Mark Crispin Miller: Don Siegelman Names Names - And The Press Goes Deaf

[Hissyspit]

Via E-Mail:


Yesterday I emailed Don Siegelman, as I had a few matters to discuss with him.
Here's the crucial part:

At 12:12 AM -0400 4/9/08, Mark Crispin Miller wrote:

The other, more important thing is this: As you may or may not know, the one aspect
of your long ordeal that the press has stubbornly refused to mention--or, I think,
even to perceive--is the theft of that election in 2002. Like you, I believe that that
was crucial; but the press, quite typically, won't mention it. Frankly, I believe that they,
and most leading Democrats, are in denial about it, as its implications are too frightening.
Just as they've looked away from all the evidence of vast election fraud throughout
Bush/Cheney's reign, therefore, they've also looked away from the subversion of
that gubernatorial race in Alabama. And so that chapter of your story is unknown
to most Americans, even those who've lately heard the rest of it.


Here is his reply:

Mark, I mention the vote stealing in every interview. 60 Minutes cut it out. Don Abrams didn't want to go there either. I have told the story to the Washington Post and LA Times.

The hook is Rove's fingerprints are found there too. First, in that Rove's friend Jack Abramoff hires Dan Gans, who was in charge of " electronic ballot security" in Baldwin County, Alabama, where the votes were stolen. Gans, working for the Alexander Strategies Group, claims credit for the win on his website, which he then takes down when Abramoff gets arrested. The second is Rove's business partner, Kitty Mc Cullough (a/k/a Kelly Kimbrough) is given credit for the electronic vote switch by the state Republican Party.

I asked Don if I could send that out, and he said yes ("Have at it"). So now I offer it to you.
If you're an election reform activist, please start your (search) engines. If you're a journalist,
please do your job. And if you're just another patriotic citizen, please do whatever you can
do to get the press, and/or the Democratic Party, to pay heed.

For starters, how about asking "60 Minutes" why they "cut it out," and asking Dan Abrams
why he "didn't want to go there either"? And since Don also told the Washington Post and
LA Times about the theft of that election, how about we ask them, too?

This stuff will just keep on happening, until we make it dangerous to do such things.


MCM

[Syrinx]

1. K&R

[tkmorris]

2. Kicking this

Needs more eyeballs on it.

Thanks for putting this out Hissyspit.

[sandyd921]

3. K & R!

the crux of the matter

[JDPriestly]

4. Don Siegelman, like those of us who thought Nixon was lying about Watergate in 1973,

is viewed as being a bit daft. He asked questions and made accusations, but generally, people don't see the links that he sees. That's normal. It doesn't mean that they think that he is wrong. It doesn't mean they aren't listening. It just means that they are waiting for corroborating information. Governor Siegelman needs to wait. Someone somewhere will most likely provide the corroboration that people are waiting for. The governor has sowed seeds of doubts. It's a matter of time.

[EFerrari]

5. That's very true. And we have to work to provide opportunities for

corroboration.

My mom used to think I was a little nuts about the theft of 2004. Then she watched a couple of documentaries about that election. It's nearly four years later but she doesn't think I'm nuts any more. She gets it, completely.

[mod mom]

25. We may not have gotten rid of the machines nor had our day in court to prove '04 theft

but we have made success in getting others to realize what occurred. Now if we can only get them active.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

30. I've emailed a couple of venues. Let's see what we can do.

:hi:

[JDPriestly]

89. The revelations about the torture memos and meetings

gives credence to Siegelman's accusation that the effort to disenfranchise southern Democrats and to imprison the leaders of the Democratic Party in the South are part of an organized effort. The Bush bunch is well organized and knows precisely what its goal is -- building an empire in which they are the dictators.

I have always wondered how in the world Bush every got a degree in history. He seems to know very little about American history. Recently, I have been exploring Roman history, and I think that is what Bush studied -- the history of the Roman empire. He probably also studied some Italian history. Those seem to be his models.

[RaleighNCDUer]

73. Meanwhile, as he waits,

he goes back to prison.

He, and we, cannot afford to just wait. It needs to be dragged into the open.

[L. Coyote]

85. Waiting is the wrong advice if it implies inaction. ACTION! Spread the word, and

register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters, register voters!

[FiveGoodMen]

86. Back to prison?! What did I miss?

[liam_laddie]

6. K & R !!!

[defendandprotect]

7. We've had stolen elections since the mid-1960's when the computers

first began coming in ---

See: Votescam - The Stealing of America which is a product of an investigation which began then
by Jim & Ken Collier --

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=votescam+the+stealing+of+america&fr=yfp-t-501-s&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Further, as we can see from the abuse of former Gov. Siegelman ---
when governmentis in criminal hands there are dangers.

And, I think our Democratic Congress has long known this --

The longer they wait, however, the more dangerous for all of us ---!!!

