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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:06 PM
Original message
Conservatism Is Dying
Conservatism Is Dying

Modern conservatism is dying. Theres still an election to be held, but conservatism as weve known it since Ronald Reagan is failingground down in the desert of Iraq, drowned in the floods of Hurricane Katrina, foreclosed by the housing crisis and poisoned by toys imported from China.

The American people are figuring this out. While conservatives repeat their time-worn sloganssmall government, low taxes, high securitythe American people are living the consequences.

Weve seen eight years of a conservative presidency, six years overlapping with a conservative Congress, and 30 years of broadly conservative ideology. Now reality is showing how the values embodied in those slogans have been betrayed.

Full Article
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kenneth Galbraith(sp?) said it best
Conservatism is nothing but a moral justification for selfishness.
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Prefer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. William F Buckley is keeping it alive
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tachyon Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Unfortunately for him it couldn't return the favor
;-)
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
49. That deserves a DUzy award
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Narkos Donating Member (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh, I beg to differ
Conservatism and the psychology that drives is far from dying. It may be unpopular, but if there's one thing we can count on, it is the ability of conservatism to remain a potent force in the American psyche. I'm sure people thought that conservatism was done when the New Deal became an uncontested success story, but these guys have are too organized, are too passionate, and simply have too much money to count them out. Unfortunately we will have to contend with conservatism for a long time, even when it's clear that their ideas are a failure. The solution is to never get complacent, change the frames with which they use to misinform the American public, and remain on the offense indefinitely. We handed them too many easy victories, we simply can't afford to do that again.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
41. Amen.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
54. True. The propaganda effort has failed, but the motivations remain in an oligarchy/phony democracy
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angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. It may be dying as a political movement
But greed and selfishness will be with us always. As long as corporate greed and capitalist dogma are the sole motivating factors in politics these people will continue to dominate our country. No matter what political party they allow us to have in power.
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femmocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have waited for 24 years for the pendulum to swing back.
The article is well worth reading.

K & R
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. I've yet to figure out what the conservatives are conserving
other than compassion, which they conserve for themselves alone.
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. and it's dying an ugly death....

FINALLY
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. idk, my university is packed with conservatives. nt
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Where is your university? Mine is too, it's embarassing.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:09 PM by Hissyspit
The amount of willful ignorance.
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
64. SUNY Oswego
It disgusts me, really.

Dunno why I came up here :p

Bunch of chicken hawks. Don't want taxes. Support the war that costs us billions.
Yeah, they're a really bright bunch. :sarcasm:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Universities in the early 70s were packed with lefties.
Don't take it too seriously. The early 70s kids got squashed by their elders who were appalled at the drug scene and the protests and what they saw as the anti Americanism of spoiled youth.

These kids will be dismissed as a bunch of scared little rabbits who don't know what they're talking about.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. Conservatism is built on the idea that if you work hard, and work even harder
You will make lots of money. Sure, being successful requires time and energy. Lots of people work hard every day, and the most they can look forward to is becoming grocery baggers after they retire to supplement their Social Security checks.

The problem is, that when Democrats get back in office, and try enforce some spending discipline and raise taxes, all the blame will fall on Democrats, while retirees eat cat food.


It takes a colossal fuckup like Bush, hopefully, to change the entire thinking process of this country. Because if we don't reevaluate everything in front of it, after the crash, then we're really done.

We can survive this recession. Our "CEO" class of people need to have their salaries knocked down by 90% and that money needs to go right back into the company. Let everyone eat at least a slice of cake. Put those extra millions back into US companies that pay these assholes, such as paying the hourly workers one dollar an hour more, so they'll have more to spend. Pay them just a little bit more of your share, you greedy fucking bastards, and they'll support your mansions - JUST AS LONG as they have a place to live and raise their own family.


It's just that easy. It's been said that Obama is lucky to be who he is. I wish I were him, and the likely candidate for Pres. But I'm not. I'm far too logical. See Kucinich. My first choice.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. We could be at the point where the Republican Party could be marginalized
or actually become a fringe political party. Instead we have the vitriolic, pouty Obama/Clinton supporters pissing match where the losers claim they will not vote for the Democratic winner, enhancing the chances of a McCain victory. Then we will be left with a Republican president who can set the agenda and keep us in eternal warfare with unlimited billion$ for bombs and bullets, but not healthcare or education and we will have a Democratic majority in Congress that is not big enough to override a presidential veto. In the meantime we allow Republicanism/conservatism to reconsolidate and enhance their power even when it is not in the self interest of millions who continue to vote for them.

