Gore's electric bill - 100% GREEN!

[johnaries]

Who care's how BIG Al's electric bill is? It's 100% GREEN coming from all renewable sources: solar, wind, and methane. NO carbon! zeor! Zilch! Nada! Last year, he used around 200,000 kwh of renewable GREEN electricity without ANY carbon emissions from it! thanks to Nashville Electric Service's Green Power Switch program.

Now, that's what I call Walking the Walk!

[Demoiselle]

1. Ok, how do we get this out there and beat down the recent right wing spin? eom

[Tarheel_Dem]

4. I say that Gore uses his newfound fame to hit the talkshow circuit....

and draw even more attention to renewable energy. The repubs really overstepped on this one, especially with the power company backing up the Gore camp assertions. I heard there were connections between this "think tank" and big oil, and I'm gonna bet by the time this is all said & done, they'll wish they could put this genie back in the bottle.....

[MethuenProgressive]

8. "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth...."

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~ Mark Twain
Somebody also once said that lies get a headline, the retractions hide in small type.

[Sonicmedusa]

9. It's not going to be easy

I just got banned on a local forum along with a very bright blogger for thinking liberally and speaking the truth about GW and Gore and ignorance.

As much as they supress, we must shout LOUDER!

[Ignacio Upton]

2. Unfortunately, the lie is out there

The Right-Wing Noise Machine so badly wants to make this another "I invented the internet" or "Love Story" that they are salivating at the prospect of smearing Gore again.

[imax2268]

3. yea...

DU is a common place for outstanding research and information...I have been looking but with no luck on this...

anyone else have any luck...this needs to be spread around to show the right wing lies...

[johnaries]

7. Start by requesting a Green Power Switch program in your town.

http://www.tva.gov/greenpowerswitch/

Imagine helping the environment by paying just $4 or $8 dollars a month more on your electric bill. You don't have to do 100% like Al. Every little bit helps.

When someone says something to you or sends an email about Al's electric bill, just say "we need a green power switch program"and tell them about it.

THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY, FOLKS!

[Pirate Smile]

5. Here is good debunking info also.

- The "average" home electricity use quoted by TCPR is a national average that includes apartments and mobile homes. In Gore's climatic zone, the East South Central (Dept. of Energy PDF), the average is much higher, thanks to hot, humid summers and cold winters. Within that zone, Gore's usage is three (not 20) times average, and his per-square-foot usage is squarely average. (More here.)

- The Gores are not an average family. He's an ex-VP with special security arrangements, and has live-in security staff. He and his wife both work on their many business and charitable undertakings out of their house, so they have space for offices and office staff. All that would be tough to cram in an average size house.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-roberts/talking-points-on-the-gor_b_42335.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3139047

[proud patriot]

6. LTTE's would be a good place to start

:hi:

[Erika]

10. Please keep posting this on Gore being 100% Green

on a regular basis. I know the right wingers lurk here and maybe moree left blogs will pick it up. Thanks!

[Botany]

11. but the right wing will continue to throw shit @ Gore wanting some to stick

do you have a link?

BTW John Kerry after being hit by shrapnel pulled a man out of
the river while being shot at .... = bronze star .... but the right wing
sold him as a "swift boat coward."

[physioex]

12. I figured as much....

Anyways they have the same program here where you can choose to pay slightly higher for green power. Ofcourse I can't afford 100%, but I do participate in the program and encourage other DUrs to join theirs.

[Porcupine]

13. Ok, help me out here....

My boss is this freeper and I'm trying to convince him that purchasing green power to offset the office's AC bill in summer will help the company out and be in his best interests.

1)When my boss the freeper comes back and says that purchasing "100 percent green" power is a fashion accessory for rich liberals you answer........

2) How does a surchage that makes green power consumption MORE expensive than the same power usage from the coal plant encourage conservation? Does "Green Power" make the office AC work better Why is this better than purchasing an electric supply such as solar panels or windmills myself? The gas station on the corner has a bunch of solar panels.

3) There are many criticisms of purchased carbon credits. What is the bonding agent who confirms that I get the full value of carbon sequestration for my purchase? How can he display his carbon credits to his advantage.