Even scarier . . .
We've also had political violence for almost 50 years now --- open political violence ---
with almost no acknowledgment by anyone in government who should have been able to do s
something about it.

[L. Coyote]

49. Stolen Elections WILL be an issue in 2008, in part due to the theft of Siegelman 2002

This is a central legal concern, and the real can of worms, in the Siegelman story.
It is not part of his litigation, so it sits off to the side, simmering at a low boil, ready any minute.

Knowing and proving are so very different in courts of law.

This is a case that illustrates not only just how easy stealing elections can be,
but that it is happening with such impunity and hubris, they'll just jail you too!

[defendandprotect]

71. I wish more people knew about Siegelman; even with the 60 Mins story, things seem

quiet on that front --- as with all of the corruptions of this administration!!!

There's really no war being seen on TV --- no coffins --- no families suffering these losses.
I've wondered if they've improved anything at Walter Reed --- that story is gone.

Look at the stories now re the airlines --- is the public actually understanding that the airlines
have put monetary profits over their safety?

Democrats seem to be trying to shore things up --- all that has happened -- but the destruction is so
widespread that it is frightening!!!

[Botany]

8. The media knows that elections were stolen and have helped in the crimes

Freaking bush & Rove met Ken Blackwell on election day 2004 in Ohio ....
Max Cleland Georgia 2002
Harlem & Brooklyn (Bedford-Stuyvesant) had precincts that produced
0 (zero) Obama votes
Florida 2000 .... Jews vote for Pat Buchanan

Don Siegelman goes to the heart of the crimes ....

the NSA was used to spy ... the D o J was the muscle (U.S. Attorneys were
the button men) .... and state and local repugs flipped votes.

The corruption was and is massive

[Echo In Light]

19. Yep - astounding how something of such magnitude is still either unknown or disavowed by so many

[tomp]

38. great graphic! thanks. nt

[EFerrari]

65. David Corn owes us a favor for dismissing our concern in 2004

and thereby allowing the New York Times to point to him and shrug.

[Helga Scow Stern]

100. Good point! How has The Nation reported on this?

It was so annoying back in 2004 to see Corn and others doing their superior dance over not believing "conspiracy theories" about the election being stolen.

[EFerrari]

106. I'll have to ask someone because after that, my subscriptions lapsed.

Good to you you, Ojai Person!

[defendandprotect]

72. Absolutely... and so difficult an issue because amazingly people still trust

government and still trust corporate-media --- !!!

How would they begin to get the idea that elections were stolen going back to the mid-1960's and
that a corruption of our "free press" enabled it????

We saw the most blatant assistance in that regard on the night that Florida was stollen by Fox/John Ellis for George W --- right before our eyes!!!

As, as we can see in the Siegelman case, these thugs followed thru to destroy their opponenets---
and pretty much have gone all the way on that with imprisonment, burning down homes, offices.

Much of our problem is that much of America doesn't understand how corrupt these people are.

You would think that the bankrupting of our Treasury and the mortgage-lending institution crisis
would be waking them up --- but there still seems to be a large percentage of America sleeping!!!

[Supersedeas]

81. exposing the illusion of American democracy is a Media no-no

[blm]

93. Dan Rather agrees - he has admitted corporate media NEEDED Bush to stay in office for the rulings

they expected in his second term that would be favorable to their expansion of power.

They KNEW Kerry was against that expansion as he submitted his disapproval to the senate in June 2003.

[defendandprotect]

9. Recommend --- something to think about--!!

[madfloridian]

10. I felt bad for Siegelman on Abrams the other night.

I did not expect Abrams to be so doggoned rough on him.

[hisownpetard]

11. I wrote to Abrams about it. He barely let Siegelman get a word in edgewise, kept

interrupting him and cutting him off, after supposedly championing his cause.

It was disappointing to watch.

[librechik]

43. why didn't Don have a lawyer with him ? He's still in jeopardy

that was abuse

[L. Coyote]

51. Abrams cutting off the litany of perps, saying "Let's keep it simple" was insulting.

Sometimes T-V personalities need caffeine dose controls or something to make them more like normal humans.

Gov. Siegelman was rattling off the list of those illegally funding the Riley campaign.
Abrams deflected that focus with lightning speed, to keep things "simple" for us dummies.

[L. Coyote]

61. VIDEOS: 2008.04.08 - Don Siegelman On Abrams' Verdict

Don Siegelman's exclusive interview on Dan Abrams' show "Verdict"

Part 1 HERE: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=116364&mesg_id=116364

Part 2 & 3 LINKED from Part 1.

[defendandprotect]

79. Thank you! Don Siegelman is terrific -- when he gets to Norquist/Ralph Reed

Abrams wants to disconnect --- !!!

Siegelman has the higher perspective on this --- it's our first real look into what he calls
the "hijacking of our Department of Justice."

