AlterNet: Fighting Words: How to Humiliate -- and Convert -- a Right-Winger

[marmar]

Fighting Words: How to Humiliate -- and Convert -- a Right-Winger

By John Dolan, AlterNet. Posted March 25, 2008.

Drop the condescending "populist" talk and get mean.




I'd like to suggest a very simple strategy for American liberals: Get mean. Stop policing the language and start using it to hurt our enemies. American liberals are so busy purging their speech of any words that might offend anyone that they have no notion of using language to cause some salutary pain.

Why, for example, not popularize slogans that mock the Bush loyalists as "suckers"? Something like, "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." Put that on a few bumper stickers and I guarantee a lot of "South Park Republicans" will quit the GOP. They just smirk when you tsk-tsk at them for being disrespectful. They want to be disrespectful; every normal young male wants to be.

And this, of course, brings up a big issue: At some point liberal writers are going to have to decide if it's OK to be young and male at all. For better or for worse, millions of American men hold on to playground ethics long after they leave elementary school. For most of them, the 2004 election came down to a classic playground scene: Would John Kerry defend himself when attacked by bullies? Liberals, still stunned by the way a legitimate combat vet like Kerry was beaten by a combat-dodging spoiled brat like Bush, never understood that for millions of voters, the question wasn't how well Kerry fought in Vietnam but whether he would fight in 2004.

Would he defend himself when called out by the gang of disgusting bullies Bush had gathered around himself? It would have been so simple, so glorious, if he'd just turned on his accusers and reacted like a human being: "You're questioning my record on behalf of a skunk like Bush who spent the war with the Alabama National Guard, and then went AWOL from the Guard?"

Millions of American voters were waiting, hoping Kerry would react like any sane person would have. He never did. I don't know why not; I assume he was in the hands of some Clinton gurus who babbled about "rising above the fray." Well, that sure worked well. ............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/80507/

[KingOfLostSouls]

1. ABSOLUTELY!!!!

the neville chamberlain approach to fascism didn't work then

it hasn't worked now.


many republicans earn the titles "douchebag" "f*ckhead" "asshat" etc etc

theres nothing wrong with reminding people, "Bush sucks, deal with."

[Tippy]

2. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers."

Works for me........

[Justice]

4. I would buy that bumper sticker

[Matariki]

61. Except the 'suckers' are deluded into thinking they *are* millionaires - or are about to become one

[silverweb]

65. Even worse suckers.

DUMB suckers!

[corkhead]

64. I have always called the republicon party a " coalition of the greedy and the stupid"

[silverweb]

66. I love it!

My new motto.

If I had a car, I'd put it on the bumper; maybe a new email signature line will do.
I can think of three people in my contact list right now who would be very displeased to see that! :evilgrin:

[TahitiNut]

73. "Republicans want to work for the richest CEOs; Democrats want to work for their families."

Something like that? :shrug:

[NMDemDist2]

3. "Big Truck, Small Dick"

:rofl:

[FredStembottom]

46. Here's an impolite line I have been using on anyone at the diesel

pumps with me. If they are fueling a work truck, like me, and complain out loud that the cost of diesel (over $4.00 here) is putting them out of business:

I ask: do you know why diesel costs more than gas now?

Usual response: Cuz' we didn't fuckin' bomb Iran into the stone-age!!!!!! (actual quote). (Retarded responses may vary)

I say: Naw... it's the container ships - you know - the ones bringing us EVERYTHING because we don't make anything ourselves. They burn 100 TONS of diesel a day! Just so that we could send all OUR jobs to COMMUNIST China.

Usual response: But we have to do that..... er.... I mean....they... no.....we.....ummmmm

I think COMMUNIST China could be just fine without our jobs and we can manufacture stuff here again - by us - for us.


It works. I can't believe we let Dittoheads conveniently forget that it's COMMUNIST China. That that's where our jobs went. That that's who makes our everything.

COMMUNISTChina.

[postulater]

49. That would work with my brother.

Thanks

[Hydra]

50. Well said

I often say to people "When did China become our friend? Are they a democracy?"

Yours is much more like a wooden stake...good job!

[silverweb]

67. Bravo!

Point made irrefutably in less time than it takes to fill up.

:applause:

[Echo In Light]

5. I don't advocate assimilating to rightist pathology and its manifestations, but...

Agree that way too many dems, irrespective of how "liberal" they may be, or fancy themselves even though they're pretty much on the same page as rightists re: many issues, definitely need to more comprehensively inform themselves on how power works, its aims, its propaganda techniques, etc

For example, when rightists attack the left, or even the dem party, over not being "strong" enough on National Security, the average dem will simply fall in line, buckling like a belt, allowing the War Pigs to frame the debate.

