Women of Florida to be tightly controlled by men in suits.

[madfloridian]

Women in Florida may soon have to have an ultrasound before they can get an abortion. It is already nearly impossible here with all the restrictions. Now in addition to the ultrasound, rape victims must have proof of their assault if they want to forego the ultrasound.

And if you don't have insurance, guess you pay for the ultrasound yourself.

It passed the Florida House on April 2, and the Senate just approved it in the health regulation committee.

Chan Lowe puts it powerfully.



With all the serious problems this state has, the Republican-dominated legislature always manages to find the time to address this subject in an election year. Gay marriage, in recent years, has become another reliable vote-getter. It's one of those amazing natural phenomena that the fate of the unborn and the sanctity of heterosexual marriage never seem to be under threat in years that end with odd numbers.
From the Sun Sentinel

Now more details from the Florida Baptist Witness, the official newsletter of the Southern Baptist Church in Florida. It is also the voice of the Florida Republican-led legislature, sadly. It is where they go to cater to the religious right in Florida.

Senate panel approves ultrasound abortion bill

TALLAHASSEE (FBW) – The Senate Health Regulation Committee approved legislation requiring ultrasounds prior to an abortion on a largely party-line, 4-3 vote April 8, with one Democrat supporting the bill and one Republican in opposition.

Sponsored by Sen. Daniel Webster (R-Winter Garden), a member of First Baptist Church of Central Florida in Orlando, a similar bill, HB 257, was approved by the Florida House of Representatives on April 2.

“Now, if you’re afraid of the facts or afraid of the truth than you’re going to hide that. I don’t want to hide it; I want it to be available,” Webster said of ultrasounds that vividly show the growing life in the womb.

Noting that Florida’s informed consent law already requires ultrasounds be performed on pregnant women and girls seeking abortions in the second and third trimester, Webster rhetorically asked, “what’s the difference between the last six months and the first three? It’s just a matter of where that fetus in the development is. And this is an opportunity to see first hand. … This is better information than a piece of paper.”

I fear for my state with its present leaders. The Democrats, instead of calling them out publicly on such things as this...mostly choose to go along to get along.

[DJ13]

1. The Democratic officials there need a wakeup call

Why vote for them if they are they same thing as Republicans in their policies?

[madfloridian]

2. Even if they vote against stuff, they don't speak up. They needed to speak out on this.

Loudly.

[femrap]

33. Maybe this is where my

legislative assholes got the idea??? I think a woman Dem should propose a law that a man's penis must be tested before intercourse! We need to determine 'fuckability.' Is it really worth the women's time and effort to put up with a penis that just doesn't know how to do it right. Can the owner of the penis spell 'C L I T O R I S ?'

I know that sounds funny....but seriously, this crap has to stop. We need to attack these assholes and get them on the defensive for a change. How about a law that removes testicles of convicted rapists.

Here's a good law: Prescriptions for viagra can be filled only for women customers. That'll put them on the defensive.

[Triana]

3. Oh Look. The G*ddamned American F*cking Taliban Strikes Women Again

....control FREAKS.

[madfloridian]

5. Look how often they have used the Florida Baptist Witness to get publicity

for their agendas...the right wing agendas.

Florida House Speaker tells Baptist Witness he may consider bill to protect teachers who criticize evolution.

Katherine Harris used it to say God chooses our rulers.

God is the one who chooses our rulers

And they encouraged a judge to withdraw from church since he did not go along on the Schaivo case.

Judge in Schiavo case withdraws membership from church.

[Triana]

6. What a bunch of whacko religious extremeists...

...so much for separation of church and state.

Taliban. Ugh.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

4. They remind me of the dipshits in the AZ Lege.

We have a massive budget shortfall, thanks to their stupid-ass tax cuts (which are pretty much permanent thanks to a Constitutional amendment passed in the early 90s) yet they are currently debating bills about gay marriage and letting teachers carry guns.

We have some pretty good Dems and THANK GOD Janet Napolitano as our Gov, but sadly the GOP has a majority in both the Senate and the House. I had high hopes about picking up some seats but with McInsane (R Ugh!) at the top of the ticket I don't know how that will pan out.