[L. Coyote]

102. Siegelman zeroes in on the 2002 cast, when Abrmoff was still a Rovian WH insider ...

and cuts to the core crimes, crimes ignored if not committed inside DoJ.

Our first DU focus on Siegelman starts right there too.

Abramoff and Kark Rove Linked to Prosecution of Ex-Alabama Governor and Campaign Finances
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1023111

..... From June 3, 2005 by the Boston Globe
Gambling, GOP Politics Intertwine
Casino Payments Seen as Influential
by Michael Kranish - http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0603-08.htm


WASHINGTON -- George W. Bush gave the nation's gambling industry plenty of reason to fear his presidency. .... He wooed religious conservatives by boasting in a presidential debate about his ''strong antigambling record."

But as president, Bush has not spoken out against gambling. .... as Republican lobbyists and activist groups collected tens of millions of dollars from Indian tribes seeking to preserve their casinos. Now those payments are the focus of Senate and Justice Department investigations.

... White House ... annual sessions over a four-year period that were arranged by antitax crusader Grover Norquist ... After Bush dropped his antigambling rhetoric, lobbyists touted their access, and fund-raising from Indian tribes grew exponentially.

...Norquist('s) ... organization received $1.5 million from tribes and fought a tax on Indian casinos; lobbyist Jack Abramoff, a top Bush fund-raiser who earned millions of dollars in fees as a consultant to gaming tribes; and Ralph Reed ... allegedly used some money from Indian gaming tribes to fund his efforts to close down rival casinos and lotteries

.........Bush worked closely with religious conservatives, especially Reed....

..... Tiguas poured tens of thousands of dollars into the campaign of the Democrat running against Bush in 1998 .... Bush redoubled his earlier efforts to shut down the Tigua casino. ... special appropriation ... for the state's attorney general, John Cornyn, now a US senator, to take legal action against the tribe.....

Abramoff, who helped arrange for the rival tribes to give the money to Reed's group, turned around and offered his services to the Tiguas -- for $4.2 million in fees split between himself and a partner

..... Abramoff and his partner in Indian gaming consulting would receive more than $60 million in fees from six different tribes seeking to advance their gambling interests ... Abramoff also told the tribes to give money ... the tribes gave $3 million, two-thirds of it to Republicans

.... Abramoff and Norquist .. worked (for) ... candidate ... following year, Abramoff and Norquist came to Washington together to lead the Republican Party's national effort to recruit college students. Reed soon joined ...


In 1999, Don Siegelman, the Democratic governor of Alabama, proposed a lottery that would have pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into public schools and even provided free college education for most Alabama high school graduates.

Reed, rallying religious conservatives, set out to try to defeat it ... quickly raised $1.15 million .... money came from Norquist's group, Americans for Tax Reform. Norquist ... got the funds from an Indian gaming tribe ...At the time Reed raised the money, he was working for Abramoff ... and Abramoff represented the Mississippi tribe.

Siegelman ..."'I don't know how they can sleep at night taking money from the Indian casinos to deny Alabama schoolchildren...."

.... Abramoff, meanwhile, appears to be the central focus ....Bush has not spoken on the matter. ............

[blm]

92. I think Abrams is an expert on 'limited hangout' techniques. Never forget he is Elliott's cousin

and throughout the 2004 campaign never showed any balance in covering that campaign. Needless to say for you but newbs might not know, the Abrams' family would have no love for John Kerry who uncovered IranContra.

[EFerrari]

107. He's ABRAMS' cousin?

This IS Guatemala!

[blm]

113. Geez - I thought you knew that. Think about how he ignored Kerry campaign throughout most of 04

and he seems to favor those Dems who supported IranContra policy.

[DeeDeeNY]

12. K & R

[bulloney]

13. Damn that librul media!

[caseycoon]

14. K&R n/t

[MelissaB]

15. This should break a record for recommends or at least come close.

K&R

I hope people are reading some of the replies above because they are important.

[The Wizard]

16. The Machiavellian Joseph Goebbels

and American Rasputin, Karl Rove has used the power of the Bush Cartel to determine what media reports and how it's reported.
He gives the talking points to Drudge who posts them as fact. Limbaugh and the rest of right wing hate radio picks it up and starts the echo chamber. Then it goes to Pox (deliberate typo0 News where it's broadcast to more knuckle-draggers with more echo effect. By the time ABC, NBC and CBS go on the air with it, Rove's propaganda is perceived as fact.
Let them know why you're not watching their news shows. Let their sponsors know. That's how the right wing caused the networks to broadcast news with a rightward tilt.