The standard dem response is to attempt to be as "strong" as the rightists, instead of doing what should be done, and outlining how the National Security State is a grotesque sham, a ruse which has zero to do with defense, and has everything to do with fascism and war profiteering. This is how dems pussy out - not by being less "strong," but by not actually showing strength and courage, leading by example, and speaking truth to power.

They either do this because, one, they truly do believe the parameters the rightists/hawks have established, or two, they are fearful of standing up to these bullies, or three, even though they may not agree in their heart, they're too uninformed/disinformed to articulate a response.

Either way, the right then appears "stronger," the mainline media plays this card to the nth degree, and this has a huge impact on those sitting on the fence.

[JPettus]

74. I'm also fond of pointing out to those, especially military or former military

That the Republicans aren't spending money on the people in the military, they are spending the money on high tech toys and kickbacks to lobbyists for those military-industrial companies. Money to companies like Halliburton that are caught again and again defauding the government and nothing is done to them.

Then I point out that a little research turns up that it's the Dems like Ted Kennedy that are fighting for more money for military families so they don't have to go on welfare while they serve our country.

And finish the discussion by pointing out that the Bush Admin announced it was cutting VA funding in the last two budgets and asked how they like the idea of a country that creates disabled vets and then tells them there is no money to help them recover from the injuries they sustained fighting for our country.

It tends to shut them up pretty quickly. And if they try to change the subject, "Yeah, but Clinton..." I remind them that we can deal with Clinton when we finish dissecting Bush and when we get to Clinton, I point out that everything the Republican Congress accused Bush of, they gave to Ken Starr and the only thing Ken Starr could find after 50 million dollars and lots of ethical violations was that Bill got a blowjob from a woman who wasn't his wife and lied about it in an illegal perjury trap. Then I tell them that's the reason the Repugs didn't file charges against Bill after he got out of office: they knew they could never make it stick.

By that time the right-wingers are generally ready to crawl back under their rock and lick their wounds (and their anatomy) for a while.

[formercia]

6. "It's your money"

another favorite GOP Meme.

12 Billion dollars a month of it.

[chat_noir]

9. a bumpersticker recommendation over at C&L

PAY YOUR TAXES
ENDLESS WAR AIN’T CHEAP



http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/24/bill-moyers-journal-body-of-war/

[Itchinjim]

60. And when I reply "It's also your debt"

Their heads explode.

[formercia]

84. Then you can add:

Who do you think is going to pay for all of this?

Maybe crackheads, homeless people or welfare queens? I don't think so.

[asthmaticeog]

7. Been saying this for years.

But whenever I talk about pimpsmacking "stay-above-the-fray" DLC toady dumbshits like Donna Brazille and Terry McAuliffe, does anyone fucking listen? Noooooooooooo... But Democratic politics are currently more captivating than ever precisely BECAUSE it's turned into a brawl. If we weren't incredibly, myopically, reflexively polite, we'd have been going after screamingly obvious Republican contenders like McCain and Romney with this kind of fierceness for the last 4 years already. Hell, we should already be attacking presumptive 2012 contenders now -- kind of like how the GOP's been on Hillary's ass forever, which is why she's certain to lose.

On the other hand, that would be meanypants. Let's keep losing, instead.

[Cassandra]

8. "Clinton gurus" are much better at attacking other...

Democrats than they are at attacking Republicans, who they are taking pains not to piss off. All in the illusory hope of not offending anyone in the center. They manage to offend everyone by being mush.

[nikto]

69. Man, ain't that the truth...

That "Clinton gurus" are much better at attacking other
Democrats than they are at attacking Republicans.
=================================================================================================
You just know that Big, tough Hillary will turn pussycat if she ever goes up against John Insane.

All those DLCers are just cowardly GOP-lites.

Republicans suck much ass, and they need to be told that, again & again & again.

Republicans=The Anti-Patriots.

[JPettus]

75. Well, that's not entirely true

I remember the campaigns in 1992 and 1996 and the Clinton war room. When the Repugs put out some ridiculous assertion (aka "lie") about Bill or the Democratic Party, the Clinton War Room had a response for the press in under 3 hours in which they showed the Repugs were wrong, this is what the truth is, and why the hell didn't the Repugs do the right thing in the first place?

And I think that kind of campaign strategy is absolutely necessary when dealing with the dirty tricks squad. Had Kerry been smart, he wouldn't have relied on his reputation as a leader and a war hero. He would have already had everything about his history in writing, vetted by others and at least the names of the people on those boats so when the Swift Boaters launched their attacks, someone could have pulled out the history on these guys and responded immediately.

Just my two cents, but I worked for Bill then and it should work today.

[Cassandra]

86. Were they defending Bill or the party?

I'm all for a war room and instant response but the mushy response since then suggests that it was mostly about the loyal troops defending Bill. The party, not so much.