Our children will look back on us (Democrats) and the opportunity we have now and ask, "What in the hell were you people thinking?"
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think we are at a state where the definitions are being changed altogether.
The Reagan conservatism is withering because of its obvious failure to achieve its goals, but it is also failing as the demographics of this nation are changing. Reaganism was based on the dominance (number-wise) of white protestant males and a few misguided females over all other single groups, so that socially it did not have to worry about fighting racism or sexism. It embraced both, and embraced all forms of bigotry against people not of the dominant group--male, white, non-gay, protestant or at least Christian, etc.

That can no longer win, as even W had begun to accept, with his early attempts to win black and Latino/a voters by appointing Rice, Powell, Gonzales, etc. Still, W's changes were superficial appointments of token minorities acceptable to the traditional Republican base. Honestly, I give him credit for that, because he did break down a few barriers. Every time one of the hurdles is crossed, we no longer have to fight the battle again. Can a black quarterback succeed? Warren Moon answered that. Can a black quarterback win the Super Bowl? Doug Williams. Can a black general rise to the highest post in the military and be followed by white subordinates? Colin Powell. The questions themselves are stupid, but many people still ask them until they are answered, and once answered, the question goes away. In a small way, Bush, not really intentionally, helped Obama by wiping away a few more questions about race and leadership in the minds of the most hesitant whites in America. Bush didn't do much, and his actions on the economy and Katrina and his wars and a host of other arenas certainly were destructive to the cause of equality. But he did do something. That's better than Reagan. Bush overall, though, followed Reagan's brand of conservatism.

That just won't work anymore. In terms of wealth and numbers, white males are not as clearly dominant anymore. So conservatives will have to change their basic assumptions on society to have a chance of winning, or having anyone listen to their message.

Liberals, though, are having to change, too. Or at least, the Democratic Party will have to. The old Democratic Party and the old liberal ideology worked on the assumption that non-whites had to be saved. They had to be pulled up to equal with whites. Past travesties had to be overcome, forcibly. Segregation had to be ended, education had to be universal, discrimination in housing and the workplace had to be destroyed. Now, with white power becoming weaker, and with the hardest edges of blatant, government-enforced racism being weakened (we still need major prison/law enforcement reform, though), the battles are changing. It's now more of a question of how to integrate than how to desegregate. And white arrogance has to yield to the realization that whites no longer have to save non-whites, but now have to include them, even consider them as superiors in many situations. Liberalism on social issues also is changing, as our current primary proves.

In the past liberals wanted to see a black president, or a female president, but there was always an attitude that we would have to sort of help them out, elevate them, help them get elected. You know, white man's burden stuff. Now we have Obama and Clinton, both of whom kicked in the political door and said "Screw that, I'm not waiting for you to appoint me, I'm just taking the job." Liberalism isn't just for white people anymore. (It never was, but you see what I mean, I hope).

With the changing social conditions, other lines will be redrawn. African Americans have for decades voted almost exclusively Democrat, and and white liberals have made the mistaken assumption that this meant blacks were more liberal than whites, or that most African Americans were liberals, even progressives, at heart. Obviously this isn't true--African Americans have ideologies as diverse as white folk, but the larger issues of inclusion and equality made them vote with the Dems, even when the Dems moved too slowly and too incompletely. Now, though, that's changing. If Obama wins, it will be because black voters put him in office, and white Democrats went along for the ride. African American ideological diversity (and I haven't even gotten into Latino/a diversity and its impact on the party) may start to change the party from within, moving the party more to the center or even the right on some issues, while moving it to the left on many social issues.

Anyway, you get the idea of what I'm saying. Both parties are going to shift, and not just to the left or right. Some issues will realign, so that both parties shift to the right on some and the left on others, and the whole meaning of right and left will realign. It's happening now, and it's happening fast. Don't just look at Clinton and Obama, look at Ron Paul. Here's a right wing conservative against all forms of government spending. This causes him to oppose aid to Katrina victims--a conservative view--and to vehemently oppose the Iraqi war--a very progressive view.