[Echo In Light]

17. K&R MCM, among others, should be thanked for their tireless diligence since the 00 coup

[KoKo]

29. and there have been diligent DU'ers who devoted their lives to

exposing what was done in '00,02 and '04. It all stopped when we won back the House & Senate in 06...and no one wanted to hear about "stolen elections." But, we were promised election reform by John Conyers and the Progressive Caucus. We were promised an Amendment to guarantee us the RIGHT to vote...which really isn't in the Constitution/BOR by Jesse Jackson, jr.... We were promised and they held basement hearings. But, it all died. We should give credit to activists in States who managed to get some reforms in and DRE's out...or minimalized.

Mark Miller has kept on this and so has Greg Palast...but until we had more evidence it all goes down the memory whole with out a Press to pick up on it. And, all the blogs are too obsessed with this election in '08 to care. They think that the overwhelming registration of new Dems will overide and overwhelm the crap machines that still exist and that the Repugs will be too afraid to "switch" the tally. But, some of us know better about what the Repugs can do. They might be in a little disarray but Karl Rove is still free and no one has been held accountable.

K&R and those of you at Kos and elsewhere please spread this around...

[symbolman]

42. Yep...watch and marvel as the race is "neck and neck"

and as if by a miracle McCain will squeak out as the Winner, they'll blame all the Black Felons, and bray about how all the Veterans "tipped the scale in McCain's favor.."

I could write the fucking script theyll use between now and then..

Didn't spend a year of my life investigating electronic voting, interviewing everyone under the sun, from felons to Congressional Hearings, while making a film and Flash ads the whole time for nothing... Our life savings went right on down that particular rathole :)

Siegelman is KEY, that theft is the simplest to understand and prove to Anyone.. That's why the Media won't touch it, people will GET IT easily...

Its the most obvious, Primordial theft via electronics I've seen..

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. Would the implication here be, that if they investigate it they will know

how they did it, and once they know that, they can look around the country for similar cases?

[Apollo11]

20. Let's not misunderestimate The Right's resolve to retain power by any means necessary.

I still remember December 12th 2000 like it was yesterday.

Election theft will not be solved by ignoring the problem.

[malaise]

21. M$M remained silent on the mathematically impossible exit poll

bullshit in Ohio that stole the election from Kerry as well so why would they want to touch this subject. Everyone who wants to know is fully aware that the Rethugs, led by Rove, have been stealing elections for years.

M$M is part of the cabal.

[Echo In Light]

22. Lest we forget Greg Palast re: CBS and the 00 "election"

http://www.gregpalast.com/deep-throat-cover-blownrnwashington-post-still-sucks/

"It was in the summer of 2001. A few months earlier, for the Guardian papers of Britain, I'd discovered that Katherine Harris and Governor Jeb Bush of Florida had removed tens of thousands of African-Americans from voter registries before the 2000 election, thereby fixing the race for George Bush. Hosenball said the Post-Newsweek-team "looked into it and couldn't find anything."

Nothing at all? What I found noteworthy about the Post's investigation was that "looking into it" involved their reporters chatting with Florida officials -- but not bothering to look at the voter purge list itself.

Yes, I admit the Washington Post ran my story -- seven months after the election -- but with the key info siphoned out, such as the Bush crew's destruction of evidence and the salient fact that almost all those purged were Democrats. In other words, the story was drained of anything which might discomfit the new residents of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Let's not pick on the Post alone. Viacom Corporation's CBS News also spiked the story. Why? "We called Jeb Bush's office," a CBS producer told me, and Jeb's office denied Jeb did wrong. End of story.

During the Clinton years, the Washington Post and Newsweek allowed reporter Mike Isikoff to sniff at the President's zipper and write about our Commander-in-Chief's Lewinsky. But when it came to a big story about dirty energy industry money for Clinton's campaigns, Mike told me his editors didn't "give a sh--" and so he passed the material for me to print in England.

[malaise]

28. 100% correct n/t

[EFerrari]

31. "We called Jeb Bush's office" has to be the all time low point in American journalism.

They all have blood on their hands.

[lonestarnot]

23. And they will ignore the theft of this one too!

K & R

[JPZenger]

24. Found extra ballots at last minute

As I understand it, Siegelman was ahead in the vote count. Then, in one county, additional ballots were "found" that caused Siegelman to lose. I understand those ballots have never been available for public examination.

Of course, the current governor, Riley, has his buddies in all the key positions in the Siegelman debacle. It was Riley who was declared the winner over Siegelman. Riley's son has also been implicated.

[EFerrari]

26. We should ask Dan Abrams to have Mark on to talk about that election.

It's an angle of the Siegelman story he hasn't covered and if Mark talks about it instead of Don, it plays better. If Don brings it up, it could sound like sour grapes. If Mark brings it up, it will be a different discussion.

link to the contact page: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22610959/

[symbolman]

33. maybe I'll have a little chat with Abrams producer myself

I convinced him to run my wife's footage of her interview with Siegelman the day after Don got out, and we released that footage on Mark's blog months ago since he's the "go to guy" when it comes to Election Theft...