[JPettus]

99. I believe both

The War Room was set up as a campaign strategy to respond immediately to accusations and lies spread by the Republicans prior to the election.

No doubt we need a full time war room with information year round but especially in an election year.

[riverdeep]

79. Exactly.

Dems CAN be viscous, just with each other. What if Clinton had fought as hard for SCHIP as she's doing with Obama, throwing in underhanded moves and the full force of the machine? She's just one example.

[VinnieF]

10. Wow, nice sentiment, but totally sexist...

"They want to be disrespectful; every normal young male wants to be."

Way to smear an entire segment of a gender. Really, if I were a fence-sitter and not a Democrat, this would REALLY win me over.

:eyes:

"...millions of American men hold on to playground ethics long after they leave elementary school."

And so do millions of women. But the author tip-toes around that unavoidable truism. Oh, and whilst on the subject, millions of American men and women do NOT adhere to so-called "playground ethics".

"If you want male voters' respect, stop patronizing them."

Indeed. And that doesn't just apply to male voters.

"Far better to insult them"

Now see? Author just lost me. Because being insulted is just what creates allegiance to a set of principles, right? Oy Vey...

"Half of what they say is designed simply to reassure themselves and their friends that they're not the same sort of wimps their social studies teachers tried to make them into."

Good God, John Dolan has a simplistic view of the male gender. Half of what men say is self-inflating effluvia that mitigates a childhood weakness complex? That is beyond insulting. Dolan took a good idea and mutilated it with his none-too-subtle misandry.

[KingOfLostSouls]

11. I think you're the kind of guy he was talking about

spend some time around a bunch of beer drinking truck drivers, bounty hunters, mechanics, and farmers who hunt deer and drink pabst and the last thing they want to hear is, "well my candidate has this health care plan rooted in blah blah blah..."


they wanna hear, "yeah but you gotta admit bush is a fucking idiot. seriously, he's like the dopey bosses kid who you wanna beat the crap out of."

or, "well yeah if you wanna keep working for crap pay and not have health care. that vote sure is working out for you."

[VinnieF]

13. The kind of guy he was talking about...

Seems to me to be no more than the kind with a penis.

"...beer drinking truck drivers, bounty hunters, mechanics, and farmers who hunt deer and drink pabst"

Well, not only did the article make no mention of a specific subset of men, but it would be facetious to assume that those who drink beer and work with their hands are some sort of idiots who can't (or won't) respond well to an intelligent, nuanced, complex argument about public policy.

"...yeah but you gotta admit bush is a fucking idiot."

I've been telling everyone I know that very thing for years. Those who refuse to recognize this truth I cut out of my life.

[KingOfLostSouls]

18. are you a barista?

kinda sounds like it.

[VinnieF]

19. No.

Coffee is pointless.

Are you a crop duster? I mean as long as we're asking each other about nonsense professions...

[KingOfLostSouls]

21. Just saying by some of your responses

you sound like someone who just got out of a poli sci 101 class and finally discovered chomsky.


"verily, we must not sink to their yonder level of moral impertitude and never let them misunderestimate the grit of our character. we should rise above the gender fray put before us and prance forward without bowing down before the unfair gender portrayals and show a kinder and gentler and more dignified fray."


the neville chamberlain response to fascists like bush has already proven to historically not work.

[VinnieF]

32. And you sound like someone who thinks that blue-collar = stupid.

"the neville chamberlain response to fascists like bush has already proven to historically not work."

Words of any sort do not work with fascists. The only thing that they understand is force. But to assume that anyone without a college education is incapable of intelligent discourse, and would invariably respond positively to questioning their masculinity is simply asinine.

[KingOfLostSouls]

34. Did I say blue collar = stupid?

nope. I AM blue collar

blue collar means "yes or no." you learn to talk to a layman like a layman and not couch your phrases in little things you saw on red dwarf.

blue collar people have an internal bullshit detector, and you go at them trying to sell them on something and being full of shit, they'll smell it. put things clear and concise and direct. people want direct, they don't wanna be handled.

and if you gotta put someone down, do it forcefully and with purpose. remind them how stupid they sound when they can't tell you if the world is flat or why they think dinosaurs were in the garden of eden. or if tax cuts worked so well, why we're in a recession.

you're a kucinich supporter originally aren't you? you got that overly P.C. attitude.

[fascisthunter]

58. No He Didn't Say That, but You Did (nt)

[we can do it]

63. Coffee Pointless???? Now You've Proven You're An Idiot

[FredStembottom]

47. Very, very good.

Gold star for the King.

And gas/diesel prices give endless opportunities to say stuff like that. Taking your example: "well, yeah if you want to keep working for crap pay and use it on $4.00/gallon gas..... keep voting the same way!

