Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

So this economy is now sucking; who do you blame it on?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:44 PM
Original message
So this economy is now sucking; who do you blame it on?
Bush, Obama, McCain, Clinton? I'd like to know, because I've read so many different, diverging opinions. Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bilderbergers.
:tinfoilhat:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BB1 Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
34. We have a winner!
The famous (or notorious) meeting in Hotel Bilderberg, in Oosterbeek, The Netherlands, laid down the fundaments for the current global political and socio-economic situation.
If anyone is to blame, it's most likely them for it to turn out this way.
On the other hand, if they had not taken control, who would have? For better or worse?

And finally: Who controls the Bilderbergers? Are those people being controlled, blackmailed or just manipulated? Or are they as evil as we think they are? Or are they not evil at all; we're just dead wrong on that one?

Shoot!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Reverend Wright!!
Killing investor confidence with his anti-American Marxist racism. Damn you, pastor, damn you!!

Sorry, real answer: Republican fiscal policy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Come on, you know Hagee and Wright...
are in this together. (Try to picture that.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Ewwww
I don't wanna picture that.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. bush says he inherited it, nothing he could do about it
it must be the clenis's fault

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Reagan
He was the screwball who got the ball rolling on permanent tax cuts for the rich (which were never enough for them), deregulation, privatization, and every other damned thing that allowed financial thieves to set up shop. He also created an unfriendly country for unions, which meant there was no counterbalance to the runaway greed at the top.

Clinton simply did nothing to counteract it.

Stupid is simply there at the inevitable outcome of it.

GOP economic policy hasn't changed since Harding, Coolidge and Hoover set up the Great Depression.

If we let them back in, they'll just do it all over again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
31. I agree... Reagan set us on this path, and Clinton didn't correct it
Clinton didn't stop the so-called 'War on Drugs', which paved the way for the 'War on Terror', and, as you say, he left in place much of Reagan's lousy fiscal policy as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BluWtrLynn Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #31
46. Thats my take too.
I would add that the DLC has continued to push for deregulation of the banking industry and helped push jobs overseas since Clinton left office. Anyone closely associated with them is "buys a piece of this".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ronald Reagan and David Stockman.
See, I hold grudges for a long time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. HA! You clown, and nice to see you! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yo.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The high gas prices are sucking the economy dry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sorry, but this is totally a Bushwack... There is no other source for this demise...
Edited on Fri Mar-14-08 11:54 PM by LakeSamish706
If it weren't for the Iraq war we would have more than enough resources to counter this problem...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Don't be sorry, I agree with you. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
49. This problem, and others...
like health care, education and infrastructure - to name a few.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. I blame myself...
:cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. My take.

It's neither Senator Clinton nor Senator Obama, they have not had any individual control over anything, therefore it's not McCain either.

It's not Bush, since most of the underlying problems have been coming for a while. But he sure hasn't helped things. He could have spurred national investment in industries that would put the United States at the forefront of new markets. This would increase demand of our knowledge, labor and services, increasing the value of the dollar.

I really put a lot of the blame on the belief that the government has had for 20+ years, that you can spend more than you earn. That belief system trickled to citizens, who spend more than they earn.

People don't *need* 10 pair of shoes. People don't *need* a new car every 2-5 years. And people don't *need* to charge a pizza, refinance the credit card debt into a new 30 year mortgage and pay for it until they're in their 60's.


I guess I could blame Reagan. For dozens of things that came out of his administration.

I could go to Nixon for his support of the creation of HMOs and lack of movement toward a national single payer system. (therefore, every administration since as well)

The United States is highly competitive in many things. We're the best at many jobs as well. But we haven't invested locally or nationally on the types of projects that will put us at the top in new industries as the old ones become obsolete.

What good is being the best buggy whip manufacturer when we're going to see flying cars soon enough?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drmeow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. Reagan
and the start of deregulation. The attack on unions. Free trade agreements. Privatizing.

Reagan started poking holes in the foundation, Clinton and the Republican Congress didn't really help much (NAFTA), and Bush II has been violently mugging it for 7 years.

I think the economy could have been saved if a prudent individual had become president. Instead we got a two-bit thug and his band of thieves and they stole what was left.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ronald Reagan and Thomas Friedman
and every other asshole who pushed for deregulation and union-busting. I think that would cover basically every politician and laissez faire economist for the past three decades.

And what was the name of that a-hole who started buying up the airlines and selling them off in bits -- Icahn? Those corporate *raiders* who would buy up companies and literally sell off bits and raid pension funds to fill their own pockets?

