Carolyn Jessop - Escaping from the FLDS and more videos

[Marrah_G]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJAvqc5u9KM

Polygamous Prophet WARREN JEFFS on the Negro Race #3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXo8qNxUlCU&feature=related

BANKING ON HEAVEN Polygamy Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI6pBftroEc&feature=related

Inside Warren Jeffs' world

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0RV4fKtKp0&feature=related

The Underground Railroad Escaping Polygamy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnhvcGH6fFE&feature=related

Underground Polygamy Railroad Fawn & Fawn Run!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HonSp_Lmjrk&feature=related

DAMNED TO HEAVEN - Warren Jeffs -FLDS- POLYGAMY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1cTk2cJQac

Warren Jeffs Instructing Child Brides on Marriage!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGqJIqe6LEE&feature=related

Former FLDS Member - "Life In A Cult"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHAbjuLT-Ic&feature=related

Damned to Heaven

http://www.freshfilm.com/damnedtoheaven/

[Lars39]

1. k&r

Thanks,Marrah_G.:hi:

[livetohike]

2. Marrah_G, a few months ago you recommended the book

Under the Banner of Heaven to me. I just read it yesterday. :scared: I had read several books on the LeBarons years ago. This cult is so sinister. I hope the state of TX doesn't back down on this.

[Marrah_G]

4. It's pretty scary

They are only a few notches better then the Taliban.

One of the scariest things is the local police are almost always members of the cult, giving the women no one to turn to.

[okasha]

29. In the case of the Yearning for Zion Ranch,

the local cops are the Schleicher County Sheriff's Department. They've been looking for a legal way to bust the place open since at least the winter of 2004/2005, and so has the Texas Attorney General's Office.

This is an especially disempowering sect for women and children. At least in other patriarchal faiths, including fundamentalist Islam and right-wing Christianity, a woman's soul is her own. In the FLDS, a woman can't be "called up" into enternal life--achieve salvation--unless she's married and her husband grants it to her. It takes a very brave person to pry herself loose from such a belief system, not to mention a physical way to get out of the compound.

[riderinthestorm]

48. I dunno about the other patriarchal religions allowing equality with men, even spiritually....

There's clauses about being an obedient wife. The qualifiers for women with these religions always ensure they are subservient to men - sure some say "just a tad" but it's there....

[lapislzi]

47. Please explain yourself

How exactly are the FLDS "a few notches better than the Taliban." I see no qualitative difference.

[Marrah_G]

50. Here is why:

In addition to the child brides the Taliban have the following rules for women (just a few examples), they take things to an even more extreme point then the FLDS, including forbidding women medical treatment of any kind (unless one of their mahram is a doctor.

http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm

Taliban restrictions and mistreatment of women include the:

1- Complete ban on women's work outside the home, which also applies to female teachers, engineers and most professionals.

2- Complete ban on women's activity outside the home unless accompanied by a mahram (close male relative such as a father, brother or husband).

3- Ban on women dealing with male shopkeepers.

4- Ban on women being treated by male doctors.

5- Ban on women studying at schools, universities or any other educational institution. (Taliban have converted girls' schools into religious seminaries.)

6- Requirement that women wear a long veil (Burqa), which covers them from head to toe.

7- Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in accordance with Taliban rules, or of women unaccompanied by a mahram.

8- Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles.

9- Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside marriage. (A number of lovers are stoned to death under this rule).

10- Ban on the use of cosmetics. (Many women with painted nails have had fingers cut off).

11- Ban on women talking or shaking hands with non-mahram males.

12- Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a woman's voice).

13- Ban on women wearing high heel shoes, which would produce sound while walking. (A man must not hear a woman's footsteps.)

14- Ban on women riding in a taxi without a mahram.

15- Ban on women's presence in radio, television or public gatherings of any kind.

16- Ban on women playing sports or entering a sport center or club.

17- Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their mahrams.

18- Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Taliban terms, these are "sexually attracting colors."