Folks - the dittoheads were promised, years ago, that being loyal conservatives would bring about 39 cent gas again. This issue stings like holy hell for them. RUB. IT. IN.

Talk about yer "teachable moment"!

[Echo In Light]

15. That line irked me as well. Language always gives people away

[ananda]

12. Beware..

.. in fighting monsters lest ye become one.

[asthmaticeog]

17. I'd take being a "monster" with wages and health care over being a churchmouse with nothing. nt

[fasttense]

14. I've always respected liberal fighters

I spent 20 years in the military because I like the good fight. I thought Edwards was that fighter but the media ignored him.

But Dolan has got it wrong about the populist talk. That populist talk is fighting words. I'm going to fight the corporations and the bush, boy-loving, slave holding, power mad republicans. It just depends on how you talk populism.

It pissed off to no end they way Al Gore gave into that illegal and undemocratic supreme Court decision to ignore votes and make their buddy the prez. Why didn't he call for all us uncounted to stage a march on Washington DC? Why did he just passively go along with the undemocratic and unconstitutional vote of the dancing supremes?

And again when Kerry just went along with the Ohio cheat. He never fought back despite thousands of letters. He wanted to remain statesman like and ended up losing.

I think our supposed Democratic Congress also doesn't want a fight because they keep giving the idiot in charge everything he wants. But they did stand up against the telecoms' immunity from the Constitution. And look they didn't die because they didn't give in to the pampered boy george. Maybe they will stand up again when they realize the bushes are a bunch of cowards.

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. You may recall, Al Gore danced and never looked happier

And Kerry never tolerated the crap my candidate withstands every day.

Whoever prevails this silly season will have to demonstrate the capacity to respond. We'll have another effective war room this election season.

As for confronting conservatives, I can only speak from personal experience: I was converted by reasoned debate, which is sorely lacking in political debate. It was a conclusion I reached after being educated ... again, not a valued commodity in our entertained world. Confrontation only made me more defensive - and while mockery is a kinder weapon, one to which I frequently resort - it is not meant to be an effective communications channel.

Gore did the best he could, opening a new media market. For all my disagreements w/him - and they are many and profound - I will give him credit for that.

[KingOfLostSouls]

20. judging by some of the responses on this board

must not be a lot of people out there who watch olbermann, maher, stewart, colbert, or like richard pryor, bill hicks, or david cross.


seriously, bunch of wimps.

[Echo In Light]

22. I have a big Bill Hicks poster on my wall right here. Pryor and Cross aside though,...

I most certainly wouldn't compare the rest of your list with the others, esp Hicks, George Carlin, and Dave Cross, who are {or were, in Hicks' case} actually quite dissident minded.

[KingOfLostSouls]

23. Then you should agree

theres nothing wrong with calling republicans "scat munchers."

[Echo In Light]

25. If it pleases you to do so. Depends on each individuals approach and mindset

Calling for - well, what exactly are you recommending? - a profanity uniformity via name-calling doesn't necessarily smack of liberalism or authoritarianism...although uniformity, and castigation for those who are non-compliant, in my estimation, leans quite rightward indeed.

[KingOfLostSouls]

28. Actually humiliation is a great weapon

if you're not willing to go all the way against the republicans, you will lose

once my candidate of choosing, joe biden, let loose on rudy giuliani, it helped turn him from front runner to laughing stock

"A noun, a verb, and 9-11" became probably the best definer of biden

either you define your opponent and destroy them or let them define you.


he brings a knife, you bring a gun. he sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue.

politics is a blood sport, and republicans are hyenas. learn to hunt or get eaten.

[Echo In Light]

30. "You're?" as in, me, or a dem candidate?

The average Joe can shoot his mouth off all he likes, and all it's going to do is create further tension and hostilities. Big deal. What's accomplished? Zero.

Now, if you mean an actual candidate, then it likewise won't really matter as the entire show is rigged, a "spectator democracy" with actors fulfilling their roles. No real substance, all be design. And you're criticizing others for coming off as just gotten out of Politic Science 101?

[KingOfLostSouls]

33. Obama has been doing it very smoothly

whenever he's like, "you know, this is politics, this is them making stuff yadda yadda."

he's not exactly calling someone a dickhead but he's doing it in a nicer way.


like I said, republicans are hyenas. they're not gonna play nice with you or our party or our candidates. they're going to train their followers to hunt for your blood and do what it takes. you either learn to hunt them or they'll hunt you.


thats what the original author is saying. look where "the high road" got us the past 7 years.

the proof is in the pudding.

[Echo In Light]

36. You're mistaking "high road" for institutional collusion {War Machine, $ecurity}

The dems are no more "weak" than the fascists in the Whitehouse are "incompetent."

