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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:20 AM
Original message
I've about had it around here...
I was the victim of one of the most vituperative posts ever from a veteran well-known poster here for absolutely no reason at all whatsoever. And I mean none. I made a sarcastic reference to the irony of having CNN as the victim of a natural weather disaster by referencing God, saying that (S)he plays strange tricks on people. The poster gave me the 'benefit of the doubt' as it were (thanks a lot), and then went on to use a profanity to impugn my intelligence if the intent of the statement were, in fact, not ironical.

Two things:

1. Any reading of the post clearly showed that it was tongue-in-cheek, and anyone with half a brain would know that that was the case from the context AND BECAUSE I HAVE POSTED HERE SINCE FEBRUARY OF 2004, and have been one of the most consistently vociferous posters allowing for all points of view, all backgrounds, and viewpoints FOR MORE THAN 5000 POSTS. I am outraged that there is no 'give' anymore around here but more importantly...that leads me to

2. Suppose I hadn't been purely ironical: that in fact I were a progressive liberal who believed in God as a Divine Intercessor, which I don't, but so what? How DARE anyone call into question an individual's right to post as a religious person. Does being an atheist allow for certain privileges of rank around here - that one's belief in one's own interpretation of God is not to be allowed? Are we free thinkers? Does anyone and everyone who believes in God fall into the category of Falwell? What about all the Priests, Ministers, and Rabbis, and those clergy of other religions, who believe in God the Almighty AND the inappropriateness of political conservatism as practiced by those on the Right in present-day America? Aren't they entitled to their religious beliefs in the Hallowed Halls of Democraticunderground.com? I happen to believe in higher-order entities which are far beyond our comprehension to understand. the fact that Mankind has simplified these inabilities and quantified them as "God" does not diminish my personal beliefs. If one wishes to be an atheist, or not believe that UFOs are of extraterrestrial or extra-dimensional origin, or whatever, that is your right and privilege as an individual, and I have great respect for your beliefs. Do not dare to question anyone's right to post his or her beliefs which are consistent with the mission of the website which is to further the POLITICAL objectives of the Democratic Party. Arguing that religion is the fount of all troubles in the world has nothing to do with a specific person's private beliefs and understandings of the Universe.

I am just beside myself here and am leaving for a while to run some errands and get my brain back where it belongs - I feel that the anger, the intolerance, the outrageous behavior of many members here has forced os many others to tiptoe around issues because they're afraid of the responses from the "in-crowd' here. I am unimpressed and undaunted in my need to speak out against this type of intellectually unsatisfying tripe.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Question:
Why do you care what an anonymous person on the internet thinks about something you said, or your education, parentage, moral fiber, or dietary habits?

Seriously, why?
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why do you care what I care about. Seriously...
Because when you're trying to have a dialog and people shovel shit on your psyche, you get pissed. I've spent countless hours here reading, writing, assisting people with they're dental needs, for crying out loud...and then the whole process has just exploded into a name-calling exercise of hatred, cynicism, and brutality. Maybe the Rethugs are right...maybe we don't' have what we say we have...we claim intellect, perspective, higher-order morality...I sure as hell haven't seen that lately here...
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I don't care. I'm just interested.
It fascinates me that people invest that much of themselves in a medium such as this.

I'm sure the people you've helped are grateful for your assistance. I also applaud you.