19- Ban on women gathering for festive occasions such as the Eids, or for any recreational purpose.

20- Ban on women washing clothes next to rivers or in a public place.

21- Modification of all place names including the word "women." For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden".

22- Ban on women appearing on the balconies of their apartments or houses.

23- Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen from outside their homes.

24- Ban on male tailors taking women's measurements or sewing women's clothes.

25- Ban on female public baths.

26- Ban on males and females traveling on the same bus. Public buses have now been designated "males only" (or "females only").

27- Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa.

28- Ban on the photographing or filming of women.

29- Ban on women's pictures printed in newspapers and books, or hung on the walls of houses and shops.

Apart from the above restrictions on women, the Taliban has:

- Banned listening to music, not only for women but men as well.

- Banned the watching of movies, television and videos, for everyone.

- Banned celebrating the traditional new year (Nowroz) on March 21. The Taliban has proclaimed the holiday un-Islamic.

- Disavowed Labor Day (May 1st), because it is deemed a "communist" holiday.

- Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them to Islamic ones.

- Forced haircuts upon Afghan youth.

- Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap.

- Ordered that men not shave or trim their beards, which should grow long enough to protrude from a fist clasped at the point of the chin.

- Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times daily.

- Banned the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, describing it as un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned and the birds shall be killed. The kite flying has also been stopped.

- Ordered all onlookers, while encouraging the sportsmen, to chant Allah-o-Akbar (God is great) and refrain from clapping.

- Ban on certain games including kite flying which is "un-Islamic" according to Taliban.

- Anyone who carries objectionable literature will be executed.

- Anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion will be executed.

- All boy students must wear turbans. They say "No turban, no education".

- Non-Muslim minorities must distinct badge or stitch a yellow cloth onto their dress to be differentiated from the majority Muslim population. Just like what did Nazis with Jews.

- Banned the use of the internet by both ordinary Afghans and foreigners.

And so on...

[lapislzi]

61. Thank you.

I appreciate your thoughtful response to my question. And, in the interest of full disclosure, I have not yet watched the videos in your OP because I'm at work (shouldn't even be doing this). And I am in no way trying to defend the indefensible--Taliban OR FLDS. I'm trying to establish an equivalency that I think exists in a very real sense.

But I would suggest to you that many of the restrictions imposed by the Taliban have been imposed on the FLDS women in a de facto way. They are no more "free" than the burqa'd women of Afghanistan. They are kept completely isolated from the rest of society, with no interaction. They wear clothing that sets them apart,for ostensibly the same reason (some male's idea of "modesty.) I could do a point-by-point comparison, but I think you get what I mean. "Interacting with male shopkeepers" for example (your point #3) is a moot point, because they're not permitted out of their compound. The effect is the same: complete domination by the adult males. A few of the restrictions are different, that's all. The difference is that the Taliban got control of an entire country. In that sense, I guess you could argue that the Taliban is "worse" because it somehow corralled a national consciousness/identity.

Other than that I see no difference.

[Marrah_G]

63. I agree with much of what you say

It really is only a matter of degree. Where an FLDS woman can stop and speak to another flds man about generic issues a woman under the Taliban rule could well be stoned to death for it. Where a woman might be beaten for wearing nail polish in the FLDS, a woman under Taliban rule would have fingers chopped off.

Etc etc etc.

They are both horrible groups who enslave women. One has taken it to a higher degree when given control of the government and the creation of laws.

[lapislzi]

65. Point taken. Agree to agree.

Maybe FLDS is more reluctant to kill its women because the pool of available recruits is smaller. They don't have the whole country to choose from--just their little inbred collection.

Thank you again for your thoughtful post.

[Marrah_G]

67. And thank for yours also

I think I found a kindred spirit in the fight against the oppression of women :)

[uppityperson]

74. Thanks lapislzi for your thoughts and posts.

I think you are right about the numbers, the size of the group being more limiting.