[Elspeth]

7. K & R

I HATE this crap.

[gateley]

8. This is infuriating.

I'm so sorry for what's happening there.

At my age (55), we were SO going in the right direction for awhile. My first two votes EVER were to legalize abortion, and to make it illegal to discriminate against gays (WA State). I never, ever dreamed we'd be swinging back to where we were.

[madfloridian]

11. They really are trying to back to the 50s

It is sad.

[KamaAina]

24. Yeah. The 1350s.

Sad, indeed.

[Iris]

42. Probably women were better off in this are in the 1350s.

That would have been the time when women took care of each other's reproductive needs - contraception, pregnancy, childbirth, and abortion, if necessary.

[madrchsod]

31. remember there`s at least one generation

of women who know nothing of the coat-hanger....

[madfloridian]

38. Or ones who know nothing of the friends who disappeared for 7 to 9 months

as though nothing had happened. Then they just returned with no explanation. No one spoke of it, ever.

[Iris]

44. or know nothing of Becky Bell...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becky_Bell

[Digit]

9. I wish I was very wealthy and could provide the funds for these women

This kind of thing really ticks me off.

[no_hypocrisy]

10. A mandated ultrasound of a zygote?

A clump of cells without form?

[cynatnite]

12. And the abuse and oppression of women continue on...

Hate is a waste of energy, IMO, but sometimes it's damn easy to feel when it comes to shit like this.

[AngryAmish]

13. Florida, again

Can't we just kick them out of the nation?

[madfloridian]

14. And they don't even seem to get embarrassed.

They really don't seem to view themselves as others view them..

[madfloridian]

15. More details on the bill. They debated it for a whole afternoon.

Florida is in serious financial trouble, so they debate abortion.


http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/apr/09/me-abortion-bil... /

"TALLAHASSEE - A Senate healthcare committee narrowly moved forward a bill Tuesday that would require a woman seeking an abortion to have an ultrasound and for her physician to explain the ultrasound results to her.

The woman would not be forced to see the ultrasound.

The bill's powerful sponsor, Sen. Dan Webster, the Senate Majority Leader, advocated the legislation as a way to ensure that a woman makes the most informed decision when it comes to terminating her pregnancy.

"I don't think it's doing anything other than it provides information in a much more clear way so an informed decision can be made," said Webster, R-Winter Garden.

The full House last week passed a similar bill, with members debating the issue for almost an entire afternoon.

Unlike the House version, which is sponsored by Rep. Trey Traviesa, R-Tampa, the Senate bill does not have a provision that requires young girls to take on court-appointed guardians to shepherd them through the abortion process if they don't have parental consent."

[Skittles]

53. wouldn't this get doctors up in arms?

to know they are being mandated to essentially TORMENT women for no reason

[MountainLaurel]

16. But remember, abortion really isn't about controlling women

As some DUers like to remind us from time to time.

[Sam Ervin jret]

17. Florida needs to mandate an MRI on the legislator's brains every time they try to pass ignorant laws

And no insurance accepted. They must pay for it themselves, because we pay for their insurance.

How to decide if any law Florida passes is considered ignorant and therefore the MRI law is in effect?

They vote.

[gollygee]

18. What constitutes proof of rape?

How on earth is that proven?

Awful.

[SeattleGirl]

19. Here:

The "clock" or Colposcopy, exam:

The Role of Colposcopy in the Rape Exam

Historically, three primary mechanisms exist for the rape exam: direct visualization, staining, and colposcopy. Table 2 (see next page) provides definitions and an overview of these techniques with relevant research findings.

Although the first description of a forensic examination using a colposcope appeared in 1981 (Teixeira, 1981), the most cited works are two studies by Slaughter and others (Slaughter & Brown, 1992; Slaughter, Brown, Crowley, & Peck, 1997). As part of their California county's suspected abuse response team, Slaughter and Brown (1992) were the first to report the regular use of colposcopy for rape examinations in adult women. They found that 87% of rape victims (N=131) had identifiable injury via colposcopy. Typical mounting injuries were lacerations, ecchymosis, and swelling at 3, 6, and 9 o'clock on the posterior fourchette.