I'll have to check my phone for his number, I believe his name is Andrew... Hell, he SEEMED interested in the whole theft part of the interview when we talked about using our footage there on Abrams, and I tried to convince him that the theft was just as important as the legal railroading of Siegelman..

Mark had called our footage Dynamite when he saw it before we released it, and he's right...

Siegelman is the fucking poster child for the TONS of Repig corruption aimed at ALL of US.. People need to realize that if they can do it to a beloved Southern Govenor, they can fucking do it to ANY of US!!

I'll get on the horn and see what strings I can pull.. Like I said, I'm feeling better my friend, and think I might even LIVE.. :)

I thought I was going to die ever since I caught pnumonia chasing Edwards (we are in the process of selling our home so I can refund money to those that want it back, we've got a list and I feel like I let everyone down, though I had no control over getting sicker than I've ever been in my whole life.. Usually not my style..)

:)

[MelissaB]

36. Do you have a link to the video you're talking about?

Thanks in advance!

[symbolman]

40. I'll have demobabe post it as soon as she's up

its after 4 am here right now and I've got to hit the sack.. But if you search for Don Siegelman on YouTube you'll probably find it quick, its a two parter - bet Mark Miller has a link to it on his blog as well..

It was posted on the DU not long ago.. I'd search for it but my DU Star has disappeared lately, I'm a regular unwashed Heathen here now.. Makes me wonder why I bother posting sometimes, I do have other fish to fry :)

Sorry I dont have handy, I'll shoot my wife an email, she'll do right by you...

[L. Coyote]

56. VIDEO links, more = Mark_Crispin_Miller "that little matter of a rigged election"

VIDEO LINKS and past DU Siegelman threads from this post:

FROM: Political Prisoner Don Siegelman: Will the 60 Minutes Spotlight Make a Difference?
Feb-22-08 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2909551

Mark_Crispin_Miller Mon Dec-17-07
44. Hi, everybody!

Thanks to all of you for getting into this.

It's absolutely crucial that we spread the word. First of all, and most obviously, we have to free Don Siegelman. That he's been locked up for all this time, held incommunicado— and in a hardcore federal facility, with murderers for company—is difficult to bear. (I can only imagine what his family's been going through.) We have to free him; and we have to look throughout Bush/Cheney's "justice" system for other such vendettas, because Don Siegelman is not the only one.

And, second, it is crucial that we spread the word because the mainstream coverage so far (what there is of it) has, as I noted on my blog, avoided - mentioning that little matter of a rigged election. And here too Siegelman's ordeal is only one of many. That year's elections, remember, included Saxby Chambliss's fake "victory" over Max Cleland for the latter's Senate seat on Georgia (where the governor's race was fixed as well).

Once we start to look at those two (or three) subverted races in '02, we'll have to look as well at Wayne Allard's weird win in Colorado and John Sununu's in New Hampshire, where the GOP's phone-jamming operation clearly helped the party re-establish its control over the Senate (which Jim Jeffords had taken from them). Diebold played a role in both those "wins," as well as Chambliss's in Georgia; and I would also take a good hard look at Norm Coleman's ostensible defeat of Walter Mondale—a victory that I strongly doubt was caused by "the booing of Trent Lott" at Paul Wellstone's memorial service.

This sounds like a digression, but it isn't. The Siegelman affair is like a loose thread dangling from the sleeve of Bush II's shirt. Once we finish pulling on it, Bush, Cheney and the rest of them will all be standing there buck naked—and it sure won't be a pretty sight.

=================
from: SIEGELMAN SPEAKS! EX-GOV CALLS '02 ELECTION "STOLEN" BY THE WHITE HOUSE!
babylonsister Dec-17-07 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2485896


demobabe Dec-17-07 - Response to Reply #50
76. It's funny you should mention that computer glitch...

...because I've done a little research into it.

Professor Gundlach did a wonderful statistical analysis about how impossible for these results to happen, and for data to get "corrupted" on the cassette that way - the only results that changed were 6000 missing from Siegelman's total. No other candidate's vote tally changed AT ALL, not EVEN BOB RILEY'S or any other Gubernatorial candidate. Just Siegelman.

But all that aside, one thing nobody has looked at much is what was blamed as the cause of the "computer glitch": the Scantron cassette from Magnolia Springs.

Magnolia Springs is a sleepy little riverfront town where they still deliver mail by boat to some homes. They have about 3,000 voters total.

Now I'd assume some of those folks there voted for Siegelman. But wouldn't it have been obvious if there were that number of votes PLUS 6,000 EXTRA VOTES coming from that district? Or if Magnolia Springs reported a NEGATIVE VOTE COUNT?

Wouldn't it have been immediately obvious WHEN THE POLLING LOCATION AT MAGNOLIA SPRINGS REPORTED THEIR RESULTS?