[uppityperson]

75. And thank you Marrah for posting that list and your thoughts on the differences/similarities.

Extremists, Fundamentalists, are very scary. Matters of degree but with many similarities.

[Sequoia]

62. I read that one and "Escape" also.

Both are pretty scary.

[CTyankee]

3. Jessop is a wonderful spokesperson for her cause.

She really has it all together for a woman with so many children who had to have real personal courage to escape the cult.

I applaud her and her integrity. She is truly a woman with passionate energy for her righteous cause.

[Marrah_G]

5. She is amazing

I hope people are taking time to view the links I gave.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. I wonder how far it has to go

before people will stop saying this is a matter of "freedom of religion" and realize it is child abuse. "Marrying off" an 8-year old? That's pedophilia as well as statutory rape!

[roguevalley]

37. call them a pedo. there is no law that is circumvented by religion.

if you hear anyone saying religion, call them out. they are showing their true selves.

[High Plains]

7. Here's another scary sect I read about on the internets:

Open Minded "Wiccans" Raping Children | Gaia Online14 Jan 2008 ...
www.gaiaonline.com/forum/morality-and-religion/open-minded-wiccans-raping-children/t.36783017/ - 106k

more on the wiccan pedophiliac-porn writers
Granted, Wiccans are generally more given (these days anyway) to pageantry and dramatic ... intoxication, and raping of children as Wiccan initiation rites; ...
daisybones.com/2007/07/06/more-on-the-wiccan-pedophiliac-porn-writers/ - 58k

I Was Just Wondering: Wiccans Jailed for Child Abuse27 Mar 2008 ...
Wiccans Jailed for Child Abuse.
WESTON, Wis. — An 11-year-old girl died after her parents used incantations for healing rather than seek ...
jesswundrun.blogspot.com/2008/03/wiccans-jailed-for-child-abuse.html - 91k

Now, I don't really have anything against Wiccans--to each their own--but I do want to suggest that it is really easy to smear just about anybody with just a little effort.

[Richard Steele]

8. We're all wearily familiar with your desperate need to divert attention from the FDLS child-rapists.

nm

[High Plains]

10. Ho-hum. Another contentless post.

[Richard Steele]

43. As opposed to your HUNDREDS of posts defending these child-rapists, which are RICH in content.

I really have to wonder why you are so TRANSPARENTLY DESPERATE
to make excuses for old men who turn little girls into sex slaves;
why you would spend so many hours throwing random misleading crap
into every FDLS thread.

Is there, perhaps, something you need to get off your chest, my fellow DUer? :think:

[Marrah_G]

11. Nice try- you are a real piece of work

The Frosts are a bastardization of Wicca- and are viewed with contempt by every Pagan I know.

Wiccans are not a large group who are under the control of any one person. We have no leader. There is no "sect" You can find isolated stories about abuse by the followers of any religion.

You desperation to defend these people has reached a new low.

The FLDS is a large cult where the oppression and abuse of women and children is mandated.

Your attempt to equate my faith with the things this cult is presently doing is disgusting.

You are content in being blinded as to the facts about this cult and refuse to look at any of the numerous information put out by people who have escaped the horrible situation brought about by Jeffs and his predecessors.

[High Plains]

16. It's not my purpose to slander Wicca.

Just to show how easy it is to pull something together if you really want to attack somebody.

Look, I find the FLDS pretty repugnant. But I'm not sure they should be destroyed.

They are sexist and repressive, yes. But someone can "escape" if he or she really wants to, no? (If one were restrained from leaving, would that not be kidnapping? All it would take is a phone call to report it, hoax or otherwise.)

I'm inclined to grant these people agency over their own lives. Yes, I know they are indoctrinated, and that makes the whole "free will" thing much more complicated, but still, if they want to leave, they can find a way.

I wonder: Would you be inclined to leave them in peace if they agreed to comply with age of consent laws? I'm thinking you don't really have an issue with polygamy per se, though I could be mistaken. Or must they be destroyed?