And, no, Democrats don't necessarily have an advantage in intellect, perspective, or morality. I believe we have an advantage in empathy, though. That's a big advantage, imo.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I care
but then again I'm real high on cold medicines right now.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Sorry to hear you're sick
I had a helluva cold (maybe it was the flu) a month or so back. Just really getting over it. I hope you don't have that one.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. thanks
I'm in my 6th day of pneumonia, it really sucks and I really do care :)
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. Oh, crap!
Had that once. It was enough. That's some serious sickness! Take good care of yourself.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. thanks
I almost had to be admitted last night but They sent me home with a breathing machine. Today they want to check my oxygen levels to see if I'm going in or not.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. If that is the case, why not use racial and ethnic slurs?
They are just words right? Why should someone here care if someone calls them an ---------- ?
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. Just remember..
when Atheists die and are buried,
they are all dressed up and have
no place good to go. ;)
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. And in that respect, they are not unique.
:P
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. not
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 11:43 AM by MichaelHarris
if they're buried naked. Plus, if they're naked it's give them something to play with.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. thats why I say burn me at the stake, neked even
I prolly won't even care either :-)
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. But
what if, at the very end, while tied to the burning stake naked, you realize there is an afterlife and you now find yourself at a weenie roast?
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. If it was called a weenie roast, then there sure would be some susprises there ;-)
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. so DUers
are pretty humor impaired. You just got to brush it off, all jokes don't work on all people.
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. It wasn't a 'joke'
it was a comment with English usage which apparently was too 'profound' for lazy @$%^@$%^ to read. It was actually written on a 4th grade level...but that's too much to ask for lately around here...
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. Excellent post
There does seem to be some unreasonable disdain around here for those who believe in God. That disdain sometimes turns into personal attacks. Sometimes several of them.

I am an agnostic, but I respect the right of individuals to believe whatever suits them best.

Please continue to post.

There are some incredibly good people here, but there are also the relatively few people who think they own the site or something that use personal attacks to make their point.
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:05 PM
Original message
agree with you ....
i'm also agnostic. Also don't have a problem with religious types. Except the fanatics who want to ram their so-called beliefs down my throat in the form of stupid laws.

Separation of church and state ... a good thing.
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Lobster Martini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
13. For what it's worth, I haven't seen anything inappropriate in your posts...
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 12:03 PM by Lobster Martini
Cheers. Think about something else, like why the Phillies can't get any good pitchers.

Regards,

LM.

:hi:
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Eaton, Kendrick...Yich...
I'm off to an hour of relaxation...

thanks...
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. PCIntern, it saddens me that you were treated that way.
The posts and responses are getting nastier by the day around here. Several patterns I've noticed: Quick first responses to posts that slam the poster; "tag-team" attack threads; right wing talking points.

You said it was a well-known poster, was it an infamous member? You are a valued DUer, and I enjoy reading your posts. Hopefully it will get less tedious around here.
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Very well known and generally very respected...
thanks for the thought...BTW...I didn't post for sympathy, although I'm heartened to see some, but just to let some know around here that some of us are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore.
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El Pinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. K&R
I kicked & recommended this because I found myself on the receiving end of a bunch of crap because of this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

In which I mentioned the fact that many of the worst homophobes happen to be closet bisexuals and homosexuals themselves.

The fact that it's true. I was flamed relentlessly by a group of self-appointed thought police who somehow twisted it into my blaming homophobia on gays (!) (I personally consider out gay people and repressed, jesus-freak homosexuals/bisexuals to be two very different things.)


I got so sick of it I actually asked the mods to lock the thread myself!


There should be less lockstep to shut down ideas, more tolerance and less PC, and a better sense of humor in general.


Sorry you got bruised up over a trivial comment. Not everyone here is like that, though.

:pals:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. huh, here is what the lock said. Looks like "true" may not be.
locking

This is counter-productive - an invitation to speculate on someone's sexuality based on their politics, rather than actual evidence. The implication than homophobia may indicate homosexuality is offensive.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
20. Keyboard Can Cut Like A Knife...
From one who observes here...the great thing about DU is the passion people, such as yourself, bring to this place. The downside is the passion bring to this place. Most of us have found our way here and found an oasis from the madness...where one could find some voices in the wilderness, and you could speak back to them. It's shared frustrations and hopes...different types of people from all types of experiences...all bonded with our frustration of the status quo. Since there are so many similarities, when a difference comes it its maginfied.

