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Police Arrest 80 Yr Old Protester In Wheelchair At Mall - For Wearing "Dead" & "Enough" T-Shirt

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:23 PM
Original message
Police Arrest 80 Yr Old Protester In Wheelchair At Mall - For Wearing "Dead" & "Enough" T-Shirt
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 03:24 PM by kpete
Police Arrest Anti-War Protester, 80, At Mall
Submitted by davidswanson on Sun, 2008-03-30 19:03. Media
By Anastasia Economides & Matthew Chayes, Newsday

An 80-year-old church deacon was removed from the Smith Haven Mall yesterday in a wheelchair and arrested by police for refusing to remove a T-shirt protesting the Iraq War.

Police said that Don Zirkel, of Bethpage, was disturbing shoppers at the Lake Grove mall with his T-shirt, which had what they described as graphic anti-war images. Zirkel, a deacon at Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal in Wyandanch, said his shirt had the death tolls of American military personnel and Iraqis - 4,000 and 1 million - and the words Dead and Enough. The shirt also has three blotches resembling blood splatters.

Police said in a release last night that Zirkel was handing out anti-war pamphlets to mallgoers and that mall security told him to stop and turn his shirt inside out. Zirkel refused to turn his shirt inside out and wouldnt leave, police said. Security placed him on civilian arrest and called police. When police arrived, Zirkel passively resisted attempts to bring him to a police car, the release said.

more at:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/32332
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pepperbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. YOU GO, DON! n/t
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Smith_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Fascism on the march.
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 03:26 PM by Smith_3
Arrest them pacifists...

when will it end?
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. The land of the free?
since when haven't we been allowed to wear teeshirts with messages on them?
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. The land of the free went the way of the home of brave: they were bushwhacked
:cry:
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Those people SHOULD be disturbed!
They've been living in la-la land for a long time, and they need to wake up and smell the death caused by this illegal, insane war.

I guess they don't want to worry their beautiful minds, though, so hey, let's arrest the messenger!

Fuckers!

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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Damn fucking right
People need to see the consequences of their actions. I don't mind when PETA shows the horror of slaughterhouses, or when protestors show the horror of war. We need to see what our actions are doing to people.

Its disgusting that people want to live in their coccoon of blissful ignorance. If you want to support a war, you need to see what the consequences are.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/image/tid/55
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. our local mall had an anti-Clinton protestor arrested in the 90's.
A mall is private property, not a public space. They have every right to set any conditions they please for someone visiting their property short of discrimination based on race, gender etc. The man's age and the fact he was in a wheelchair are just pure sensationalism in the story. -- I defy you to find a shopping outlet in this country that will allow highly volatile political protests on it's property. It has NOTHING to do with fascism, and EVERYTHING to do with the practicalities of commercialism.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. So, they are private spaces.
They lease space to other commercial enterprises.

If one of those enterprises decided to sell those t-shirts and display them in their shop window, could the mall tell them to remove the display?

If the movie theatre inside the mall decided to show an anti-war film with graphic imagery, could the mall tell them to stop?

Both of those things have the potential for volatility, but they are also free-enterprise, so I suppose they're acceptable?

(I'm not trying to be snarky, by the way - just wondering how these things work)
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. It all depends on the community I'd think and how it plays out PR wise.
I doubt there's any hard and fast rule about what mall management decides crosses the line and what doesn't. "Provacative" can draw in dollars by the truckload. "Offensive" keeps people out of the mall. And whether or not something is "Provacative" or "offensive" can be a very fine line indeed.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. We protest regularly here in my city - at shopping centers
This is fascism at its finest. There are court rulings supporting our rights to protest at malls. http://newsquake.netscape.com/2008/01/03/overlooked-the... /

Have you never heard of a boycott during a strike - accompanied by a picket?
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. hypothetical
I always wondered if it is within my rights to wear a "unionize Wal mart" shirt whilst shopping at wal mart?

Any input?