[Marrah_G]

17. There is an enormous amount of info out there

Not all successfully escape. You don't hear from the ones that are caught.

The child brides are only apart of the crimes going on in this cult.

There is a ton of information out there if you would actually look into it.

Free will implies choice and knowledge. The girls are now brought up in complete isolation with no knowledge of the outside world or their rights.

They think it is normal to be beaten, they don't understand that they have a lawful right to say no to sex, they think it is normal to have no education.

I really don't know what else to say to you. The information is out there. The lost boys and the girls who have escaped are telling their stories.

You seem to have no interest in any of it, except to continue to defend people because they cloak their crimes in religion.

Perhaps someday you will understand that all women have a right to be free, no matter where they are born.

I have no issue with Polygamy. I have a big issue with the oppression, abuse and enslavement of women.

[High Plains]

21. So that's a "no," I take it?

One question: How do they manage to get cell phones in their complete isolation?

You know, I live in an area where there are other religious freaks. They live in isolated compounds, they rarely come to town, the men all wear beards and funny hats, the women all wear those funny old-fashioned dresses. They have about four or five surnames among them. I don't know how sexist or repressive they are, although I imagine they're pretty patriarchal. Perhaps they're not as bad as the FLDS, although who knows--there isn't an industry devoted to exposing them. They mind their own business, are generally peaceable (though the young men sometimes come to town and get drunk and wild), and they make good sausage. I'm inclined to leave them in peace. They're Mennonites and Hutterites.

Okay, one more question (seriously): What if a woman chooses to live in a repressive society? What if she does not share your values? (Forgetting for the moment, the FLDS and their indoctrination). Can she choose that life?

[Marrah_G]

23. Here are your answers

"One question: How do they manage to get cell phones in their complete isolation?"

________________________

They were given them by the men so they could have communication with them while they were with CPS. CPOS had to take them away because the men were interfering with the investigation.

________________________

"You know, I live in an area where there are other religious freaks. They live in isolated compounds, they rarely come to town, the men all wear beards and funny hats, the women all wear those funny old-fashioned dresses. They have about four or five surnames among them. I don't know how sexist or repressive they are, although I imagine they're pretty patriarchal. Perhaps they're not as bad as the FLDS, although who knows--there isn't an industry devoted to exposing them. They mind their own business, are generally peaceable (though the young men sometimes come to town and get drunk and wild), and they make good sausage. I'm inclined to leave them in peace. They're Mennonites and Hutterites."

_________________________

Would you stand by and say nothing if you knew they were abusing their children? That group is very different then the type of oppression and abuse going on in the FLDS

_________________________

"Okay, one more question (seriously): What if a woman chooses to live in a repressive society? What if she does not share your values? (Forgetting for the moment, the FLDS and their indoctrination). Can she choose that life?"

_________________________

If a woman chooses to live like that, if she knows and understands her rights, if she has the ability to pack her children and walk away without having to escape in the dead of night and go into hiding, if the women then afford her own daughter the same knowledge and choices then no I would not have issue with that. But the women in the FLDS have none of that. They live a life of abuse and fear.
_________________________

[High Plains]

36. Thank you.

I want to think about your reply, but I'll get back to you.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

44. I've lived near Mennonites and Old Order Amish all my life

and they are NOT isolated from the mainstream society. In fact, both groups have stores and businesses where they interact with other folks. In fact, the health food store and one of the grocery stores I frequent are owned and operated by Mennonites, and when I lived in Illinois, I always went to the Amish store in Arthur to get cheese. Even conversed with the Amish in German, and they were friendly and willing to talk. So to compare these groups with the FLDS Church is really comparing apples and oranges, I think.

[riderinthestorm]

49. I second this post. We have draft horses

so we do business with the groups in both Arthur Illinois and Topeka Indiana - really old order Amish with some of them since working draft horses is pretty archaic. The women work in the local shops - even modern restaurants as waitresses for example. If you go to the harness shops, it's not unusual for the men to be working and the women running the place, ringing up the orders and keeping the books.