4)If I take a 800 mile jet flight on tuesday and purchase a credit on thursday how long is it till the carbon released from the flight is offset by my purchase of credits?

Just wondering as to how we can use Al Gore's example to the earth's advantage.

[Liberal In Texas]

15. So, they're totally idiots, right?

:banghead:

[Porcupine]

16. Why would you say that?

:shrug:

[joshcryer]

17. A few responses.

Porcupine, the best answers invoke what we might consider your bosses biases, stuff about economics and morality.

When my boss the freeper comes back and says that purchasing "100 percent green" power is a fashion accessory for rich liberals

The infrastructure needs to be paid for by someone. If it's rich liberals then I'm all the more happier, because as more gets built and more investment is made, the price will come down.

How does a surchage that makes green power consumption MORE expensive than the same power usage from the coal plant encourage conservation?

Hmm, if you're willing to pay the extra surcharge then you are already encouraged. For others who are discouraged by the extra cost, it is up to those courageous fellows out there to make it happen. And bring down the price for everyone. Cars were ridiculously expensive compared to horses. The converse of this argument may be "How does cars being so expensive encourage using cars?"

Does "Green Power" make the office AC work better Why is this better than purchasing an electric supply such as solar panels or windmills myself?

If you have more efficient energy star appliances, it might. "Going Green" is more than just paying for carbon offsets or buying renewable energy. It's also about using more efficient technologies.

And it's not 'better.' It's the "most reasonable solution." To go green you don't have to give up everything. Maybe you don't have enough roof space to provide for your energy needs. Green power from electric companies may not even be literally coming from a renewable resource. The key is that you are funding innovations and technologies that are renewable. Thus helping bring down the price for everyone just like when we transitioned from horse and buggy to cars.

There are many criticisms of purchased carbon credits. What is the bonding agent who confirms that I get the full value of carbon sequestration for my purchase?

Depends on who you go through.

If I take a 800 mile jet flight on tuesday and purchase a credit on thursday how long is it till the carbon released from the flight is offset by my purchase of credits?

Does it matter? Carbon trading can be theoretically seen as an instant type of purchase. Even if it takes a couple of weeks or even months for your carbon to be sequestered, you have added your carbon sequestering to the equation. People who own carbon blocks already for investment purposes would give you their blocks in the immediate term.

Think about it this way. You buy 100 tons of carbon blocks tomorrow. It would take a few months for that 100 tons to actually be sapped up by the environment. However, someone else already owns 100 tons of carbon blocks which they're willing to sell you at the price you brought them at. (Mind you they have these 100 tons of carbon blocks for investment purposes, it's not a block of carbon they're reselling from someone elses desire to sequester.)

[Porcupine]

18. I guess we do it all wrong out west....

We do crazy things like this:

We build lodges in the mountains out of straw. (no huffing and puffing)
http://www.skillful-means.com/projects/lotus/Lotus%20House.html

Lotus House, located along the Trinity River in Northern California, contains eleven spacious rooms for meditation retreat. Each room enjoys spectacular views of the surrounding landscape and features an outside door, with a private deck area. Individual rooms have their own hot and cold water, and each floor is served by a kitchen, two full baths and toilet rooms.

Provisions for mechanical night venting were included in the original design, but the building performs well, even in 115 degree heat, and the system hasn't been installed. The building holds its heat in winter, and many residents turn their heat off at night, even when temperatures drop below freezing

And in the desert too:

And in the Valley:

http://www.skillful-means.com/projects/masa/masa.html
They hardly require any energy to heat and cool.
Even coffehouses:

http://www.strawhousecoffee.com/ (it's a great place to watch kayakers)

We make our beer brew itself:

and keep the bad guys in the cooler for cheap.

This place teaches us how to get it right


But, shit we've been doin it all wrong. We could just buy carbon credits.

[joshcryer]

19. That's just one way to help.

I'm not saying it's the only way, and I don't think Gore or anyone else is either.

Do you dispute that it helps?