[eridani]

68. Obama shouldn't do it. That's a job for our 527s. n/t

[backscatter712]

71. Obama's got verbal jiu-jitsu.

He takes the enemy's attacks and redirects their force against them. He knows how to draw blood when he needs to.

That's what we need this November.

Yeah. Hillary, for all the howling and screaming and shrieking she's doing right now, as soon as she goes against McCain, she's gonna bend over and let herself get swiftboated.

[OnyxCollie]

95. "Power is fear and humiliation,

for without that you cannot be sure."-- O'Brien, "1984"

[readmoreoften]

76. My sticker: REPUBLICANS WHINE

Bunch of whiney bastards.

Waahh! The poor are taking all our money! I don't know where they're keeping it, cuz they sure as fuck don't have it, but I know they took it!
Waahh! I'm an oppressed Southern Baptist! They won't let me burn crosses on the lawns of gay people! Waaah!
Waaah! My marriage is so weak if we see two lesbians shopping at the supermarket we'll get a divorce! Waah!
Waaah! My daughter can't pray out loud in the middle of math class! Waaah!
Waaah! They teach evolution in schools! And reading too! Waaah!
Waaah! It's all everyone else's fault! Waaah!

[Brigid]

91. You have just won . . .

my coveted Post of the Day Award. Pointed and hilarious :rofl:

[GreenPartyVoter]

94. LOL

[riverdeep]

82. There's room for all kinds.

But people need to know what kind of weapon to bring to fight. If it's a debate situation, yelling at the opposition "yeah, well your mother liked my policies last night!" isn't going to cut it. On the other hand, sitting in a bar talking with ironworkers about the nuances of FISA isn't going to cut it either.

Conservatives have both kinds as well. They have the rabid, crazed attack dogs like Hannity or Savage or Limpballs and policy wonks like Grover Norquist.

[JHB]

88. And talk TO them, not at them

On the other hand, sitting in a bar talking with ironworkers about the nuances of FISA isn't going to cut it either.


Amend that: sitting in a bar lecturing ironworkers about the nuances of FISA and not tying it to ways it can affect people like them isn't going to cut it.

And you can replace "bar" and "ironworkers" with almost any group ata place they unwind and blow steam: stay at home moms, working moms, church choir members, veterans groups, motorcycle clubs, fishermen, red hat ladies, janitors, taxi drivers, and so on.

And Norquist might be a policy wonk compared to Hannity, but anyone who models his tactics on the Bolsheviks certainly qualifies as a "rabid, crazed attach dog" too.

[calimary]

24. I think this is spot-on.

It could fairly and reasonably be asked of John Kerry after the swiftboating job done on him - if he can't stand up to these assholes, how do we know he can stand up to bin Laden? I'd ask the same of ANY of our Dems who keep bowing and caving to bush. And you simply MUST know that any "true republi-CON" is asking the same thing. We can never win them over while they can justifiably think we're wusses.

I remember reading some quote in a newspaper article linked - from here, I'm sure - that featured a rather pugnacious female GOP operative smugly pointing out the strongest strong point was the main difference between the GOP and us Dems: "...the difference is, we fight."

And I think people just at the most basic level appreciate and admire that. And it's widely perceived that we are not that.

[Echo In Light]

27. Go beyond that: what if the fix was in and it was his role NOT to take a stand?

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. The high road is for dumbasses. n/t

[Echo In Light]

29. Bill Hicks described his set as "Chomsky with dick jokes."

"Here`s the deal. I editorialise for 40 minutes, the last 10 minutes, we pull our chutes and float down to Dick Joke Island together, ok?"

[KingOfLostSouls]

31. bill hicks should be a model on how to deal with repubs

that whole bit about bush and reagan pissing on limbaugh was classic.

republicans should always be dealt with in the most mocking and humiliating tones.


that malik shabbazz bit on hannity and colmes where he called out hannity about working with white supremacists and then "oh he can't handle the truth I'm dropping."

theres nothing wrong with treating these dickheads like the dickheads they are.

[Echo In Light]

35. Yes, but he wisely understood the dynamic, and it's very real dangers...

A group of macho chest beaters confronted him after a set once and pummeled him, breaking his leg.

Also, Hicks was there, adopting that crucial role, that vehicle for outrage, precisely because he understood he could use the medium to effect real change: had he not honestly believed it, a deeply felt belief he had as he wished for PEACE for humanity above all else, he wouldn't have kept on merely as a way to scream profanities like an angsty adolescent.

[KingOfLostSouls]

40. yes I know Hick's history very well

and he wasn't afraid to say what was on his mind despite the consequences.

and it wasn't nice and it wasn't pretty and thats the point. he didn't sit there, "I think rush is a bad man who needs to apologize. I'm so outraged."


no, he said, "RUSH LIMBAUGH MUNCHES SCAT!!!"

wishing for peace is only empty dreams without the will for action through words and deeds.


all great people in american history have been fighters, by words or by deeds.