The women are educated (to the same degree as the men). They aren't sequestered. They live and thrive alongside modernity and are as out there in the community as you or I. There's no comparison to the FLDS cult at all other than there's more focus on agriculture within the group? But even that is fading as many Amish and Mennonite are shut out of owning land that has gotten so expensive or has been sold for development.

[Kitty Herder]

57. Excellent answers, Marrah G. nt

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

25. Then could you please 'pull something together" with attributions instead of posting unlinked stuff?

Sheesh.

[girl gone mad]

30. You find them repugnant..

and yet you spend all day every day here doing nothing else but defending them.

Odd.

[knitter4democracy]

34. Oh, for the love of Mike.

Did you not watch the first video--Jessops giving a detailed account in her own words on how her ex could call the cops to have her pulled over, ticketed, and brought back? How she had to get her kids from rooms they shared with half-siblings all born around the same time, and not wake up the entire house while she was at it? That's not leaving when she felt like it--that's escaping.

I get it. You're worried about the Constitution and the slippery slope argument. Got it. Please don't get so set on that, though, that you ignore the fact that at least some men there waterboard their infant children, that women have been locked up in mental wards on the word of their husbands when they've tried to leave or have rebelled in some way, that girls as young as 12 and 13 are being married off and impregnated, and that women and children are swapped around the men like chattel.

If you're really okay with all this, then you need to go back to the 1870s or earlier. This group is breaking a multitude of laws, and you're defending their right to ignore the Constitution by using that document that they'd wipe their arses with.

[Richard Steele]

42. No, I'm afraid you really don't "get it", my friend.

This poster doesn't actually give a rat's ass about "the Constitution
and the slippery slope argument"...

That's just one of the DOZENS of ploys he's thrown up in his
attempts to "minimize, cover up, spin, divert attention from,
and provide a smoke-screen for" this child-raping cult.

The FDLS has spent 100 years indoctrinating its female offspring
to serve as juvenile sex slaves...

And "High Plains" has spent 100 HOURS in the last two weeks
doing everything he can to throw the FDLS threads off-topic.

He's done EVERYTHING a disruptor can do to provide cover for child-rapists.
He's so full of shit, you could give him an enema and bury what was left in a matchbox.

I've saved it all to disk- PM if you'd like to see it sometime.

Sincerely,
Richard

[knitter4democracy]

45. Ahh. Wow. That's messed up.

Is he related to them or connected somehow that he feels the need to personally defend them? He mentions living in the area and knowing some of them. Odd.

[yardwork]

54. The FLDS have attorneys, a public relations firm, and a ton of money.

It is not far-fetched to conjecture that the FLDS is paying people to spread disinformation on online bulletin boards about the case. That's what it looks like to me, anyway.

[Marrah_G]

58. I don't believe he is connected to the FLDS

I believe he is a passionate libertarian type that as gone over the top in his support of freedom of religion.

I am hoping that perhaps some of what we have said will make him stop and think and then realize that women are never chattel in this country, no matter whom gives birth to them.

[yardwork]

59. Maybe. I'm skeptical, though.

I smell employee.

[Richard Steele]

78. I am as well.

If he were just a "passionate libertarian", there are dozens
of issues he could be "passionate" about here at DU.
But, for some reason, he seems pretty fixated on this one.
His excuses and justifications keep changing- the only CONSTANT
is his defense of these child-rapists.

[LanternWaste]

52. Like Shawn Hornbeck...?

"(If one were restrained from leaving, would that not be kidnapping?"


Like Shawn Hornbeck...?

[yardwork]

77. It's kind of a moot point, since the state of Texas has not moved on the Wiccans.

In fact, as far as I know, there is currently no investigation of any Wiccan groups anywhere in the country. However, there is a massive investigation going on in Texas - not a state known for any liberal bias - against the FLDS.