If that doesn't spell fraud, I don't know what does.

[MelissaB]

101. Thanks, L. Coyote!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

37. It's good to hear you're feeling better. And I can't believe

anyone is bothering about anything right now. :hug:

[symbolman]

41. thanks dearheart

it bothers ME though and that's what counts ... :)

[Stephanie]

50. I just emailed Mark about this thread, maybe he'll drop by to discuss

Not sure if he's in town, but he would DEFINITELY go on to discuss if you can get the booking.

[raccoon]

27. Rec'd. nt

[fascisthunter]

32. Useless Partial Corporate Controlled GOP Owned Media

We are living in a one party system.... wake up folks!

[TacticalPeek]

34. I like that part about "until we make it dangerous to do such things".

Exactly, the offenders need some law and order on their ass for a change. They would lose their taste for election crime.

[elizfeelinggreat]

35. AMEN

personal responsibility! Consequences for their actions!

[Tuesday_Morning]

39. K & R

[symbolman]

44. I alerted Mark Crispin Miller to this thread

I think him going on Abrams is a great idea, takes some of the heat off of Siegelman...

Mark's the greatest, and I'm not just saying that because I want to bear all of his children.. Now, where did I leave that damned uterus? :)

[Mark_Crispin_Miller]

47. What to do

Symbolman is right, and the consensus here is right. If we keep hitting this thing hard, it WILL break through eventually. The trick, though, is not just to smack the press until they come around. We have to do that, yes, but it's even more important that we also spread the word ourselves, because the more of us demand some thorough coverage of this all-important issue, the harder it will be to keep a lid on it. In other words, the people have to get it. Until they do, we few cannot accomplish very much. But once they do, we (i.e., we + they) can do a lot more than we can imagine at the moment.

That's why those documentaries are so valuable; and there are books and articles that must be widely circulated, too. There's a new book just now coming out from Ig Publishing, a collection of essays entitled LOSER TAKE ALL: ELECTION FRAUD AND THE SUBVERSION OF DEMOCRACY, 2000-2008. I edited this book, and wrote both its long preface and a blunt addendum called "12 Steps to Save US Democracy" (because it CAN be saved). The contributors include the heavy hitters of the election reform movement, including Bobby Kennedy, Brad Friedman, Nancy Tobi, Bob Fitrakis, Paul Lehto (a/k/a Landshark here on DU), Jonathan Simon, Steve Rosenfeld and other folks who know what they're talking about.

I mention this book here because we included two essays on Don's story: a statistical analysis, by Prof. James Gundlach, of the vote-theft in Alabama's Baldwin County in '02; and an overview, by Larisa Alexandrovna, of how that theft fit into the larger,
Rove-directed scheme to take Don down.

So let's just keep on keeping on. We really have no choice. As for this November, here's my view: John McCain cannot possibly win this election—not with the economy in such dire shape (in that sphere, he's Herbert Hoover come back from the dead), and not with BushCo's war inexorably spreading. This means that they will have to steal it (yet again); and they've been working on that very mission for the last few years, with both the DoJ and SCOTUS doing everything they can to pre-empt countless Democratic votes, and the GOP in many states doing likewise, and the e-voting machines in place from coast to coast. (There's a lot of stuff about all this in LOSER TAKE ALL.) Thus they're prepared to steal it, if they can just make the race look "close" enough. And once they steal it, they will trot out all the "explanations" that you would expect: It was that rift within the Democratic Party, and/or America is just "not ready" to elect a black man (or a woman), and/or "people just trust John McCain," blah blah blah blah. And the press will no doubt parrot every word of it, just as they did back in 2000 ("Nader did it!") and in 2004 ("It was the religious right!").

We can avert a third disaster, though, if we can spread the word about the GOP's ability and willingness to steal it—so that, if and when the party steals it this time, all those hopeful, optimistic voters in the actual majority do not just crumple up and blow away, they way they did after Election Day, 2004 (thanks to Kerry's swift concession). This time, people must go into this election with their eyes wide open. They have to turn out in unprecedented numbers, and monitor the race as thoroughly as possible, scream bloody murder over every impropriety and crime, and then, if the Republicans do seem to "win" again, just SAY NO en masse. In short, we have to wake up from this living nightmare of the last eight years, which has had too many of us thinking that we voted these wild criminals into office. The fact is that they never were elected—and that's the worst of all their crimes, and one that we must get this nation, and the world, to recognize.

[Occulus]

48. Welcome aboard, MCM!

Good to see you here!

Question: how do we get past the whole "there would have to be too many people involved in this conspiracy for it to be kept secret" malarky? I know that's hogwash, and you know it's hogwash, but what about all the people who swallow that line? How do we wake 'em up that this is even possible here in the US?