The Republicans chose McCain over the religiously conservative Huckabee and the economically conservative Romney and the diplomatically conservative Giuliani. McCain is a moderate--not moderate enough for our tastes, of course, but for the Republican Party, he is. He had to make some conservative promises, of course, but he's not an extremist on most Republican issue--he just leans to the right, without rushing against the wall. Reaganism is dead, in that regard.

We are going to choose Obama or Clinton. Neither is a true leftist, both are basically moderates. We have two moderates leaning left battling to face a moderate leaning right. The extremes are being ignored because the extremes do not have clear enough identities to dominate an election, or to vote as a significant block. The extremes don't work anymore, for either party. That won't last, it just means those on the left and the right will have to reevaluate, and discover what they still agree on. But for now we are in a drastic ideological shift, reminiscent of the 30s or the 60s, when changing realities wiped away entrenched ideologies. Some of the ideologies never changed, but many shifted. It's why some people say that the parties switched from liberal to conservative and vice versa.

I know no one's still reading. :) I just like to babble. Probably wrong, as usual.

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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I read it.
Makes sense to me. Thanks for the post.
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Narkos Donating Member (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. What is that a picture of by the way?
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. It's a pic of O'Brien and Winston Smith from "1984".
Unless you were referring to my avatar, which I stole from Godflesh.

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Dead to me!
:applause:
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. Noooooooo!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. bwwwaa hahahah haha ha
:rofl: again!
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. On the contrary!
I read every word. Very well thought out. Very well stated. Very well written.

Well done!

*doffs hat*

:hi:

:toast:
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. p.s. I wish I could rec a reply :) n/t
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. I see it as two candidates who lean to the right
and one who is close to the far right. The left as I knew it decades ago no longer exists in American politics (except in "fringe" candidates like Kucinich, who also states that there is only one party in DC).
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
53. Read every word. For what it's worth, I thought it excellent.
:thumbsup:
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TML Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. Cool
As cold as it sounds, it's time to kick them while they're down because that's what they did to us. No, don't scream that this is not what we do. If you want to survive, you give as good as you get. We've taken a lot during the past eight years and it's time to feel charitable and give back. :evilgrin:
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yorgatron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. kick'em while they're down!
i like THAT idea.
ther only time we should reach across the aisle is to smack somebody! :grr: :mad:
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. *cackle*
That literally made me laugh out loud. }(
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. Actually conservatism is already dead, it died the day Reagan took power
Since then conservatism has been replaced with another ideology called fascism.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. I am cautiously optimistic
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:27 PM by Juche
I want modern conservatism to die a humiliating, thrashing death so it can't screw up my country anymore and if at all possible see its leaders put in prison for the crimes they have committed, but I am not 100% convinced of it yet.

As other poster(s) have said, america is becoming too multicultural to be reagan conservative anymore. The contemporary movement conservatives have managed to alienate and piss off

black people
latinos
people under 30
college educated women
poor and working class people
non-christians
GLBTs
moderates

They don't realize that bigotry against anyone who isn't an upper middle class WASP evangelical doesn't work if more than 51% of the public doesn't consist of WASPs. Maybe in the 60s when latinos barely existed, black people didn't vote and everyone was christian. But if you look at voter demographics almost every race & religion that isn't WASP votes democrat at this point.

I have read a variety of interesting things over the years about the (hopeful) death of conservatism

1. Over half of republicans are now over 55 (ie older people who are set in their ways), which means that once they hit their 60s and start collecting tens of thousands a year in medicare & SS they may tone down their conservatism

2. The GOP may have lost an entire generation of voters. From 1996-2002 young people voted slightly liberal, by 2004 they gave liberals a 10% margin, by 2006 it was a 22% margin (it is even a 50 point margin in new england for people born after 1977, they vote dem 3-1 over the GOP). So this entire generation taht makes up 1/4 of the electorate (36% by the middle of the next decade) may never view conservatism well.


So hopefully, by 2015 or so, many of the republicans will be in retirement and will tone down their 'welfare is evil' schtick, and at the same time a generation of young voters will be voting liberal. Plus liberals are so much stronger on the issues (taxes, economy, energy, justice, education).