I personally think the country would be well rid of the entire Republican Party. And ANY democrat that allowed the bankruptcy laws to be changed (yes, that means Joe Biden, too). There have been MANY on both sides that have done severe damage to the social safety net of the New Deal. They should be spotlighted and tossed out on their furry little behinds. With NO pensions or health care. Take away from US, don't expect to walk away with a freaking dime. :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
17. Ya really want to know?
I, don't quote me on this, blame the economy on the destruction of the WTC. Call me silly, oh yeah and all that monkey business in 2000/2001. The executive branch of the USA is to blame largely and Congress gets a large portion. Really the real people to blame are the people who own the politicians in both branches, not convinced the Judicial is in on it, well Tony is. But we all know that.

Blame, hmm, Dick Cheney MUST get creds for a lot of this, Ken Lay (wherever he may be), Kellogg Brown and Root, GE, the MIC, the MAN and anyone left in the Establishment that I missed (too many to list). A special one to Enron and Blackwater.

The gutting of the federal infrastructure (which I have been talking about for years now) and the ever rising cost of, oh, what is that thing,

that thing,

hmmm

lemme see...

IRAQ!

Trillions ya know...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
18. Deregulation + Greed = Disaster. NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
47. plus massive deficit spending on
non-critical infrastructure. The sad thing is the economy is working exactly how Bushco wanted it to work. It's almost like good economies can't be produced by their economic beliefs. Yet all I ever hear is rethugs are GOOD for the economy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
19. The PNAC, the DLC , DINO's and BlueDogs and all the warmongers. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Don't forget that Grand Old Party.
They deserve honors for crapping out lowdown rats like, Newt and his Contract With America(tm). Still, I like elephants and think the GOP hold the image hostage, they are not animals to be admired. Elephants are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. I equate PNAC with GOP.
Maybe I'm mixing up the totally fucked up batshit crazies with just the totally fucked up crazies? :P

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
20. Reagan raised SS & payroll taxes from 6.25% to 15.3%.... a big hit on the working and middle classes
on the middle class, & he changed from progressive taxation to regressive taxation.

A War on the Middle Class generally attacks the 3 pillars holding up the middle class. Progressive taxes, labor & education. Again I look to Thom Hartman: Jefferson said, in an 1824 letter: "This degree of education would ... give us a body of yeomanry, too, of substantial information, well prepared to become a firm and steady support to the government." Jefferson started the University of Virginia with the intent to provide the yeomanry with a free education so as to be prepared to take part in the Government, the citizen legislators if you will.

The current war on the middle class started with less progressivity in tax rates, then union busting. More recently, tax breaks for corporations to move our jobs overseas, increasing illegal immigrantion to enlarge the labor pool, which drives wages down.

Enter Ronald Reagan and the start of full spectrum warfare on the middle class. The opening salvo, the PATCO strike. Busting the Air Traffic Controllers union was the start of a multi front military style operation to drive wages down for all Americans. Then we were told that Social Security was going broke, this represents the opening of a second front of the War on the Middle Class that resulted in the doubling of payroll taxes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
45. Great post! Most informative. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. Thank you, read the whole diary here, with supporting links to US Treasuty dept, and great charts
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. I'd love to see your post as an OP, this is very good information.
Thanks for the link to your diary, it would be great for more people to see it.

sw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
22. Its your fault and you know it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
23. Keeping up with the Joneses
and out of control trade/budget deficits. In that order.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
24. Crocs. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. That footwear is pathetic. Every landfill in the country is terrified of an influx.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 12:26 AM by MichiganVote
of people in need of a sizing. Pretty soon they'll have to have worker rights or want to become citizens. Will we respect the gaudy pink ones over the lime bright citrus fashion statement?

Civil war. No doubt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. LOL! I hate them, too! But they
make feet sweat. Hell, my Reefs make my feet sweat, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Next thing you know...each campaign will claim the other one wears them.
And no, I'd sooner die than wear that shit on my feet. Sorry for the croc lovers.

As Simon says, "Sorry, not good enough"....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Probably but they stole that fashion statement from Kucinich!
:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
28. Such changes come in waves,
naturally.