[Echo In Light]

43. K, we're on the same page there. There's a time/place for Hicks' approach...

And otherwise. Chomsky, Zinn, Hicks, or any relatively informed citizen can totally shred the credibility of the U.S. govt without a raised voice, or resorting to screaming and name calling.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. I've observed over the decades that

voters like FEISTY and hate WIMPY. It goes beyond ideology. Average people, not political junkies, say things like, "I don't agree with Candidate X on a lot of points, but s/he doesn't take shit from anyone."

Average people feel powerless these days, and they want people in government who will fight--never mind that the government official is fighting for the wrong things. Supporting a feisty candidate makes the voters feel powerful.

The only proper response to Republican attack dogs is to unleash your attack wolves.

Gore and Kerry were absolutely wrong not to fight the contested elections with everything they had. The Congressional Dems were absolutely wrong to give in to everything Bush wanted, both with and without a majority.

[Echo In Light]

38. Collusion: dems are no more "weak" than Bushco is "incompetent."

That's the ruse. Divide and rule.

[Two Americas]

55. yes

That is what I have observed, as well.

I agree with you about Kerry and Gore, and other Democrats, failing again and again to fight.

[Hamlette]

39. It reminds me of the fall of the KKK

The KKK was above ground and active in American politics even in the North as late as the 1930s. They became prevalent again after WWI for a number of reasons. After WWII they started to become active again. A columnist (if I remember correctly) infiltrated the KKK and learned the secret code. Wizards, Grand Wizards, and other titles equally as goofy sounding.

He published all the silly crap. Somehow it became "popular" for kids to make fun of the KKK (I don't remember the details, a comic book?) and the KKK all but disappeared. The "men" in the KKK couldn't stand being made fun of!

Just what this guy is saying.

(For a more complete explanation of what happened read Arc of Justice...a great read about one of Clarence Darrow's last cases in Detroit in the 30s. It is a great snap shot of race in America.)

[Echo In Light]

44. Pop culture has poked fun at repubs/authoritarians, etc for decades

Yet because the big establishment $ is theirs, it muddies the waters, and it serves to de-fang the barbed criticism i.e. Simpsons, SNL, movies, etc

So long as the average person takes their directives from mainline thinking, the repub party will never be widely relegated to the publics perception of the clan.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

54. The klan's secret words were discovered and made fun of.

Somebody learned the secret words and broadcast them on a kid's radio show. I believe it was Superman. Therefore they destroyed the power of the KKK.

It's in the book "Freakonomics".

[live love laugh]

41. THATs funny. I bet if this was an actual sticker, we'd see a lot fewer big trucks. n/t

[KG]

42. 'There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers'

true genius.

[Norrin Radd]

45. Be like water.

Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

~Bruce Lee

[cliffordu]

48. I tell them I spent 50 bucks on gas last year and less so far this year.

When they give me the blank stare with the question mark buried inside I tell them that after 9/11 I decided not to give the Saudis or the oil companies ONE MORE FUCKING DIME than I had to, so I killed my car and went to the bicycle full time. I tell them that we cannot be completely free of the middle east until we get their hands out of our pants.

I tell them the ONLY reason we are there is for the oil and that if we could send our TROOPS to fight and die over there for the oil, the best way to SUPPORT THE TROOPS is to get off my ass and stop using so much oil, and eliminate the need.

I ask them if they've read anything about the steel and rubber drives during WWII and ask them why we don't have to ration anything. If this is a war for our very existence, why aren't we asked to sacrifice anything??

I ASK THEM WHY CONSERVATIVES DON'T KNOW HOW TO CONSERVE ANYTHING.....

I do a lot of gesturing, there is a lot of anger about this stuff with me......anyway, after I'm about here in 'the speech' people look like their view of reality is being seriously molested, and so I leave them with this:

(adjusted for actual, disgusting numbers)
4000 dead and gas is at 4 bucks a gallon. The oil companies made RECORD profits last year.

What are you going to do when it hits 7 bucks a gallon??

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. To put this in the pansy academic terms... FRAME THE FUCKING MESSAGE

in a way that them small dicked SUV drivers will understand. They are suckers... and they know it!

Oh and that felt good

[mdmc]

53. yes

[riverdeep]

83. I hear you.

Americans don't like pansy. But what scares me, being the nuance junky I am, is the undercurrent of anti-intellectualism and macho chest beating this framing feeds into and legitimizes. But, ultimately I'm a pragmatist. This is what our country is. A nation of semi-illiterate dullards who think only in terms of sports metaphors. So that's how we have to fight. I don't like it, but there it is.