But never underestimate how easy it is to mislead voters. "republicans will cut my taxes" is something I hear alot even though when pressed none of the GOP supporters I know can provide any evidence that this is true, that they understand how big the budget is, what the money is spent on, or how much dems will cut their (middle class) taxes. So as long as the electorate is misinformed conservatism will persist.
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. I live in northern california, so my observation may only represent a skewed demographic...
but the kids in my CSU courses express overwhelmingly moderate/left positions, with much more emphasis upon the left. An off-the-cuff (and definitely unscientific) guess at the ratio would be about 80/20. Almost all of them are politically awake (in the sense that they actually hold opinions about political issues) and give the impression of being anxious to vote this election cycle (it will be the first time for most of them).

Experiencing a course on "The American Creed," which examines the evolution and differing strands of what is interpreted as "Americanism," is certainly an eye-opener with these younger people, as it gives some insight into what THEY are willing to say they think it means to be an American today.
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I know my daughter is ...
anxious to vote (this'll be her first time)

w00t!

Get out & vote you young peeps! :bounce:
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. "republicans will cut my taxes"
then they'll tax and borrow and rack up huge interest

dumbasses

and they'll :nuke: countries that don't pose a threat to us

:mad:
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. I don't get it either
I have tried explaining how Obama is proposing a 4k/yr tax credit for college, a 1k/yr tax cut for middle class families and investing in energy and healthcare technology that will save middle class families several thousand dollars a year on energy and healthcare. But they still think a token $30/month (while millionaires get 100k tax cuts) under a republican means their taxes are lower.
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. *shrug* *brow furrows* I don't get it either n/t
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. It was already dead, I told you guys, ZOMBIES!!11!!! eom
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
28. Nonsense. It will always be undead.
!!
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. But it doesn't hurt to be at least *cautiously* optimistic, does it?
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:47 PM by LaStrega
I mean, a girl can dream, can't she?

*eyes glaze over*

:hi:


(on edit: added 'at least')
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OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
30. Hmmmmmm
I still think many Americans want small government and low taxes. I think many Americans still believe truisms -- not truths about government (ex: "We could balance the budget if we could just end welfare and tell those illegals to go back to Mexico." "If we had national healthcare, it would work as well as Medicaire and have paperwork as complicated as the IRS" "If we just got some leaders with some common business sense, and get those liberals the Hell out of Washington, we could make this right." "If Liberals are elected, all they'll do is raise our taxes and take our guns").

...and, I think there is a group that we confuse with conservatives who are more aptly described as theocrats. They want to make the US into the Christian equivalent of Iran.

I think both of these groups are alive in well...

BUT.. I also think there a lot of people who are conservatives, who truly subscribe to the principles espoused by people like Goldwater, who see that the current Republican party is infected. The current Republican party has become too beholden to narrow big corporation interests, it has become too arrogant, and it has become too incompetent. Hillary Clinton has a much better chance of balancing a budget than John McCain -- and I think a lot of them know it.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
31. And it's taking us (U.S.) down with it. We're an empire in decline.
I predict that within fifty years, we'll see a rash of secession movements across the nation. Texas and the South will go again (this time, fucking LET them!), New England may decide to break off into their own country. There are parts of me that would like to see the the sovereign nation of Cascadia become fact as well as fantasy. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_%28independence_m... )

We're too big, too unwieldy, too much at the mercy of a tiny group of ultra-wealthy, ultra-powerful monsters to remain what we spent 230 years becoming. There is too much hate, too much lurching after a vision of "America" that is fifty years out of date and never really existed in the first place.

South Carolina wants to be a haven for believers in a "Ten Commandments" government. Let them go.

Texas wants to return to a mythical shoot-em-up cowboy daydream of white Protestant supremacy. Let them go.

Kansas wants to forbid the teaching of knowledge in their schools. Let them go.

Florida wants to bulldoze flat its breathtaking natural wonders and replace them with luxury condos. Let them go.

Indiana doesn't seem to care that it is a morass of insipid, white-bread provincialism. Let them go.

Montana seems to welcome every raging nutball with a chip on his shoulder, a gun in his hands, and a desire in his tiny, underdeveloped heart for starting a "Just Me" township. Let them go.

Let them all go. A Balkanized America won't be any better than a United States. But how could it be any worse? I mean, look around at what we've become...