I'm all in favor of defending civil rights. But there are laws against raping children.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

24. Did you notice that your last link is about Christianity? "wiccan" was a hoax story? oops

The story was first posted with words changed from the real story, which showed them as Christians.
"Okay that's not really the story. The above story is true but the religion in question is Christianity. Here's the real story."

Your first link is a forum and we all know how realistic ALL the info posted on forums is. The second link is rather odd, not saying much of anything except against some weirdo claiming things.

Oops

[LanternWaste]

51. Almost as easy as it is to actually research...

"that it is really easy to smear just about anybody with just a little effort."

Almost as easy as it is to actually research, collate, and then present us with valid information as does Marra...

[Marrah_G]

53. Thank you for the kind words.

[Richard Steele]

9. K&R

[MethuenProgressive]

12. kicking and rec'ing

Thanks, Marrah

[zabet]

13. k and r

Watching the Dateline special on this right now...The FLDS.

[Marrah_G]

19. I'll have to look for it online- My daughter is hogging the TV

But she is watching the Kiterunner- So I couldn't turn it off on her :)

[DawgHouse]

14. thanks for the links!

[golddigger]

15. K&R...thanks Marrah for the links. Simply Horrific...nt

[Breeze54]

18. Great post and video's "for those that refuse to see'...

Awesome post, Marrah_G!

Good job!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:kick: & Recommended

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

26. K & R, astonishing that there are apologists for this abuse of women and children,

here at DU.

:kick:

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clintonista2]

27. K&R thanks for posting!

[Branjor]

28. K & R

n/t

[knitter4democracy]

33. That last one is super creepy.

Married women crying because they let a boy touch them when they were younger when they're married to a man with several wives who sleeps around in a different bed every night?! Freakin' creepy.

[Marrah_G]

46. His voice makes me want to run away. SO creepy

[riderinthestorm]

35. K & R.

You are beautiful. Thanks for posting these. :hug:

[ismnotwasm]

38. Thank you for posting

K&R

[woo me with science]

39. Let's be very careful

about horror stories of abuse. Ms. Jessup is associated with Tapestry Against Polygamy, a group with broader associations that raise concern. In particular, there may be links to "survivor" groups that facilitate the recovery of abuse memories through therapy. Some of the most horrible stories you hear about FLDS are suspiciously similar to other survivor/recovered memory narratives. I am not talking about the spiritual marriages between younger girls and older men, which do appear to reflect the beliefs of this group and are of great concern in any event. I am talking about the more extreme narratives of abuse, such as passing girls around in groups of men, sending girls overseas to be used as sexual slaves, and waterboarding babies. We just don't know if these things actually occurred, and I am becoming more skeptical as I read the narratives and see the links posted on sites having to do with these groups.

This does not mean that a fundamentalist religious sect that condones or pushes marriages between young teens and older men should not be investigated and the underage marriages stopped. I am just saying that we need to be extremely cautious about the reliability of the most heinous eyewitness accounts and careful about where they are coming from. The recovered memory industry in this country is rampant, and it makes sense to me that someone would leave one cult and join another. It will be extremely important to use actual EVIDENCE (i.e., underage pregnancy, physical evidence, DNA testing, and testimony of people actually in the compound) before taking as fact the memories of someone who may be in questionable therapy to deal with her FLDS experiences.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

40. Holy shit, how do you walk that f**king tightrope?

And, are you paid to do it? Because, if you're not, you should be. That's a bronze in balance bean for sure. :-)

[Marrah_G]

41. I think they will learn a great deal from the ones who chose to leave this time

They will also learn alot from the older kids.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to even get someone into the cult undercover because there members are literally born to the cult.

Right now we have information from those who have escaped or were thrown out. I believe there will be alot more information forthcoming now.

One thing many people don't know is the reason for the Texas compound. Originally Texas was told it was a hunting ranch. Later the FLDS admitted it was to get away from AGs in Utah and AZ that were getting more aggressive in persuing casesw against the FLDS.

There are a few cases that the courts have been able to persue and to win, but it is difficult due to the secrecy of the cult itself.