Fact that this has worsened and worsened and worsened, with no real help from govt, is bush's fault.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
32. Deregulation, militarism and corporatism...
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 03:20 AM by BushDespiser12
All of our past presidents are culpable. Some more-so than others.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. Bingo. I'd also add disaster capitalism, the culture of consumerism,
and privatization to that list. All of these elements have been pushed by the Republicans and the DLC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
33. I blame it on CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATISM! It's all in their
plan to keep the people desperate, hungry, destitute, and willing to work cheap or starve!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mad Vulcan Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
35. Economy
I blame every politician they can't agree on anything everyone wants to be right and not work for America. While the economy is not nearly as bad as it was during the late 70s we have been through this before, We will go through it again. It is like a bad horror movie that keeps returning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
36. The cumulative effect of 20 years of Republicans having free reign,
thanks partly to Bill Clinton and the Democrats being too chicken-hearted or corrupt to

1) Stop Reagan from enacting his legislation, even when they had a majority in both houses in the early years (was I ever bashing my head against the wall in 1981-83 when the Dems not only gave Reagan a free pass but the Congresscritters who would become the founding members of the DLC were actually cheerleading for him)

2) Playing Tony Blair and not reversing any of the Reagan and Bush initiatives, even in 1992-94 when they controlled everything

3) Voted for Reagan/Bush initiatives on the theory that "They're going to win anyway" instead of taking a principled stand.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dembotoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
37. the disconnect of the haves from the have nots
When it goes from "us" to "them" is becomes easy to cut their wages,
ship out their jobs, don't fund their pensions, don't support their mass transit.

911 gave bush a united country-at least for a while

and that evil stupid bastard f----d it up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
38. Uh-hello? Who's been spending trillions on an illegal oil war with money borrowed from China?
I don't even think Reagan fucked up THAT bad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
El Pinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
39. ReaganBushClintonBushGreenspan and deregulators in general...
All the people who pushed NAFTA & low taxes on the rich & no safety nets & offshoring as the panacea to our economy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
40. Alan Greenspan should get some blame.
He had warning after warning about the growing problem of subprime loans and chose to do nothing. He even PRAISED adjustable rate mortgages back in 2004.

Same with the Bush Treasury Dept. They actually went to court to block individual states from passing laws against predatory lending.

Congress too shares in the blame for not doing more to rein in predatory lenders. Of course, Bush would most likely have vetoed any such bill as he is in the pocket of the financial services industry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
41. It can't all be laid at the door of one person, or one party.
Bill Clinton, for ushering in NAFTA and the corporate-friendly DLC.

Bush, obviously, for bankrupting the nation while he plays would-be emperor.

Voters, for voting against the interests of labor and domestic programs. Whether or not the votes go to Rs or Ds, as long as they are centrist/corporate/3rd way people, it can be laid at the feet of voters.

Consumers, for wasting resources buying junk they don't need and living beyond their means on credit.


The corporate power holders, who are helping to engineer the creating of large pools of cheap labor and to grow the class divide.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
42. Impeachment is "OFF THE TABLE"
:shrug: Everyone knows and has known how Republicans treat the American economy. This economic meltdown is not a surprise I can assure you, yet nothing has been done about it..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
43. Why would you think that any one of those people was responsible for it?
Bush, maybe - but the rest of them? Obama hasn't been in Government long enough to have much of any effect on anything, and Hillary is just one step ahead of him on that one. McCain has been a toad to the facist right since the day he hit the Senate but he's never been a great standout. I would't blame the economy on him.

You might want to go back to Nixon for a good start. Then there was Volker, who destroyed inflation and Jimmy Carter's Presidency in one fell swoop. You want to find the source of the problem you need take but one more step, Reagan. Just about everything you can find wrong with this country today can be traced directly back to Reagan and his Administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
48. Capitalists

Cycles are part and parcel of capitalism. It affects their lives not one whit, and they couldn't give a damn if we suck wind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
50.  I focus the blame on Reagan , at least where it became evident
Since his term we were plunged into this corporatism ideal .

This is the time when de-regulation came along and was the boom of the box stores and death of the independent .

I do also blame the consumer for their blindness that allowed this abomination to spiral out of control .

Now the corporations have the power grab and own it all as well as control it all .

This was like the un-seen cancer that now has become the disease and still people don't see this .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
51. The Republican Party is 100% guilty
It's an entirely criminal, treasonous organization devoted to plundering the treasury and eroding our industrial base.
It's a problem that's long over due for a solution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
52. the american people.
we sold our souls awhile back for cheap crap made by slave labor in china...and what goes around, comes around- as a society, we have A LOT of penance to pay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Aug 20th 2014, 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC