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Have you seen this, worlds deadliest shotgun, blackwater style

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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:07 AM
Original message
Have you seen this, worlds deadliest shotgun, blackwater style
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c

I see no need for this especially in mercernaries hands, home or abroad
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Don't you know a joke when you see one?
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:17 AM by ThomWV
I don't mean that the film is a sham or that the gun doesn't exist, only that the gun is a joke.

No one is ever going to carry that gun in combat, it is the providence of the comic-book crowd. First off nobody at all would be able to carry enough ammunition to make it a viable combat weapon, always a matter of much concern to grunts on the ground. As a defense weapon in a vehicle its worthless too because of its very limited range - even if they were to shoot slugs out of it. Next, look it its size and even with space-age materials consider how much it weighs - once again, ask any grunt who has ever had to carry a gun a few miles how they feel about the weight of the things. Next thing, even if it was shooting buck-shoot, OO or even larger, its range is severely limited. I would be please to stand 100 yards away and let you shoot at me all day long with that thing if I had some sort of face shield to protect my eyes, otherwise I wouldn't be much worried about it.

Shotguns are probably the best self defense weapon you can have in your home. They are also the weapon of choice if you are going to use a gun to feed yourself, but this silly boy's toy they have built is simply worthless for just about any military purpose.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I see it for what it is and thats why I thought it would be worthy of sharing the video
In all the trips into the villages in 'Nam, hundreds, my shotgun always brought along a riot gun and he would have creamed his drawers if he had something like this toy to play with. A 68 passenger bus has lots of room for not only Vietnamese but boxes of ammo too. In my recollection we never bothered with the 00 if it wasn't in close quarters to start with. This weapon in the wrong hands would be some kind of scary machine or at least it seems as it would be to me that is.

Anyways just passing this on for others to see
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. And I thank you for it
I know what you mean. I did 3 tours on the ground (central highlands) myself. I carried a Sweedish-K myself. Lots of bullets, 9mm, only 1 moving part - the bolt. It would not jam if you packed it with mud and peanut butter, was smaller than an M-1 carbine, and didn't weigh much more than a pair of .45's.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Every Army entry team has a Remington 870
But a primary purpose is for knocking on a door with great enthusiasm. Shotguns were a weapon of choice for some soldiers in South Vietnam, where they experimented with flechette ammunition that used darts instead of lead or steel shot.

But you're right, if your enemy is not at close range, you don't want to be holding a shotgun, looking at someone with a rifle.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. We had Mossberg's
they were old as an NG unit they would be issued in weather related events to mp units. They did work, well. They were converting to the 1014 when I was leaving. So after a few broken weapons may have showed up.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Would that have been a Mossberg 590?
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:17 AM by Lasher


What a coincidence, I just happen to have one here in my gun cabinet and it looks exactly like the one in this photo, including the bayonet lug. Very good for home defense.
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EmperorHasNoClothes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Lovely.
I think that guy in the video was about to have an orgasm over it. :eyes:
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
41. That was my response, too..
Guy has issues.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Can't wait to use one hunting." - Dickie "Five Military Deferments" Cheney
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:24 AM by SpiralHawk
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. "Can't wait to show it to my friend Harry Whittington", says Deadeye Dick
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. My immediate reactions were
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:28 AM by rocknation
"It's too big," and "I feel like I'm watching porn." Not bad considering I'm a complete amateur in BOTH fields!

:rofl:
rocknation
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. my six foot 160 lb frame would probably be like putty once I squeezed off a few rounds
while holding that bugger.
I know some big ole boys who could handle it well though as most of us here prolly do, while some here probably could handle it themselves. tripod mounted it would be most deadly in close quarters no doubt.
Personally I like diplomacy much better, dialog itself doesn't kill many.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. They said its gas opperated, so it wouldn't kick much
It would bounce around a good bit but it wouldn't kick all that much. Gas opperated shotguns are pretty good that way.
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lazer47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. After walking around in the "bush" for 2 or 3 days,, knee deep in water
wonder how well it would perform with grim and grit in it, can you imagine how often you have to clean that thing
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Our m16 weren't very good in that department back then either best I remember
I think I heard them say in the video that it is for the most part made of stainless so it wouldn't need a lot of cleaning and oiling but I take that with a grain of salt. Originally the m16 was so close toleranced that they would lock up on you whereas under the same conditions an ak47 would still be going. Later best I remember they loosen the m16 up a tad to help in that department.

Talk about something that would get the neighbors attention this rapid fire 12 gauge would sure do it. hell it has me and all I have done is see the video.