[mdmc]

52. A pretty good read - although I approved of Carter's caution regarding Iran

Has anyone read "Pleasant Hell" by the author of this piece?

I like the way he writes.

Thanks for the OP.

[Two Americas]

56. more than just not fighting

It is not merely a matter of Democrats being unwilling to fight, there also is a problem with what we are fighting for.

Shaming people into riding bicycles??

Ridiculing them for the vehicles they drive??

Not only are our methods absurd, so are our causes. Ridiculing someone over the truck they drive has nothing to do with fighting the right wingers. It is about personal self-expression, it is about being able to feel tough, not about being tough.

I think that liberalism has become all about self-actualization and pseudo-spiritual personal values. That is inherently aristocratic and condescending, as well as complementing and supporting libertarianism quite well. I don't think we can separate the two out - the self-absorbed focus on personal values and lifestyle choices and utter wimpiness against the right wing. The two are mutually supporting and feed off of one another.

The focus on "values" distracts from the proper concern of politics - power and economics. Liberalism is controlled and dominated by people who do not have much at stake personally, who will be just fine personally regardless of what the right wingers do. There is therefore no urgency, no sense of crisis, no back-to-the-wall desperation. Those who are persecuted and abused and at great personal risk are always told to be patient and "at least we are better than the Republicans."

It is not merely the wimpiness of the Democrats that the public rejects, it is more importantly the moral depravity that underlies the wimpiness.

[fascisthunter]

57. Thank You.... (nt)

[hyphenate]

59. I've had two that I'm making

"I dare to challenge the status quo"
and
"swaggering doesn't equal courage"

[hvn_nbr_2]

62. If someone won't defend himself, how can we think he'll defend us?

That's what I've believed for a long time that lots of people think, and with some justification. One of the primary jobs of a president is to be our chief defender.

[texasleo]

70. The PC left never learned how to fight

sadly.

[Vogon_Glory]

80. Another factor

The pc left has also been hampered by the fact that many of them came of age during the long Democratic ascendancy. Many of them grew up during a time when Democratic policies were taken as givens, and that acted as if most of the Great Society programs enacted during the 1960's were accepted by all except for Ronald Reagan and a few backwoods zanies. They were used to having sympathetic people in power and couldn't concieve of the possibility of having to actually fight the good fight.

[Vogon_Glory]

81. The Flurry With The Fringe On The Top

One of my pet nicknames for today's Republican Party is that it's the flurry with the fringe on the top.

[backscatter712]

72. Ridicule and mockery are powerful weapons. USE THEM!

I know, that sort of thing isn't accepted in polite company. To hell with polite company.

Call Bush a brain-damaged, bullying dry-drunk psychopathic chimp. Go ahead. He's earned it.

I certainly let them have it with both barrels. Same thing goes when I'm in GD-P and bashing Hillary. I make no apologies. I won't get misogynistic, but I'll make no apologies for flat out calling her a pathological liar.

Ridicule sticks. Mockery sticks. The GOP know this - that's why the half of Rush Limbaugh that isn't angry ranting is constant ridicule.

[Vogon_Glory]

77. The Bible Also Has Its Uses...

The Bible can be a surprisingly useful tool for progressives arguing with Rethug propagandists. I've found that the Book of Proverbs has some truly scathing things to say about the name-calling and character-assasination that Rethugs like to use, as well equally scathing things to say about the sorts of people who use such tactics.

While I doubt that quoting from the Bible will change the thinking of the person you're arguing with, it does have another effect. If you can get other parts of your audience to think that a Rethug cyber-bully isn't as godly and righteous as he or she purports to be, you can not only hearten long-suffering progressives, but you might also convince at least some of the devout that some of their right-wing playmates are behaving badly and that they might be able to vote Democratic in good conscience.

Even inspiring some of the pious to sit on the sidelines instead of automatically voting GOP would be a victory for those of us living in the Bible Belt.

[Brigid]

92. When I started really studying the Bible . . .

I turned hard left. Too many others read it and turn hard right. Fascinating how people can read something and get completely different interpretations of it.

[sendero]

78. I've been saying this..

... since my first post here in 2002. You can't fight bullies with pillows.

[JohnnyCougar]

85. That's great.

I've been doing this for years. It's so easy to turn conservative "logic" and the myths that they believe in into knots. The best thing to do is to use their own logic against them and create a hypothetical scenario created by conservative logic that would result in a horrible situation. Whenever they talk about throwing everyone in jail, talk about how they must want to raise taxes to pay for all those people in prison. Whenever they advocate war, talk about doubling taxes. Whenever they talk about cutting taxes, talk about the need to raise taxes for war with Iran, Syria and Venezuela that are on our horizon, and the fact that corporations effectively pay about a quarter of the taxes they did 50 years ago and that all of that burden that was formerly on corporations has now been put on the middle and upper middle class. And whenever they ask to cut all taxes on business, bring up a scenario about Chinese businessmen coming over here and starting a business that takes business away from American companies, triples in value, and profits at the expense of everyday American workers. In other words use their own logic to bring up scenarios in which their self defined "enemies" benefit at the expense of patriotic Americans. There's plenty of examples.