[Mark_Crispin_Miller]

53. It's easy, really

The fact that it does NOT take multitudes (or even a whole village) to steal votes undetected has been well-established by a number of righteous academics, like Ed Felten at Princeton. That info must get out there. Also, it's not true that no-one has come clean, or been exposed. Take the subversion of the recount in Ohio in '04. Two election clerks in Cuyahoga County were convicted over it, and went to prison; and the Conyers Report quotes an employee of one complicit company, admitting to his role.

We very badly need a clearinghouse of just this sort of information. And for that we need some funding. So far, Soros and the other moneybags have shown less than zero interest in this issue, just like nearly everybody else in the Establishment. But there ARE some rich people who do care about it, and who can certainly be brought on board, once they learn what's actually been happening.

[Stephanie]

54. What about the primaries, Mark?

Is it happening now?

[Occulus]

67. Out of desperation, I just thought of lottery winners.

Surely there is a Powerball winner out there who's a Dem and wants to see this group of Pubs held accountable.

I'm not really trying to make a joke here, just wondering if anyone has ever considered such people as a possible source of funding. Those who were just lucky may well sit outside the wealthy Establishment subset you described.

[EFerrari]

57. And don't forget that email from the RNC -- iirc, in Tx --

bragging openly about vote caging. Or, how Chertoff has slowed down giving thousands of new citizens their final papers so they can't vote with the Democrats in November. Or, how the HAVA mandated voter reg data base happens to drop Democratic registrations -- that's going to be big this year. You don't need many people to edit a database.

[L. Coyote]

62. NEEDED: An "Are you still registered?" campaign. Everyone should check NOW!

[EFerrari]

63. Right. I'm planning to contact Dr. Dean with at least a suggested

plan. I was waiting until the primaries calmed down a little, as well as trying to figure out if we have people check in late summer, do the goons still have time to bump people off again before November. The timing is important.

[defendandprotect]

77. Cast out the computers, Same Day Registration, IRV voting ---

As we've all wondered what happened to our country since these computers began coming in during the 1960's . . . !!!

[EFerrari]

83. Can't do it before now and November but those sure are goals

we need to keep working toward!

[diane in sf]

84. When's your book coming out? How do I order it? Just checked Amazon...

[EFerrari]

108. Info at Mark's blog: search news from underground.

:hi:

[TooBigaTent]

88. Just want to thank you for your good work everywhere. In particular, the

course on Propaganda. My daughter took that her first semester at NYU (2004) and it really got her mind going in a critical way. We had many great discussions about it and that new family tradition has continued.

Thank you.

[The Wizard]

95. If Americans

were dedicated to free and fair elections like the Ukrainians we'd be winding down the second Gore term.
In the end it takes boots on the ground, and it needs to be wide spread enough so that Blackwater won't have enough troops to turn back the hordes.
Hammering away at keyboards is good for venting and organizing, but it will take tens of millions in the streets to let the ruling junta know they have to get out of town.
And it won't be covered by the corporate media.

[redqueen]

45. Thanks...

call-in shows are also good. Just get it out there. The press won't talk about this - why?

[formercia]

46. Kill the vote, kill the voter

"This stuff will just keep on happening, until we make it dangerous to do such things."

When you unlawfully deny someone the right to vote, steal their vote, or give it to someone else, you might as well have put a gun to their head and blown their brains out as far as the election is concerned.

All we have to defend ourselves against tyranny, sort of an armed uprising, is the right to vote and help decide how we want our country to be run.

Stealing a vote should be treated just like murder and have penalties as severe.

[Stephanie]

52. Mark, are you seeing any rigging in the primaries?

And do you think Siegelman will ultimately be vindicated?

:hi: Nice to see you, it's been too long!

[Mark_Crispin_Miller]

59. Yes indeed!

New Hampshire was definitely rigged—the work, no doubt, of the Republicans, who basically control the e-voting machinery everywhere, and specialize in just that sort of fraud. (The Repubs wanted a McCain-Clinton contest, and also a protracted civil war within the Democratic Party.) Where they counted votes by op-scan, Clinton won by some four points. And where they counted votes by hand, Obama won by roughly six points. Of course, all this was instantly explained (away) as a consequence of certain demographic factors, but none of those theories withstood any serious examination. Also, it emerged that the employees of LHS Associates, the private firm that programs the machines throughout New England, had been dropping in to various town clerks' offices a few days prior to the race, and making little changes in the memory cards, "so that the machines would work better," or some such bullshit.

It also appears that the machines favored Clinton in Ohio, Texas, New Jersey, Massachusetts and elsewhere. Jonathan Simon tells me that, insofar as he can tell from the exit polls (whose first-night findings are now closely guarded), Clinton got a bump of several points in those peculiar races. The long and short of it is that she has never done as well as she's appeared to do. We HAVE heard about those mischievous Republicans who, egged on by Rush Limbaugh, have crossed over deliberately to interfere with Democratic races. That's definitely happened, but the coverage of that sort of thing has blotted out the larger issue of the possible subverted e-voting machinery.