[Porcupine]

21. Carbon credits should be like emergency rations.

You dig around in the pantry, the garden, the fridge and you knock on your neighbors door before you admit you don't have something else to eat.

Likewise you send your best intern to go down the very long list of things that could save energy at home before you start purchasing carbon offsets. That includes means of making your own power.

Carbon credits are ideal for defraying jet airline travel. You can't very well walk to Europe in any reasonable period of time. They should no more be anybodies first option than the dried survival bar in the glove compartment.

Energy saving can be GOOD!! Glamourous and sexy. Go look at those pictures again. (okay, not the county center) I know people with rammed earth and straw bale houses and people beg for tours. A straw bale house is a tourist attraction while a Prius is rapidly becoming just another car.

[sandnsea]

23. Thank you

The travel industry is going green too, more hotels every day. In the same way, I want to know what our leaders are doing with their 10,000 sq ft homes. It better be more than changing some light bulbs when they get around to it.

"The historic Parker Ranch on the Big Island of Hawaii uses a sun and wind energy system to create enough energy to replace 70,000 barrels of oil in its 25 year life. Once the largest in the world, the system sits on 2 acres and uses rotating panels to create 29% more energy than a stationary system. Mauna Lani Bay Hotel and Bungalows was the first hotel in Hawaii to install solar and is now the largest solar-powered resort in the world. They also have solar powered golf carts and massage spa, contributing to a total savings the equivalent of 4,600 cars annually and a projected $5 million over the next 25 years."

http://scenicamericablog.com/?p=41

[johnaries]

27. some of us don't have those options.

Yes, building green is a better answer, but I already own a house with a mortgage and can't afford to build a new green one. So, aside from renovating, green energy and carbon offsets are the only options available to me right now. Once more options are available, I'll be happy to take advantage of them.

[Porcupine]

28. Insulation, windows, HVAC retrofits, light bulbs....

water heaters and the addition of solar panels could make your existing home an eco-powerhouse. Most of these projects are done by advancing your existing maintenance a few years with an eye towards jobs that will net you the best improvement in your cash flow.

The solar energy center has many recommendations for improvements you can make. Whole Earth news is another source of cheap projects with big yields.

[sandnsea]

14. It DOES matter

If we were at a place where we knew that all energy could be replaced with 100% green energy, then the amount of power rich people use wouldn't matter. We aren't there yet. Consequently, those who are asking the rest of the country to change have a greater responsibility themselves. Al Gore has the money to reduce his use through new technologies, he should do everything possible to bring his reliance on public utilities down to zero. Same with Edwards. Somebody who refused to change one single light bulb or recycle one single product shouldn't get away with their excess by writing carbon checks and buying up limited green fuel. Same with Al Gore or John Edwards or John Kerry or any other Democrat. It's great that his bill is powered by green energy, but is he depriving other people from using green energy by not greening his house 100%? That's the question and it's an important question for everybody to ask. This is going to require those with the most do the most because those at the bottom aren't going to be able to do much more than make sure their tires are properly inflated.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. Is there enough demand for Green Energy that Al Gore is driving the price up?

I think that the bottom line is that until there are new technology breakthroughs, most people won't be able to afford green energy and therefore Gore isn't really using up a scarce resource because there's not enough demand for it to be scarce. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[sandnsea]

22. We don't know

Because nobody will ask the questions. It's really annoying the hell out of me that so many people on DU are willing to just turn the other way and not even question whether our leaders are doing everything they can to reduce energy consumption. If Dem leaders like Gore & Kerry don't set the example, who will?? And if they are, then just open up their homes and let the world see just what can be done these days. It's a lot more than fluorescent lights, that's for sure.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. I think it's a kneejerk reaction to respond to the right wing attacks

And considering that 99% of the time right wing attacks are based on bullshit, I think it's warranted. But I agree that your question should be addressed.

My understanding of the matter is that as I said above, Green Power isn't in particularly high demand in most of America, particularly where Gore's home is located. Unfortunately at this time it is something that only the rich can afford unless you live in an area with lots of windmills or if you save up the money to put solar panels on your home.

