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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 04:08 PM
Original message
Because we Say so
Edited on Tue Apr-22-08 04:16 PM by Time for change
Anyone who has been raised in an authoritarian household is quite familiar with the phrase “Because I say so”. It is the ultimate way to cut off a conversation, as it leaves no room for argument.

In a democracy, the leader of the nation can’t say “Because I say so”, because it would sound childish and too authoritarian for a democracy. But there are other, more subtle ways to accomplish the same effect. By encouraging certain assumptions, a nation’s leaders effectively limit debate to such a narrow framework that it has almost exactly the same effect as saying “Because I say so”.

David Edwards, in an article titled “The Limits of the Possible”, explains how this kind of process turns a democracy into something less than a democracy:

Today we are living in a society that creates the powerful impression that barring a few issues of inequality and distribution of wealth, freedom has been more or less fully attained for the majority of people… As a result, the majority of us feel little urgent need to strive for freedom…

While it is true that we in the West have largely escaped the physical chains and violence of state control, these have been replaced by psychological chains which are, in many ways, even more effective if only because they are invisible and thus far more difficult to perceive. Because we are talking here about manipulation of thought…

Edwards goes on to list the types of thought manipulation that our leaders use on us, including the following:

 Misinformation and withholding of information
 Leading us to believe that “the search for truth is the business of ‘experts’”
 Presenting us with “the spectre of awesome enemies”
 Using scapegoats
 Encouraging us to “idolize some all-powerful father figure”
 Taking advantage of “our need to belong with the herd”

Many of these methods were on display in last Thursday night’s Democratic Presidential debate in Philadelphia, moderated by two puppets from ABC “News”. Let’s take a quick look at some examples:


The use of thought manipulation in the April 17th Democratic Presidential debate

In a recent post I discussed numerous ways in which two ABC stooges, George Stephanopoulos and Charlie Gibson, used the April 17th debate as an attempt to destroy Barack Obama’s candidacy and to push some of ABC’s favorite right wing talking points. Here are some examples of their attempt at manipulation of the American people.

Misinformation
Gibson repeatedly lectured Obama on the “fact” that raising capital gains taxes lowers government revenue, when in fact most economists believe that it does just the opposite. Gibson’s purpose in doing this was clearly to make Obama look ignorant for his promise to raise capital gains taxes, and perhaps more important, to misinform the American people on this subject.

Telling us that we should leave the search for truth up to the ‘experts’
Gibson asked Obama a question about the Iraq War which was really more of a dogmatic statement than it was a question. Basically, he was lecturing Obama that his plans to end the war are ill advised, and that as President he should do whatever his military commanders tell him to do:

If the military commanders in Iraq came to you on day one, and said, this kind of withdrawal would destabilize Iraq, it would set back all of the gains that we have made, no matter what, you're going to order those troops to come home? General Petraeus was in Washington. You both were there when he testified. Saying that the gains in Iraq are fragile and are reversible. Are you essentially saying: I know better than the military commanders here?

The question of whether or not to continue a war is not just a matter of military tactics and strategy. It has tremendous moral implications – implications that bear upon where we as a people want our nation to go and what we want it to be. Only in a military dictatorship do civilians unquestionably accept and act upon whatever the military tells them to do. Yet, here we have a high level representative of a major “news” network telling the American people that we should do exactly that.

Presenting us with the spectre of awesome enemies
The above noted statement by Gibson, which if acted upon could condemn us to continuing the Iraq War indefinitely, is predicated upon instilling the fear of so-called “Islamic Fascism” into the American people. Because of that fear we are expected to accept war against a nation that posed no threat to us when the war began and still poses no threat to us. No reasonable explanation for the war has ever been provided to us. Yet, based on fear alone, we are expected to accept the utter devastation of a sovereign country and their people (and our soldiers too), in our name, using our money.

Use of scapegoats
Given our current recession, 47 million Americans with no medical insurance, 3% of Americans facing foreclosures on their homes, unaffordable education costs, and increasing poverty levels, one might have thought that a Presidential debate hosted by a major news network would have included one or more questions on those subjects. Instead, we get a question directed at the one black candidate in the race, asking him how he would prevent wealthy black people from taking advantage of affirmative action programs.