It gives them conniption fits. And use the word "terrorism" for anything that threatens any government, even a government unfavorable to conservatives. And use the phrase "hating freedom" for anything that a government of their favor does to restrict any freedom.

It really is a bullying contest. You just have to out smart-alek them, and they fly into a rage. Conservatives are notoriously bad at controlling their emotions.

[riverdeep]

87. Woody Allen had a quote,

"No matter how cynical you get, you can never keep up."

People seriously considering this route should understand the full nature of what they're going into. Do you think you can keep up with the maliciousness that's built into the very DNA of modern Republicans? Maliciousness comes very easily for them. They don't struggle with moral questions like 'is this right'. They think only in terms of 'will this further my immediate agenda?'

They think nothing of jamming phone lines with robocalls purporting to come from their opponents. They think nothing of wiping voters off the rolls or making calls telling them they can no longer vote. They think nothing of condemning Max Cleland as a coward. They think nothing of breaking into Watergate. They think nothing of torturing 'enemy combatants' even though it puts their own troops in jeopardy down the line. Their forebearers literally killed Union members. Their modern descendants have surrogates torture natives abroad to comply with business interests. And on and on. All the while in public railing against the opponent as the one being unfair and immoral. This is what they are and it comes as naturally as a labrador going for his first swim.

In my opinion, we cannot be exactly like them. It's not our nature, nor does it further our own interests in the long run. But, we do need to fight hard, and yes, sometimes underhanded. My model for doing so, Saul Alinsky.

http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/8925/alinsky.htm

There's a reason so many right wingers hate and fear Alinsky (the site above is hostile)- it works. And that scares the shit out of them.

[October]

93. It not our nature?

Have you read some of the threads here lately?

It seems to suit a lot of people here at DU to attack other Dems. I seriously feel like I'm in Freeperville with some of these ugly posts.

They need to redirect this hatred, that's all -- but they are definitely practicing hate on our own.

[riverdeep]

97. It gets vicous here, yeah.

But compare that to the pure, black evil that happens on right wing forums. They regularly talk about killing masses of people without batting an eye. Hatred is the first place they go. How many of us think torturing and killing is an acceptable practice if it gets us what we want, or think we want?

Most right wingers adore violence. Even Michael Medved, the movie critic who rails against Hollywood for destroying (his particular) cultural values, has no problem with violent movies. I think this is telling.

We can't compete with that by playing the same game as they are, we'll get beat every time. Or maybe even worse- what if we win?

[Zookeeper]

89. I've been saying this for years. The Rethuglicans aren't going

to respect us or leave the darkside when we try to be less "partisan." They are bullies. You don't try to reason with a bully; you get in his/her face until they back off.

I was embarrassed when Kerry caved so quickly in 'O4. It's hard to argue that Democrats can be tough on national security when we continually roll over whenever the Rethugs raise their voices.

[vinylsolution]

90. Humili-nation

Here's another great bumper sticker that calls out the wingnuts....

[Bigmack]

96. Lately, I've tried just asking simple questions...

"If we spend half a trillion a year - every year - on the military and god knows how much on intelligence, how come a bunch of guys with box cutters were able to damage this country on 9-11?"

Who's going to pay for the war? It's not on the budgets?

What would a "win" in Iraq look like? At what point - what year - would you be willing to admit we haven't "won"?

If Iraq is worth 4000 US dead and 30,000 wounded... why wouldn't it be worth 50,000, or 100,000? How many dead Americans is too many?

What has Bush done that has worked? The economy? The war?

They answer with stock phrases, and I just ask the question again.

Pisses them off.

[cynatnite]

98. Nope, I won't...

I'm not a mean person and I won't lower myself to those standards. I'm better than that and the last thing I want to be is like them.

If anyone wants to be like them, more power to them, but I refuse to be. When I look in the mirror I want to be able to do it without hating myself.

Watching 'The Good Shepard' with Matt Damon. They just waterboarded a guy. That's enough for me to know I DO NOT want to be like them.

[RepublicanElephant]

100. i used to think that way.

but then i started seeing these right-wingers for the threat they are to our democracy.

i don't want liberals to "play nice" while the fascists are trying to take over.

i can't imagine a football coach telling his team to "play nice".

and now we're facing something far more serious than a game.