Can we all agree swiftboating works and we need to embrace it in the fall

[RB TexLa]

Those of us who want to win need to drown out those who want to take the "high and mighty road." The first 527 group running attack ads that draw repudiation from our nominee is the one that's getting my money.

[senseandsensibility]

1. The media won't show our ads 24/7

for free as they did with the Kerry swiftboat ads. So not only would we be sinking to the repugs' level, it wouldn't be effective. The Kerry ads were effective because of the media doing endless stories on them, and NOT pointing out that they were lies.

[elizfeelinggreat]

2. It does seem to work

and that's unfortunate. Why do campaigns make everything so complicated nowadays? I know we want intelligent debate but we've lost the ability to get simple points across such as greed vs morality. We can beat them into oblivion on that one EVERY TIME if we didn't get caught up in the minutia. No one makes THEM explain every detail and that's where your argument makes the most sense. A Democratic candidate is expected to be able to counter every stupid reference a 'journalist' throws at them whereas the republicans throw slime and run. We need someone to throw the Ugly Republican Truth and not care if they try to muddy the water with their distractions. Throw another ugly truth before they recover and keep doing it - hey overloading our ability to recover has been working for this administration but we can do it with the TRUTH.

So that's my long way of saying that we shouldn't need to swiftboat if we could just get out the facts to most of the voters. ( They'll probably consider the truth swiftboating at first anyway because they've never been given adequate information before.)

I think you're right that it can be done more powerfully by 527 groups.

For example:

McCain insisting he supports the troops/vets and then works against bills that help them.
His willingness to continue war in the Middle East forever.

Republicans in recent history as warmongers and profiteers. Name names and figures!

Most importantly what republican "reforms" did to: healthcare, infrastructure, military preparedness, education ... the list goes on and on. We don't even need fancy numbers, just mention those reforms and ask people if they're better off now that we have them.

Explain why republicans oppose unions (corporate profit) and explain what unions have achieved for American workers. Ask people if they're better off now that corporate profits and executive compensations are astronomical but we don't have adequate insurance, pensions, 40 hour work weeks or living wages anymore.

If the connections are made clear I think most people will choose Democratic principles over republican principles every time. If this were not true the republicans would not have worked so hard to control the information we get every night.

[L. Coyote]

3. So the M$M can assault those doing so. NOT a good idea.

[TooBigaTent]

4. A-fucking-men!!! As long as the Dems take the "high & mighty" (love that phrase) road,

they will continue to be outmanuevered by the pukes. Maybe in a perfect world, things like elections would be decided by a rational debate of ideas. But Amerika is so far from perfect that it isn't even on the same continent.

I do think that a lot of Dems really like the martyr identity and revel in being beaten by "cheaters." They would rather hold on to their naive principles than actually win and accomplish anything.

I think "swiftboating" is only the first of many tactics we should employ. All is fair in love and war, and this is war. We know who the enemy is, but still refuse to fight.

[Richard Steele]

5. It only works when the media is on your side & aids your efforts. Dumb idea for Dems. nm