Several years later, Slaughter et al. (1997) reported on colposcopic findings following rape in 311 women and children and compared them to 75 controls. They found positive anogenital findings in 68% (213 of 311) of rape victims as compared to a rate of 11% in controls having consensual sex (n=75). Rape victims had a mean number of injury sites equaling 3.1. Of the control (consensual sex) subjects, only 11% (8 of 75) had documented injury. All 8 subjects had a single site of injury, and in the 4 injured control participants who returned for follow-up, all injuries had resolved by the time of the second visit.

Several methodological issues, however, existed with the Slaughter (1997) study. Subjects in the consensual sex group were examined in the first 24 hours following intercourse, whereas the rape victims were seen from 0 to more than 72 hours after assault. Of the 227 subjects with penile penetration, 69 were seen 72 hours or more after the rape. The nature of the control population raised serious questions about the study findings as well. The majority of the subjects in the consensual sex group (48 of 75) were seen initially because of reported rape, but eventually admitted to consensual sex. Minors were also included in the control group. Investigator bias was another methodological issue. The investigators both performed the exams and evaluated the data rather than using blinded experts to classify injury location, number, and type. The rating procedure was not specified, including number of raters and the rating system employed. No effort was made to control for degree of lubrication, condom use, partner size, duration of the encounter, and other variables in the consensual sex group. In spite of the limitations of the study, it provided the first large-scale evaluation of colposcopy as a diagnostic means to determine consensual sex versus rape.

[Coexist]

22. lets hope this is ruled unconstitutional.

[jeanruss]

20. abortions

I have had this idea for a while to solve the abortion impasse. I know it's controversial, but I think in a compromise, both sides have to give. I am pro-choice, however, I could support this in lieu of rescinding Roe v. Wade. If abortion rights are waived, in return there should be DNA testing. When the father is proven, he should be compelled to support the child that is created until it turns 18, or is adopted. If it is a minor that is the father, his parents should have to support the child until he is able to do so. For too long women have been the only ones held responsible for an unwanted pregnancy. Parents would greatly change the attitude with which they raise their sons. They would be as concerned about unprotected sex as the parents of girls. Molesters, whether they are in the family or out, would be exposed and stopped. Many girls have abortions for monetary reasons, not because they are immoral. They know they have no support from their families or boyfriends or government. There of course need to be measures regarding rape, incest etc., but I think it is time to really analyze this issue. I wonder if the anti-abortion crowd would put their morals where their mouths are, if they knew that girls would start to have protections finally, from the disregard for their plight. I think we would see a return to more conservative, responsible behavior from BOTH sexes, if there are consequences to behavior. There would be more and better adoption, this wedge issue would finally be resolved, and girls and babies would finally have some societal support. It has always bothered me that in a supposedly enlightened society, we are still treating women's issues as they did in the Middle Ages.

[Iris]

40. Not good enough for me. This is not a compromise I'd be willing to make.

Honestly, I believe if someone feels she is not ready to be a mother, she shouldn't have to become one. Of the many women I've known who had abortions, none of them did it for strictly monetary reasons.

[lukasahero]

49. Arguments like this don't understand that pregnancy is a health care concern

for women - not just a financial transaction. It's not about morals - it's about the right to determine one's own fate.

[Skittles]

55. your idea STINKS

suppose the gal wants NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FATHER OF THE BABY....which happens A LOT

[jeanruss]

56. who said?

I didn't say that a woman has to have any relationship with the father. My suggestion is for the financial welfare of the child. If a life is created, a woman has to carry that baby, risk her life to give birth(yes it is still dangerous to give birth) and then love and support that new life. At a minimum, money should be provided for this new life that didn't ask to be born. Of course the optimum is for the child to have two parents who love it dearly, but we know that isn't always possible.

[Scout]

58. your idea still stinks

women are not incubators...

[Lars39]

59. A woman *does not* have to take that risk.

You are advocating forced pregnancies.

