Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

PBS just now: "Anti-gun stand" will hurt Obama the most (Clarence Page)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:20 PM
Original message
PBS just now: "Anti-gun stand" will hurt Obama the most (Clarence Page)
On a broadcast of "Firing Line" just ending, moderator McLaughlin asked guests which issue would hurt Obama the most in the general election (Rev. Wright, Weather Ayers, flag pins, guns, etc.), Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune said Obama's "anti-gun stand" would hurt the most. This because of the ability of gun-rights groups to turn out the vote.

Note that this was NOT a question about the primaries. Many progressive 2A defenders have long said that the 2A issue will surface in a relatively close general election (as it did in Gore's race, according to WJ Clinton). Page seems to agree with this analysis, and clearly BOTH Democratic candidates have worked unsuccessfully to de-fuse the issue.

Re-examine the "bittergate" issue. Much of MSM and anti-Obama pols took the stance that it was elitist of Obama to frame small-town America in such sweeping terms; on the other hand, some progressives agreed with Obama that many in small-town America are indeed bitter over their declining station in life.

Left out of the debate is guns (even Hillary did NOT pile on Obama in the debates, mentioning only "religion"). Because MSM studiously refuses to deal with the Second Amendment as a serious issue, its analysis has been corrupted, leaving only the stereotype of some kind of elitism or, if you choose, a sharp analysis by Obama. Trouble is, by leaving guns out, all concerned are overlooking how debate over guns spanning the last 3+ decades has caricatured the gun-owner as yet another facet of the "angry white male;" armed to protect his special status against "others." As has been shown time and again, most people (whites, blacks, Latinos, Asians, GLBTs, women) do not purchase guns because they are bitter. But they are still subject to the "angry white male" "clinging to guns" stereotype.

Sometimes Americans don't wish to confront racism. Sometimes they don't wish to confront their own deep-seated hatred of some 80,0000,000 gun owners.

From Ignorance sprouts prejudice. Obama and Clinton need to face this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obama has stated OUT LOUD that he supports the 2nd Ammendment.
He has VOICED support for gamers, sportsmen/women, and the right to bear arms.

If THIS is his biggest problem in the GE, no problem-o.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. Funny, I've never heard him make much of a statement on guns.
As usual, the NRA propaganda machine is ASSuming a Democrat is a gun grabbing lunatic because, well, he's a Democrat.

I have long wished a candidate would tell the truth about it, that the only way to go after legal gun owners is by amending the constitution to abolish the second amendment, and that has about as large a chance of success as a screen door in a submarine. I have long wished that a candidate would tell the rest of the truth, that a second way would be to have an overbearing Executive issue an unconstitutional signing statement, declare martial law, and have the cops break into every house in the country looking for guns, something that has more chance with a GOP presidency.

I live in a bad neighborhood. It is bristling with firearms. I can't imagine hating my neighbors for owning guns. The OP is all wet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Man, I couldn't agree more with most of what you say...
I could care less about the NRA propaganda machine; more important is what will HRC and Barack do about the Second Amendment. As for:

"I have long wished a candidate would tell the truth about it, that the only way to go after legal gun owners is by amending the constitution to abolish the second amendment, and that has about as large a chance of success as a screen door in a submarine. I have long wished that a candidate would tell the rest of the truth, that a second way would be to have an overbearing Executive issue an unconstitutional signing statement, declare martial law, and have the cops break into every house in the country looking for guns, something that has more chance with a GOP presidency."

I agree! You cannot simultaneously warn of dictatorship and advocate gun control.

YOU can't imagine hating my neighbors for owning guns. I believe you. But take even a casual look at the history of the debate over 2A and you will readily see how the gun-owner has been thoroughly -- thoroughly -- demonized, esp. with a stereotype centered on the "angry white male." Obama stepped into it because he has been informed by this debate; put another way, would you have made the statement he made?




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. It will be interesting to see how he handles....
....criticism from pro-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms types. In all fairness, Hillary is just as weak.

His official position:

From: www.barackobama.com/issues/additional/Obama_FactSheet_W...
Supporting the Rights and Traditions of Sportsmen
PROTECTING GUN RIGHTS
Respect the Second Amendment: Millions of hunters own and use guns each year. Millions more participate in a variety of shooting sports such as sporting clays, skeet, target and trap shooting that may not necessarily involve hunting. As a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he greatly respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting. He also believes that the right is subject to reasonable and commonsense regulation.



This is odd. His position that the 2nd is in individual right and we can bear arms, but he will only protect the rights of hunters and target shooters and not people who keep and bear arms for self-defense. Now it may be fair to say that he doesn't address self-defense because the statement is only about hunting and target shooting, but I don't think he has a position statement on the 2nd Amendment and self-defense. Self-defense > hunting.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You know what would help? If Obama and HRC would consult 2A Democrats...
It wouldn't have cost them a dime and they would have been talking to a sizable section of the Democratic electorate. But evidently they have not. When Obama says that folks "cling to guns" he is clinging to a prejudice fostered by the last 3 decades of gun "debate." Talking to pro-2A folks early on would have AT LEAST prevented stepping in a pile left by anti-2A folks. This ignorance hasn't kept either candidate from talking about 2A, but the result is predictable: identifying 2A as primarily a "hunting" issue or a "tradition," and hauling out the bogey of a surrounded and under-seize "angry white male." On this last note, it is not surprising how the media have not pursued the "elitist" stereotype to include the gun-owner stereotype.

And some folks in these pages don't want to as well, knowing that prejudiced gun-owner stereotypes are alive and well.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Some Democrats do get NRA endorsements...
For example Bill Richardson:
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Bill_Richardson_Gun_Con...

The rifle association will not endorse candidates until late October. But it is leaning toward giving its blessing to more Democrats than ever before.

"Because more Democrats are restructuring their position, that may happen,'' Mr. Arulanandam said. ''But our endorsement process is fairly rigid. We're concerned that we might have a lot of fair-weather friends. These people are obviously paying attention to the changing political winds and right now everyone is currying favor with the N.R.A., but will they be there when something bad happens and we need their vote?"
The rifle association will not endorse candidates until late October. But it is leaning toward giving its blessing to more Democrats than ever before.


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C05E4D7...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yes, IIRC Governor Spiegelman got the NRA nod over his Republican opponent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Sep 17th 2014, 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC