repubs in terms of new voter registration. Under Clinton, the Dems continually lost congressional races. At a certain point, somebody would ask if this is truly a healthy republic with so many people not legitimizing government by casting a vote for anybody.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Totally agree...
Which is why I'm hopeful Obama does represent a true change.
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ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Not to mention the bank deregulation act of 1999
Edited on Mon May-12-08 07:24 PM by ben_meyers
which is a major cause of our economic woes today. Subprime mortgages and uncontrolled hedge funds would not be the problems that they are now.

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2008/03/deregulation-economic-crisis.html
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. Put don't know, heres why..
I think, under certain circumstances, it would be quite logical for a president to be able to run for a third term. However, with today's questions regarding the fairness of our voting system, I don't think it would be worth the risk.

Eight years of dubya is enough.
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Mitt Chovick Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. If two were enough for Washington then two is enuff (nt)
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. I no longer believe presidents should have first terms
If it were up to me, I do away with the office as we know it and substitute a figurehead president who calls general elections, accepts the resignation of an outgoing prime minister and asks the leader of the party with the most seats in the House to form a new government after elections.

Real political power would rest with the Prime Minister, a stronger version of the House Speaker, and his cabinet, a stronger version of congressional committee chairmen. The government could be given a vote of no confidence by the full House at any time for reasons less severe than high crimes and misdemeanors.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. A parliamentary or quasi-parliamentary system, in that regard, is more democratic.
The Prime Minister would hold the role of "chief executive," but the role of "head of state" would be vested in a president. In essence, the power of the presidency would be split apart, with the Prime Minister directly answerable to Parliament and the people, if they choose to invoke a recall referendum on the PM. In the presidential system, such as what we have, all the power is vested in the office, yet for all practical purposes the president is rather unaccountable to the people. Bush has amply demonstrated that, and there is no such thing as a recall referendum here.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. The current system
while, at times, seems clumsy has served the American people for 200 years. Don't see a need to completely dismantle the American system at this time.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I'd like to see that thesis defended
Since Selatius and I are the ones calling for radical change, we should go first in defending ours.

While the constitutional system of separation of powers and checks an balances has served us well for 200 years, we should recognize that by now it does no longer. We have witness in a span of forty years, the two most abusive presidents in American history, Nixon and Bush the Frat Boy. Both acted lawlessly in a belief that the president is above the law. Congress was strong enough to do something about it the first time, but not the second. Historians will argue for decades about whether the failure to impeach and remove Bush or Cheney was a failure of strength or will.

Congress, as an institution, failed to learn the lesson of Watergate and related crimes. It failed to remain as vigilant in the thirty-five years since the downfall of one tyrannical president as they were at that time. It was completely unprepared to act against a new tyrant, even worse than the first.

While President Nixon spied on Americans illegally and set the power of the federal government against his political opponents, Mr. Bush has done that and more. In addition the the NSA spying program and politically motivated prosecutions of Democratic office holders, most notably former Alabama Governor Don Siegelman, Mr. Bush also lied the nation into an unnecessary war, giving false reasons for going to war when in fact there was no reason at all. Mr. Bush then proceeded to ineptly prosecute that war, which perhaps could never have been won but is now most certainly lost. In prosecuting the unnecessary war against Iraq, Mr. Bush neglected to prosecute necessary action in Afghanistan aimed at capturing the principle suspect in a series of terrorist attacks unleashed against America on September 11, 2001. That individual, Osama bin Laden, remains at large, as do most of his lieutenants. Mr. Bush has, in violation of international treaties and agreements to which the United States is a party, to torture individuals detained in the so-called war on terror and to arrange for the prosecution for several of these individuals under a court system that denies the defendants due process of law by any reasonable standard.

Mr. Bush has made bogus claims of executive privilege in an attempt to thwart congressional investigations of the abuse of the Justice Department and asserted nonexistent constitutional powers as commander-in-chief continue the lethal occupation of Iraq. He has issued "signing statements" to legislation unilaterally voiding all or parts of an act of Congress, something he has no power to do by any stretch of the imagination. He approved of the outing of an intelligence agent as part of a political vendetta and authorized the dismissal of US Attorneys for refusing to use their offices to pursue partisan political prosecutions.

Mr. Bush further threatens to take the nation to war against Iran, asserting he needs no congressional authorization to do so; Mr. Bush is negotiating with the government of Iraq to commit American resources to the occupation of Iraq and asserts that no congressional approval is necessary.

In all this, Mr. Bush, and in many cases Mr. Cheney as well, warrants impeachment and removal.

It is, of course, a red herring to point out that Mr. Bush is not so much a sitting president as a usurper. Whether elected rightfully or appointed by crooked Supreme Court justices in a judicial coup d'etat, Mr. Bush has acted outside the constitutional limits on presidential power; he is a tyrant who acts as a dictator.

And Congress has done nothing to stop these abuses of power. The presidency today stands not as the office limited in power under the system devised by Mr. Madison and others, but as a center of absolute power in a system envisioned by Mr. Addington.

This situation cannot stand.

The system I propose is not so radical as it may appear. There are still checks and balances. There is still an independent judiciary. The difference is that political power shall rest in the lower house of Congress. Many of the powers now afforded the president will go to the upper house (the Senate). This would include the right to veto legislation by a majority vote. The Senate would still have the right to approve appointments, although these appointments would be made by the Prime Minister, who is a member of the House of Representatives. Another possible duty for the Senate would be the oversight of US Attorneys, completely removing them from the political realm and assuring their independence from political pressure.

Overall, the Prime Minister and his cabinet can be dismissed by a majority vote in the House. Not only could the Prime Minister be be removed for lying the nation into war, but for an inept response to a natural disaster. This results not in an immediate change in power, but in general elections. The Prime Minister of the United States will be accountable to the House of Representatives as a whole and ultimately, to the people. A lack of transparency, which has been a hallmark of Bush's dictatorial style, would land the Prime Minister in hot water with the opposition, with members of his own party and should be enough to lead to the fall of the government.

The genius of the present system, and the reason it worked so well for so long, is that it is based on a fear of power. Power has now become concentrated in the executive branch. Accordingly, the presidency has become antithetical to democracy and liberty. That is the crisis we now face.

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newmajority Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. Why don't we get rid of the electro-fraud machines first?
If we actually DID have another President like FDR, then three terms might be justified. But until we can guarantee a fair election, the real battle is getting a decent President elected to the first term.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-12-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. As many terms as the voters want. (nt)
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
24. I voted yes...
because I think we could use another four years of Bill Clinton right about now.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
25. Not just 'no'. HELLLLL NOOOO!!!
Dumbest idea ever.

Bill Clinton was a terrible President.

We'd have NAFTA and GATT squared.
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Freedom Train Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
27. Clinton could have been President on 9/11
if you had given Bush I another term first. Or if FDR had lived to run for a 5th term. Or if the revolutionary war had dragged on for another 4 years. Or...

Well, I guess you can see where I'm going with this. If anything we should take away one term, not give them yet another.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. FDR could not make it. Maybe if LBJ had decided
to run in 68 or maybe Carter getting a second term would be more realistic.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
33. I doubt our economy would be terribly improved.
The cancers been there for a while, festering.
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
34. Only if that president is a democrat.
Seriously, no!
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