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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:44 PM
Original message
A Tail of Two Prostitutes
It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. So the story goes. Elliot Spitzer and "Kristen" had their good times, and now they are havin their worst. The worst, in this case, are the result of media glare, however, and not the seemingly "usual" result of their mutual behavior.

And the mutually consenting nature of their behavior is a boiler plate for a renewed discussion on the legality of prostitution.

First, I must say, I am no fan of prostitution. It's not that I judge prostitutes. Or johns. It's that I don't think it's the best relationship for anyone involved, directly or indirectly. Prostitution hurts families, wives, husbands, girlfriends, boyfriends, children...

But the argument that it hurts neighborhoods and burdens law enforcement is merely a function of the illegality of the act.

I wholly dismiss the verbose feminist argument that prostitution hurts women as a whole. The prostitute is a willing party, acting entirely for her own economic advantage. As in the case of Kristen, prostitutes sell their wares because they gain an economic advanage by so doing; they simply make more money by selling sex than they would by flipping burgers, or by any other job for which they might be qualified. Otherwise, they wouldn't do it.

I wholly dismiss the Bronze Age, biblical admonition that men who buy sex offend God. I think they offend their wives, but God does not judge the john any more than he judges the alcoholic: as merely a sick person.

And that's the way I see it. Alcohol is legal because we found out, as a culture, that illegalisation was not a solution to willing, non-victimising, behavior. That which does not involve theft of property or violence unto a person (or sometimes an animal) is generally a "victimless crime". These so-called crimes need to be decriminalised. Prostitution needs to be legal, albeit regulated and contained.

I'm not saying Elliot Spitzer is innocent; he is not. Spitzer's hypocrisy, and his betrayal of the peoples' trust is cause enough for his resignation; however, he should not be prosecuted, because prosecution of an act, regardless of the legal status of the act, is unconscionable in the case of two mutually consenting adults engaging in an act that neither perpetrates violence against another, nor steals property from another.

I will bet there are holes in my argument as stated. To give credence to this subject would surely entail a book-length post. But there are two tails in this story, two asses in slings, and neither need be as such. Elliot Spitzer sold his career for a piece of ass, and Kristen unwittingly sold her anonymity. But both made their choices, without the involvement of anyone else, and the legal system needs to stay out of it.

That doesn't mean the voters don't have a say, though. But that's a moot point now. For the future, however, we need to legalise prostitution, because illegalising the behavior of two mutually consenting adults that does not violate the rights of another is, morally and ethically, not the business of government.
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. You might want to check your spelling
Tail vs Tale changes the whole meaning.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Well
We are talking about a piece of ass, aren't we?
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. .........
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Perfect example of the ubiquity of sexism. They are women, human beings. Not "pieces of ass." A piece of ass is a rump roast.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I Believe You Misunderstood Me
And last I looked, men have them, too.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. How did I misunderstand?
And when was the last time you heard a man called a piece of ass? How on earth does the statement that "men have them, too" even apply? You didn't say they have asses. You said they were asses.
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. actually, to be fair,
I heard some of my female peers on the bus refer to a guy as a "fine piece of ass".

I'd say Crisco's comment was more objectifying than sexist, which hardly means it is not inappropriate.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Please excuse the hammy homonym
but that's what it is. :D
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. It's a pun he gets to near the end of the post. NT
NT
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. As Emily Latella would say:
Nevermind. Shoulda read the whole thing.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nevada native here--
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 05:06 PM by JohnnyLib2
The next county over, 25 miles, had a legal brothel as I grew up. We passed it on the way to Reno, which was then the medical/college/shopping center.

Brothels are legal in the home county now, but none are currently open.

There are stories I could tell--but the Mormon, Catholic, Baptist and many other congregations thrive and coexist with the legalization. So do the bars and other gambling establishments. So did law enforcement, which monitored, and the public health center, which did regular health inspections. (It was not uncommon for matrons to giggle about sitting in the clinic or at the beauty parlor when "the girls" came in.)

I can't think of a single person all these years who was genuinely harmed by
the brothels. None.

It was certainly an eye opener to move to other areas of the U.S.....
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thanks n/t
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. An observation and a question about Nevada here
I'm from a neighboring state, and I find Nevada endlessly fascinating. The moment I cross the border, everything is different; gambling, prostitution, bright lights and unlimited advertising, and a sense that whether you're Mormon, right-wing gun nut, liberal nature lover, atheist, Democrat or Burning Manner, you are all treated the same. And that's how it should be.

As a Nevadan, what's your take on this? In some ways, isn't the Nevada experience a microcosm of what America should be? Not that it's perfect, you know.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Been gone many years but have family and visit often.

Beyond that--there still seems to be more genuine openness and tendency to simply coexist than I've found elsewhere (Northeast and now Southeast). It attracts the adventurous. I suspect Alaska has some of the same characteristics and probably other parts of the west. Low population may be a factor. And, there is the simple fact of growing up with the bright lights, red lights and lit up slot machines that make it seem commonplace.

I get a big kick out of hearing Kentuckians, especially Southern Baptists, react to what they find in Las Vegas......LOL.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. i lived there quite a while too. forgot the other side. the addictions, the heartaches
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:41 PM by seabeyond
the loneliness, the abandonment....broken people, broken lives.

i have lived in different places. i was young adult, single in reno nevada. a beautiful place. and a terrific place to be young, adult and single. i was a waitress and made 6 buck an hour along with tons of tips. the money flowed. 4 hours a day for 4/5 days and i had more than enough to live. the gambling, the drugs, the booze. 24 hours of play... it was grand

i also had to move out of the state to slow down, survive. get healthy. and away from it all.

and as much as i love the beauty of the area i would NEVER raise children there.

i appreciate the time i lived and played in nevada. and i am thankful for having gotten out.

btw:... it is not only me talking about addiction, heartache, abandonment..... living there i saw my share of older, mature adults, alone, with their gambling addictions and other addictions.

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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. yup, all true.

You can see it in every casino. At the same time, I've found similar things in gigantic apartments buildings in the Bronx, Florida, etc. Ware housing, if you will.

My main exposure was to small (cow) town life, a much different environment. I hope some of that is still around!

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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Hey, thanks
That's another point of view that needs to be made, and you said it well.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. Sooo... an aspiring singer who sells her anonymity is a bad thing? n/t
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. In Minnesota, Jesse Ventura (I) was elected governor after promising...
...to legalize prostitution and pot.

However, immediately after the election, he retracted his promise, and did nothing about those issues.

He served one term and didn't run for re-election.

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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. When I see articles indicating the majority of those involved with
prostitution were sexually abused as children and/or are currently addicted to drugs, I question how "willing" they are to be prostitutes.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Doubtless many do have troubled histories.

On the other hand, wouldn't it be better to give such a story, either to a reporter or to your mother, rather than saying you enjoy servicing men?

Age old question, IMO.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Enjoy? Hell, it's just a job.
Contempt, power trips or pity is what I've gleaned from my conversations with the pros...
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