[apocalypsehow]

60. Isn't that swell of you to "compromise" with other people's rights. I'm sure women everywhere will

be thanking you for your input on how they should manage their lives. What other fundamental rights are up for "compromise" on your list?



How about this, instead? If you don't want to have an abortion, don't have one. And keep your "compromises" out of other women's lives. How about that?

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Has the adoption process become a racket?

Anyone know if lawyers have gotten busted for charging large fees for finding and placing babies?

[madfloridian]

23. You really MUST read the FL legislature page at Florida Baptist Witness.

http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/2008legislature.fb...

These are serious folks with a serious agenda, and they are right on top of getting their wishes through the legislature with help from their friends.

[Iris]

45. "Christian Rules of Engagement?"

Jesus H. Christ.

[madfloridian]

52. Yes, even the Speaker of the House posts there. Link

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Not kidding at all.

[Iris]

57. horrible.

Can't judge your state though. We've got a NRA bill sitting on the Governor's desk here in GA.

[The_Commonist]

25. OK... I'll admit that I can be a bit thick at times...

I don't understand - what is the purpose of them wanting women to get an ultrasound before getting an abortion? Both the stated purpose and the underlying evil purpose?

Seriously, I don't get it, and I would like to understand.

Thanks!

[madfloridian]

27. Ultrasound already required except for early weeks.

It is just another way to restrict abortions. There is nothing wrong with an ultrasound per se....just requiring it for no reason.

Late term abortions not allowed anyway. Why ultrasound so early on?

[JerseygirlCT]

28. Delay, added cost - they'll do anything to trip a woman up

when she's attempting to exercise her rights to her own body.

Every woman they succeed in dissuading from an abortion - for financial reasons, inadequate insurance, time... they count a big win.

Makes me so angry I can barely put a sentence together!

[truedelphi]

51. I also don't understand how this can be enforced.

No one has to tell the state they are pregnant. And if they leave the state to have the abortion, they aren't going to be pointed out to the authorities, are they?

[JerseygirlCT]

26. That's vile, really vile.

I'm speechless.

You have my sympathies.

[tbyg52]

29. Is this a conspiracy to make Texas look good? nt

[madfloridian]

30. LOL

[mondo joe]

32. The women of Florida should stop voting for those men in suits. NT

[Iris]

35. and stop fucking the men who do.

I mean, my God, why can't people see how important this issue is?

[Brigid]

36. Ah, yes . . .

the "Lysistrata" method. Me likey.

This is why I just do not trust those in the so-called "pro-life" movement.

[Iris]

37. yeah - "Lysistrata" - that's what I'm talkin' about!

[mondo joe]

39. The thing I think people fail to recognise is that women are about as anti choice as men.

Women make up the majority of voters. Even with a mediocre range of candidates, a pro choice candidate could easily be carried by women, even if all voters cast votes on gender lines.

I'm a 100% pro choice man, and the point is: it's not men who are the problem; it's authoritarians and religious nuts.

[Iris]

41. yes, I know you are right.

but, personally, I wouldn't be with a man who wasn't pro-choice.

[mondo joe]

43. Me neither!

[Iris]

46. :)

[Iris]

34. Since most folks can barely discern their babies in first tri-mester sonograms, I guess Webster has

a point.

I mean, seriously, there must be a HUGE difference between a fetus less than 12 weeks old and one that is 26 weeks old.

Not that any of that matters. This is a decision to be made by a woman on her own terms.

[Canuckistanian]

47. This puts an end to the myth that FL Republicans are "logically" motivated

This is a purely emotional move, devoid of any logic.

They hope to sway emotionally stressed women to make a choice by an unfair process of enforced guilt.

Abraham Lincoln would be proud.

[Brigid]

48. Will the last woman to move out of Florida . . .

please turn out the lights. *sigh*

[L. Coyote]

50. Is there a minimum wage measure on the ballot this time?

These issue determine who votes, who registers even. Don't let the Rs dominate that theatre in your state.

[truebrit71]

54. Wow, FL is one fucked up state....

...