The Internet is one of the most intimate communication forms ever created. It lends itself to the creative, but also the abusive...it's instant nature makes it even more unique as real time response can be followed by real time emotion. People behind a keyboard will think and send first and sometimes forget that there's a real human being on the other end. Passions flow easy and little things turn into flame wars and feelings are easily hurt. I know it can be stinging, but consider this the peril of the "brave new world"...free speech means that...and sometimes it can be very cutting and offensive.

I'm far from being in the "in-crowd" here and have no interest in the personalities...why I shun the lounge. It's fine for others, I'm here to keep up with a crazy world and exchange a few shots and thoughts now and then with the few who don't have me on ignore and want to banter back. This place can't solve problems, but it can present different views of those problems and hopefully one can learn and try to see all sides of that problem/issue.

I regluarly limit my "posting time" here...thus keeps the mind focused a bit (not much in my case) and it keeps one out of too many flame wars. I'd suggest take a step back...take a DU vacation for a couple days and see the real world for a bit...then come back and play fly on the wall here for a day or two...it may give you a fresher persepctive on the good things this place can be and help recharge your passions as well.

Cheers...
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. I dont really think it ought to have left too big a scar
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
24. I had to take a short hiatus, too.
I posted a "let's come together" message that said, in essence, forget who you support now...let's get together in the general election for a Democrat. I was subsequently informed that I was stupid, puerile, and a shill. This went on and on.

I learned a two valuable lessons about progressives in particular and the internet in general:

1. Just because you self-identify as a Democrat, progressive or liberal doesn't make you a decent person just like being a Republican doesn't make you evil, but merely wrong about politics.

2. The internet is a breeding ground for some incredible pricks.


It was a valuable lesson. Once my head cleared and I came to those realizations, it made posting here fun again. So posters, if you agree with me, fine. If you don't, kiss my ass. I'm still fine.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
25. DU sucks the BIG ONE lately
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 12:22 PM by 48percenter
Nothing on here but freaks and trolls. And a few of my good friends, which do not fit in the aforementioned categories. ;)

The level of dialogue has sunk to a new low. DU is really not much fun for me anymore, outside of the Photography Group, which I love and adore.

Hang in there PC, us Philly people have to stick together. :hug:
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. Because those posts were deleted in your OP, I can't tell who
the posters were, but ever since the primaries, there are many newer DUers that kind of scare the bejeesus out of me. (oops am I allowed to say that?)

You have been a strong, wonderful voice here at DU for years and I don't blame you for being upset.

:hug:
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. The primaries have nothing to do with the attitude described by PCIntern.
Quite a while back (2005?), I was stalked by another DUer who took issue with a post I had made about Christianity. Every post in which I mentioned Christianity or "God", I got a reply by this DUer, who clearly was trying to pick an argument. The day that DU is completely taken over by atheism is when I no longer want to be associated with it.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. I do quite honestly steer clear of certain threads, and the ones that get involved with
religion are amongst those.
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. Some people are just assholes.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 12:49 PM by tmfun
I've been here since 2000 and while there have always been a few jerks here I have noticed that over the last year or so DU seems to have been invaded by a veritable plethora of rude, snarky, assholes. It seems lately that almost every post gets at least one responder who just likes to stir up shit. Sometimes I think that many are agents provocateur.

Fortunately for the rest of us, many of the assholes spend most of their time in GDP. Even more fortunate is that our fearless Skinner has gifted us with the ignore function. I highly recommend it. Without it, I would have been forced to abandon DU some time ago.

Edited to change snarky. It got changed to snaky in spell check but hey, spell check could be right too.
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. "How DARE anyone call into question an individual's right to post as a religious person."
Amen to that. :hi:
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. I am glad you posted this...
as I have also witnessed completely unwarrented attacks on DUers for no apparent reason other than to attempt to force one's belief's onto everybody or out of sheer cruelty. What ever happened to the civility and tolerance which we "liberals" supposedly advocate?