I feel I must include that our mission back then is the same as the kid's today is, wrong. All my Vietnam Vet friends of today think the same thing too.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. After I came home years ago I haven't had much interest in guns anymore
Shortly after coming home I admit I bought a little 22 that was a sweet little gun but after a couple days all I could see was it was reminding me of what I didn't care to see anymore so I gave it to one of my friends, he still has it and was showing it to me a while back, its still a nice rifle and it would be perfect for squirrel hunting if I still did hunt. Yep being myself hunted took all the fun out of my hunting I guess.
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lazer47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I'm the same way okie, I just don't see the need anymore to kill something
I'm to old to be trapesing around in the woods freezing my ass off just to eat "squrill meat", give me a good IHOP and breakfast anytime,,,,although I still keep a 38 and 12ga double in a locked case, I only take them out once a year to clean them,,,
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. Same here, now all I want to do is look for mushrooms and take pictures


morels and oysters are my mushrooms of choice now that I've gotten older
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. How does it use gas?
like in your car?
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. using the gas pressure to work the works rather than the recoil from the cartridge itself
right before the projectile leaves the barrel it uncovers a hole leading to a piston which in turn does the mechanical work of removing the spent shell. Some one please help with an explanation that makes more sense than mind does as I've not being paying much attention to the gun world for quite some time now and it shows.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. You were accurate
I had to do some readin' on it for a short story I'm working on.

Don't ask

But the mechanism is simple. It takes advantage of the expanding gas to push the bolt the spent cartridge out, while bringing in a fresh cartridge

What I enjoy of film like that is that it is slow mo, so I can SEE it, and use the visuals for ahem, writing, when I need that.

And it does not matter if this is a new Jackhammer (which truly never saw service, or rather extensive service) or the pistol we rarely go target shooting with
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. thanks Nadie
;-)
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Dialog itself doesn't kill many?
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 08:49 AM by Lasher
Have you been to GD-P lately?

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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. OOps,
are you kidding me even when something I'm really interested in that I post get put over there I won't go see for the fear of being bloodied just from looking.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. I opted out and my life is much happier.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 09:45 AM by Lasher
But maybe I'll have a boatload of beer today and then go back in there and tease them.

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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
15. The full auto capability doesn't add much over semi-auto -- its a very slow cycle rate
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 09:04 AM by aikoaiko
The most useful thing about this shotgun is its easy to change magazine drum.

Of course my Saiga is just as good and there are 10 round box mags and 20 round drums.

"World's Deadliest Shotgun" is just advertising. A bad guy would be just as dead from grandpa's side by side.

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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I guess what caught my eye in this was the blackwater sign early on
someone has plans for them and I hope they are not allowed to see them through, if it is it won't be America anymore.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I understand -- Blackwater benefits from being intimidating


Guns like that are meant to intimidate nonviolent folks (as well as be useful against those who are not intimidated).


You know what helps to not be intimidated -- having equal firepower. There are a lot more of us than them.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. All new to me, I guess thats what crawling under the rock done for me
http://www.saiga-12.com /

Thanks, I was totally unaware of these weapons.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
19. WANT! WANT!
Gimmee, gimmee!!

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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
23. I dunno - the magazine looks bulky and difficult to carry around
and it only holds 20 rounds so it'd be hard to take the thing very far from a source of ammunition.

What was awesome was the little 12 ga. fragmentation shells. Imagine those adapted for your 870.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. I've often thought....
that somebody should make a new tactical cartridge.

I think a 16-gauge "rimless" shotshell with a extractor croove in place of the traditional protruding rim would be good for a tactical shotgun.

By replacing the protruding rim as described, it would be much easier to load these shotshells in a box magazine. And a 16-gauge hull will still hold 8 or 9 double-ought buckshot pellets, same as standard tactical 12-gauge load.

Imagine, say, a Remington 11-87 with a 15-round detachable mag, and a soldier with a few more magazines on his belt. That's SERIOUS firepower!
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
24. Thanks. Now I have to wipe up the testosterone dripping out of my monitor.
There are some mighty sick people out there. We don't need more killing machines and that is what this is. How long till the gun nuts will be clamoring for a civilian version to bolster their masturbation fancies with.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
28. This works better...
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. That looks like it might be a kick you down then stomp you type weapon
My little 160# wouldn't be any match for that from the third squeeze on, methinks.
Beautiful gun though. I guess its the simplicity of the mechanics of weapons that attract me to them in the first place.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
31. It is a Jackhammer brought to the modern day
and the mercs will be the first ones to get this, unfortunately.

Just as they are getting new APCs
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Yes, that is what worries me most about something like that
the hands they will be put in. Is this the first time that America has actually used merc's such as blackwater?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Yes
And remember they were on Merican streets after Katrina

Good news, the Jackhammer never saw extensive service... neat toy, but never really saw extensive service. Not even with police departments.

And outside of GAMING books, you rarely hear it mentioned today.

The AA 12 will have a similar fate... I hope
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. I think I saw that episode
IIRC, they had two of those shotguns mounted to a turret on an armored vehicle with the big 32-round magazines in them. The turret also had a camera, and could be controlled by a gunner sitting inside the vehicle.

Not a bad idea, but reloading them would be a bitch. "Here, Jimmy, crawl up outside the hatch and reload the shotguns. I'll cover you...".
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
38. 300 rounds a minute.
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Tektonik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
40. Yay we get to kill more Iraqi civilians!
:scared:
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