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we DO need to stay in Iraq for 100 years, or until victory is secured

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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:29 PM
Original message
we DO need to stay in Iraq for 100 years, or until victory is secured
Listen up all you cut and runners, we need a victory in Iraq! It ain't gonna be easy. Lots of innocent folk will die. Our troops will suffer. Our occupation will make us less safe and hinder our ability to wage a global war on terror.

If we leave before victory is secured, all is lost.

I opposed this war (from the beginning, from 9-12-01 on actually) because I knew that "victory", also known as a pro-west, unified, stable, democratic Iraq was at least 50 hard years away. I knew it wouldn't be over in a couple weeks, or even a couple years.

So when all the facepainters (remember the Seinfeld episode with David Puddy, "Ya Gotta Support Your Team!") start calling for war with Iran, remember, our grandkids will be paying for it. And it won't be cheap. Or easy. Or worth it.

Props for McCain for saying what is true - we will be in Iraq for a lifetime. That is why this war should have been opposed.

And by "opposing" this war, I mean voting against the IWR, voting against funding, calling politicians to convince them to oppose the war, and protesting in the streets.

If we could have been out of Iraq, in victory, by 2010, then the war would have been worth fighting.

So lets get it together and stop the war with Iran. You know Bush wants it bad. Only we can stop him.

(to quote Jerry Garcia - "It is obvious someone has to do something. I just find it fucking pathetic that it is us.")
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. SEND IN THE UNITED NATIONS. WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT THEM THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 03:33 PM by The Stranger
WE, on the other hand, are getting the fuck out of Iraq.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. The UN never wanted to invade
Only the American facepainters wanted that.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. They had sent weapons inspectors who told us there were no WMD. Now they can keep the peace there.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. as we speak bu$h* is escalating the war.....NO POLITICAL PROGRESS
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Controlling Iraq is about oil as power, rather than oil as fuel"

The Thirty-Year Itch

News: Three decades ago, in the throes of the energy crisis, Washington's hawks conceived of a strategy for US control of the Persian Gulf's oil. Now, with the same strategists firmly in control of the White House, the Bush administration is playing out their script for global dominance.

By Robert Dreyfuss

March/April 2003 Mother Jones


If you were to spin the globe and look for real estate critical to building an American empire, your first stop would have to be the Persian Gulf. The desert sands of this region hold two of every three barrels of oil in the world -- Iraq's reserves alone are equal, by some estimates, to those of Russia, the United States, China, and Mexico combined. For the past 30 years, the Gulf has been in the crosshairs of an influential group of Washington foreign-policy strategists, who believe that in order to ensure its global dominance, the United States must seize control of the region and its oil. Born during the energy crisis of the 1970s and refined since then by a generation of policymakers, this approach is finding its boldest expression yet in the Bush administration -- which, with its plan to invade Iraq and install a regime beholden to Washington, has moved closer than any of its predecessors to transforming the Gulf into an American protectorate.

In the geopolitical vision driving current U.S. policy toward Iraq, the key to national security is global hegemony -- dominance over any and all potential rivals. To that end, the United States must not only be able to project its military forces anywhere, at any time. It must also control key resources, chief among them oil -- and especially Gulf oil. To the hawks who now set the tone at the White House and the Pentagon, the region is crucial not simply for its share of the U.S. oil supply (other sources have become more important over the years), but because it would allow the United States to maintain a lock on the world's energy lifeline and potentially deny access to its global competitors. The administration "believes you have to control resources in order to have access to them," says Chas Freeman, who served as U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia under the first President Bush. "They are taken with the idea that the end of the Cold War left the United States able to impose its will globally -- and that those who have the ability to shape events with power have the duty to do so. It's ideology."

Iraq, in this view, is a strategic prize of unparalleled importance. Unlike the oil beneath Alaska's frozen tundra, locked away in the steppes of central Asia, or buried under stormy seas, Iraq's crude is readily accessible and, at less than $1.50 a barrel, some of the cheapest in the world to produce. Already, over the past several months, Western companies have been meeting with Iraqi exiles to try to stake a claim to that bonanza.

But while the companies hope to cash in on an American-controlled Iraq, the push to remove Saddam Hussein hasn't been driven by oil executives, many of whom are worried about the consequences of war. Nor are Vice President Cheney and President Bush, both former oilmen, looking at the Gulf simply for the profits that can be earned there. The administration is thinking bigger, much bigger, than that.

"Controlling Iraq is about oil as power, rather than oil as fuel," says Michael Klare, professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and author of Resource Wars. "Control over the Persian Gulf translates into control over Europe, Japan, and China. It's having our hand on the spigot."

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/03/ma_273_01.html


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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. "...would have been worth fighting?"
Based on what set of assumptions? It was a stupid idea from the get-go, and it's even stupider five years later. There's nothing to be gained by staying: the Iraqis will have their civil war sooner or later.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. if by 2010
Iraq was stable with a pro-west, democratic, unified government, then the war would have been worth fighting.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. If my cat shit gold doubloons, I'd be a millionaire.
Should I keep digging through the cat-box, hoping I get lucky?
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. yes
you should keep cleaning out the kitty litter. Your pet will appreciate it, the house will smell better, and you may become a gold billionaire.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. what is victory
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. a pro-west, unified, stable, democratic Iraq
you know, victory.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Is it right to shove western ideology down other nation's throats? nt
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 04:29 PM by RedCappedBandit
Edit: Sorry I think i'm being a bit too confrontational. I realize you were opposed to the war at the start. But what i'm really getting at is.. do you think it is really right or reasonable to STAY in Iraq even though it has been a mistake the entire time?
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Peace my friend.
As far as our (the American) next move in Iraq, I really am not sure. I don't know what course of action would be most beneficial to peaceloving people of the world. Personally, I am a cut and run surrender monkey. I want us out. Yesterday.

Everyone running for president will keep us there. No one will take us out of there and the UN doesn't want to foot the bill. Right or wrong, we are in. In for a penny, in for a pound.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. We can get out of Iraq tomorrow if we want to
And let's not forget, THEY want us out. Occupying a country that doesn't want us will never lead to stability.

Call it off, start bringing the troops home.
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