[woo me with science]

70. Yes.

The most important evidence will come from the children they have removed. The information coming from those who have been out of the group for a while and possibly subject to other influences must be assessed very carefully.

[yardwork]

55. What you say makes sense, but it's no reason not to pursue the real evidence that exists.

Maybe some of the stories are exaggerated or false. I don't know. But the state of Texas - not known as a bastion of liberalism - certainly found enough evidence to make a very drastic move against this group. I'd say they found clear evidence of law-breaking.

[woo me with science]

68. Yes, that is my point exactly.

It is important to stick to the actual evidence and not get carried away by hysteria. I suspect there will be plenty of actual evidence to go on.

[Marrah_G]

69. I agree with that completely

I am just thrilled that they may finally have the chance to bring these people to justice.

[Kitty Herder]

76. I hope that Utah and Arizona will have the courage to follow suit.

This abuse has been tolerated here too long. I know they're afraid of a replay of the Short Creek raids, but I think there are enough people who have escaped from this who are willing to speak out, that perhaps the state will have little choice but to prosecute those who do abuse and rape children among the polygamous cults. And not just the FLDS, but the Kingstons (whose children I went to school with), and all the others.

[LanternWaste]

56. Thanks for posting this, Marrah...

Thanks for posting this, Marrah.


You're one of the good ones... :hi:

[Kitty Herder]

60. Listening to Warren Jeffs is creeping me out!! I'm not sure I can handle it. He

sounds just like any other Mormon man speaking in sacrement meeting! It's creeping me out because his teachings are like the original teachings of Brigham Young and Joseph Smith and that's where I fucking come from! Those are my roots! I'm crying and I feel like screaming!

I'm so, so glad that I was raised in the mainstream Mormon church because as patriarchal and screwed up as it is, it's not as bad the various polygamous sects (not just the FLDS) that sprouted off from it. But what if I had been born a hundred years earlier? My fate as a Mormon woman would be like that of these FLDS women.

I'm listening to Jeffs speak about the "negro race" and it sounds just like the stuff I learned in Mormon seminary. Yes, I was taught that blacks were descended from Cain and that's why they didn't deserve to have the priesthood until 1978. And that was only because the prophet prayed for God to allow it because it grieved him so. (Had nothing to do with political pressure. :sarcasm:)

edited to add: I'm sorry if this post is disjointed and crazy, but I'm feeling very emotional. My heart aches, literally aches for these poor women caught in this mess.

[Marrah_G]

64. I'm sorry

I know it must be painful for you to hear these things. Are you still an LDS?

:hug:

[Kitty Herder]

71. No. I gave that up years ago. And thank God, I was in the mainstream Mormon

church which is easy to leave. You just say you're through. They still harass me sometimes, sending people by to preach to me, and "invite me out Relief Society", but they certainly don't beat people when they try to leave.

I've always known how lucky I was to not have been born to the polygs, but these videos are really bringing it home. I've known polygamists; I've read about them, but for some reason these vids are really affecting me.

I think the reason they are affecting me so much is that Warren Jeffs sounds so creepily, eerily familiar. He sounds just like ordinary mainstream Mormon men, with the words he uses, his speech patterns, his tonality. That gives me the heeby jeebies.

Thanks for posting these. They're creepy, but they make me want to find some way to help women and children trapped in polygamy.

[Marrah_G]

72. Check this link

http://www.polygamy.org/

I bet they can give you some ideas of how you could help.

[Kitty Herder]

73. Thanks!! nt

[Kitty Herder]

66. I just listened to that "Damned to Heaven" clip where one of the women says,

"If that is what heaven is, I gladly accepet hell." I said that exact same thing when I was a teenager!! I'm glad I'm not the only one.

And I was in the mainstream Mormon church. But the heavens of the mainstream Mormons and the FLDS are the same.

edited to add: I just realized that woman is Flora Jessop, I didn't recognize her in that clip at first. She's my new hero.