Paper BALLOTS vs "paper trail". Flawed Voting bill in House

[annabanana]

Beyond the apparent compromise appeasing both sides of the paperless voting machine debate, the bill also has constitutionally significant ramifications because it accords paper printouts with the same legal standing as hand-marked paper ballots. This factor could become very significant for close elections and recounts.

More at link: http://www.alternet.org/election08/81163/?page=2

[RC]

1. NO! This is not much better than what we have now.

They are still going to use the hacked machine count and there is no way to verify the print out conforms to the machine count.

The best way is Voter Marked Paper Ballots. The people pushing the machine either do not understand the why of the machines in the first place or if they do, are guilty of approval of the Election Fraud these machines are made for.

[Wilms]

2. I'm not a huge Holt fan, but a lot of folks go out of their way to be pissy about anything he writes

What your OP seems to say is that the electronic tally of a DRE is preferred to the tally of it's VVPAT.

I'm not getting that position too well.

There article linked also regurgitates that tired nonsense about the bill not banning DREs therefore...this rounds word...it "solidifies" their use. :eyes:

My issue is that the bill doesn't outlaw war, world hunger, global warming, Bush's, and Vichy Democrats.

Some of the EDA folks should decide if they really prefer standing on the sidelines creating complaints, or getting legislation written and passed. They're entertaining themselves, each other, and wasting a lot of bandwidth, literally and figuratively.

[flor de jasmim]

3. About 3 weeks ago I saw (youtube?) videos on how these paper receipts...

were also highly "manipulable"... they are definitely not the same as real paper ballots.

[annabanana]

4. All they will provide is a copy of whatever the machine did.

No relation to what the voter did.

[Wilms]

5. "No relation to what the voter did." Where did you get that disinfo?

I think someone is trying to make activists seem unknowledgeable.

There may be a greater possibilty that DRE VVPAT printers produce a record of what the voter ACTUALLY did, while the electronic tally did otherwise. In fact, that is considered the obvious hack mode.

But that's in conflict with what the OP claims. So the charade continues.

[Bill Bored]

6. So do you oppose this bill, which pays for 100% HCPB in fed elections?

You do know it pays for 100% hand counted paper ballots in federal elections, don't you?

If not, perhaps you should reconsider whatever your position is.

Also, the bill is voluntary so no one has to change a thing. NY could even keep their levers under this bill, unlike HR811 in its present form.

So I support this one.

[Bill Bored]

7. In some states, they arleady have the same legal standing.

In NY, for example, paper ballots and VVPATs have the same legal standing, but the only way either can be used to change the outcome of an election is to hand count them ALL. This bill would PAY for that.