Finally, this whole mess is further complicated by the sad fact that the Clintons have demonstrably engaged in vote suppression, most ostentatiously in Nevada (where Obama, wholly out of character, actually filed a complaint against them), but also
evidently in New Mexico, Arizona and California, just to name a few.

So the answer to the question is, unfortunately, yes.

[Stephanie]

64. Another story that has never been covered.

It's shocking. Honestly, I have followed every step of this primary and not seen one word about that.

[defendandprotect]

75. "Finally, this whole mess is further complicated by the sad fact that the Clintons have...

demonstrably engaged in vote suppression, most ostentatiously in Nevada..."

What methods are being used to do this --- if I may ask?

[OnTheOtherHand]

94. umm, no

Mark, I assume you've been told that Howard Dean won the hand count municipalities. Do you think that Dean beat Kerry, too? If so, why?

Maybe you think you're smarter or better than Herron, Mebane and Wand, but I don't. I think you're spending waaaaaaaay too much time in the bubble.

As for Jonathan Simon, he's still stuck in the loop of "exit polls must be right, therefore exit polls must be right" -- no matter how bizarre.

[vinylsolution]

55. 2000, 2004, 2008....

They're gearing up to steal 2008, too. Remember how Hillary Clinton came from 13 points behind to suddenly be declared the winner in New Hampshire? You can bet the hand of Rove was behind that as well.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

80. I wonder what Penn and Karen Hughes discussed at lunch Wed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5456384

[brindis_desala]

58. :kick: Kick!

[Ellipsis]

60. K&R

[PerfectSage]

66. The Permanent Republican Majority Series and Related Raw Story Articles

The Permanent Republican Majority Series and Related Raw Story Articles


Part One – The Political Prisoner

Part Two – Exclusive interview with jailed governor’s daughter, Dana Siegelman

Part Three – Running Elections from the White House

Part Four - How Bush pick helped prosecute top Democrat-backed judge

Alabama station drops 60 Minutes expose on Don Siegelman prosecution

Interview with Dana Jill Simpson and alleged Rove smear campaign

Karl Rove’s Next Move: A million dollar home on Florida’s Emerald Coast

April 9th latest story.Mississippi Justice: Bush US Attorney targeted my wife, supporters and friends

[L. Coyote]

69. I'm going with "Permanent Republican Reich" "Majority" is now totally laughable.

Of course, since they prefer "Corrupt Bastards Club"
and already have the caps and tee-shirts printed,
I'm not taking that name off the table just yet.

[EFerrari]

76. Bastards works for me!

:)

[femrap]

68. K and R

It would be too sweet if it was Alabama that brought Rove to his jail cell.

[Pastiche423]

98. It would be doubly sweet

if it was Don Siegelman that brought rove to his jail cell!

[Dinger]

70. K & R

[Lugnut]

74. K&R n/t

[defendandprotect]

78. P&R . . . Push & Recommend ---

[mhatrw]

82. Back to the top! n/t

[Judi Lynn]

87. Nothing will be right until Siegelman gets complete justice. n/t

[progressoid]

90. ...why he "didn't want to go there either"?

I'm not sure it's some sinister RW conspiracy in the media so much as fear (and maybe a little laziness).

Sticking your neck out in the corporate media world can get your head chopped off (ask Dan Rather). And a story like that would require a journalist (and a boss) with a lot of diligence and honesty. Something that seems to be in short supply today.

Besides, why work so hard at a story when you can just recite statistics about American Idol and get better ratings?

[bjobotts]

91. What DoJ?. We don't have one anymore, just a Bush syndicate.

[ms liberty]

96. K&R n/t

[babsbunny]

97. Keith Olbermann will cover this!

Right?

[Kurovski]

99. K&R. (nt)

[Kurovski]

103. Kick. (nt)

[Jazzgirl]

104. This is why I luv DU!

I was very disappointed in the way Dan Abrams handled the interview. He kept cutting Siegelman off and changing directions of the conversation. I got the impression he was trying to discredit Siegelman. I almost didn't finish but I kept watching anyway.

[EFerrari]

105. Kick!

[Spiffarino]

109. Kick.

Starting with Keith Olbermann, then on down the line from CNN to CBS, I'll demand a fair hearing for Siegelman in the press. Otherwise, why should we watch or listen? What's the point of their existence other than spreading lies and covering up for their corporate masters?

[FourScore]

110. It's true...I did not know that aspect of this story.

It boggles the mind why the press won't investigate this better.

[Uncle Joe]

111. Kicked, too late to recommend.

Thanks for the thread, Hissyspit.

[Kurovski]

112. Kick. (nt)