Wages are low because of Illegal Immigrants

[Indenturedebtor]

I hear this meme all the time. I certainly agree that by the virtue of simple labor market dynamics (in terms of available labor pool), and of course by low expectations and desperation having a bunch of legal or illegal immigrants can drive wages down to an extent.

But it REALLY pisses me off to see the pukes blame the wage stagnation that's been going on since the 70's on immigrants! Total and utter bullshit! How do you explain the fact that white collar jobs also have stagnating wages? How many trained and certified Honda Auto Mechanics are running across the border to make American poverty wages?

I mean seriously. This whole concept is not completel without merit... I hate to say it but again labor market dynamics do play a factor. But I'm damn sick and tired of people blaming everything on terrists and immigrants.

Facsist pigs! :mad:

[PDJane]

1. That is one of the reasons

I'm in favour of a kind of socialism. The top tier will NOT keep the good of the commons at heart without a government to ensure that they do.

Complete capitalism, the so-called "Washington consensus" is a failure at a fair division of the spoils.

[hay rick]

4. mixed economy here

I tell people that I'm a real radical- I believe in a mixed economy. Some functions are better left to government and many are better left to a private market system. Most "free" markets require some regulation to operate at peak efficiency or for the greatest collective good. I do not believe in a final answer- I believe in constant trial and error. As technology advances and other circumstances change, adjustments need to be made. The proper mix will change constantly. This is a never-ending process.

The United States is very deep into the error phase of trial and error. To get the benefit of any empirical system, you have to study your results and adjust your methods accordingly. Currently not happening.

The obvious red flag in our economy is the rapid separation of the fortunes of the top 1% vs. everyone else. Our society claims to believe in material progress but currently provides a stagnant or declining standard of living for the majority of its members. This process needs to be reversed (not stopped, reversed) and will surely require a major upheaval. The current trend is for middle class democracy to be replaced by an almost feudal plutocracy.

[Mountainman]

2. By scapegoating the illegal immigrants you permit the real evil to take all the spoils while

you fight against someone who could be your ally against corporatism.

[demosincebirth]

12. Well said.

[againes654]

3. Spin spin spin

Keep the focus off the real problem, while also keeping Americans scared.

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. The real threat is those 6 year old chinese kids in China and Honduras

working in those factories owned by multinational companies, just think of the jobs they are taking away

[AlphaCentauri]

6. when CEO is making millions a year and the blue collar employees only have 80% healtcare coverage

something is wrong in that picture then blame the immigrants

[varelse]

7. Wages are low because of

GREED

Sadly, this "GREED is RIGHTEOUS" philosophy would seem to be one of the founding principles of the "new world order" :(

Or maybe it's "never give a sucker an even break"?

I forget the details, but the fundamentals remain the same.

[Warpy]

8. Wages in some industries are low because of them

usually low paid work anyway that now won't support an American living like an American in safe housing and with nutritious food.

Some industries are construction, meat packing and processing, clothing production, skilled and unskilled agricultural work, and food processing.

Remember the chicken processor in Georgia who found his entire workforce of illegals rounded up and deported? He had to raise his wages a buck an hour and got plenty of Americans to apply for his jobs.

We really need the laws against scumbucket employers who exploit illegals at substandard wages enforced. First offense should be a fine. Second should be prison.

[xchrom]

9. you hit the historical nail on the head -- the 70s.

people should pay close attention to those time lines -- nixon opened china, the oil embargo, the first big wave of the japanese imports, etc

[whistle]

10. U.S. wages are low because of Vulture Capitalism....

<snip>
The Wall Street-Treasury Complex as
Counterpart to the Military-Industrial Complex

By Norman D. Livergood

Capitalism is based on the private ownership of the means of production--the farms, factories and service industries. Capitalists make profits on their investments, instead of selling their labor power like the working class. The United States at present is primarily a capitalist economy, though some means of production are publicly owned.
A nation with a capitalist economy can, under the proper leadership, facilitate democratic freedoms and create a high standard of living. However, with the kind of leadership the U.S. has suffered under for several decades, capitalism becomes a tyranny in which the moneyed class loots the nation, while the working class suffers lower wages, higher prices, decreased constitutional liberties, and chronic unemployment. This latter kind of exploitative economy is most accurately called "vulture capitalism," and we are seeing it now in full view with the fascistic tactics of the Bush administration.


The U.S. is a "consumer society" in which workers must buy and sell to live. Every part of life becomes a commodity, something to be bought and sold, whether it is a computer, the latest automobile, sporting or technological skills, sex, or our ability to work. In essence, capitalism is "generalised commodity production," the transforming of all life into a "thing," something to be owned or traded.

Vulture capitalists call this commoditization of human life the "free-market-system" and force it on nations throughout the world. When this "system" fails, the vulture capitalists send in their carefully-selected Harvard economists to see that the nation's financial ruin is complete. In 2001, Argentina was the last in a long list of nations which have fallen prey to the ravages of vulture capitalism: currency-manipulation, asset-stripping, and factories and products sold at pennies on the dollar.

<MORE>

http://www.hermes-press.com/vulture.htm

[Booster]

11. Bush is trying his damndest to get the dollar equal to the peso.

When that happens, they'll stop coming across the border. Won't be worth the trip.

[B Calm]

13. The larger the labor supply, the cheaper it is. The more desperately

you need a job, the cheaper you'll work, and the more power those "corporate lords" have over you. It's called CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATISM! Google cheap labor conservative!

[Indenturedebtor]

14. Let me just say that I think I agree with all of you

And thank you for replying. I don't know that I've ever been able to say that about an entire thread hah. I posted this because of something that a "moderate" said to me the other day, and the fact that I could neither get it out of my head nor articulately and quickly argue against this crap.

Lend me your ears and your tinfoil hats, but really I think that the NAFTA and other trade agreement BS were designed to bust up unions and wage growth permanently. And the porous borders and failing economy were designed to give us something to blame while they pillage us more. I work in the business world. I know first hand how ruthless and heartless these people are. They are admittedly CRUEL to anyone that stands in the way of their will and/or profits. Animals, truly and literally. They sue people just because they can. Really.

Vicious monsters.