The Iraq War as a prime example of thought manipulation taking advantage of herd mentality

Of all the types of thought manipulation used by those who hold power in our country, perhaps the most effective and sinister is that which takes advantage of “our need to belong with the herd”. This takes the form of teaching us from a young age to believe that our nation is intrinsically so morally pure that to question the motives of our leaders in matters pertaining to war is “unpatriotic” at best, and treasonous at worst. Unquestioning allegiance to our leaders is the very definition of “patriotism” in this view.

Noam Chomsky uses a straight forward, euphemism-free style to make this point in the starkest of terms, in his book, “What we Say Goes”:

The United States is an outlaw state, and it is accepted by the intellectual class here that it should be an outlaw state… There is no criticism of this… There is a huge debate about the invasion of Iraq, but no question about whether we have a justification to do it. Of course, we have the automatic justification to do it – because it’s us. We have a justification to do anything. In fact, if you look at the so-called debate about Iraq, it’s at approximately the level of a high school newspaper commenting on the local sports team. You don’t ask whether the team has a right to win, you just ask how they can win… The question of whether the United States has a right to win in Iraq is unthinkable.

If you doubt the accuracy of Chomsky’s statement, ask yourself how many U.S. politicians have questioned the morality of our invasion and occupation of Iraq. The only 2008 Presidential candidate who even mentioned this was Dennis Kucinich, when he had the courage to tell the American people that the motive for the Iraq War was (and is) to gain access to Iraqi oil. Even John Edwards, who I supported for President when it became evident that Kucinich had no chance, would not dare to question the motives of an American President. It’s ok to criticize the war and George Bush’s conduct of the war based on practical grounds. But to question it on moral grounds would be to cross a line that only a rare politician dares to cross. To do so would be to invite accusations of lacking “patriotism”, and it would be one of the greatest risks that a politician could take.

That raises an interesting and important question. Now that I support Obama for the Presidency, and given that he is all but certain to be the Democratic nominee, would I want him to be forthright in discussing the moral reasons why we should cease our occupation of Iraq? On the one hand, I hope to God that he really does have moral objections to it, and that he’s just holding them back for political reasons. But would I want him to take the political risk of voicing those objections, knowing that the consequence could very well be a McCain Presidency? The answer to that question of course depends on how great one believes the risk to be. At this time I judge it to be too great to be worth taking that risk. I hope Obama doesn’t do it – until he is elected.


The consequences of our lack of moral compass

The most direct consequence of our nation’s failure to ever question its motives or its morality is that we develop a view of our motives and actions that is greatly at odds with reality. Chomsky explains:

When you conquer somebody and suppress them, you have to have a reason. You can’t just say, “I’m a son of a bitch and I want to rob them.” You have to say it’s for their good, they deserve it, or they actually benefit from it. We’re helping them. That was the attitude of slave owners. Most of them didn’t say, “Look, I’m enslaving these people because I want easily exploitable, cheap labor for my own benefit.” They said, “We’re doing them a favor. They need it.”

Thus, the failure to question ourselves means that we have an extremely distorted view of ourselves. Arrogance breeds arrogance, which is accompanied by blindness.

And that means that, unless we somehow adopt a different attitude we will continue on this path until it destroys us, and world civilization along with us. Chomsky explains our predisposition that will lead to World War III unless we somehow develop the ability to look into our own eyes and see what we have become:

It entrenches the fundamental principle that we have a right to use violence anywhere we like and nobody has a right to deter it…The presupposition is that the United States owns the world. If that’s not the case, if you reject that, then you can’t debate whether Iran is interfering in Iraq… Only if you accept the assumption that the United States rules the world by right can you then ask whether someone else is interfering in a country that we invaded and occupied… One corollary is that the only thing that matters is the costs to us.


Conclusion

Only the morally blind could believe that our invasion and occupation of Iraq is morally justified. George Bush and Dick Cheney claim that we are doing it for the benefit of the Iraqi people. Any idiot could tell you that if we did it for their benefit we wouldn’t have killed 4% of their civilian population, made refugees out of 20%, left 90% of the remainder with a desire to see us leave, and devastated their infrastructure. And then our leaders act outraged over the fact that the Iraqis won’t cooperate with us “after all we’ve done for them”.