God! I FOUGHT for this country! I've believed in it. Thought we were getting better all the time. What has happened??????
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #31
56. America will definitely break apart at some point.
The history of such divisions tends to be bloody (India/Pakistan, anyone?). How do we think we will avoid a massacre?

Once America no longer stretches alone, "coast to coast", we will have lost our key geographical advantage. Significant decline will inevitably follow.

I am so glad I am 58 today instead of 14! We had the Beatles. I don't even want to think about the future today's kids will grow up through.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. I won't be happy till they're burying it six feet under. n/t
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Yup. R.I.P.
On second thought ... no rest no peace. Just die!
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
39. People are starting to see through the veil that clouded our brains
It has taken long enough. We have been in a dark era since around 1980, maybe even 1976 when they became super active. I think even their supporters are seeing as a bankrupt philosophy. It has and is a ploy to keep rich people rich at the expense of the rest of us. It has gotten so bold that they no longer care about selling the rest of us down the river to keep getting richer and their friends richer. I look at it in mostly economic terms. We have had to break through with those blue dog dems who switched sides over the last 25 years or so. I think they now see it for what I mentioned above. Our country has become like a giant pyramid scheme that was bound to collapse. Well now its happening, and the fallout will be huge. I think we are in for some bad times ahead before we turn things around.

The right spent so much time trashing Europe and now we can clearly see that the EU is doing so so so much better in every way then we have been doing. Their higher tax rates help finance a system that mostly works for its people. Here, the system seems and feels to actually work against people. The turnaround in my view was Hurricane Katrina. It opened the eyes of many people for the first time that our government has been gutted so its no longer effective. Republicans fail to finance gov and then rail against it when it does not perform, the perfect self fulfilling prophecy.
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. "I think we are in for some bad times ahead before we turn things around."
A friend of mine is an economical analyst, he told me yesterday that he predicts the first quarter of '09 will show a bit of improvement, then the bottom will drop out and we'll be cast into the worst recession seen in his or my lifetime. :scared:

If such is the case, there's no way I'll make it through. :cry:
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. There's never been an economic crisis we haven't survived.
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. Bless your heart for that! The glass is half-full dammit!
Unfortunately, I'm afraid *I* won't survive the impending economic crisis. :(

Gods I'm 42 and if this all comes to pass, I'll be living with my mother.

I mean, she's a great gal, and great fun ... but how fucking sucky is that?! Moving in with yer mum at 42 freaking years old?!
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
44. Kick!
I just cross-promoted you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

You present a manifesto outlining the problem in detail. Above is a link to an article that describes what we can do to fix that many-headed problem, even though it will be a colossally big and long-running job.
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Thanks!
:yourock:

:hi:

:toast:
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
46. Conservatives hate freedom.............n/t
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. conservatives = the new terrorists i.e. they hate our freedom n/t
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
47. The Good Old USA
Where the greedy take from the needy!
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
48. Conservatism has Morphed into Fascism
Conservatism as a label worked well for them up until now.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #48
55. Exactly. That's what the term is, an Orwellian semantic-disguise for the obvious
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
59. hunt 'em down ... I'll pay ya ... barter style even (haven't got two nickels to rub together) n/t
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
51. Actually, conservatism might be poised for a renaissance.
Bush et al aren't conservatives in any meaningful sense of the word. They're far-right extremists. Barry Goldwater was a conservative; next to today's so-called 'conservatives' he comes off looking like a leftist.
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. agreed ...
as does McPain ... hence the Coulter suedo-endorsing the white lady in his stead.

(note: it's not about sex, it's not about race, it's about getting a Dem in teh WH m'kay?)
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
52. Thank God for that...
maybe we can get back to the old conservatism of Goldwater (minus the racism). It's high time that republicans take their party back from the crazy jesus freaks who have hijacked it.
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
57. We need to drive a wooden stake through the heart of Movement Conservativism
NOW is the perfect time. I don't see it happening.
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. ...
:-(

:hurts:


:banghead:


:mad:


:cry:


I've decided I'm only going to speak via emoticons today. Fuck everybody at work ... they can :argh: for all I care.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
62. I think the Republican Party after this will be completely
destroyed
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. Here's hoping! n/t
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