-90% Jimmy

Smithhaven Mall - I lived two towns over when they built the damn thing back in the early 70's. I'm so nostalgic for the good old Walt Whitman Mall in Huntington, which was about the only mall in Suffolk county back in the 60's. It was a big deal to go there, a real treat for a youngster back then.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Walmart can ask you to leave
it's thier store. They can ban anyone they please short of obvious illegal discrimination.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. And WalMart can be sued
Their store is a public place.
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TheMightyFavog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. One of the reasons Wal-Mart doesn't let the Salvation Army have Bellringers outside their stores.
Because every year, the local unions would sign up to be bellringers and ask to be put outside the local Wal-Mart. The Boilermakers local from the Ship factory in Marinette would do this every year until the decison to ban the bellringrs was handed down from corporate a few years later.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Did they toss him out on the floor when they arrived at book-in?



Lot of that going around you know. :eyes:



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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well Bush did say forget the war
and go shopping! People must not be reminded of their government's crimes. :sarcasm:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. And that is our motivation for protests at our area shopping malls
Not only are we not arrested, but the cops at one mall are there providing security. This weekend, they arrested some people who threw something at us as they drove by.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. At least they didn't dump him out on his face.
Just to make sure he needs the wheelchair.

-Hoot
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Actually, my interpretation of the article
indicates that he wasn't wheelchair bound, but, because he passively resisted, they put him in a wheelchair and wheeled him out.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Never commit the anti-war crime called 'peace' in a mall in Amerika.
And never 'passively resist' incarceration for promoting 'Peace on Earth.'



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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. Pruneyards & other case law re free speech in "private" malls:
http://yawiki.org/proc/Pruneyard_Shopping_Center

In the late 1970s, the PruneYard (Mall) was involved in a free speech dispute with some local high school students that ultimately went to the U.S. Supreme Court. See Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins, . In American constitutional law, the PruneYard is famous for its role in establishing two important rules:

...under the California Constitution, individuals may peacefully exercise their right to free speech in parts of private shopping centers regularly held open to the public, subject to reasonable regulations adopted by the shopping centers

...under the U.S. Constitution, states can provide their citizens with broader rights in their constitutions than under the federal Constitution, so long as those rights do not infringe on any federal constitutional rights

Marsh v. Alabama (1946) 326 U.S. 501, 502:

"The more an owner, for his advantage, opens up his property for use by the public in general, the more do his rights become circumscribed by the statutory and constitutional rights of those who use it." (Id. at p. 506.)

http://consumerist.com/337634/california-supreme-court-...


It is, of course, a joke to say that a shopping center may regulate political speech on the clothing of its customers.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. i would guess that handing out pamphlets isn't permitted
but wearing a t-shirt is.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Wrong!
Edited on Mon Mar-31-08 08:19 AM by elleng
'A pamphleteer is a historical term for someone who creates or distributes pamphlets. Pamphlets were used to broadcast the writer's opinions on an issue, for example, in order to get people to vote for their favorite politician or to articulate a particular political ideology.

A famous pamphleteer of the American Revolutionary War was Thomas Paine.'

wiki

CA supreme court recently ruled the mall of today is the town square of yesterday and the protestors can be there.

http://newsquake.netscape.com/2008/01/03/overlooked-the... ...

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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. Of course, there weren't any magazines in that mall with *truly*...
...disturbing images of the sort that people of all ages see every day.

American shoppers are just too sensitive to have to see and think about this kind of thing. Perfectly understandable. That guy is old enough to have learned some manners in four-score years. (No sarcasm icon. You get it or you don't!)
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
21. when will this shit end? long live dissenters.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
23. Don, thank you for your brave civil disobedience! Only in brainwashed America would such images...
...being shown as an act of protest over what our govt carries out in ALL of our names, with our tax $, be considered more offensive than the actual acts that result in such images.

Kudos, Don.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
24. Where did this happen?
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Smith Haven Mall is on Long Island
Suffolk County, NY
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. worlds like that threaten lil Lord Pissy pants
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IamyourTVandIownyou Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
29. Smith Haven Mall - Info
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
30. Local anti-war community needs to launch an immediate boycott
and constant picketing. Let mall merchants know they are losing $$$$ over this heavy-handed malarkey.

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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
31. Oooh.. Smith Haven
Five minutes from my home.

Can't wait till I get break from school. Havoc shall I cause.
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