Therefore, it is evident that as a nation we have become morally blind. Our nation was founded upon the idea that all men are created equal and have an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Most of our citizens claim to adhere to a religion that tells us to treat others as we would like to be treated and to love our neighbors. Yet, we behave as if we own the world, and that we have the right to do whatever we want to any of the world’s inhabitants in order to attain the mysterious purposes that our leaders say we need to attain – for whatever excuse they think they can get away with.

That is not to say that all, or even necessarily most Americans feel this way. Many are simply blissfully ignorant. Many others simply don’t have the capability for independent thought necessary to resist the barrage of thought manipulation that we’re subjected to. Still others use psychological denial to avoid facing truths that they can’t emotionally handle. And many others do in fact recognize the immorality of our nation’s imperial activities, but they feel powerless to do anything about it. How many fall into each of these categories? How would we know? Pollsters never ask questions that address these issues. They simply ask whether we are for against the war, without daring to address the reasons for being against it. These issues are never discussed by our national corporate news media. David Edwards sums up this mystery in the last paragraph of his article:

In short, we can be manipulated in any number of subtle ways… The consequence of this is that it is not enough simply to succeed in unearthing the facts about, say, our government's complicity in human rights atrocities abroad, because fundamental areas of our belief system may have been subject to the same influences which made the recovery of those facts so difficult. We may have gained the facts, but not the belief that is up to us to do anything about them; either because we are not "experts', or because truth, compassion and understanding seem a side issue and even a hindrance in our lives… The world is full of examples of individuals who have glimpsed the horror of what is being done in their name in the Third World, or who have collided with the limits of justice and freedom in their own lives, but have turned away for exactly this reason.

What is the answer to our way out of this situation – which will destroy the world if not reversed? I can’t answer that. But I do like what Chomsky had to say about this on the last page of his book, as at least a partial answer:

I don’t think it’s even a question of taking risks. It’s a matter of being decent. Love of people? Yes, of course, or at least commitment to them and their needs.

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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think that David Edwards has nailed it.
I harken back to the old problem of getting a toddler to eat his veggies. You don't say.. "Do you want some carrots?" You say "Which do you want, carrots or beans?"
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Off to the Greatest Page with ye! K & R Great post. n/t
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. Thank you
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I believe Chomsky nails it, morally blind it is.
Thanks for the thread, Time for change.:thumbsup:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. I find Chomsky's writing so refreshing -- He really puts things in a clear light for us
When I first read a book by him in the early 90s, I found his writing too confrontational. Perhaps I wasn't ready for it back then. I've come to realize that he more on target than I thought at the time.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Impeachment is off the table.
Nancy says so. Americans by and large don't see the "war" as productive of ANYTHING. Cheney says, "So?"
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. History won't be kind to either Cheney OR Pelosi...
Pity. Pelosi could have made history, but she chose compromise and acquiescence instead.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. That is such a shame
With Cheney, there is absolutely nothing he could do that would be worse than I would expect of him.

But it's so difficult to understand why Nancy would take impeachment off the table and leave it there. :(
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. That's because the table is being used for water-boarding
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. They couldn't impeach. They didn't have the votes. This has been explained again and again.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. It's been explained again and again that nobody knows how many votes would
become available once impeachment hearings are begun and the American people become much more familiar with the myriad crimes committed by Bush and Cheney. Our corporate news media barely covers these crimes. Most of us would expect televised hearings to have a substantial effect on voters.

Once that happens, if support for impeachment goes way up, which I assume it would, Republican Senators would be in the position of either supporting it or putting their seats in grave jeopardy. Either way we win.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. Impeachment Now or Apocalypse Later
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x354438

Maybe, just maybe impeachment would busy the bastards with running around trying to cover their own butts rather than blowing up everyone else's. :evilgrin:
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R "...manipulation of thought ..." if any. Authoritarianism...
...of one kind or another -- religious, political, "academic" -- has produced a population too willing to go along, just as happened in totalitarian Europe in the '30s.

It seems a good time to post this again:

My Country Awake

Where the mind is without fear and the head held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by Thee into ever-widening thought and action;
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.

by Rabindranath Tagore



I assume the "Thee" in this poem refers to his idea of God. The concept of God that most right-wing religious people embrace has the opposite effect; i.e. adherence to authority rather than free thought.