[sandnsea]

25. Same response I had to Edwards' house

and his ridiculous response that they were changing their light bulbs as the old ones burned out. Good lord what a dumb answer. They should have had a consultant to make sure the lighting was appropriate when they put it in. There are solar shingles available now, not just panels. There is certified wood and organic fibers. These people have the money to do everything available. If they don't, again, who will? It's not kneejerk. If they're going to lead, then they by god better lead. That's not so much to ask.

[Porcupine]

26. It's too much to ask. Really.

I had it explained to me by a very wise old yoga teacher (mom, cough, cough) that not everybody understands that these options even existed. Pointing out that Al Gore and John Edwards are 15 or 20 years behind early adapters does nothing for the people who are just now figuring out what a compact flourescent bulb is. It just scares the crap out of them.

What we need to do is to have some attractive public figure march around to all of these places and highlight how functional and comfortable they are. That same public figure needs to revamp their home life to match that of Ed Bagely (sp?) jr.

[sandnsea]

32. That's what I said

They need to hire a truly excellent consultant or two, then get Diane Sawyer to track the upgrades to greening a home. Differentiate between what everybody can do, like changing lightbulbs, with what the future will bring. People got excited about computers before they were affordable to everybody, we can do the same with green technologies. I also don't think some of this is as unknown as mom might think. My own local flooring company is able to recommend green flooring, and this is a tiny town of 7000 people.

[Zenlitened]

29. I think you're right. And further, Gore.and others who opt to buy green power...

... are supporting fledgling industries. Paying more than they have to, in order to get green power initiatives off the ground.

And by doing so, they're helping move green power from 'experimental' to mainstream. At which point the price comes down for all of us, at least in theory.

Remember when the first VCRs (videocassette recorders) came out, 'way back when? They were like a thousand bucks or more -- plainly, for the rich folks. Eventually, before they were knocked out of the picture by DVD players, you could get a VCR for like 20 bucks.

And even DVD players have traced out a similar trajectory. Most technologies do: When they're new and novel, they're expensive and used mostly by the well-off. Eventually, as the technology (and the production methods) improve, they get easier to mass-market and the prices come down. Computers. Big-screen TVs. Cellphones -- heck, low-end cellphones are practically considered disposable these days.

I see green power technology following the exact same pattern. Thanks to people like the Gores who -- unlike someone who own the first VCR, DVD or big-screen TV -- don't even get some snazzy 'tech-bling' to show off, necessarily.

Do they get "Snooty Liberal" bragging rights? Yeah, maybe. That's what the right-wingers might call it.

Progressives might call it a Satisfied Mind. Knowing they're doing a little something to help society. Just because they're able to.

What a concept. No wonder the rightwing bile-spitters are flinging their poison. They can't stand such stark reminders that Progressive values are simply better values than anything they've put on the table.

That's not snooty. That's just a fact.

[Lurking Dem]

30. No it's always been that high here.

It's kind of a weird system. Almost like offsets.

They aren't guaranteeing that the actual power you get is green. But your added cost enables them to add renewable source energy into the Tennessee valley power mix.

Since we have an abundance of coal and water to cool coal fired and nuclear the renewable stuff costs more than what is currently available.

They also use hydro but I think coal is something like 60+% of our power.

[johnaries]

35. He is helping create more demand. The more demand, the more

companies will invest.

We need to increase the demand for green energy in order to get more invested in it.

[sandnsea]

38. Create a low-income fund

Subsidize other people's usage of green energy. Don't use MORE energy just to create demand, that's insane.

[johnaries]

34. Actually, if you read his response, he IS improving his energy

efficiency. He is installing solar panels and uses compact flourescent bulbs as well as other improvements he's making.

[sandnsea]

37. Who?

You think Al Gore is just now getting around to greening his home???

[spanone]

31. Ain't it 'funny' how the MSM can overlook the essence of this story and report only the Rights's b.s

on second thought, it ain't funny whatsoever.

[FourScore]

33. k&r

[dkofos]

36. That is great BUT,

I wouldn't go thanking Nashville Electric Service for charging extra for green power.