Specific to your issue I was once told by a fellow DUer that the majority of Americans do not believe in God. Now I have no facts or numbers to back my point up, but I think it is quite the opposite, I believe the vast majority of Americans DO believe in God or a higher power. But everybody has the right to their own beliefs or non-beliefs.

I have always tried to show respect to every poster on the board, but when a friend or I am attacked over nonsense, I will stand up for myself or that friend. And yes, it is a shame that many people feel that they must "tiptoe" around certain issues, because they will end up on the outside looking in. There are many IMPORTANT issues being ignored because of this.
K&R :hi:
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Faux pas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
33. AMEN!
:applause:
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
34. Just came back...
thanks to all..

and don't worry, I'll keep posting my side of things...not that my stuff is any better than anyone else's but at least it "belongs to me and is mine too."

the brass figlagee with bronze oak-leaf palm to anyone who knows the source of the phrase in quotation marks.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
35. maybe you should take a break- if you get that worked up and affected-
by the words of anonymous strangers.
people have a right to their opinions, and to express them here within the limits of the rules- even you.

if you can't handle the opinions of others, or if you feel that there's no place for them in your beautiful mind- a break might be the best thing for you.
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. There are two manners in which I could answer your post:
1. "Thank you for your input and I'll take it under advisement,." - that is the dignified response.

2. I could go after you with both barrels, blah blah blah. And on and on... I could say things of a personal nature about you relative to your other posts on DU which may or may not be correct, but believe me, if you got what I got given the post that I made originally, you would be sputtering at the very least. This is what happened to me. It was grossly out of proportion to what had been written, and I'm a little tired of this forum and its participants being abused. (If however, you have ice water in your veins, well, that's you and not I. You're lucky, I suppose.) I don't answer posts that way unless I have to. In your case I don't have to. So I didn't.


Meanwhile, let's just pretend for one moment that I am the best one to judge what I should be doing at any given instant and I think I'll hang around a while, thanks so much for your input.

:hi:
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. whatever works best for you...
but you really should learn to not let the words of anonymous strangers affect you negatively.

or at least stop whining about it.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. I've noticed a lot of people on DU who have been having thin skin syndrome!
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. The tone around here has been awful for a good long while now, which is why I generally
stay in the lounge. :(
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Actually,
I've never ventured into the Lounge. Heard that it's quite interesting...to say the least!
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Well, it's quite relaxing really. :^) You should try it sometime
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
42. Obviously, you'd be a LOSS for DU . . . however,
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 01:57 PM by defendandprotect
Re #2 . . .
Here's the difference as I see it re organized patriarchal religions ....
IF they are brought out into the public arena . . . then we can challenge and question them.
IF someone wants to keep their religious beliefs personal --- fine.
But when they become PUBLIC, they they are open to criticism.

If someone doesn't want their religious beliefs questioned or challenged, then don't bring
them onto a PUBLIC WEBSITE --- !!!

Finally, I hope that you will shake yourself out and just come back fighting . . . in the sense
of clearly stating your beliefs in DEBATE . . .


Best wishes ---

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
44. Hang in there, dude!
I know how you feel. I have found the lack of reading comprehension appalling. Of course, sometimes an internet message board doesn't really convey what is being felt and mistakes are made, I mean, there only so many smilies to express one's feelings here :). Then again, many times I can't even post on subjects without my "fan club" coming into the thread to start shit, hell, yesterday someone came back from the dead to "yell" at me (MWHAHAHAHAHA...the power of the evil gay Jew...we have no limits to our power...we will rule the world and make it FABULOUS!). It still bothers me from time to time, but I try not to let it get to me.
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Never said I was thinking of leaving...
I said...I've about had it...that means I am getting mad as hell. If I start writing as a MAD poster, it will detract from my 'message'. So of course, I won't do that...

but it's nice to know that many feel the same way and we need to state this on occasion so that the trolls, disruptors, sociopaths, and other miscreants know that we're on to them.. "Bigtime"
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
47. Locking
Please do not start a thread to continue another thread or argument from it.

Thanks.

Puglover
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