Another great article. Thanks, as always, for your efforts.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thank you puebloknot -- Very nice thoughts in that poem
That certainly is not our country that the poet is talking about.

Do you know what country and time period Tagore is referring to?
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Tagore was a native of India
I found this online:

Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941) was the youngest son of Debendranath Tagore, a leader of the Brahmo Samaj, which was a new religious sect in nineteenth-century Bengal and which attempted a revival of the ultimate monistic basis of Hinduism as laid down in the Upanishads. He was educated at home; and although at seventeen he was sent to England for formal schooling, he did not finish his studies there. In his mature years, in addition to his many-sided literary activities, he managed the family estates, a project which brought him into close touch with common humanity and increased his interest in social reforms. He also started an experimental school at Shantiniketan where he tried his Upanishadic ideals of education. From time to time he participated in the Indian nationalist movement, though in his own non-sentimental and visionary way; and Gandhi, the political father of modern India, was his devoted friend. Tagore was knighted by the ruling British Government in 1915, but within a few years he resigned the honour as a protest against British policies in India.



Martin Sheen has read this poem on television several times, with an eye to the parallels expressed in it for our country.

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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. sobar redoyai Rabindranath, jeto nayai Nezrul
My spelling is bad, but the phrase in Bengali means "In each man's heart there is a Tagore, and in each man's head a Nezrul" Nezrul Islam being another Bengali poet. My roommate was discussing some issue that I seemed to be ignorant of and said something like "don't your poets teach you that?" I replied "In America we do not learn from poets. Only scientists have truth." Sort of the Shakespeare vs. the second Law of Thermodynamics issue of Lord Snow's "Two cultures" lecture where he complained about the gap of incomprehension between literary and scientific intellectuals.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. To support your point about literary and scientific intellectuals ...
Edited on Thu Apr-24-08 01:40 PM by puebloknot
(Edited to correct a typo.)

I once dated a physicist who told me, boldly and loudly, that Shakespeare was "a prick," and that literature had no socially redeeming value at all. He explained that unless I understood The Calculus, I could not possibly understand my own life.

He was "in his cups" when he was pontificating about all this. He was often in his cups. I live in Santa Fe, just down the road from Los Alamos, where they made the bomb. I know people who were deeply involved in that project. I used to work as an administrative assistant in a university physics department. I've observed that an appreciation for alcoholic beverages often goes hand in hand with a defense of what modern technology has wrought.

But for the record: My father returned from fighting Hitler in Europe, and was preparing to deploy to Japan when Hiroshima was hit. The bomb may very well have saved my own father's life, while obliterating the lives of many other Japanese fathers, and mothers, and children. The old argument about whether the atomic bomb caused less death (for Americans) than an invasion of Japan would have yielded rages on. And a recent article I read indicated that Japan was working to create its own version of the atomic bomb.

I've seen that the opening of Pandora's Box with the advent of the bomb destroyed the wellbeing of people who gave their intellect and their energy to create that monstrous weapon, and that the "sins" of the fathers are rested on the generations.

Most of the scientists I've had personal experience with are *not* simply technological zombies, BTW. They have a love for music and art and good food and good wine. Too many are pulled into compromise because they have to make a living. Most would prefer to work in areas concerned with social justice and the betterment of all mankind in terms of education and medical advances. I continue to hope for a day when the voices of poets will hold equal sway with the voices of the scientists. Further, I hope that world events will not put well-meaning scientists in positions of compromise which will haunt them and their progeny for generations to come. We all swim in the sea into which we were born, and sometimes there are no good choices.

My daughter and I watched some Nova sessions on television last night, having to do with some of the truly visionary efforts of scientists to clean up our oceans. I would like to think that poets could stand at the waters edge and recite their words of healing for our oceans, with good effect. In this case, the voices of the scientists are our best hope (inspired by the reading of poetry, we can hope)!

Thank you for responding to my post. Now I'll have to explore the writing of Nezrul Islam.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Lovely read
bookmarking.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. Thank you
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Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Great post. K&R.
Inventing Reality.
Manufacturing Consent.

This is a well understood system of population control.
Thought control in democratic societies.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. Fabulous post. Only halfway thru, but emailing it out. K&R! nt
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. Thank you -- great to hear that it's getting wider distribution
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. K & R . nt
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. The inquisition by ABC was a terrible display of how much we have succumbed.
My gawd, but we are in dire straits.

More valuable information and insight from you, T4C. Thank you.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. It was the worst I've seen and probably the worst ever done
Thank you BushDespiser.
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PinkyisBlue Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
14. Good writing. We have become morally blind indeed.
"Therefore, it is evident that as a nation we have become morally blind. Our nation was founded upon the idea that all men are created equal and have an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Most of our citizens claim to adhere to a religion that tells us to treat others as we would like to be treated and to love our neighbors."

I believe the idea of pursuit of happiness has been so distorted by many of the greedy folks in today's society that they see the pursuit as only their pursuit, and they don't care that their actions are hurting the pursuit of other people. Unfortunately, the (so called) happiness of many of these people depends on acquiring lots of money and power, and no matter how much they have, they want more. To achieve their happiness, people are exploited in our own country as well as in other countries.

In order to be happy, a person generally needs to have basic needs met, which requires a certain amount of money: adequate food, shelter, health care, etc. Most people are happy when these needs are met. With the widening income gap, a growing number of people in our country can no longer afford these basics and are becoming increasingly unhappy. When enough people see that their needs are not and cannot be met under the current system, they will demand change. How or when this change will occur is anyone's guess.

I see that things are starting to reach the point where something will have to give. People are having to pawn off family heirlooms to make ends meet, and what will happen when there's nothing left of value? The crime rate may get really high and/or there may be some rioting.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. Yes -- The widening income gap leads to widening gaps in political power
which leads to a more widening income gap. And it will continue until the people rise up and demand that it be changed. First though, they'll have to understand a lot of basic tricks that have been played on them. As long as they think that trickle down economics, radical corporate deregulation, and perpetual war are good things, they aren't likely to do much to change things.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
18. K&R
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
19. America began as a slave state. Our claim to a "moral compass" has always been a fraud.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Yes, we began as a slave state, but we did make a lot of progress over the years
We've done a lot of bad things throughout our history. And we've done some good things too. Under the Bush/Cheney administration we've taken substantial steps backwards.
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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
21. The war in Iraq is immoral--there I have said it.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Immoral does not even begin to describe
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 03:23 PM by Karenina
the *atrocity currently being commited in American's names. It is nothing less than a genocide that will NEVER be forgiven in this milleneum. Cheney says "SO?" Where are the "good Americans" who find such disdain and disregard so unpalatable that they are willing to go to the extraordinary lengths of clicking on Wexler's site to support his effort to impeach the war criminal? It's been up since December. The response is PITIFUL.

Don't mind me, vssmith. I'm beside myself in despair at what America has become.
Welcome to DU!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
22. I cringe everytime I hear a democrat
suggest "it is time for the Iraqis to stand up". Shame shame shame on them all.

K&R! Excellent yet again TFC. :)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. I cringe also when they do that
I guess they feel that that's what it takes to show their "patriotism". Have to come up with some excuse for what we're doing there, so we make them the scapegoats.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
32. GREAT SOURCES!!!!
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
35. And the sheeple say "Baaaa!"
I truly hope we are on the verge of change for the better. Great post.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
37. Thank you so very much for sharing
It very well summarizes that feeling in the pit of my stomach.

I think it's going to get much much worse before it gets better. As rabid individualists we have to feel the pain of our system before we feel it's injustice.

Not trying to claim ANY sort of moral superiority or anything like that whatsoever here but we have a saying on Passover that I have always really liked

"Wheresoever any man is a slave no man is free." and combine that with "It is not what god did for me when he set me free from the land of Egypt but what he did for you." It is explained in our particular Hagadot (Passover Seder Guides) that for a person to understand injustice and pain they have to feel it themselves. Nearly the entire Seder is devoted to ritualizing actions that tie the experience of the exodus to food and philosophy (eating bitter herbs, tasting saltwater to taste tears, etc).

By placing ourselves apart and above the rest of the world and apart and above the "others" in our own society we dehumanize them and can justify evil and injustice against them. The most versatile tool in the facist playbook is nationalism indeed.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. "Wheresoever any man is a slave no man is free."
Yes, I have a strong feeling that that is true, yet I can't figure out how to explain it in words -- I guess because I don't fully understand it myself. On the surface, it doesn't appear to make much sense.
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